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Halo Online modders working to strip micro-transactions, release worldwide
- Thread starter mocoworm
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meanspartan
Member
If you are indeed involved in this, Id advise you to stop. Even though they fucking deserve it. Id love to see them eat shit for their empty promises (listed above) but its not worth getting yourself in trouble over.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
And now I've already been quoted as well. I'm super screwed...
I'm not going to run to the mods just because I disagree from a moral standpoint. If you edit your post, I'll edit my quote to reflect the change.
Who's to say that isn't coming? All we know is that Halo Online was intended for Russia, so they obviously have some PC work going on.
thehillissilent
Member
So what is the ultimate goal? Do you want to study and alter the source code to create custom halo maps a la Forge? Are you studying the code to eventually migrate work to a different engine (ex. Unreal Engine 4). You guys obviously have access to source code and assets.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
I dont know what MS expected, honestly, did they think "lets release this in Russia only...The rest of the world will surely not hack/mod/pirate this....." OR this is some sort of twisted marketing scheme, to then announce Halo MCC for PC. Something smells way way off in this behaviour.
Thanks for the offer.
I'm going to leave my post as it is though, and assume any mods can tell that it's not serious, and was posted in agreement of Miles' point above it (this current post may even help).
Of course, it that doesn't work out, then this could all be rather embarrassing.
apollo_013
Banned
i could be wrong but isn't the game multiplayer only?
i mean if you try to play the pirated version you will be at the very least IP banned and possibly reported to the cybercrime authority of your country.
so all people will be able to do is run around empty levels wondering what could have been, and although not a fan i dont see the huge harm in that.
if however the leak enables the possibility of setting up private servers for the pirated versions that shit is definitely not okay.
slighty offtopic but i think the reason most arent jumping at the chance, reasonbly as it might be, to defend microsofts honor in this is because some of their decisions in the past have been questionable at best to down right hostile to pc gamers.
i mean if you try to play the pirated version you will be at the very least IP banned and possibly reported to the cybercrime authority of your country.
so all people will be able to do is run around empty levels wondering what could have been, and although not a fan i dont see the huge harm in that.
if however the leak enables the possibility of setting up private servers for the pirated versions that shit is definitely not okay.
slighty offtopic but i think the reason most arent jumping at the chance, reasonbly as it might be, to defend microsofts honor in this is because some of their decisions in the past have been questionable at best to down right hostile to pc gamers.
I guess they didn't think people would go nuts over a beta.
The source code of an older build was uploaded to 4chan and they are modifying the (stolen) source code to make the game into the one they want it to be, which means the multiplayer isn't the same as the official game, it'll also be P2P. It's 100% theft.
thehillissilent
Member
This is definitely looking like it is moving towards a MP game hosted peer-to-peer.
I would love for them to study the source code, re-engineer it, and recreate the game in another engine (UE4, Unity5) with a custom SP campaign using pre-made assets. Of course, that might not happen.
RandomExpletive
Member
Crayon
Member
I was mean to fox avatar because he quoted my general comment and responded with some horseshit. I should have ignored him but im not perfect. I should mention that it was nice of you to respind, tattoo dwarf, after i was rude.
Anyway... Lets hope that our guest provides a well articulated argument. I havent read the link yet. Weather you see it as clear cut crime or morally ambigous its surely interesting and the converstation is most fruitful when we are tolerant of each others point of view. Btw i am more than tolerant of your point of view. I understand completely where youre coming from.
DEElekgolo
Banned
personally I'm just tinkering with the engine for the pure fun of it like the old halo 1 PC modding days. Which is all that we are capable of now for the most part. A lot of old information from modding halo 3 and even halo 2 is working for this game. Some other guy is possibly doing networking stuff but to think that we can get some full-featured private server that simulates all of their endpoints and services 1:1 enough to replace the need for the original servers completely is very silly. Some extent of that might be possible but it's not something that all of us want. Circumventing the cash-shop stuff is something that is strangely and recently dwelled upon by journalists in an attempt to label everyone involved as some piracy-supporting demon or something.
Whilst I can somewhat understand that, I still don't think its something that should be encouraged. If A steals B's purse, that doesn't mean I think it's acceptable when B sets A's house on fire.
Not only that, but people seem to forget that they may just be fucking over the wrong person. Microsoft as a company may be one entity, but the people there are just like us... and in this case the most impacted here would probably be Saber Interactive.. who you probably don't have a very substantial list for.
apollo_013
Banned
uhh... i would've figured it was using azurecloud for dedicated severs.
if the multiplayer is P2P than yea, they're probably gonna make pirated servers(please don't)
ricardo_sousa11
Member
A MP Halo game on Pc...its very naive to think that people wouldnt go crazy about this, and make private servers for this. I mean, Pc community have been asking for a Halo game for years and years, they knew it would be received like this, the question is....why did they still do it ?!
Necromanti
Member
Copyright infringement is not (necessarily) stealing, no, since it does not always result in commercial loss.
What they are doing bothers me as much as people listening to or watching a video on Youtube uploaded by someone who doesn't own the content, using AdBlock on Twitch, sharing their Netflix/HBO Go account details with friends, using copyrighted content as an avatar on an online forum, playing (JPN exclusive) PSO2 with the unofficial English patch, or using a VPN to overcome region restrictions (whether this means watching a video or getting a region-specific discount on a game) does.
It is entirely understandable (and logical) that a corporation would protect their IPs, copyrights, and financial interests and think they should work on incentivizing people not infringing upon their copyrights, but that doesn't evoke an emotional response from me.
best way to fight piracy is make getting what the pirates are giving easier directly from a legit source. The people want Halo on PC across the whole world (who would have thought, duh, except for 343 of course), then give it to them and there will be no reason for this project to even exist.
Arguing that they shouldn't play an unauthorised version of a game in an anticipated high profile franchise isn't a realistic view to have though, is it? There are a large number of people out there who are hungry for a PC Halo title, and the more dedicated fans are absolutely going to peep under the hood, tinker with custom servers, bypass the region lock via VPN, etc. Never mind the community interest purely because of it being a high profile FPS franchise (which had an active mod scene when the first title was released on PC as I recall). I don't think that's bonkers at all, especially when it comes after years of waiting and vague talk of PC support that never materialised.
In the end I am completely unsurprised that this has happened and it should have been obvious to Microsoft from the moment the idea was pitched, which is disappointing. What's even more disappointing is how many people here are out for the blood of the modders, as if the genie can be put back in the bottle at this point. Someone was inevitably going to mod this game from the moment the phrases "Halo", "free to play", and "Russia only" were tied to it. In fact, for many modders the simple fact that it's a new Halo game for them to play around with after such a long wait would be reason enough, incomplete or not.
Maybe they didn't want to do another MCC. 343i isn't even talking about a launch date for the game in Russia yet, their just saying that they've launched a closed beta there.
For all we know Microsoft might want to wait for a WW beta until they've got Windows 10 RTM.
But this is just assumptions, maybe Microsoft just said "eh fuck it, let's toy with those Master Race folks".
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Maybe you should read up on US copyright infringement law because it is stealing and illegal. This isn't the same as watching a video on youtube or hearing downloaded music and you know it.
Mister Negative
Member
I jump on and play Murder Miners occasionally. It's about as close as you can get to Halo on PC right now but nobody is ever really playing Halo gamemodes.
Bullshit.
Mods themselves are copyright infringement unless the author gives express permission to create them. You are talking nonsense.
There is a thing called fair use, that allows you to create derivative content from other people work if it is non profit.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Um, you realize mods have to replace original assets to avoid copyright infringement, right? Also, not every company cares. Fair use doesn't apply when you steal an unreleased product to avoid micro-transactions. You are talking nonsense.
Necromanti
Member
If you find a line that equates copyright infringement to stealing, then I'm all ears, but now you're making a legal argument when I was making a moral and/or ethical one.
As for the latter part, I stated that I viewed them equivalent in terms of degrees of severity (since I don't see copyright infringement as being a black and white issue). I don't see how consuming copyrighted content on Youtube, for example, when one has the means (in terms of online availability) to pay the content owner is significantly better, though.
Although I don't see any importance in my choice to not really...care.
I doubt this will come to any markets where the xbox 360/ one is selling decently. I think this will be exclusive to markets where PC is the dominant gaming platform and everywhere else will just have to buy Xbox to play halo. They've had what seems like a decade to bring Halo to PC and they don't seem to have any real intentions of doing so for everyone, even in the face of demand. All this talk of streaming back and forth between PC and Xbox is not even remotely in the same universe what people have been asking for and it still involves you buying their console.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It's called ElDorito?
Seriously /v/? Ok that's fucking hilarious
Seriously /v/? Ok that's fucking hilarious
The audacity!
Gucci Messiah
Banned
I'm not going to sit here and play the semantics game with you. Did Microsoft give this group access to unreleased code and allow them to modify the game/re-release it as they see fit? If the answer is no, then that is what most rational human beings would consider to be theft.
That is nonsense knowing that majority of mods consist of replacing original assets with better ones(or just different ones) or modifying the game behavior without touching any asset.
Copyright Infringement is usually about intellectual property.
And as I have said, it is not illegal because of Fair Use:
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Yea, but a what do you call a mod that circumvents a product's payment system? Are you simply "modding" commercial software when a crack causes it to stop loading up in "demo mode"?
Gucci Messiah
Banned
You seem to be under the impression that fair use is a magical license to steal which is ignorant.
source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107
In a court of law this would not be held up as fair use. It is a clear cut case of piracy which is theft, especially when the intent is to circumvent paying money to the copyright holder. Blows my mind that you can't wrap your head around this concept.
DEElekgolo
Banned
still don't see why you guys are talking about stealing and piracy from microtransactions when this clearly isn't any sort of goal of ours.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
for the last time, I'm not involved and I'm not even sure where you guys are getting that from.
Indeed they are, at the very least implicitly. Microsoft has decided not to allow people outside of Russia to access the game. That's their choice; disregarding their business model to get a hold of the game anyway while fully knowing their intent demonstrates a sense of entitlement. And that's before we get into comments along the lines of "should have given us what we wanted."
You can call the observation garbage all you want but you can't change the underlying entitlement.
The correct response here is to demonstrate demand - it is not to pirate.
And that fair use justification is a really fundamentally wrong reading of the law.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Did Microsoft give you access to the leaked build or are you accessing it without permission? Are the takedown notices not proof that they do not approve of what ElDorito is doing? Clearly your group doesn't care what the IP owner thinks or wants.
Doug Heffernan
Member
That doesn't sound legal.
I was talking about ElDorito, it doesn't do what you are saying, right?
In the case you are talking about, I suppose it depends on the "crack".
If the crack is a modified and redistributed version of an original game file, it is copyright infringement.
If the crack is completely external to the demo, let's say for example, you modify a memory address value, it can't be.
Altered Juice
Member
getting desparate for that halo 3 port.
DEElekgolo
Banned
Sounds like you're trying really hard to convince everyone we're pirates. Seems this article worked on you.
This is exactly what it is doing. Even people in russia that have the game legitimately can use it so they can run around maps on their lonesome. Which is all the ElDorito software allows you to do.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Sounds like you're getting defensive and avoiding simple questions. Seems like you're a pirate.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
People are getting worried for no reason. There is no way this is Russia only thing, they are just testing the f2p fps market there. There is going to be a bigger worldwide release of this, i mean there has to be. And its all gonna somehow tie into their Windows 10 plan.
Just gotta wait.
Just gotta wait.
Hmm... "yes" and "no" to the bolded, based on what I've heard about it so far. "No" in that, you can't currently play Halo Online multiplayer for free with all your friends. "Yes" in that it already grants instant access to weapons that would otherwise require either a time or monetary commitment. In other words, the game's payment system.
As for the internal/external stuff, that should mean that any software with either an external license, or some sort of serial is never pirated because you didn't alter the actual binaries in order to cheat the author out of his sale. Is this your stance?
Zomba13
Member
Just wondering, would you be saying the same things if this was post RU release with the client and all that being free to download but requiring you to be in Russia to play? Because while yeah, it's a sketchy having access to an unofficial early build that was leaked, what they are doing would be the same then or now which is essentially modding a game.
The code they are writing for their program seems to be original work right? Stuff that just interfaces with the MS code in the game? Then is the big thing that they downloaded the leaked version and whether that is the piracy bit? Because that I could see both sides for (depends on MS's release and payment plans for the final version to me).
People really don't seem to understand Halo's engine geek base in this thread.
90% of the fun is tearing Halo engines apart and seeing how they tick. Piracy is the farthest thing from anyone's mind.
And yes, this is an entire segment of the Halo fanbase. People that like to explore and push the engine around. I'm one of those types of people (but not involved in this project)
You really think people would want to play on an old ass build, anyway? Most everyone in the US will just VPN or use some other trick into Halo Online to log into the latest stable version. Most people are just having fun playing around with the engine. You can do a lot of the tricks with HPC or a modded Xbox/360 (and sometimes not even that). There's extensive community knowledge about how the engine works, which is why the progress is so fast.
90% of the fun is tearing Halo engines apart and seeing how they tick. Piracy is the farthest thing from anyone's mind.
And yes, this is an entire segment of the Halo fanbase. People that like to explore and push the engine around. I'm one of those types of people (but not involved in this project)
You really think people would want to play on an old ass build, anyway? Most everyone in the US will just VPN or use some other trick into Halo Online to log into the latest stable version. Most people are just having fun playing around with the engine. You can do a lot of the tricks with HPC or a modded Xbox/360 (and sometimes not even that). There's extensive community knowledge about how the engine works, which is why the progress is so fast.
Since when ElDorito is piracy or stealing?
Is it a modified and redistributed file of the game? No as far as I know.
Is distributed with any asset or file of the game? No as far as I know.
Does it come with a copy of the game itself? No.
Is GeDoSaTo piracy and stealing too? Or ReShade?
One theory is that MS only chooses to make it exclusive to russia in fear that it will cannibalise the halo fanbase between this, Halo MCC and Halo 5
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