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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm

Caja 117

Member
What a joke, I guess this is the evolution of Halo, from Halo 2 ranks, to Halo Reach Arena, to having nothing. a game where Wining is not what is important, is how good that Skin look in your BR. Thank god I canceled my LE copy and have not paid for the season pass.

But, what do 343 care about a small group of veteran Halo fans? the money is on the people that are playing CoD and Battlefield right now. I dont blame 343, Video game industry have turn into a profit monster, and whats matter is how you can get the player to pay for stuff like Skins or avatar as DLCs and not the quality of the game, Maybe they add rank playlist as a DLC package.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Don't want to sound too melodramatic, even though this probably will, but I'm dropping my pre-order to the standard. I'm looking forward to Halo 4, to make things clear, but the incentive for the LE was the additional maps, personally. I've outlined numerous times in the last 24 months why Halo 4 needs a visual ranking system to create longevity for me and my friends, and I've briefly, unintelligibly summed it up on this very page for those who aren't aware of my feelings on the subject.

I'm getting a £10 Amazon voucher for something I helped out with, and I'll just drop that on the price of the standard. I want the game, but seeing as the competitive element has been stripped from it, and it now is very much a drop in, earn some coins, unlock some superfluous shit type of experience, I really don't think I'll be motivated to play it all that much two months from release, let alone two years. And I'm sure most of my friends won't even bother with it given their reaction to the codification of Reach, let alone 4.

Again, don't want to sound too negative or bitter, I'm still really excited about Halo 4, and I'll still be buying it day one. I just don't feel that urge to drop an obscene amount of money on it when I don't have complete faith in the product or it's developers like I did for past Halos.

Can't wait for Campaign though, I've avoided all leaked content so far.

I'm in the same boat exactly, but I haven't dropped my LE pre-order yet. Still trying to wait on some kind of confirmation of what launch playlists will look like. I'd be playing mostly in a BTB setting, so what kind of playlists we can get 8 people in is going to be important to me. All of the ranking stuff and whatnot is disappointing, but to be frank I didn't have a ton of expectations going in one way or the other. But also the main reason I was getting it was because I had a lot of friends getting it, but they seem to either be unsure or are straight up dropping it.

Campaign is probably going to be amazing though. The fact that press has already played it, and the embargo is up nearly a full week before release speaks to a very high confidence in the product. Although....they did something similar with RE6.
 

Arnie

Member
What a joke, I guess this is the evolution of Halo, from Halo 2 ranks, to Halo Reach Arena, to having nothing. a game where Wining is not what is important, is how good that Skin look in your BR. Thank god I canceled my LE copy and have not paid for the season pass.

But, what do 343 care about a small group of veteran Halo fans? the money is on the people that are playing CoD and Battlefield right now. I dont blame 343, Video game industry have turn into a profit monster, and whats matter is how you can get the player to pay for stuff like Skins or avatar as DLCs and not the quality of the game, Maybe they add rank playlist as a DLC package.

Industry has always been a profit monster. It's audience expectations that have changed.

Halo 4 will sell buckets.

I'm in the same boat exactly, but I haven't dropped my LE pre-order yet. Still trying to wait on some kind of confirmation of what launch playlists will look like. I'd be playing mostly in a BTB setting, so what kind of playlists we can get 8 people in is going to be important to me. All of the ranking stuff and whatnot is disappointing, but to be frank I didn't have a ton of expectations going in one way or the other. But also the main reason I was getting it was because I had a lot of friends getting it, but they seem to either be unsure or are straight up dropping it.

Campaign is probably going to be amazing though. The fact that press has already played it, and the embargo is up nearly a full week before release speaks to a very high confidence in the product. Although....they did something similar with RE6.
From the image before it indicates that Big Team options at launch are restricted to Big Team Infinity Slayer, I believe. Perhaps someone can correct me?

I dropped the pre-order on a whim, on the wave of some particularly interesting content dump, but really, pragmatically, looking at how this Halo speaks to my tastes, and how my friends are equally unimpressed with the product I just don't see the added content as actually worth the price of admission. I didn't buy all the Reach packs, and I more than likely won't for this.

Game will still be really good though. I think it was Dani that said a Halo game, no matter how it ranks internally, is still better than 99% of the other shit out there. And I'd agree.
 

BigShow36

Member
I like how people are more salty about ranks than they are about actually having competitively viable gameplay that would make the ranks warranted in the first place.
 

MrDaravon

Member
HEY IF YOU'RE WATCHING EITHER OF THE LIVESTREAMS POSTED HIDE THE CHAT, SPOILERS AHOY IN THERE.

I like how people are more salty about ranks than they are about actually having competitively viable gameplay that would make the ranks warranted in the first place.

But it's hard to judge that without people actually having the game in hand yet. The rank thing is something objective they can complain about one way or the other.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Reposting but here is the prompt that pops up if you don't have disc 2 installed.


Still wondering if the DL from Xbox Live option is only via the game or if they will sell MP as a stand alone (which I am sure they will do down the line regardless)
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Industry has always been a profit monster. It's audience expectations that have changed.

Halo 4 will sell buckets.

But it impacts long term revenue (DLC)

I bought all maps for halo 2 and halo 3

I don't believe I own all the reach ones
 
What a joke, I guess this is the evolution of Halo, from Halo 2 ranks, to Halo Reach Arena, to having nothing. a game where Wining is not what is important, is how good that Skin look in your BR. Thank god I canceled my LE copy and have not paid for the season pass.

But, what do 343 care about a small group of veteran Halo fans?
the money is on the people that are playing CoD and Battlefield right now. I dont blame 343, Video game industry have turn into a profit monster, and whats matter is how you can get the player to pay for stuff like Skins or avatar as DLCs and not the quality of the game, Maybe they add rank playlist as a DLC package.

I would have thought an emphasis on gunplay and a pretty good set of options to play a more classic/competitive Halo would have been a great thing.
 

JuanGGZ

Banned
I'm really impressed how the flag carrier is powerful, that's sound very good.

For the Extraction, I'm not sure, but I think it's a mix between Invasion and Territories. It seems you have to capture 3 first territories, then more territories are unlocked and available to capture.
 
The funny thing is how everybody complaining about the lack of a numerical rank act like it'll have any final effect on their purchase. It'll be an extremely small gesture, but not buying the game would be the best way to show your disapproval for the changes. Buying the game regardless of what's in it accomplishes nothing.
It's possible to disapprove of things within a product's suite of features and still enjoy the product as a whole, on balance. It is in no way hypocritical to complain about perceived shortcomings of Halo 4 while also buying and frequently playing Halo 4, and the very presence of developers on this forum suggests that there are better and more direct channels for expressing disapproval of particular choices made by those developers than a classic boycott.

You seem to ignore Slayer Pro as being an option for competitive players so you can argue that not having visual ranks indicates the "cold truth" about competitive Halo. Can I ask as to why a visual system (note: Not the underlying matchmaking systems that determie how evenly mathed the teams are) takes precedence over the very settings that aren't far from a perfect competitive playlist?
Firstly, it doesn't have to "take precedence"; these things are not incompatible. You can have a competitive playlist and have a visible ranking system. so I'm not even sure what you're suggesting.

But since you (sort of) asked, here are some of the reasons I would have liked a visible ranking system:

1. Context. Visible ranks help contextualize my play, and the play of my friends and enemies, such that I can understand -- roughly, with obvious limitations -- "how good" I am relative to those friends and enemies, and the wider ecosystem of Halo players. This helps me feel I am part of a large community of players competing in the 'sport' of Halo, and gives me a sense of how I am doing, how my friends are doing, and how we are improving, within that community of players.

2. Narrative. Visible ranks tell stories. They tell me I was good last month, but did even better this month. They tell me that I got better than the friend who used to school me at the game. They tell me I overcame an obstacle, or met a personal goal. They tell me that I pushed past a previous limit, or that I finally outpaced my peers. They tell me that I got better -- or that I got worse. They ground my Halo experience across a given game's lifespan, such that I can see not just that I was playing Halo for the last year of my life, but that across that time I was continuing to play Halo better, more skillfully, more beautifully than ever before.

3. Motivation. Ranks give me one more reason to play "one more game", because there's something to be earned, and that thing is earned through my own performance, not the sheer time I have spent playing. They give me a measure, however crude, of that performance, and meanwhile goad me to do better, to learn the game's systems more thoroughly, to improve myself. Related to the 'storytelling' aspect above, ranks also set up underdog battles, where every last one of my party grits their teeth and digs in because the pregame lobby told us we were outmatched. Those victories are sweeter than any other. Unanticipated defeats, on the other hand, are both humbling and inspiring.

4. Stakes. Ranks go up when you win, sure, but they also go down when you lose. Nothing in Halo 4 will ever go down. Not one thing. Not one thing will tell me I am not meeting expectations. And nothing will ever be lost. Once I unlock something, once I hit a target, it's mine forever. There is no risk in this, and so there is no genuine reward, or at least no scarcity of reward. Ranks, on the other hand, raise the stakes on every single game. There are days I wouldn't go into TS in Halo 3 because I was worried I might lose my 45 (hint: I'm not even that good, not that 'competitive', but I still love ranks). When I did go in, I took it seriously: I played the game as well as I could, and found teammates and enemies doing the same. Every game mattered, because losing mattered -- because losing had a cost. In Halo 4, I will be showered with announcements, medals, white text, XP, commendations, challenges, armour unlocks, weapon skins, and general praise almost to the point of suffocation. Not once, however, will the game dare to tell me I should have done better. Not once will it punish me for that failure. In sport, when everyone's a winner, no one is.
 

MrDaravon

Member
^ Bookmarking for future reference. Shake always puts things so much more eloquently than I can <3

On the stream: Weapon sounds are fantastic, but do they seem super loud to anyone else? Can't tell if it's just the stream or what.

Also I've changed my mind about the announcer, his flag announcements are seriously cracking me up. Probably not intentional, but it's actually got me laughing out loud.
 

Arnie

Member
But it impacts long term revenue (DLC)

I bought all maps for halo 2 and halo 3

I don't believe I own all the reach ones

Of course, I didn't buy all the Reach packs (I think I only bought the first), and I anticipate a similar scenario for 4. Obviously I don't know the profit breakdowns to understand how viable it is for 343 to rely on a certain core of long term players and purchasers than it is to chase a greater mass that still has some DLC buyers.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
dopey, are you still on my friends list from the halo 2 days? if not add me - i need some (grizzled ancient) gaffers to play with
 

JuanGGZ

Banned
Say what? You're marked for death, can't run, and have a pistol that's just not as shitty as it regularly is. That's far from powerful.

I was saying that because he wasn't dead after a full shot from BR, he was fast and can defend himself with his magnum. This one attacks the opposing team with his magnum because he seems to be more powerful with this weapon.

Being the flag carrier seems to be fun, I was thinking it will be boring before.
 

Arnie

Member
It's possible to disapprove of things within a product's suite of features and still enjoy the product as a whole, on balance. It is in no way hypocritical to complain about perceived shortcomings of Halo 4 while also buying and frequently playing Halo 4, and the very presence of developers on this forum suggests that there are better and more direct channels for expressing disapproval of particular choices made by those developers than a classic boycott.


Firstly, it doesn't have to "take precedence"; these things are not incompatible. You can have a competitive playlist and have a visible ranking system. so I'm not even sure what you're suggesting.

But since you (sort of) asked, here are some of the reasons I would have liked a visible ranking system:

1. Context. Visible ranks help contextualize my play, and the play of my friends and enemies, such that I can understand -- roughly, with obvious limitations -- "how good" I am relative to those friends and enemies, and the wider ecosystem of Halo players. This helps me feel I am part of a large community of players competing in the 'sport' of Halo, and gives me a sense of how I am doing, how my friends are doing, and how we are improving, within that community of players.

2. Narrative. Visible ranks tell stories. They tell me I was good last month, but did even better this month. They tell me that I got better than the friend who used to school me at the game. They tell me I overcame an obstacle, or met a personal goal. They tell me that I pushed past a previous limit, or that I finally outpaced my peers. They tell me that I got better -- or that I got worse. They ground my Halo experience across a given game's lifespan, such that I can see not just that I was playing Halo for the last year of my life, but that across that time I was continuing to play Halo better, more skillfully, more beautifully than ever before.

3. Motivation. Ranks give me one more reason to play "one more game", because there's something to be earned, and that thing is earned through my own performance, not the sheer time I have spent playing. They give me a measure, however crude, of that performance, and meanwhile goad me to do better, to learn the game's systems more thoroughly, to improve myself. Related to the 'storytelling' aspect above, ranks also set up underdog battles, where every last one of my party grits their teeth and digs in because the pregame lobby told us we were outmatched. Those victories are sweeter than any other. Unanticipated defeats, on the other hand, are both humbling and inspiring.

4. Stakes. Ranks go up when you win, sure, but they also go down when you lose. Nothing in Halo 4 will ever go down. Not one thing. Not one thing will tell me I am not meeting expectations. And nothing will ever be lost. Once I unlock something, once I hit a target, it's mine forever. There is no risk in this, and so there is no genuine reward, or at least no scarcity of reward. Ranks, on the other hand, raise the stakes on every single game. There are days I wouldn't go into TS in Halo 3 because I was worried I might lose my 45 (hint: I'm not even that good, not that 'competitive', but I still love ranks). When I did go in, I took it seriously: I played the game as well as I could, and found teammates and enemies doing the same. Every game mattered, because losing mattered -- because losing had a cost. In Halo 4, I will be showered with announcements, medals, white text, XP, commendations, challenges, armour unlocks, weapon skins, and general praise almost to the point of suffocation. Not once, however, will the game dare to tell me I should have done better. Not once will it punish me for that failure. In sport, when everyone's a winner, no one is.

This entire post is like book two of The Dark Tower where Roland possesses the mind of another but is able to control their thoughts whilst importing in his own commendable skill set.

Effectively you've hijacked my feelings and laid them out neater than I ever could. Bravo.
 

Noricart

Member
I think we've expressed our discontent enough. Maybe the devs will pull a Blizzard and do a revision.

The funny thing is how everybody complaining about the lack of a numerical rank act like it'll have any final effect on their purchase. It'll be an extremely small gesture, but not buying the game would be the best way to show your disapproval for the changes. Buying the game regardless of what's in it accomplishes nothing.

I remember you! You came in the junior wave after mine and did a summary in a bunch of threads... till they told you buzz off.

Edit: the funny thing about the Blizzard scenario is that I could be referring to more than one thing.
awesome mantis hijack there
I got to admit, this looks pretty damn fun.
burnsexcellent.jpg
 
I was saying that because he wasn't dead after a full shot from BR, he was fast and can defend himself with his magnum. This one attacks the opposing team with his magnum because he seems to be more powerful with this weapon.

Being the flag carrier seems to be fun, I was thinking it will be boring before.
But you could accomplish the exact same thing with the old system. When you dropped the flag you had your pick of whatever weapon you wanted to defend with, and then going back to flag duty meant you could then choose if you wanted to juggle and be speedy but alert the enemy to your presence, or carry it regularly in relative stealth. All this new system does is reduce options.
 
lol talk about killing hype. I know i will play Halo 4 more than I did reach because it just looks more fun. Also since everything is so much faster except kill times,I should enjoy this. However the lack of rank will affect my dedication to the game. I hardly played any custom games with my friends. We did it all the time in Halo 3 just to improve our BR and just have fun. I don't even think we did it once in Reach. I have no reason to practice.

I hope 343 realize they should do something. Even if it a day 1 or even a month later patch. I want a goal to work towards to. It should be like halo 2 or Halo 3 ranking system. If this is never done no matter how much fun Halo 4 is it will lose popularity quickly.

It is sad Halo 4 is shaping up to be an amazing title. but lack of rank and a couple other miscues is really hurting this title. I know I will have fun initially, but the question is for how long since I have nothing to look forward too. I don't care about armor never did never will.
 

MrDaravon

Member
This livestream is confirming that auto flag pickup and marking the flag carrier for the entire enemy team was the stupidest idea ever conceived. Once their flag was stolen, everyone converged on him, and from the viewpoint of the player he immediately homed in on the guy, even though he had literally no idea where the guy was until it marked it for him on the HUD. So incredibly fucking stupid, and confirms that I will not touch CTF.

"Brony Clop" lol
 

Arnie

Member
Maybe the devs will pull a Blizzard and do a revision.

They won't, and I wouldn't expect them to.

Three years ago, somewhere in Washington, a meeting took place which outlined the multiplayer ensemble for Halo 4. A greater or even sustained amount of attention to the competitive portion of Halo wasn't included, and was in fact eschewed for a diametrically opposed philosophy that's long become the norm for the genre; and we have to accept that, even if we can't respect it.
 
It's possible to disapprove of things within a product's suite of features and still enjoy the product as a whole, on balance. It is in no way hypocritical to complain about perceived shortcomings of Halo 4 while also buying and frequently playing Halo 4, and the very presence of developers on this forum suggests that there are better and more direct channels for expressing disapproval of particular choices made by those developers than a classic boycott.


Firstly, it doesn't have to "take precedence"; these things are not incompatible. You can have a competitive playlist and have a visible ranking system. so I'm not even sure what you're suggesting.

But since you (sort of) asked, here are some of the reasons I would have liked a visible ranking system:

1. Context.

2. Narrative.

3. Motivation.

4. Stakes.


I've said it before, but you're great at expressing opinions we share.
 

Conor 419

Banned
Oh well boo fucking hoo. While you've all been pissing around in King's Landing fighting for your shitty ranking system, I've been Jon Snow up at the wall waiting for a Custom Game Browser which still hasn't been sent up and the launch of Halo 4 (winter) is quite literally right around the corner.

Mark my words, in 6 months time you'll all realise you were fighting the wrong battle, but by that time we'll be fucked anyway so whatever.
 
I think we've expressed our discontent enough. Maybe the devs will pull a Blizzard and do a revision.
Blizzard are PC devs, and also their own publishers, so they've got a lot more freedom with what they can do after launch. 343 have to negotiate with Microsoft and the restrictions and requirements of the 360 platform, so they haven't got that same freedom.
 

Noricart

Member
Blizzard are PC devs, and also their own publishers, so they've got a lot more freedom with what they can do after launch. 343 have to negotiate with Microsoft and the restrictions and requirements of the 360 platform, so they haven't got that same freedom.

I was referring to Starcraft's whole "It's Warcraft in space!" scenario.
 
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