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Halo 5 beta clips leak (sprint, ADS is *not* COD-style) (more clips and info added)

D

DATABASE DATABASE

Member
Welp, that's not what I wanted to see in Halo.

The iron sight appears to be just a new visual representation of the scope as the reticle doesn't change when aiming down the sights. So there's some hope that it's not "true" ADS. But that exaggerated sprinting animation is just... no. Halo 4's sprinting animation was good. And I'm not liking the new energy sword.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Teknoman said:
The vast majority of games that have ADS: You cant hit anything within a certain distance without aiming down the sights, even if they are relatively close, unless its a shotgun.

Also it usually slows down your movement rate alot, making most firefights "stand and shoots".
Click to expand...

Neither of these things are shown in this video clip. There is a chance for the slower movement speed, but that could just be the player compensating for the the zoom as well.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
WrenchNinja said:
SGL9uQx.png


why didn't you say this here
Click to expand...

lol
 
Vire

Vire

Member
iMax said:
I'm yet to see valid reasoning for this other than i) "I don't like it", or ii) "it's not Halo".
Click to expand...

Because it reduces the skill gap and Halo has always been a game that requires much more skill than Call of Duty.
 
arhra

arhra

Member
The big question for me, is not whether ADS is in or not, but whether hipfire suffers accuracy penalties in comparison, and whether run-and-gun is penalized by movement penalties.

The BR (and pistol in CE) were always effectively ADS weapons thanks to the scopes, but importantly, they were equally accurate when hipfired, and there aren't any movement penalties.
 
F

farisr

Member
Krakn3Dfx said:
Believe in Phil Spencer.
OycH5wo.jpg
Click to expand...

haha.

Speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if originally, only Halo 2 Anniversary was planned for this year. But 343i decided that they had enough of this hybrid, trying to please old AND new audiences with the multiplayer (and not succeeding in both, Halo 4), and wanted to have free reign on making changes to the MP formula for Halo. So they had to release something that would please the old fans and dampen the impact of any big changes they made.

You can see that happening in this thread actually, people just going "oh well, at least we have MCC"
 
B

BigDug13

Member
DNAbro said:
343 just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Halo fan culture (I'm an expert), but no sprinting and lack of ADS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in CoD where you can become successful by being a camper. If you camp in Halo, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the xbox public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Halo 5 for xbox one, nor will they purchase the Master Chief Collection. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but 343 has alienated an entire market with this move.

343, publicly apologize and cancel sprinting and ADS for Halo 5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

More accurate/believable than the original Japanese culture version for sure. :p
 
C

CONAN

Member
I think they want to taste the water with this leak. If so they've got their answer.


I don't see it that bad. I don't want it thou.
 
B

BokehKing

Banned
MarauderShields said:
All you need to do is look at Halo 4s population to know that CODifying Halo doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Or.... Maybe they could have not released the game a week before black ops 2 and gave that game a chance to breathe! Halo 5 is going up against a Treyarch COD, is history going to repeat itself or will 343 be smart and release the game in late November or early September
 
O

oti

Banned
DNAbro said:
343 just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Halo fan culture (I'm an expert), but no sprinting and lack of ADS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in CoD where you can become successful by being a camper. If you camp in Halo, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the xbox public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Halo 5 for xbox one, nor will they purchase the Master Chief Collection. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but 343 has alienated an entire market with this move.

343, publicly apologize and cancel sprinting and ADS for Halo 5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

So this now has become one of those threads.
I get the joke mind you.
 
S

Sou Da

Member
DNAbro said:
343 just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Halo fan culture (I'm an expert), but no sprinting and lack of ADS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in CoD where you can become successful by being a camper. If you camp in Halo, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the xbox public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Halo 5 for xbox one, nor will they purchase the Master Chief Collection. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but 343 has alienated an entire market with this move.

343, publicly apologize and cancel sprinting and ADS for Halo 5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...
I was waiting for this, thank you.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Is it possible that ADS just operates the same way that Zoom did in Halo 1-4? E.g. you click the right stick with no lock on?

It may just be a purely cosmetic difference. If so, no harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. If not... oh boy. It's a very bad move.

Sprint doesn't really bother me as much. I thought it worked okay in previous Halo games. I'm not sure why people have an issue with it.
 
I

InsuRn

Member
Amir0x said:
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.
Click to expand...

I'm not a Halo fan, but you totally nailed most problems with today's games. I really miss the old Unreal Tournament/Quake III Arena style of fast gameplay :(
 
S

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
WrenchNinja said:
SGL9uQx.png


why didn't you say this here
Click to expand...

some people...

if it is what it seems to be, I am pretty sad about it. Of course I'll wait and try the beta, but ADS in a halo game would make NO sense if you think about the lore, the world..

Amir0x said:
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.
Click to expand...


I want to hug you.
 
I

iMax

Member
Teknoman said:
The vast majority of games that have ADS: You cant hit anything within a certain distance without aiming down the sights, even if they are relatively close, unless its a shotgun.

Also it usually slows down your movement rate alot, making most firefights "stand and shoots".
Click to expand...

Now for these reasons, there are clear differences in gameplay from other Halo games, for sure. I think ADS often lends itself to games of a larger size and scope and often favours distance combat over close-quarters.

So for those scenarios, I think it'd certainly bring an improvement to Halo. The question is how to balance this properly for arena environments in a complementary way.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
devilsadvocat said:
Or.... Maybe they could have not released the game a week before black ops 2 and gave that game a chance to breathe! Halo 5 is going up against a Treyarch COD, is history going to repeat itself or will 343 be smart and release the game in late November or early September
Click to expand...
Other Halo titles, even Reach survived post CoD launches and DLC usually boosted players, 4 just stayed dead.
 
S

Solid Samus

Banned
iMax said:
Insightful.
Click to expand...

well fine, here's two decent explainations

one

two

to put it shortly, there's a flow to Halo combat encounters enabled by pretty much even capabilities, a long health bar, and focus on strafing and movement during encounters

Traditional ADS and sprinting change movement and shooting up to such a degree that people are understandably worried the game would lose its arena shooter roots in favor of chasing that cod money and feel. It's hard not to see why people could be worried and your position of 'it could be an evolution because, y'know, it's different!' doesn't really make sense to me because it doesn't put ADS in the context of Halo gameplay.
 
R

RoKKeR

Member
Amir0x said:
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.
Click to expand...
This is the bottom line. Good writeup Amirox
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Amir0x said:
A GUIDE TO WHY PEOPLE ARE ANNOYED FOR THE UNINITIATED

The year is 2014. The multiplayer FPS genre has been dominated by a very specific brand of aim down sights/sprint based shooters, which started really exploding with the popularity of Call of Duty. Since then, for the majority of shooters... if you want to play them, you have to deal with that type of combat and gameplay.

But there existed a time before Call of Duty. A time when Unreal Tournament and Quake existed, which were some of the most finely tuned and blazingly fast FPS multiplayer experiences ever made to this day. A time when Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer was so sweetly balanced that it didn't need to hold your hand so you could hit something. The gameplay itself was so engaging and so competitive that you felt compelled to get better, and didn't need a constant feed of positive reinforcement to do so. You didn't need level ups and fuckin' attachments and stat differentials; it wasn't how much you grinded that mattered, but how much of the accumulated skill sets you internalized.

Halo existed in the between time, right when consoles were starting to be really feasible for competitive FPS titles. And it added some new things, yes, but it was still very much rooted in an older tradition, one where again it was simply skill vs. skill and the pace was entirely governed by the rules it played by which remained a staple.

Consider where we are today. One of the reasons people were so furious about Tomb Raider 2013 is that it destroyed entirely a gametype that literally no longer exists in the industry, replacing it with something we see every other goddamn day. It may have been acceptable in some remote way if we had a world where the older genre was thriving, but we don't. And it's not like the older genre was bad (quite the contrary, it remains amongst the best ideas ever had in gaming) - it's just newer gamers were conditioned to have their hands held to such an extreme that they no longer could adjust to those old gameplay ideals.

The same is true of Halo. Because there are extremely few games anymore in the old tradition. Almost no games in the old Halo tradition. They simply don't exist, squeezed out of existence by whining new fans who couldn't adjust, couldn't acquire the skill sets, and therefore demanded the few remaining vestiges of this amazing older style to be expunged. So now Halo too is becoming like all those other "me-too" shooters, and where does that leave those who actually liked that older tradition? With few if any options left.

And that's just part of the issue.

Because maybe if there was some way to do ADS/Sprint and still make it feel like Halo, people would accept it. But as demonstrated with Halo 4, there isn't. It destroyed the heart and soul of the multiplayer and the community simply abandoned it, full stop. They catered to people who did not fucking care and the result is the series cratered.

When you have ADS/Sprint, it changes the entire ebb and flow of the combat. Where before you had "Run and Gun" characteristics, now you have "Run or Gun" flow, where people are either slowing/stopping to shoot through iron sights or then engaging sprint to get out of dodge. This literally transforms the way a traditional Halo match used to go. And it doesn't transform it into something better, but something vastly different, with lower skill requirements and that feels like a billion other shooters on the market.


You don't have to be a fan of Halo to understand why this is so problematic to so many.
Click to expand...

MNpGOg2.gif
 
G

Gestault

Member
viveks86 said:
You, sir, are brave. I'll give you that
Click to expand...

I'll know pretty quickly with it in my hands if it hurts the actual "feel" of gameplay, but in that clip at least, it's partly because the BR already had what amounted to aiming down the sights. I never had a problem when they added sprinting. It didn't seem to interrupt any of the other gameplay systems.

InsuRn said:
I'm not a Halo fan, but you totally nailed most problems with today's games. I really miss the old Unreal Tournament/Quake III Arena style of fast gameplay :(
Click to expand...

Which Halo, at the time, was derided by communities of because it was so "slow"? I played and loved both. I know what you mean about the sense of an arena shooter, but let's not pretend Halo was something it wasn't.
 
T

Twookie

Member
DNAbro said:
343 just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Halo fan culture (I'm an expert), but no sprinting and lack of ADS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in CoD where you can become successful by being a camper. If you camp in Halo, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the xbox public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Halo 5 for xbox one, nor will they purchase the Master Chief Collection. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but 343 has alienated an entire market with this move.

343, publicly apologize and cancel sprinting and ADS for Halo 5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

I always appreciate these
 
I

iMax

Member
Vire said:
Because it reduces the skill gap and Halo has always been a game that requires much more skill than Call of Duty.
Click to expand...

This isn't a smart business decision for a developer to make. Accessibility is king, for better or worse.
 
M

MarauderShields

Member
devilsadvocat said:
Or.... Maybe they could have not released the game a week before black ops 2 and gave that game a chance to breathe! Halo 5 is going up against a Treyarch COD, is history going to repeat itself or will 343 be smart and release the game in late November or early September
Click to expand...

If they can't compete then maybe they shouldn't be so desperate to chase the COD audience. Does it really matter if its dying 2 months later instead of just 1 week? That is still a massive problem.
 
W

Waylon Drums

Member
DNAbro said:
343 just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Halo fan culture (I'm an expert), but no sprinting and lack of ADS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in CoD where you can become successful by being a camper. If you camp in Halo, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the xbox public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Halo 5 for xbox one, nor will they purchase the Master Chief Collection. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but 343 has alienated an entire market with this move.

343, publicly apologize and cancel sprinting and ADS for Halo 5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

Is this a reference to something? It's familiar...


I actually had no idea how little I knew about the Halo series until now. I assumed it was just space CoD, having never played one. *the more you know*
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
Reach had sprinting as well didn't it? Not that much of an issue on its own, but considering what 343 did with Halo 4, it seems like they're attempting to change Halo to suit another market in that genre.

I saw this on the almost no evidence whatsoever.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
tghm1801 said:
You are literally oozing superiority. You can explain why Halo is different or superior to other FPSes without shitting on other people because they don't play the type of games you do.
Click to expand...

It is actually the mechanical truth though. Slowing down and giving people the ability to aim in tighter and tighter zoomed in ways appeases people with lower skill levels. You call that "shitting on people", but having a lower skill level isn't some inherently bad thing that makes people worse or inferior people. It simply means they need to be catered to with DIFFERENT games, and there are a billion types of those different games and almost no Halo type games.

THAT is the issue.
 
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