-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo 5 Guardians: #huntthetruth
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
I actually like the almost unhealthy co-dependence they develop toward the end of Halo 4, as one is losing her mind (and it's all she has) and the other is losing the structure in what little life he has (rejection of military authority). They both see how the other is coming apart.
That said, I think the story is more interesting if there's no satisfying "solution" to what happened to Cortana.
Compsiox
Banned
If the pastebin is right it will be Destiny with a story and fun gameplay
If we're talking about this pastebin, then didn't Frankie debunk it almost two years ago?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67995921&postcount=256
Also: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67995991&postcount=258
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67995921&postcount=256
Also: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67995991&postcount=258
Welfare
Member
Don't believe Stinkle's lies.
Unless this dude just somehow manages to guess what 343 would do multiplayer wise, I'm willing to believe some of it might be true.
lets not put frank in a tough place. we love him, dont we?
just read the pastebin, compare to beta and make your conclusions.
frankie's job -if it comes down to it- is to go by schedule, not by fan.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Okay, so my wild story speculation as follows:
Chief is, in the beginning, working with Blue Team to hunt down Halsey. When he catches up to her, however, she tells him that she knows a way to bring back Cortana, but he has to a) get her out of there and b) retrieve Mendicant Bias, a Forerunner AI. Chief complies, and escapes his former team mates.
Now, ONI and a lot of the UNSC brass has come to view Chief and the rest of the Spartan IIs as a potential PR liability and threat to morale, being former child soldiers designed to fight the Insurrectionists. Sort of a living reminder of some of the fucked up shit they've had to do. So when Chief presents them with the opportunity, they take it, and order Locke to dispose of him. Locke, being an upright guy, doesn't really want to do that, but follows orders anyway. He's teamed up with Blue Team and follows the Chief.
At this point, we get some alternating levels as Chief raids Forerunner ruins looking for Mendicant Bias, and Locke & co get the Arbiter's help trying to figure out where the Chief went.
This all comes to a head as Locke and the Chief finally cross paths, resulting in one hell of a confrontation. Things are about to go one way or the other, when who returns but
Chief is, in the beginning, working with Blue Team to hunt down Halsey. When he catches up to her, however, she tells him that she knows a way to bring back Cortana, but he has to a) get her out of there and b) retrieve Mendicant Bias, a Forerunner AI. Chief complies, and escapes his former team mates.
Now, ONI and a lot of the UNSC brass has come to view Chief and the rest of the Spartan IIs as a potential PR liability and threat to morale, being former child soldiers designed to fight the Insurrectionists. Sort of a living reminder of some of the fucked up shit they've had to do. So when Chief presents them with the opportunity, they take it, and order Locke to dispose of him. Locke, being an upright guy, doesn't really want to do that, but follows orders anyway. He's teamed up with Blue Team and follows the Chief.
At this point, we get some alternating levels as Chief raids Forerunner ruins looking for Mendicant Bias, and Locke & co get the Arbiter's help trying to figure out where the Chief went.
This all comes to a head as Locke and the Chief finally cross paths, resulting in one hell of a confrontation. Things are about to go one way or the other, when who returns but
the original forerunners, who are, for the uninitiated, apparently still kicking around somewhere in intergalactic space. Summoned by Chief disturbing the seals around Mendicant Bias, they decide that the galaxy has gone to hell, and humanity has failed as Reclaimers. Cue the Human/Covenant vs. Forerunner war for Halo 6.
wesleyshark
Banned
I think there may be some elements of truth in that post, but I'm taking the whole thing with plenty of salt. Plenty of those salty stinkles.
SicSemperTyrannis
Member
I would play this and likely enjoy the story, well played.
wesleyshark
Banned
I loved Halo 4's direction. The character development that both Mc and cortana go through was superbly written and acted out over the course of the campaign. I won't lie... The ending made me tear up a bit.
wesleyshark
Banned
Oh yesssssssssssssssss. I've been saying since the end of Halo 4 that she wasn't gone for good. There's so much untapped potential for the stage that follows rampancy in an AI. If any AI will reach that theoretical stage, it would be Cortana.
Awesome. I was hoping Locke would be a playable character. Looking forward to some Halo 2 style exposition of his character. (As long as his voice acting improves from that H2A intro video. Yeesh that was bad.)
EroticSushi
Member
This sounds great and I would love to see Blue Team. Can't believe we haven't yet.
shinobi602
Member
There are actually other AIs in Halo lore that have passed the rampancy stage into metastability. Mendicant Bias is one off the top of my head.
Theres a script on the website that redirects to http://www.giga.de/spiele/halo-5/news/halo-5/halo-5-guardians-neue-teaser-website-aufgetaucht/
wesleyshark
Banned
Definitely. I was just referring to current AIs that we interact with directly in the games and extended literature (Roland, BB, etc...). I'm very much hoping that we get some direct MC and Mendicant Bias interactions in Halo 5. My continuing guess is that the shard buried on The Ark is the one that will be sought after, here.
This is excellent speculation. Imo, this is a much better way to handle the return of the forerunners than Didact in H4 was.
infinit777
Member
I loved the relationship between chief and Cortana. Halo 4 was great i don't care what anyone else says.
Works for me.
wesleyshark
Banned
I really enjoyed the reveal of the Didact after all of the setup in the novels. It was very rewarding, however, if you did not read the novels you miss out on A LOT of back story and support as to who Didact is and why he's that way. The terminals do a decent job giving a gloss over but the Forerunner Trilogy is, arguably, a must read if you want to really get into why Halo 4 was the way it was.
I'm really hoping to see IsoDidact make his return, with the remnants of the Forerunners. That would be insanely epic.
And let's not forget the possibility that Master Chief was seeded with a geas, and it has yet to be awoken.
wesleyshark
Banned
Campaign wise, it was my 2nd favorite video game ever. The first being Mass Effect 2.
Boy, do I love a good sci-fi romp with a stellar cast of characters and superb voice acting. I'm quite sure that Halo 5 will not disappoint in that regard.
Set them to "Hype Stage: Prolog - Hype Escalation Commencing."
MB wasn't built with human technology
although he may not have been exactly alien either.
That's quite the bar you set there. Be careful you don't trip on it.
I've read the books and you're right, in that respect it was satisfying to finally flesh out the Didact. However, I didn't like what Greg Bears forerunner trilogy established for the history of the Galaxy as it relates to the forerunners, flood, and especially ancient spacefaring humanity. So I tend to reject the content of those novels entirely. I'd like to see the games refocus on the content from the original Halo trilogy from Bungie and retcon the stuff from some of the books. Wishful thinking..
Oh yeah, I think that co-dependency is the most interesting element. I'm sure it's playing a part in Chief going AWOL in 5. But to me, the relationship, that co-depency, is better as say, a brotherly bond, like losing a squad mate, instead of a love interest, which is what seemed to be happening in 4. I think that stuff will be gone in 5 though, I think we're in for a great campaign.
That pastebin is 100% creamy nonsense. Or rather speculation, there's nothing wrong with it as a fake leak attempt.
To be fair, she was falling apart. Cortana changed throughout the 4 games, and I like where it went. Especially how she started to seem more human than MC near the end, until she was lost, which was the thing that finally broke the Chief.
I sort of hope that its not just Cortana that is the cause of the Chiefs problems in halo 5. I'd like to see how being a Spartan, and one of the last IIs left, has started to wear on him, mentally and psychologically.
He obsesses on Cortana, and he goes off the reservation.
wesleyshark
Banned
The best leaks are the creamiest ones.
I'd like to think whatever the Librarian did to Chief is what's fucking him up, as opposed to him just 'breaking' PTSD style, coupled with the loss of Cortana. These are Spartans, more importantly Spartan-II's. Genetically perfect, and the best of humanity. They willingly go to their death doing their job.
Plus I think because of the "seeds of our future are sown into his past" stuff, it has to do with Librarian, and what exactly made Chief so special. Let's see what the reveal is going to be in a few days.
Plus I think because of the "seeds of our future are sown into his past" stuff, it has to do with Librarian, and what exactly made Chief so special. Let's see what the reveal is going to be in a few days.
wesleyshark
Banned
There's a geas to be awoken inside MC's subconcious. What Librarian did to MC is part of that evolutionary leap that is also involved in propelling Humanity towards becoming the Caretakers of the Mantle. Also, delicious, crispy bacon.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Chief is unique even among the IIs, though; none of the others went through the whole "best friend living in my head goes crazy" thing.
Save us, Bungie.
wesleyshark
Banned
Okay, crazy wild man speculation time. I wrote this up last year as part of a discussion with some Waypoint forum posters- can'd find the old thread but I had the text saved in OneNote, so I'll share with you guys here, since it pertains to possible plot points for Halo 5 or beyond with what may happen to MC, or at least, what was planned for MC by Librarian and IsoDidact.
I don’t think I should need to say this, but… THERE ARE A LOT OF SPOILERS ABOUT TO BE DROPPED if you haven’t read the books or played Halo 4. So. Be ye warned!
On Genesongs
Feel free to ban if too long and/or total creamy nonsense.
I don’t think I should need to say this, but… THERE ARE A LOT OF SPOILERS ABOUT TO BE DROPPED if you haven’t read the books or played Halo 4. So. Be ye warned!
On Genesongs
First off, what the heck is a Geas/genesong? A genesong is a genetic compound imposed on an organism or species. The term itself, “Geas (ge-ah-sh)”, was a Forerunner term, describing the essence of life that the genesong encompassed.
A geas could range from monuments of wisdom and knowledge all the way up the literal mental copy of a particular being’s mind and soul. A geas could be immediately activated, once passed to its new “host”, or it could be locked away within the host or its descendants until certain mental or physical queues, either internal or external, triggered its awakening. Under the influence of a geas, an organism could be given a set of subconscious instructions, details, or orders that would be specific to that organism, or passed on to their offspring, sometimes for a single generation or even down through several generations or more. The procedure of imposing a geas on a life form was conducted (see also: composed) by the skilled hands of Lifeworkers, a Forerunner rate that was tasked with the keeping and preservation of all life throughout the Galaxy, as a most-direct means to uphold the Mantle.
At the closing of the Human-Forerunner war, the Didact ordered many of the strongest and finest human warriors be composed and kept alive as a library of geas testimonials, in the hopes that they could learn how to stop the advance of the Flood. It wasn’t until near the end of the Human-Forerunner war that the Didact realized that the humans weren’t on a march of imperialism- they were trying to eradicate the Flood by “glassing” whole planets where they found the infection. But upon their capture, these human warriors refused to give up their secrets to fighting to the Flood, so, they were composed and transformed into genesongs to be used as a geas in selected humans for later review and revelation.
One of these humans was named Chakas. Another named Riser. (You can read about their story in Halo: Cryptum), but tl;tr- Chakas had been imprinted with the geas of the Lord of Admirals, the most supreme arch enemy to the Didact himself, and harborer of the secrets to the Flood’s defeat, or so the Forerunners assumed. Riser was also imprinted, but his geas is where the fun truly beings…More on that later.
Along with a young rebellious Forerunner named Bornstellar, Chakas and Riser happen across the Cryptum of an old Warrior-Servant, who happens to be the Didact himself. Knowing that his judgment will arrive swiftly, the Didact imprints himself onto Bornstellar, and Bornstellar immediately begins to feel the effects. What the Didact basically does here is make a copy of himself, via his geas, that eventually transforms Bornstellar into Didact #2, aka, the IsoDidact.
So now we have:
Ur-Didact -> IsoDidact
Lord of Admirals -> Chakas
I won't go into the novels too much because tl;tr here- seriously, go read them! They're fantastic!- but what eventually happens is that Chakas ends up being composed and turned into a monitor, the same Forerunner monitor we know as 343 Guilty Spark. The IsoDidact gives a geas to Riser, but it isn't clear whose it belongs to or whom it originally came from.
My speculation:
Riser was given a long-germination type geas of the IsoDidact himself, a geas that wasn't meant for Riser directly, but for a human descendant a few generations later, the same human descendant we know as Spartan John-117.
Woah, wait, what??
In Halo: Combat Evolved, 343GS says to Master Chief, "Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."
In Halo: Primordium, IsoDidact says to 343GS, "Tell me, Chakas, if this was your choice, after all we have seen and survived… would you fire the rings?"
It's been long speculated that 343GS was going rampant, given his seemingly random and unmoored comments during the time you are escorted by him through HCE. I challenge that, and offer the possibility that 343GS was seeing something within Master Chief, via 343GS's geas of Chakas, and through the still 99% dormant geas of IsoDidact-aka-Bornstellar within John-117.
So- as Master Chief continues to evolve and become the Reclaimer he was destined to become through his geas, we might indirectly see the return of IsoDidact-aka-Bornstellar, but not in the most physically obvious way.
So now we have:
Ur-Didact -> IsoDidact -> Riser -> John 117
Lord of Admirals -> Chakas -> 343 Guilty Spark
And! Bonus round:
Librarian -> Chant-to-Green -> Vinnevra -> Catherine Halsey -> Cortana
A geas could range from monuments of wisdom and knowledge all the way up the literal mental copy of a particular being’s mind and soul. A geas could be immediately activated, once passed to its new “host”, or it could be locked away within the host or its descendants until certain mental or physical queues, either internal or external, triggered its awakening. Under the influence of a geas, an organism could be given a set of subconscious instructions, details, or orders that would be specific to that organism, or passed on to their offspring, sometimes for a single generation or even down through several generations or more. The procedure of imposing a geas on a life form was conducted (see also: composed) by the skilled hands of Lifeworkers, a Forerunner rate that was tasked with the keeping and preservation of all life throughout the Galaxy, as a most-direct means to uphold the Mantle.
At the closing of the Human-Forerunner war, the Didact ordered many of the strongest and finest human warriors be composed and kept alive as a library of geas testimonials, in the hopes that they could learn how to stop the advance of the Flood. It wasn’t until near the end of the Human-Forerunner war that the Didact realized that the humans weren’t on a march of imperialism- they were trying to eradicate the Flood by “glassing” whole planets where they found the infection. But upon their capture, these human warriors refused to give up their secrets to fighting to the Flood, so, they were composed and transformed into genesongs to be used as a geas in selected humans for later review and revelation.
One of these humans was named Chakas. Another named Riser. (You can read about their story in Halo: Cryptum), but tl;tr- Chakas had been imprinted with the geas of the Lord of Admirals, the most supreme arch enemy to the Didact himself, and harborer of the secrets to the Flood’s defeat, or so the Forerunners assumed. Riser was also imprinted, but his geas is where the fun truly beings…More on that later.
Along with a young rebellious Forerunner named Bornstellar, Chakas and Riser happen across the Cryptum of an old Warrior-Servant, who happens to be the Didact himself. Knowing that his judgment will arrive swiftly, the Didact imprints himself onto Bornstellar, and Bornstellar immediately begins to feel the effects. What the Didact basically does here is make a copy of himself, via his geas, that eventually transforms Bornstellar into Didact #2, aka, the IsoDidact.
So now we have:
Ur-Didact -> IsoDidact
Lord of Admirals -> Chakas
I won't go into the novels too much because tl;tr here- seriously, go read them! They're fantastic!- but what eventually happens is that Chakas ends up being composed and turned into a monitor, the same Forerunner monitor we know as 343 Guilty Spark. The IsoDidact gives a geas to Riser, but it isn't clear whose it belongs to or whom it originally came from.
My speculation:
Riser was given a long-germination type geas of the IsoDidact himself, a geas that wasn't meant for Riser directly, but for a human descendant a few generations later, the same human descendant we know as Spartan John-117.
Woah, wait, what??
In Halo: Combat Evolved, 343GS says to Master Chief, "Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."
In Halo: Primordium, IsoDidact says to 343GS, "Tell me, Chakas, if this was your choice, after all we have seen and survived… would you fire the rings?"
It's been long speculated that 343GS was going rampant, given his seemingly random and unmoored comments during the time you are escorted by him through HCE. I challenge that, and offer the possibility that 343GS was seeing something within Master Chief, via 343GS's geas of Chakas, and through the still 99% dormant geas of IsoDidact-aka-Bornstellar within John-117.
So- as Master Chief continues to evolve and become the Reclaimer he was destined to become through his geas, we might indirectly see the return of IsoDidact-aka-Bornstellar, but not in the most physically obvious way.
So now we have:
Ur-Didact -> IsoDidact -> Riser -> John 117
Lord of Admirals -> Chakas -> 343 Guilty Spark
And! Bonus round:
Librarian -> Chant-to-Green -> Vinnevra -> Catherine Halsey -> Cortana
Feel free to ban if too long and/or total creamy nonsense.
Poodlestrike
Banned
It's an interesting theory. That said, the evidence in favor of
343 Guilty Spark going rampant is still stronger than the evidence against, especially in light of the Human != Forerunner information/retcon.
D:
Mulan 3 unconfirmed.
link1201
Member
Ok, I'm ready to board this train.
wesleyshark
Banned
True. Given the retcons and the changeover from Bungie to 343, it is very unclear as to which direction that they are taking that, if anywhere at all. It can definitely be argued either way. But I have a fondness for tinfoil hats made out of precious forerunner metals.
Exploratory
Banned
Your opinion is wrong. Halo 5 is finally right.
Leyasu
Banned
You're god damn right! Halo 5 was fucking awesome..
wesleyshark
Banned
And thinking on it further- while he may be going rampant, or whatever the equivalent of rampancy for Forerunner AIs would be (if there even is something like that), I just find it very interesting that they'd include this line in the Forerunner Trilogy, which directly references/preludes what 343 later says to MC in HCE:
"Tell me, Chakas, if this was your choice, after all we have seen and survived… would you fire the rings?"
Thousands and thousands of years later...
"Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."
"Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."
I just can't shake that correlation.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Hmm. True. It's definitely a deliberate callback (or call forward, if you're going chronologically). I could see both being true; the Chief having
an imprint of the Didact, and Guilty Spark just being nuts.
I think Hasley will be used in a way that will result in a clone of her younger self with Cortana's memories applied, Hasley herself will be redeemed with a selfless act not necessarily that but something that she realises is the only right choice, 343 made her out to be much more evil I can't see it ending any other way. Cortana meanwhile, maybe as a result of alien technology that helped create her clone will have a magic power or two, if not her then Chief with space jesus tweaks. Could be completely wrong and it's just the adventures of Chief with Cortana back in his head which is fine but more adventures not Halo 4 either way.
wesleyshark
Banned
I don't see her as being evil-they just added a very deep level of complexity to her character that cannot be taken at face value. On the surface, yes, it would appear that she is just being a total dick machine, but below the surface, there's so much more at play, there, and her motives are not even close to being known yet. She's one of the most intelligent people to be in existence of the current canon. She's got her reasons. I'm thinking we'll begin to understand her a lot more as things start to flower within the next game and the extended literature, if applicable.
wesleyshark
Banned
Yeah I think 343 GS is a little off-kilter, but that is a pretty clear given since he was all by himself for how many thousands of years
after he was composed into form from his human self, Chakas. And Chakas was already a little unhinged as it was, and even more-so, Riser.
Also, the events of the forerunner trilogy are being told from the fragmented data streams being pulled from a fragment of 343 GS that was discovered after the self-destruction of the replacemet Halo. 343 is starting to remember who he used to be. I think that those stories being told from a current canon viewpoint is very important to keep in mind, as opposed to just being told from a static viewpoint for historical sake.
Also, the events of the forerunner trilogy are being told from the fragmented data streams being pulled from a fragment of 343 GS that was discovered after the self-destruction of the replacemet Halo. 343 is starting to remember who he used to be. I think that those stories being told from a current canon viewpoint is very important to keep in mind, as opposed to just being told from a static viewpoint for historical sake.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't think 343 made her out to be evil at all; they just embraced the implications of the character that Nylund always avoided. She's brilliant but intensely arrogant, cold but sometimes caring. She gives not 3 fucks for the UNSC, not really; what she cares about is her Spartans and the advancement of humanity. Her actions in Spartan Ops reflect all that nicely.
What did the librarian exactly do to the chief? And what she said about the chief and the armor being 100 years of plan, is that a lore thing? Somebody read about it in books? Can someone please help me understand this part ?
Short version: the Forerunner grasp of genetics and probability is/was so great they could program personalities, ideas into species that would only bloom millennia later. The Chief is the result of one such "programming," known as a geas. The librarian basically planted the idea of Spartans and Mjolnir into the human genetic code, such that it would, eventually, become a reality. What she did to him was activate another part of that Geas, that somehow made him immune to being Composed. How, exactly, isn't totally clear, as far as I know. Probably something to do with the Composer only being intended to work on very specific types of life forms.
