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[ByWatterson]

But people use the emoji when you suggest higher prices.

Prices have to go up, period.

 

[Montauk]

Cause most corpos are stupid and don't know how game dev work. Far too many think you can solve stuff by just throwing people at the problem.

Sure, Jan.

(Imagine actually believing this)

 

[LiquidMetal14]

People shouldn't wonder about layoffs when the industry has costs

And the world economy is all getting more expensive

 

[Guilty_AI]

Sure, Jan.

(Imagine actually believing this)

Imagine believing corpos actually know what they're doing.

 

[Tajaz2426]

But people use the emoji when you suggest higher prices.

Prices have to go up, period.

Sure and a lot of folks will be done gaming, others will wait for deeper sales, some will pay. No one with this inflation and the costs of electric, higher premiums, natural gas, oil, will just be ok paying higher prices.

I don’t love anything enough to pay over what I believe it’s worth. I won’t even help my wife pay for her car because she wanted a BMW. Nothing for her car comes out of my account, not even her insurance. I don’t pay for names or brands.

If you want o just give a company your money when they are making plenty and still laying off, that is up to you. I don’t owe them anything. There is plenty to do in life with hobbies other than paying ridiculous prices for the same 10 minute loop in every game. Main quest says go here fight and hear story, side quest look for this, investigate that, go to three places then return, no thanks.

These companies have done it to themselves and I won’t help bail them out with higher prices.

Edit: hopefully it collapses because I’m tired of seeing micro transactions that cost half the game and sometimes more. I’d be more than
Pleased for it to go away at this point.

 

[mckmas8808]

I personally don't mind smaller games. In fact I think games need to have their scope reduced to balance their budgets.

This me and you can 100% agree on.

But people use the emoji when you suggest higher prices.

Prices have to go up, period.

But then you'll sell less games and those same employees will still be laid off. People.................we have too many people working on games. THERE ARE TOO MANY GAMES BEING MADE! And they are too long!

 

[ByWatterson]

But then you'll sell less games and those same employees will still be laid off. People.................we have too many people working on games. THERE ARE TOO MANY GAMES BEING MADE! And they are too long!

AI is going to save this industry.

Sorta not kidding.

 

[AngelMuffin]

And the gaming market is more than 10 times larger than what it was in the 90s.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Well then reduce development costs by being more efficient. Don't tell it can't be done. There are many games out there which give aaa like experience for a fraction of budget of some of these big franchise bloated games. Making movies and games have become ridiculously expensive because of the inefficiency and huge bonuses and salaries of the top management who know nothing about making movies or games.

Damn youre a genius. No one in the gaming industry ever thought of this. You should have a seminar for all the publishers and show them how to make games that have reduced costs and risks and still make the same amount of money.

 

[Jesb]

But who asked for games to become these huge budgets. Gaming was completely fine with its AA and Indie games. As well as AAA that costs less than 100M, We didn’t need these ridiculous budgets.

 

[mckmas8808]

AI is going to save this industry.

Sorta not kidding.

I hope it does in a smart and fair way.

But who asked for games to become these huge budgets. Gaming was completely fine with its AA and Indie games. As well as AAA that costs less than 100M, We didn’t need these ridiculous budgets.

The ridiculous budget games were always going to happen and it's necessary. The problem is, too many games are trying to be the $200+ million game. You'll see when GTA6 drops how necessary huge budget games are. Spiderman 2 has already shown us why games that cost that much are needed.

 

[BabyfaceRe]

There's no gaslighting. You're just failing to understand a few things, or not acknowledging them. I think you've only half thought this through.

Firstly, I bet you haven't done any comparative analysis on the balance sheets of the 90s versus now. Whatever the numbers are, I can guarantee you that if you really inspect them, profits made today are more reliant on things other than just selling the game as compared to back then. People were actually paying way more for games back then, not just adjusted for inflation. Yes, the audience was smaller, and that problem was somewhat solved with the boost in the number of gamers (which was a direct result of the increased budgets and technological advances in the medium - no matter how much people pretend like tech, graphics and visuals don't matter now), but that number is not growing like it used to and getting outpaced by the amount of time, money and effort that goes into this stuff.

Which leads into the second point: If you were making a game in the 90s or 2000s, the project generally lasted 2-3 years max with tens of people at most. If you make a 10 million dollar profit, especially in 2000s money, that's golden.

As you know, that's not the case today. There is so much more money, so much more time, and so much more at risk when embarking on the production of a major game today. And Harada is talking from a fighting game perspective, a genre that's stayed about the same in scope for most of 30 years at this point. Do I need to get into the 5-7 year productions that most major, non-annual titles have to go through now? The thousands that have a direct hand in the game's production over those years?

So if you make 30 million dollars on a 200-300 million dollar investment over 6 years of medium-high intensity development, it's almost not worth it. The profit motive is not as present, especially since you're on the hook for a loss just as high or much bigger if just a few things go wrong.

I would've thought more people understood this post Insomniac

There's no gaslighting. You're just failing to understand a few things, or not acknowledging them. I think you've only half thought this through.

Firstly, I bet you haven't done any comparative analysis on the balance sheets of the 90s versus now. Whatever the numbers are, I can guarantee you that if you really inspect them, profits made today are more reliant on things other than just selling the game as compared to back then. People were actually paying way more for games back then, not just adjusted for inflation. Yes, the audience was smaller, and that problem was somewhat solved with the boost in the number of gamers (which was a direct result of the increased budgets and technological advances in the medium - no matter how much people pretend like tech, graphics and visuals don't matter now), but that number is not growing like it used to and getting outpaced by the amount of time, money and effort that goes into this stuff.

Which leads into the second point: If you were making a game in the 90s or 2000s, the project generally lasted 2-3 years max with tens of people at most. If you make a 10 million dollar profit, especially in 2000s money, that's golden.

As you know, that's not the case today. There is so much more money, so much more time, and so much more at risk when embarking on the production of a major game today. And Harada is talking from a fighting game perspective, a genre that's stayed about the same in scope for most of 30 years at this point. Do I need to get into the 5-7 year productions that most major, non-annual titles have to go through now? The thousands that have a direct hand in the game's production over those years?

So if you make 30 million dollars on a 200-300 million dollar investment over 6 years of medium-high intensity development, it's almost not worth it. The profit motive is not as present, especially since you're on the hook for a loss just as high or much bigger if just a few things go wrong.

I would've thought more people understood this post Insomniac leak.

From the 90s, no, that's unnecessary as the sheer existence of Bandai Namco is proof they have profited well through the decades. But coz you need number, from 2006 to 2023 Bandai Namco DOUBLED it's profits from 1.3bn to 2.7bn. That should be end of discussion with regards to profit, but let me continue.

"Games cost more back then coz inflation" wrong. Because wages have not risen inline with inflation it means that things like games are the same relatively speaking, I.e. they still soak up the same percentage of income. That's a neat trick to pretend ppl are richer now but the reality that is untrue.

Ofcourse I never mentioned mtx because that's a given. 90s would be a one and done, now devs/pubs expect to make more from mtx than actual sales, which is supported by the figures. Games of changed from one and done to a continuous source of income for years, this is an ENOURMOUS change that benefits pubs massively.

Finally, your point about studios size and dev budget, I already covered but you overlooked. 200 million budget is a choice, 1000s of devs in1 studio is a choice. Fact. End of discussion. Again this is not just proven by the fact that mass lay offs are happening right now without studios going under (seems there was always some fat to trim) but also that FromSoft exist, along with MANY other devs who don't need 1000s of ppl to make an average game.

You're just explains what they are doing then giving them a free pass, instead of addressing that what they are doing is wrong. Your arguement is essentially "because they spent X over X time, then they must make X return". Instead of discussion the solution which is to spend significantly less than X, therefore requiring a much smaller return.

I don't see how white knighting for devs spending absurd money (plus myx, plus battle pass, plus dlc) is considered thoughtful. Its wrong and the numbers bare out.

If you have actual proof of large devs/pubs making the same profit from the 90s to today then post it. All I see is a pattern of absurd growth from almost all of the big boys.

 

[YCoCg]

Tekken 8 didn't get an arcade release so people are forgetting that they've already lost out on that revenue stream which is still popular in Japan, South Korea, etc.

Tekken 8 also contains more content than Tekken 7, it also has full CGI cutscenes for characters endings again, remodeled characters that bring them to near CGI levels compared to the messed up look most had in Tekken 7 and much more.

People mentioning past games seem to also forget that Tekken 6 sold just OK and that Tekken Tag 2 sadly bombed. Tekken 7 was the first major profitable title in a long time for them and Tekken 8 has only just beat opening sales, not overall profits.

 

[Hudo]

Tekken 8 vs Street Fighter 6. Which game has the best boob and ass physics?

 

[Damien Crowley]

Tekken 8 didn't get an arcade release so people are forgetting that they've already lost out on that revenue stream which is still popular in Japan, South Korea, etc.

Tekken 8 also contains more content than Tekken 7, it also has full CGI cutscenes for characters endings again, remodeled characters that bring them to near CGI levels compared to the messed up look most had in Tekken 7 and much more.

People mentioning past games seem to also forget that Tekken 6 sold just OK and that Tekken Tag 2 sadly bombed. Tekken 7 was the first major profitable title in a long time for them and Tekken 8 has only just beat opening sales, not overall profits.

Boohoohoo... More content? Where? The completely senseless avatar-bullshit? The recycled Tekken 7 costumes? CGI cutscenes as an excuse for predatory practices? WTF?

When they patched in the stupid in-game-store, they didn't even realize the promised exit-button on the main screen. The simplest of motherloving things.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the game, but its flaws (audio is also still completely fucked) and the stances of Harada and Bamco would be laughable, if they weren't so assholey...

 

[YCoCg]

Boohoohoo... More content? Where? The completely senseless avatar-bullshit? The recycled Tekken 7 costumes? CGI cutscenes as an excuse for predatory practices? WTF?

Do you not remember how little content Tekken 7 had at launch? The same game that charged for frame data in practice mode as DLC a year or so later.

 

[Pagusas]

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd be fully fine if they'd raise the base price of games to $99, its crazy that games are basically the same (if not cheaper thanks to inflation) than they were in the 90s. I still remember saving up $70 for SFII SNES on release and I think Primal Rage cost me $80.

Edit just looked it up, A $70 game in 1993 is equivalent to $149.41 today. AKA games are ridiculously cheap for the entertainment they provide. Its crazy they are still under $100. Even the cheaper $49.99 PSone releases today would be $106.72

 

[64bitmodels]

Then make more single player focused and or single player only games with robust mod support, no need server upkeep and modders help devs to do most of the long term support.

Tekken isn't exactly known for being singleplayer

 

[Damien Crowley]

Do you not remember how little content Tekken 7 had at launch? The same game that charged for frame data in practice mode as DLC a year or so later.

The ONE Thing T8 has over T7 content wise is Tekken Ball and you know it.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Said by people who have never written a single line of code before in their lives.

It's even worse IMO. Many of those said they don't want/need/have to understand any of development. Even not a basic interest of knowing how things they like are made.