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Halo 4 dropped stasis gun to make the game less sci-fi
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Night_Trekker
Member
Clearly, the IP is in good hands.
EDIT: This is so weird... if Halo is anything, it's scifi. (Or scifi-flavored fantasy, a la Star Wars.) And since when is scifi in freaking Halo off-putting to players?
Even if these people were horribly stereotypical CoD-playing focus group bros, how in the world had none of them played Halo?
EDIT: This is so weird... if Halo is anything, it's scifi. (Or scifi-flavored fantasy, a la Star Wars.) And since when is scifi in freaking Halo off-putting to players?
Even if these people were horribly stereotypical CoD-playing focus group bros, how in the world had none of them played Halo?
well, that's what developers usually do to a)keep the franchise from stagnating and becoming too niche b)making sure it's easy for new players to jump in.
The trick is to strike the right balance and almost nobody gets it right.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
instead they...
brought back the BR, added the light rifle, added another shotgun, another automatic rifle, and brought back the mauler in the form of the bolt shot.
they bloated the weapon selection with pre existing concepts so they could sell you more things in multiplayer, and instead cut a bunch of the interesting and unique concepts that could've made a difference in the actual games development. (wheres the grenade launcher, the beam rifle?)
brought back the BR, added the light rifle, added another shotgun, another automatic rifle, and brought back the mauler in the form of the bolt shot.
they bloated the weapon selection with pre existing concepts so they could sell you more things in multiplayer, and instead cut a bunch of the interesting and unique concepts that could've made a difference in the actual games development. (wheres the grenade launcher, the beam rifle?)
The only thing Payton's said about it is it was very different from what Halo 4 ended up as, which could be good or very bad. I think most of what I consider the mistakes of H4 are obvious in retrospect, but not when those decisions were made. Though I still find it odd that they continued off the multiplayer in Reach when the core Halo fans were saying that was the worst multi of the series. I also felt they didn't really understand why COD has killstreaks and how they're supposed to function, while not changing enough of the core elements of multi to make it all work as a more coherent whole. Instead it just feels random.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Yeah, I meant (I feel like) they used solely newcomers to the franchise.
The balance between familiar and refreshing is definitely a hard chord to strike.
For what it's worth, I think 343 tried to be "Halo" while still being themselves and executing their own vision... but I think focus testing (maybe not in this specific instance, but the fingerprints are all over this hot mess) and maybe pressure from on high played more of a role in Halo 4's development than I would like. I would be interested to see what Halo 5 does, but after the post mortem was a lot of backpatting and doubling down on the features that drove me away from the series in a matter of hours, I think I'll watch from afar. Definitely not picking anything up on launch day (which would be a first for me with Halo) and I'm definitely not picking up any new hardware to try it. After beating the game and playing a weekend of multiplayer, I was ready to call my time on 343's vision of Halo over and done with. But that doesn't mean I won't be watching for the new trilogy's rocky start to be redeemed.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I still dont know why the light rifle has ammunition that changes, or how the bolt shot works.
Night_Trekker
Member
I think the best I've ever seen that done is with Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and it's done astonishingly well.
I mean, I was dead set against the game since it came from a totally new dev team. And, somehow, they did it. That success reminded me just how rare that is.
hm, any source on that? is it from this very presentation?
if true than it's ridiculous and should be detested no matter how good their intentions were.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yeah, it'd be nice to see, but I won't gamble on it with my own money anymore.
same here...
Phonomezer
Banned
Kill focus groups, they're killing the industry.
Who the fuck are they picking to test their games?
Who the fuck are they picking to test their games?
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
Couldn't have said it better myself.
These weapons don't respond with players because they *gasp* suck.
Alien weapons in the Halo series have always been hit or miss. Just so happens in the case of Halo 4 they're almost all misses with the exception of the Beam Rifle and some of the heavy weapons.
I was ready to whoop Forerunner ass too...
FunkyMunkey
Banned
No, it's completely my assumption and likely inaccurate. But to me, it just seems the game was designed around the ADHD crowd of gamers, and ones who barely play Halo. I can't imagine someone who has been playing Halo(multiplayer) since Halo 1, test playing the game and going "nearly no power weapons on map? random weapons drops for everyone? so every gametype is essentially fiesta? awesome!".
It seems antithetical to the fun, unique properties(at least at it's core) that propelled the franchise to popularity originally.
OdysseusVA
Banned
The same people Insomniac is using
les papillons sexuels
Banned
most of the time it's 14-20 year olds. A lot of what i expect people get from these focus groups are responses like.
"i like this but i think it should be more like my favorite game X"
"i dont understand why this isn't more like game X"
"game X has this"
and as a result you end up with unfocused games because the marketing and design teams are at an odds.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Bungie had "non-gamer soccer moms" play test Halo 2.
City of Dis
Member
I don't think anything in Halo 4 struck me as anything more than gallingly sentimental. The writing, dialogue, voice acting, direction, and just about everything else was absolutely atrocious.
I know video game stories and storytelling are normally subpar at best, but my God, they really missed the mark. Really soured the series for me, even more than the uninspiring campaign.
actually this is a very good example. It dropped a lot of unpolished jank (I mean unpolished jank in a good sense regarding the original Deus Ex) and unbalanced mechanics taking some freedom with it too but it made the overall experience much more solid and well-designed with its heart still pure.
SpartanN92
Banned
Real Forerunner Prometheans. Not the sub par human ones.
Anybody who knows the Halo universe knows that the Prometheans (Forerunners) were the most bad ass incredible warriors in the galaxy. I really hope we get to fight them one day.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
well... except pre array humans who managed to defeat the flood while fighting the forerunner.
actually I personally think it's a very good practice. You may not adhere to EVERYTHING "soccer moms" say but usually non-gamers can make you see some glaring flaws which longtime gamers just can't spot.
Really? The only thing I remember about the end of Halo 4 is that the final boss was a QTE.
Oh, and the very last scene is the 'Tinkerbell gets huge' scene from Hook.
That's just cause Frankie has a thing for them...
Beam rifle is in halo 4, but yea I miss the GL. (Also guessing you meant the focus rifle)
les papillons sexuels
Banned
my bad, i did mean the focus rifle. Either way, they removed unique weapons to introduce weapons that were fundementally the same. The binary rifle, the promethean cannon thing, lr, storm rifle, scatter shot, supressor, these are just small variations on existing weapons, why bother when there's already more then enough of them, many of which were already balanced for the sandbox. Bungie realized that the weapon selection in halo 3 was getting to be pretty bloated and trimmed it down to almost nothing for odst, and slowly built it back up for reach.
There's nothing inherently wrong with Forerunner weapons that weren't as sci-fi as they might have been, it was just a missed opportunity for something cool. As long as they're balanced, they don't break the game.
What broke the game was that if anyone at 343 had the foggiest notion of map control and balance, then they weren't in a position influential enough to make an impact on the finished product. I find it hard to be civil or criticize constructively when the leads at 343 demonstrate to this day that they cared more about newbies getting their hands on a rocket launcher than making a balanced game that would breed online longevity.
StarCraft II has one of the biggest skill gaps in gaming, and is enormously popular. It functions because it has a functional ranking system. Every effort was made by 343 to tamp the skill gap paper-thin instead of making a fair game that would incentivize new players to get better.
What broke the game was that if anyone at 343 had the foggiest notion of map control and balance, then they weren't in a position influential enough to make an impact on the finished product. I find it hard to be civil or criticize constructively when the leads at 343 demonstrate to this day that they cared more about newbies getting their hands on a rocket launcher than making a balanced game that would breed online longevity.
StarCraft II has one of the biggest skill gaps in gaming, and is enormously popular. It functions because it has a functional ranking system. Every effort was made by 343 to tamp the skill gap paper-thin instead of making a fair game that would incentivize new players to get better.
Net_Wrecker
Member
This is probably true. I sure as hell wouldn't have noticed all that excess sci-fi.
Tone that junk down, 343. What is this, a Star War?
Synth_floyd
Banned
343 sucks. They're owned by Microsoft who naturally wants them to go as safe as possible so they can keep raking in the dough. Can't wait for Destiny from Bungie, a company that makes games first and money second.
Night_Trekker
Member
This is a brilliant question.
Rickenslacker
Banned
That sounds like a shame, one of the weapons that resonated with me most when I played Halo CE for the very first time was the Needler. Sure, it ended up being a joke of a weapon but it was damn fun to use, at least in campaign; needles with a slight homing feature that latch onto enemies and explode in a joyous purple mist once you tag enough.
It seems like a huge missed opportunity. Of course a reskinned shotgun is going to be easily accessible and understood and get more use in testing because of it, but having unique weaponry that may or may not have an evolution of use with the userbase after a time are way better than the ones that end up being generic additions for the sake of instant understanding.
It seems like a huge missed opportunity. Of course a reskinned shotgun is going to be easily accessible and understood and get more use in testing because of it, but having unique weaponry that may or may not have an evolution of use with the userbase after a time are way better than the ones that end up being generic additions for the sake of instant understanding.
SpartanN92
Banned
They didn't really defeat the flood. The flood simply stopped infecting them, however your point isn't invalid.
SpartanN92
Banned
Well maybe you should replay the game then because you seem to have forgotten the most important part of the game -_-
I bet a lot of people would agree with you. I think the problem is it's hard to create a functionally new weapon, but 343 couldn't even come up with one. That's just sad.
It's funny, I had high hopes for Halo 4 and they ended up running completely contrary to everything I hoped for.
Where I wanted a huge, haunting, ODST-style hub world you carefully cross-crossed while completing missions, they went for an even more linear experience. Where I wanted Unlockables to be something you found while playing the game, they went with good old fashioned bar filling. Where I hoped for a diverse pool of enemies both natural and mechanical, large and small they went for the same old Covenant and only three kinds of Prometheans.
Where I imagined a tight, streamlined weapon sandbox, they just threw everything and the kitchen sink in there. Where I wanted a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none default weapon (the ODST SMG with all the trimmings), they just chucked the same old bullet hose in again. Where I saw armor abilities tied exclusively to specific weapons (i.e. no more Camo + Snipe) they just threw in more broken AAs like Promethean Vision. Where I imagined every weapon would have a unique function within the sandbox, they just slapped duplicate weapons in with no real explanation.
Looking over that old post, I don't think Halo 4 could have been further from my expectations without completely stripping away all of the Sci-Fi elements... which is ironic because that sounds like what spawned this thread.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
I worked on some licensed Hklo 4 product for a client. The client told me that when he met with 343 they were very confident in Halo 4's success, so much so that the wanted it to be a "Cultural touchstone" Cross media franchise like Star wars, Harry Potter or Lord of the rings.
We both looked at each other with the "what are they smoking?" look.
We both looked at each other with the "what are they smoking?" look.
Night_Trekker
Member
Gaming has made me come to hate the term "relatable". At this point, it's essentially synonymous with "devoid of imagination". If something lies outside of the personal experience of a young white male living in 2013, there are good odds that it'll get the axe because "the target audience can't relate to it". Sci-fi weaponry? Unrelatable. Nevermind the fact that it's a science fiction game. Get rid of that shit. Female protagonists? Unrelatable. Minority protagonists? Unrelatable. It's ridiculous.
Apparently they decided that becoming a "cultural touchstone" was going to be all about chasing CoD sales numbers despite being only on one platform, and not having to actually demonstrate game design competence. It was all about the bigger cross-media picture with Halo 4.
More time and attention was dumped into making multiplayer fictional canon in an attempt to "synergize the game universe" or something than was devoted to making sure that people couldn't smurf multiplayer by staying on one corner of the map and getting an infinite supply of power weapons at their feet.
SpartanN92
Banned
Halo very much has that kind of potential. If they get a movie....OMG the possibilities of a Halo movie.
Night_Trekker
Member
And we can expect more--not less--of this in the future as budgets go up.
I've never been so glad the indie gaming scene is booming.
