wow, thanks a lot bro . Does this mean that this "geas" was planted on Halsy? You know, because she invented the spartan program?
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Halo 5 Guardians: #huntthetruth
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Poodlestrike
Banned
Technically, it was planted on Halsey's great-great-great-great-great (etc) grand whatever, but yeah. The Geas "culminated" in Halsey.
So if Hasley hadn't come up with the Spartan program, someone else would have come up with the exact same idea? And an A.I as revolutionary as Cortana for that matter? That kind of seems not as cool.
Compsiox
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, no. Halsey is the only one who could have come up with it, because Halsey was the only one with the active geas. Anyone with the active geas would have ended up pretty much identically to Halsey.
At least, that's how I think it would have played out. Someone who paid better attention to the Forerunner books could probably fill this in more.
wesleyshark
Banned
What did the librarian exactly do to the chief? And what she said about the chief and the armor being 100 years of plan, is that a lore thing? Somebody read about it in books? Can someone please help me understand this part ?
John-117: Who are you?
Librarian: I am what remains of the Forerunner, once known as the Librarian. My memories were retained to assist Humanity on their path to the Mantle. Though sadly, that plan is now at risk. The Didact is leaving Requiem - soon. You must not allow it.
John-117: Leaving?
Librarian: He seeks this - the Composer. A device that will allow him to finally contain the greatest enemy ever faced by the Forerunners. You. Mankind spread into the stars with an unexpected, desperate violence. Entire systems fell before the Didact's Warrior Servants rose up to halt the aggression. When the Didact finally exhausted the Humans after a millenia, his sentence was severe. We had no way of knowing that the Forerunners were not your only enemy. Humanity hadn't been expanding. They were running. Weakened from our conflict, we were no match for the parasite which pursued you. The Forerunners made plans for a final, great yourney. But the Didact refused to yield our Mantle of Responsibility. He would save all life in the Galaxy... at a cost. In the Forerunners' quest for transcendence, the Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms. It would have made us immortal. But its results soured. The stored personalities fragmented, and our attempts to return them to biological state created only abominations. Such moral concerns faded from the Didact's attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue. The Composer would provide the Didact his solution... and his revenge.
John-117: The Prometheans... they're Human-
Librarian: They were only the beginning. He would have encrypted your entire race if we had not removed the Composer from his care and imprisoned him here. Reclaimer, when I indexed mankind for repopulation, I hid seeds from the Didact. Seeds which would lead to an eventuality. Your physical evolution. Your combat skin. Even your ancilla, Cortana. You are the culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning.
John-117: Planning for what?
Humanity, as decided by the Precursors, was meant to take over as the Caretakers of the Mantle. The Forerunners, who were at the time the current Caretakers, had squandered their responsibility, and upon finding out that they had been chosen against, they rebelled against the Precursors and in effect wiped most of them out. Those who survived fled the galaxy, only to return later, and quite subversivly, as what would become the Flood.
Later, the Forerunners, after having pushed back the Precursors, set out to war against Humanity in order to de-evolve their entire race so they could not then take the Mantle in which they were supposed to obtain rightfully. What the Forerunners didn't realize was that Humanity's vast and unprecedented spread throughout the galaxy wasn't out of conquest, but out of cleansing. Humanity was attempting to eradicate the Flood before it could spread even further. There was a possible cure/solution to the Flood that Humanity knew and/or harbored, but that information was lost or hidden during the Human-Forerunner War, which Humanity eventually lost.
As the war ended, Didact and Librarian had two opposing views of what should happen to the Humans. Didact wanted to turn them into Prometheans. Librarian wanted to preserve them, to be saved and to be given another shot, later on, as she still held onto the view that Humanity is the true heir to the Mantle.
The final decision was that the Halo rings were to be used to wipe out the Flood, and to eradicate all life in the galaxy that was not kept safe on the Halo rings themselves as seeds. UrDidact was imprisoned by the Librarian on Requiem. IsoDidact, Chant-to-Green, and many other Forerunners departed the Milky Way. Librarian stayed behind to oversee the firing of the Halos.
On Genesongs:
Certain humans were seeded with genesongs (essentially: an implant of the conciousness of another being's thoughts and memories and personality). Chakas was seeded with the Lord of Admirals's geas. Riser was assumingly seeded with IsoDidact's geas. Vinnevra was seeded with Librarian's geas. These genesongs would then travel through the family trees of these indiviuals up unto certain points, when they would be awakened within the humans they were predestined to be imposed on in the first place. Chakas was composed into 343 GS, so his genesong was lost for a time, until it later was awoken after the events of Halo 3. Halsey is a descendent of Vinnevra, possibly, and her genesong was, in theory, passed to Cortana. Riser's genesong is, in theory, awaiting to be awoken within John 117.
Librarian: I am what remains of the Forerunner, once known as the Librarian. My memories were retained to assist Humanity on their path to the Mantle. Though sadly, that plan is now at risk. The Didact is leaving Requiem - soon. You must not allow it.
John-117: Leaving?
Librarian: He seeks this - the Composer. A device that will allow him to finally contain the greatest enemy ever faced by the Forerunners. You. Mankind spread into the stars with an unexpected, desperate violence. Entire systems fell before the Didact's Warrior Servants rose up to halt the aggression. When the Didact finally exhausted the Humans after a millenia, his sentence was severe. We had no way of knowing that the Forerunners were not your only enemy. Humanity hadn't been expanding. They were running. Weakened from our conflict, we were no match for the parasite which pursued you. The Forerunners made plans for a final, great yourney. But the Didact refused to yield our Mantle of Responsibility. He would save all life in the Galaxy... at a cost. In the Forerunners' quest for transcendence, the Composer had been intended to bridge the organic and digital realms. It would have made us immortal. But its results soured. The stored personalities fragmented, and our attempts to return them to biological state created only abominations. Such moral concerns faded from the Didact's attention. The Flood only assimilated living tissue. The Composer would provide the Didact his solution... and his revenge.
John-117: The Prometheans... they're Human-
Librarian: They were only the beginning. He would have encrypted your entire race if we had not removed the Composer from his care and imprisoned him here. Reclaimer, when I indexed mankind for repopulation, I hid seeds from the Didact. Seeds which would lead to an eventuality. Your physical evolution. Your combat skin. Even your ancilla, Cortana. You are the culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning.
John-117: Planning for what?
Humanity, as decided by the Precursors, was meant to take over as the Caretakers of the Mantle. The Forerunners, who were at the time the current Caretakers, had squandered their responsibility, and upon finding out that they had been chosen against, they rebelled against the Precursors and in effect wiped most of them out. Those who survived fled the galaxy, only to return later, and quite subversivly, as what would become the Flood.
Later, the Forerunners, after having pushed back the Precursors, set out to war against Humanity in order to de-evolve their entire race so they could not then take the Mantle in which they were supposed to obtain rightfully. What the Forerunners didn't realize was that Humanity's vast and unprecedented spread throughout the galaxy wasn't out of conquest, but out of cleansing. Humanity was attempting to eradicate the Flood before it could spread even further. There was a possible cure/solution to the Flood that Humanity knew and/or harbored, but that information was lost or hidden during the Human-Forerunner War, which Humanity eventually lost.
As the war ended, Didact and Librarian had two opposing views of what should happen to the Humans. Didact wanted to turn them into Prometheans. Librarian wanted to preserve them, to be saved and to be given another shot, later on, as she still held onto the view that Humanity is the true heir to the Mantle.
The final decision was that the Halo rings were to be used to wipe out the Flood, and to eradicate all life in the galaxy that was not kept safe on the Halo rings themselves as seeds. UrDidact was imprisoned by the Librarian on Requiem. IsoDidact, Chant-to-Green, and many other Forerunners departed the Milky Way. Librarian stayed behind to oversee the firing of the Halos.
On Genesongs:
Certain humans were seeded with genesongs (essentially: an implant of the conciousness of another being's thoughts and memories and personality). Chakas was seeded with the Lord of Admirals's geas. Riser was assumingly seeded with IsoDidact's geas. Vinnevra was seeded with Librarian's geas. These genesongs would then travel through the family trees of these indiviuals up unto certain points, when they would be awakened within the humans they were predestined to be imposed on in the first place. Chakas was composed into 343 GS, so his genesong was lost for a time, until it later was awoken after the events of Halo 3. Halsey is a descendent of Vinnevra, possibly, and her genesong was, in theory, passed to Cortana. Riser's genesong is, in theory, awaiting to be awoken within John 117.
wesleyshark
Banned
Yes to this. See above post!
Poodlestrike
Banned
For those curious, that ^^ is the long version
wesleyshark
Banned
For those curious, that ^^ is the long version
I've had entirely too much coffee today. ( @_@)-b
Thanks again bro, really appreciate it
Thank a lot , I love halo lore. It's soo deep. Hmmm. So the flood are actually ?
precursors?
wesleyshark
Banned
Librarian -> Chant-to-Green -> Vinnevra - [stays dormont through a bunch of human descendents] -> [awakens, but only subconciously] Halsey ~~~> [a full awakening, upon reaching metastability] Cortana?
wesleyshark
Banned
Thanks again bro, really appreciate it
Thank a lot , I love halo lore. It's soo deep. Hmmm. So the flood are actually ?
precursors?
The Flood are, essentially, a twisted and nightmarish mutation of the Precursors. They were a peaceful race, and celebrated and created life throughout the galaxy, and when the Forerunners rose up against them, it basically f***ed up their pysche so badly that they didn't know how to handle it, and they were easily defeated. The mutation came about after the survivors basically went derranged and plotted to turn themselves into what would become the Flood. The process of how this came to be was only lightly touched upon in the Forerunner Trilogy (boy would I love a Precursor novel or set of novels... PSSST STINKLES), so we can only speculate as to how...
...But the Flood spores were found on derelict ships, discovered by ancient human explorers, on the fringes of the milky way. These spores were found to be quite beneficial to a local fauna that humans liked to keep as pets. As the spores were continued to be used, a biological timer was set off, and they began to mute the pets into... something else. And then it began to spread to the humans themselves, and thus The Flood began to spread, and spread very, very quickly.
And whereas the Precurosrs wanted humanity to take over the Mantle, to in effect continue the governing of Order, the Flood, being a mirror convolution of that, seek to consume all life, in order to instead sow Chaos throughout the galaxy.
...But the Flood spores were found on derelict ships, discovered by ancient human explorers, on the fringes of the milky way. These spores were found to be quite beneficial to a local fauna that humans liked to keep as pets. As the spores were continued to be used, a biological timer was set off, and they began to mute the pets into... something else. And then it began to spread to the humans themselves, and thus The Flood began to spread, and spread very, very quickly.
And whereas the Precurosrs wanted humanity to take over the Mantle, to in effect continue the governing of Order, the Flood, being a mirror convolution of that, seek to consume all life, in order to instead sow Chaos throughout the galaxy.
What does this mean?!
wesleyshark
Banned
Mendicant Bias wasn't a human AI construct. He was a Forerunner AI construct, and the Forerunner AIs were composed from the life essences of previously living beings. Who Mendicant Bias once was, if at all important or pertinent to the lore, has yet to be revealed.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Thanks again bro, really appreciate it
Thank a lot , I love halo lore. It's soo deep. Hmmm. So the flood are actually ?
precursors?
Kinda sorta. The Flood are... think of them as a
Precursor byproduct, or mutation. They "preserved" themselves by turning themselves into a powder, that eventually (through a convoluted series of events) turned into the Flood we all know and love/hate.
Possibly. A
metastable AI wouldn't manifest a geas normally, right? She'd be too... big, I guess, to be taken over by another personality.
Plus, she's technically a clone of Halsey, not a child, so I'm not sure how that'd play with the genesong.
Plus, she's technically a clone of Halsey, not a child, so I'm not sure how that'd play with the genesong.
wesleyshark
Banned
Well, her metastability might manifest itself much differently- there's two possible outcomes here:
1. She reaches metastability through means of her AI matrix being able to exist within a fractal rift of slipspace, thus allowing her to continue to expand without the possibility of being ripped apart by her own limitations.
2. She is reversed-composed by the Composer, and becomes flesh and blood, essentially.
2. She is reversed-composed by the Composer, and becomes flesh and blood, essentially.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Would the latter count
as metastability, though? That's an AI specific term, I don't think it's really comparable to being made mortal.
Plus, so cheesy.
Besthelboy
Banned
When discussing lore it's wise to just read the books yourself rather than read someone's own interpretation of material. A lot of stuff in Halo Lore is very much up to debate.
wesleyshark
Banned
It definitely can be instant-cheese, if done poorly, but I'm just tossing ideas out there, given the current state of the canon.
We know UrDidact was trying to reverse-compose Flood mutations back into Forerunners, and part of those tests ended up distorting part of his own being. He never succeeded in being able to reverse engineer the effects of the Composer, much in the way that Halsey, as far as we know, was never able to successfully permit an AI intelligence to exist within a fractal of slipspace- though we do know, according to her journal- that she was attempting it.
I've got a rather crazy chunk of text I've previously written regarding the Halsey bits, but it's kinda lengthy so I may break it up, or just pick out some choice pieces.
I'm curious if perhaps there might be some kind of hybrid event between the two that will lead to Cortana being brough back, and to take it even further, become more than what she currently was as she was going rampant.
I've got a rather crazy chunk of text I've previously written regarding the Halsey bits, but it's kinda lengthy so I may break it up, or just pick out some choice pieces.
I'm curious if perhaps there might be some kind of hybrid event between the two that will lead to Cortana being brough back, and to take it even further, become more than what she currently was as she was going rampant.
wesleyshark
Banned
Besthelboy
Banned
MB had the logic plague, Cortana died due to "natural causes" in AI terms. The gravemind messed with MB so much he wasn't able to handle it, and turned. Very different things.
Hate to turn this into a lore thread , but last questions
In the human forerunner war, how did the humans get so advanced In that time to stand against the forerunners? And how did the forerunners get so advanced to fight against the precursors? Are there any one left from precursors as them self? The forerunners was such a mysterious species to me, from halo legends, buildings in halo1-3 and the terminals. In halo 4 I lost interest in them. I don't think they were presented probably.
Bros, really appreciate it.. Really
wesleyshark
Banned
Yes. And the Forerunner AIs don't go rampant. They can exist for thousands of years with no ill-effects (that we presently know of) other than being a bit daft in interacting with other beings after such long periods of isolation.
Mendicant was infected with the Logic Plague, and was effectively brainwashed into seeing the Forerunners as an adversary.
He's also possibly to blame for how the slipspace portal happened to only send Arbiter's half of Forward Unto Dawn back to earth, and MC/Cortana's half on a collision course with Reqiuem... but uh. Not sure if I want to dive into that theory right now lol.
wesleyshark
Banned
Hate to turn this into a lore thread , but last questions
In the human forerunner war, how did the humans get so advanced In that time to stand against the forerunners? And how did the forerunners get so advanced to fight against the precursors? Are there any one left from precursors as them self? The forerunners was such a mysterious species to me, from halo legends, buildings in halo1-3 and the terminals. In halo 4 I lost interest in them. I don't think they were presented great.
Bros, really appreciate it.. Really
The Forerunners weren't given their full due in Halo 4. If you want to learn more about them, and who they were, and why they did what they did, I highly recommend reading the Forerunner Trilogy by Greg Bear. They are excellent books, and put so many things into perspective.
To lightly answer your question-
the Precursors were not a war-based race of beings. They were celebrants of life and creating life. War and destruction were not things they were capable of doing as they had no need to make use of them whatsoever. They created the Forerunners. They created Ancient Humanity. Both of these races flourished on their own ends of the galaxy, but it was the Forerunners who were initially selected to take over as Caretakers.
Modern Humanity are descendents of Ancient Humanity, but it was an entire re-evolution, as Modern Humanity was re-seeded on Earth after the firing of the Halos, whch eradicated everything. It was basically a Year Zero event that reset all life. It wiped out the Forerunner race. Humanity and all other alien races were reseeded on selected planets to be given a second birth and so that the genesongs implanted in some of these human gene lines would lead them to become who would need to be present at the correct time to be able to take the Mantle and become Caretakers, as was the intent of the Precurosrs before the Forerunners overthrew them for changing their minds over their orignal rights as Caretakers.
Modern Humanity are descendents of Ancient Humanity, but it was an entire re-evolution, as Modern Humanity was re-seeded on Earth after the firing of the Halos, whch eradicated everything. It was basically a Year Zero event that reset all life. It wiped out the Forerunner race. Humanity and all other alien races were reseeded on selected planets to be given a second birth and so that the genesongs implanted in some of these human gene lines would lead them to become who would need to be present at the correct time to be able to take the Mantle and become Caretakers, as was the intent of the Precurosrs before the Forerunners overthrew them for changing their minds over their orignal rights as Caretakers.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Hate to turn this into a lore thread , but last questions
In the human forerunner war, how did the humans get so advanced In that time to stand against the forerunners? And how did the forerunners get so advanced to fight against the precursors? Are there any one left from precursors as them self? The forerunners was such a mysterious species to me, from halo legends, buildings in halo1-3 and the terminals. In halo 4 I lost interest in them. I don't think they were presented probably.
Bros, really appreciate it.. Really
Well, there is a dedicated lore thread that could really use more love, but for now:
-Humans were contemporaries of the Forerunners, being another species created by the Precursors. They were younger (comparatively), but still contemporaries. That's how they got the tech to challenge the Forerunners.
-The Forerunners were significantly less advanced than the Precursors when they rebelled, but Precursor culture wasn't really equipped to handle the idea of violence at that scale. They just couldn't wage war. It's not about advancement.
-There's mentions of some Precursors moving into other galaxies. Presumably, there's still some out there, somewhere.
wesleyshark
Banned
Well said.
Thaaaaaaank you
I will spend more time in Halo lore thread to ask question.
Too bad I don't have real friends who can discuss Halo with me. Just to play online. Am just soooo fascinated by halo lore and stories.
Thanks guys
StalkerUKCG
Banned
This traitor thing seems super obvious.
.. It's chief.
He appears to the UNSC as a rouge spartan so locke is sent to hunt him.
.. It's chief.
He appears to the UNSC as a rouge spartan so locke is sent to hunt him.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Something something Fo'unners.
Man, I hope there's more to it than that.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Okay, I'm hyped.
Dang it.
Dang it.
But what about her though?
GringoSuave89
Banned
Thaaaaaaank you
I will spend more time in Halo lore thread to ask question.
Too bad I don't have real friends who can discuss Halo with me. Just to play online. Am just soooo fascinated by halo lore and stories.
Thanks guys
The Community side board will be the best place. HaloGaf talks lore once in a while, but the lore thread will be the go to Tread. We could always use the fresh blood there
wesleyshark
Banned
The Community side board will be the best place. HaloGaf talks lore once in a while, but the lore thread will be the go to Tread. We could always use the fresh blood there
I've got some crazy wild man theories I may like to offer there, if the Halo Lore gods would have them. :]
wesleyshark
Banned
Could be two-fold...Chief, as he's gone rogue. Halsey, as she's gone to work with Jul.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Go nuts. It's been too long since we've had proper wall-o-text lore discussions.
*cough*greencastle*cough*
wesleyshark
Banned
I've been hoping that the geas implanted in Greencastle's subconcious would alert him of our current discussion so he could chime in...
User 73706
Banned
I'm hoping for Chief, Locke and Arby playable bare minimum.
wesleyshark
Banned
Maybe there's more to it than what we've been ever-so-lightly-teased with so far. ;D
wesleyshark
Banned
That would be amazing. Stinkles pls.
Maaaaan.. I have played through spartan ops, but I don't remember this at all
The Community side board will be the best place. HaloGaf talks lore once in a while, but the lore thread will be the go to Tread. We could always use the fresh blood there
Thanks bro, I will be there to bore the hell out of you guys : D
I have played all games day one when they came out, but there is lots of information and questions I just can't find their answers in games :/
I don't get why they use Tumblr though as opposed to an actual site? I mean I don't know a single person who uses Tumblr, and let's just say my opinion of who does use that site isn't too high based on anecdotal observation.
Hopefully places like r/Halo, HBo, Team Beyond or even twitter will disseminate whatever they post.
Hopefully places like r/Halo, HBo, Team Beyond or even twitter will disseminate whatever they post.
wesleyshark
Banned
Maaaaan.. I have played through spartan ops, but I don't remember this at all
Thanks bro, I will be there to bore the hell out of you guys : D
I have played all games day one when they came out, but there is lots of information and questions I just can't find their answers in games :/
Not possible. I am forever and helplessly a slave to Halo lore and speculation. :]
Poodlestrike
Banned
It's pretty popular, honestly.
And of course they will
Disseminating information from other sites is literally Reddit's whole purpose.
Compsiox
Banned
Someone made a Spartan Ops Movie out of the cinematics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOkBW-e3N4M
It will help a lot of you catch up on the situation.
It's pieced together nicely in HD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOkBW-e3N4M
It will help a lot of you catch up on the situation.
It's pieced together nicely in HD.
wesleyshark
Banned
Because Tumblr is free, easy, and quickly reposted and shared. Tumblr is very much an avidly popular social network.
Final Verdict
Member
Come on man! when is that last time a major game series has killed off it's main protagonist? 343 Killing Cheif would be like Nintendo killing off Mario!
I would love to see here come back as a human, and not only that, but to have here playable as a character that utilizes stealth mechanics (sort of like when you played Elisabeth in Bioshock Infinite)
wesleyshark
Banned
HMMMMMMMMMMMM. I think I just may. But not right this second. Soon. I shall prepare.
wesleyshark
Banned
I dunno about the playable bits, but her evolution and transcendnce is at the very core of what Halo is all about... "What does it mean to be human?" This question is asked from two characters who both struggle with the answers or lack thereof, as they face the challenges laid out for them. Both the MC and Cortana ask these questions both externally and internally, and cuts to the very soul of what Halo is about.