Well Mario doesn't really have lore and story (well, not to most people, anyway...).
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Halo 5 Guardians: #huntthetruth
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Well Mario doesn't really have lore and story (well, not to most people, anyway...).
Has the lore always been alluding to that from early on. I honestly can't stand what they came up with in Halo 4, it's just over cooked layered nonsense that makes any effort done by characters practically meaningless. I cannot suspend my disbelief to the point that an advanced race could plant seeds to lead to such coicidences that need to play out perfectly. It's almost insulting. Lets not forget team UNSC magically bringing a can of whoopass to the galaxy at the end of Halo 4.
Eh, I would qualify that by saying that's what Halo 4 is all about. Those themes were not present in Halo 1-3 or ODST/Reach
Yep. Part of what made Human/Covenant struggle interesting for me was that humanity was such a huge underdog, but survived by tenacity and bravery. There's not much tenacity or bravery present when Infinity is literally ramming through covenant cruisers.
wesleyshark
Banned
I personally loved seeing Infinity rip the covenant cruiser a new one. It's been a long, arduous journey for humanity and they are finally gaining an upper hand, which tips the scales on how the story is presented. It's, as I said, a journey. A journey demands growth in some form. Wouldn't be much of a journey if humanity is forever the underdog. And rest assured, there's going to be something coming that is going to knock humanity back on their ass soon. Just you wait.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Nah. It becomes more believable when you realize just how stupidly advanced the Forerunners were; they're seriously up there. Timelord tier, nearly. But even then, the Genesong stuff has a some flexibility built into it, since it's supposed to work consistently over a very very long time. It builds the right person, essentially, by manipulating attraction and the like.
And the significance of the Infinity gets overstated. The Arbiter's Covenant faction is still bigger and badder they are, Humanity just has a (and I do mean "a" ship, they've only got the one) that can punch on the same weight class as its Covenant equivalents. The UNSC still doesn't have any answer for a Covenant supercarrier like Long Night of Solace other than orbital MAC stations, and even then...
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I agree. I don't see those themes present in Halo 1-3, ODST, or Reach either. I find the recent explanations really cheapen the Master Chief as a character as well. He was always defined not by his strength, speed, etc. But by his luck. What Halo 4+ does is change that idea to not be about improvisation and overcoming great odds, but instead Master Chief's birthright because he couldn't not be awesome.
wesleyshark
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
The thing is... it's still about all those things. The Chief was always born special, that's part of why he was selected for the Spartan program in the first place. But what he's done since is still his own effort.
Shaqiri1987
Banned
I really hope the quasi love story between Cortana and MC that was heavily featured in Halo 4 is either scrapped or 343i gets better writers that don't make me cringe when i see Chief and Cortana trying to share a tender moment.
I was fine with the creation of the Didact and humanity's creation at the hands of the forerunners. I found it intriguing and enjoyed seeing the plot play out.
I was fine with the creation of the Didact and humanity's creation at the hands of the forerunners. I found it intriguing and enjoyed seeing the plot play out.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Coincidence? Eyebrowraise.gif
ori is the new cortana confirmed.
I don't agree with that. Plenty of children chosen for the program died. Plenty were thought to be a good candidate and turned out not to be.
There's a big difference between someone being a good fit for a program (meaning they were just advanced for their age, and of which there were several who also were) and a "you're the intergalactic chosen one" type narrative.
You can't have this type of narrative not go back and influence and infect all previous decisions and events implying that his birthright gave him the edge. Why was he chosen? Birthright. Why didn't he die in augmentation? Birthright. Why didn't he die on Reach? Birthright. Why didn't he die on Halo? Birthright. Etc.
Final Verdict
Member
Yes, in the first Halo game, 343 GS refers to chief as if he is the iso Diadact in the Two Betrayals cutscene.
"but you already knew that?"
"I mean, how couldn't you?"
"We have followed outbreak containment procedure to the letter"
"You were with me each step of the way as we managed this crisis"
"Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?"
"last time you asked me 'if it were my choice, would I do it?'"
"Having had considerable time to ponder you query, my answer is not changed"
Basically the idea is that the chief has been imprinted with the Iso Diadact's traits by the Librarian, and 343 GS knows this, but Master Cheif does not know this yet (it could be that that part of him is dormant, and needs to be activated).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE4H7relFX8
If you care to know the full story, you can watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YklFMcZ0c6s
Poodlestrike
Banned
Hmm. I see where you're coming from.
One simple fix would be to make all of the Spartan II candidates geas recipients, and have that be part of what made Halsey pick them; then, you could just point to the others that died and washed out, and Chief would be excelling on his own merits.
Pure fanwank, tho.
Compsiox
Banned
I don't want HaloFollower to get my view but I guess I'll have to give it to him.
Final Verdict
Member
Yeah, a lot of his stuff can be stupid, and have click bait titles, but his lore stuff is actually kinda good.
I'm not totally buying this either. It's well known that 343 Guilty Spark didn't know a great deal about the greater Forerunner plan, as evidenced by the fact the Ark's location was hidden, he didn't know the locations of the other rings, etc. Given that, it's likely he didn't know repopulation plans for species either, assuming the flood might return or the Halo rings didn't work quite as intended. Especially given the betrayal of Mendicant Bias, it's likely they wouldn't leave such important information in his hands.
That said, I think it's more likely he simply assumed that humans knew the history considering they found the ring. Not knowing that they had randomly jumped there and discovered it likely centuries before they should have. That's why he assumed the humans knew exactly what they were doing when he helped the attempt to light the ring and was surprised when they wanted to stop.
I find that it enriches his character, but YMMV.
It's completely subjective and that's totally fine, opinions and all that. I wish I liked the direction this stuff was heading.
Compsiox
Banned
I followed him the day Halo 4 was announced. After the game actually released he made a video everyday about bullshit.
Compsiox
Banned
cOLD mOLD on a sLATE pLATE
343 painted themselves into a corner trying to be too expansive. The Librarian could have done her space magic to protect the Chief from the Composer and left it at that. You could still have the Forerunner story and what not but the genetic fate markers removed saving the story from being any more convoluted.
Poodlestrike
Banned
While I agree that in the light that Ominym puts it, it's bad, I don't think they've painted themselves into a corner, per se. The Genesong/geas stuff opens up some interesting stories within the themes they've set up (man vs. machine, most notably), and I think there's some interesting opportunities there.
Yeah, I suppose they could do something with can you avoid your fate if it's coded into your being and if anyone else is able to tweak the gene stuff what might that lead to. Still a bit rolleyes to me but I'll judge what they offer in new stuff as it comes. I guess in that Universe, it could easily be as big or small a slice with a sentence in future media and not even be part of other stories.
wesleyshark
Banned
So there's a hidden image in the code of the #HuntTheTruth teaser site:
Sorry to post Halo Follower. Can't find any other video on it yet.
Where have we seen Gods and Demons before?
Hmmmmm, I wonder...
;D
Sorry to post Halo Follower. Can't find any other video on it yet.
Where have we seen Gods and Demons before?
Hmmmmm, I wonder...
;D
But the thing about this is, they can't even pursue the man vs. machine angle anymore without it looking like they don't know what to do. This whole idea of humanizing the Master Chief is fine, but you can't humanize a character whose essentially been elevated to a Christ-like status in the canon. The Master Chief is the product of eons of genetic planning in the making, he is the byproduct of a plan set forth not by himself but someone else to make him special and different.
By that measure? They can't make this a man vs. machine struggle, because he's not even a man. He's a special being, one that is empowered by and necessary to the universe cannon as a singular character. Which couldn't work harder to counteract any attempts to humanize the character.
Poodlestrike
Banned
But he's not singular; there are other humans carrying Forerunner genesongs, we already know that. He is, at most, special, not messianic.
To quote Animal Farm, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
The Master Chief is the specialist of the specials. Which still elevates him to a status much higher than anyone else in the galaxy.
Don't know what your definition of getting it right is. I doubt you'd like Halo 6 either way.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'd argue that he's less special than Halsey, who created him. But that's another discussion.
The relevant bit is that he's not so special as to derail the man vs. machine theme. It could be argued that if factors into it; he's programmed not only by the UNSC, but by millennia old genetic compulsions as well.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Because I can't see any way a man vs. machine narrative becomes plausible when you're given an eons old birthright to be special. Even if there's other specials, they also aren't characters capable of being humanized. That's the problem with branding characters special by means outside of their own.
Bornstellar
Member
This also conveniently explains "you are Forerunner".
It also now makes sense as to why we have Locke as a second playable character, to provide a TLDR for the expanded fiction.
I dunno, John is important in the sense that any current generation is important. He's as close for modern humans as they've been to their precursor legacy, to humanity at its height. He's significant, but I think the "chosen one" connection (at least with what we've seen in the story) is overstated if we're describing him with almost holy reverence. Since a big theme of the games/stories has been how misplaced that sort of characterization of history is, I can't agree with you there.
Final Verdict
Member
Woah! Nice!!
Definitely points to Cortana
"I have defied Gods and Demons"
Wonder if there will be a teaser released on sunday similar to that "gods and Deamons" teaser for Halo 3 all those years ago....(which would obviously lead up to a E3 gameplay reveal for the campaign).
wesleyshark
Banned
Yep. 343 (aka Chakas)'s subconscious is starting to emerge from the depths of where it had long been forgotten and was seeing the imprinted geas of IsoDidact/Bornstellar within MC, but not to a degree of meta-realization, but to the point of abject confusion as he wasn't currently able to put 2 and 2 together.
I love that you put it that way. Very possible.
wesleyshark
Banned
It's either an allusion to Gravemind or to Cortana. I'm leaning towards Cortana, given the recent slip up by the Jameson Locke VA saying that Cortana would be part of the plot in Halo 5.
It's pretty popular, honestly.
And of course they will
Does anyone outside of the 13-19 demographic really use it? I mean yeah I guess it's always nice to cater to new fans, but most Halo fans are now early 20's to we'll into late 30's even early 40's. I dont know a single person who uses Tumblr, which is why. Again anecdotal, haha. Just thinking that they do have Waypoint and could've made their own site for it as well.
wesleyshark
Banned
Look at all the discussion it's led to already after just one day. I'd say it was a pretty successful teaser site thus far.
I mean, the librarian very specifically states this about the Master Chief in Halo 4:
That to me seems pretty specific in saying that the Master Chief is the culmination of this effort, and because of this is the most special. I certainly wouldn't call it overstated given this exchange.
Wow. I have learned seriously so much from you guys today. I was always wondering, Why did 343 GS call MC that.
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
I think she's talking about Spartan IIs in general because none of those things are exclusive to John. You could replace him with any of the other Spartan IIs and that exchange would be the same.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Other than Cortana. I don't think she ever rode with another Spartan.
Cortana is pretty specific.
Bornstellar
Member
Noble 6. Well, at least the small of his back
DATABASE DATABASE
Member
True. But she could if she wanted to.
wesleyshark
Banned
"Your ancilla" is very specific, especially given that Librarian ripped her from the system before meeting up with MC.
But why would she want/need to?
You're confusing someone being a sign that a plan succeeded with what amounts to magic. The Librarian and the Lifeworkers were attempting to elevate humanity back to its status before the Human-Forerunner War. The significance isn't that John is the result, it's that a human reached that point. His presence and the modern equivalent of a gaes means it was a success.
If I'm confusing anything it's because this story is poorly written. If they wanted to convey that they were excited that someone, literally anyone made it there? Then they should've written it that way. Because what they wrote appears that they view the Master Chief as the culmination of those efforts by using specific language to refer to him.
HYYYYYPE