Support NeoGAF

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Which is usually said by people who refuse to sit down with said hateful, insensitive, ignorant, racist and/or homophobic dickwads and initiate a dialogue but instead prefer to outright shun them and pretend they don't exist, fuelling their hateful beliefs and views instead of trying to constructively talk with them about it.

A lot of people don't have the luxury of pretending those people don't exist.

 

[partyphone]

Short answer: no

Long answer: Who the fuck cares? Or do you need another reason to blame the SJW's for everything under the sun?

yuuuuup!

when someone says they're anti-pc what they mean is they want to say shitty awful things without any consequences.

considering the demographics of GAF(young, white, male) it's not surprising that so many people see political correctness as a real problem.

Boohoo I can't make my dumb racist joke without someone telling me I'm racist. : (

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Doxxing?

The KKK thing? That wasn't "PC society" that was fucking idiots on anonymous. Please provide some real examples to back up your post.

Actually through googling, I've found an article about how a rape victim was doxxed. Jesus christ.

 

[JCX]

If the only solid defense of your argument is "america is just too PC!" then your argument is weak.

 

[iMax]

The KKK thing? That wasn't "PC society" that was fucking idiots on anonymous. Please provide some real examples to back up your post.

Oh yeah I know, but it still happens at the end of the day and can affect innocent people who may be family members/mistaken identities etc.

 

[Inferno313]

Yes. Totally.

I tell someone "Happy Holidays" and they're all "GAH, FUCK YOU! IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS!"

Try to tell someone "Black Lives Matter" and they get all "ALL LIVES MATTER."

Wanna post something about feminism on twitter? Gotta fight through swaths of "#NotAllMen"

Spoiler

lol

 

[excelsiorlef]

it's not jsut the minorities that arguing with racist people though. it's the socially progressive (us) in general that should be debating these opinions to stop this behaviour. You will never change people's minds by "othering" them and shutting them out altogether.

Remarkable that you'd invoke the concept of the "other" but apply it to unoppressed bigots.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Anybody that actually thinks American society has become politically correct hasn't been paying attention to anything besides South Park and their own confirmation bias.

I'd really like to hear about all the negative impacts that political correctness has had over the years. The lives lost, the freedoms given away, all of the destruction of property.

 

[diablos991]

The answer is a resounding yes imo.

 

[Silver Arrows]

yuuuuup!

when someone says they're anti-pc what they mean is they want to say shitty awful things without any consequences.

considering the demographics of GAF(young, white, male) it's not surprising that so many people see political correctness as a real problem.

Boohoo I can't make my dumb racist joke without someone telling me I'm racist. : (

Ding ding ding. That's really all this thread is, a dog whistle for junior Gamergate types to lament the fact they can't be a fuckhead without repercussions.

 

[Nozem]

South Park is still on, so we're ok.

 

[iMax]

Anybody that actually thinks American society has become politically correct hasn't been paying attention to anything besides South Park and their own confirmation bias.

I'd really like to hear about all the negative impacts that political correctness has had over the years. The lives lost, the freedoms given away, all of the destruction of property.

Because it's diluted the ability for people to have meaningful, respectful discussions between parties to resolve these issues.

Just calling people bigots doesn't really achieve anything and isn't going to change their stance on things.

 

[post-S]

yuuuuup!

when someone says they're anti-pc what they mean is they want to say shitty awful things without any consequences.
considering the demographics of GAF(young, white, male) it's not surprising that so many people see political correctness as a real problem.

I can't make my dumb racist joke without someone telling me I'm racist. : (

You are just racist.

Spoiler

this is why PC is becoming a problem, you can't have a proper discussion without people tagging you mindlessly

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Oh yeah I know, but it still happens at the end of the day and can affect innocent people who may be family members/mistaken identities etc.

That's not a by-product of "PC society". I could argue it's the exact opposite as it has been used against vocal opponents of Gamergate and the like.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Because it's diluted the ability for people to have meaningful, respectful discussions between parties to resolve these issues.

Just calling people bigots doesn't really achieve anything and isn't going to change their stance on things.

Dude people can't even say white privilege without people freaking the fuck out.

 

[iMax]

That's not a by-product of "PC society". I could argue it's the exact opposite as it has been used against vocal opponents of Gamergate and the like.

It's a by-product of internet culture, just as this new breed of extreme political correctness some have mentioned is.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Yes for sure. In particular it has gotten really bad the last two years. Even worse is the growing number of young people that outright refuse to hear an opinion they dont like.

 

[iMax]

Dude people can't even say white privilege without people freaking the fuck out.

And quite rightly. Calling people out and flash-labelling them into little categories doesn't achieve anything except anger people. This inflammatory line of discourse I see far too often online isn't a sustainable track to resolving these problems.

 

[Davidion]

There are instances where political correctness threaten discourse and learning; I think that's a genuine thing to be concerned about. We should be weary of the fact that even righteous actions can be taken too far.

On the other hand, most people I see complaining about it are just privileged little twits or flat out bigots who just can't bear the difficulty of having someone else push back against their piece-of-shit opinions/complete oliviousness/empathy to the problems of anyone remotely not like them, so maybe a little more political correctness is needed after all.

 

[NIGHT-]

Dude people can't even say white privilege without people freaking the fuck out.

The whole "white privilege" label needs to go. It only causes anger in people and solves nothing

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I'm sure some people find it extremely frustrating that they can't call certain races names their grandpappy could say to his old, hollow hearts content.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

And quite rightly. Calling people out and flash-labelling them into little categories doesn't achieve anything except anger people. This inflammatory line of discourse I see far too often online isn't a sustainable track to resolving these problems.

You don't know what white privilege is. It's not inflammatory, it's not disparaging, it's not insulting. It's a result of western culture and it's bias towards Europeans.

 

[partyphone]

You are just racist.

Spoiler

this is why PC is becoming a problem, you can't have a proper discussion without people tagging you mindlessly

how am I a racist?

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

When could people take a joke? You realize Lenny Bruce was arrested for cursing in 1961 right? Today, you can curse all day on a comedy stage and people don't care. In fact most comedy clubs are a-ok with all material because they understand the context.

Are you talking about every day life where non-comedians tell jokes to each other? Because telling a joke is actually very involved and there's a reason most comics take a decade or so to become successful. Jokes are hard to tell and the often require a very specific delivery. If you tell a Louis CK joke to your friends and co-workers who aren't familiar with it, it's probably not going to go over well.

What an awful example. Most comedians complain about people complaining nowadays more than usual. Other times due to technology recording someone and then people who never listened to said comedians throw a tantrum after the video is out.

But who knows, maybe Vistra on gaf here knows more than Dane Cook and Bill Burr.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Because it's diluted the ability for people to have meaningful, respectful discussions between parties to resolve these issues.

Just calling people bigots doesn't really achieve anything and isn't going to change their stance on things.

You'r assuming that tolerating the intolerant individuals and reaching out to them would (a) actually work and (b) that it hasn't or isn't being done. Remember that people double down on held beliefs when confronted with opposing evidence.

It's also a little much to expect hateful opinions to not be called out as such, and to even ask for respect for it is laughable. If someone thinks I'm 3/5s of a person (or less) because of my skin color, sexual orientation, or gender identity, why should I respect them and talk to them? Why is that onus on me to suffer for the incredibly small chance to enlighten one individual?

 

[ldcommando]

maybe

 

[sikkinixx]

We seem to value what people yell about on the internet as though it actually has the same weight as someone making an actual argument. How many people who jump and scream online about supporting trigger warnings or whatever have actually done anything at all in their actual life to support that cause? Or was it just a way to wash in with the internet rage-tide? Like getting mad at people and telling them they are monsters for owning a gun like many did the San Bernardino thread is going to do anything but make people defensive and even MORE likely to stick with their original view.

Personally, I feel like I can't post an opinion about anything without making sure I've added a paragraph of qualifiers and pre-apologized if my thoughts upset people so I generally try to avoid it. In most actual situations, if you are chatting about something controversial both sides are fairly restrained and don't result to "ugh you fucking people are disgusting" but for some reason even a place like GAF that advocates being a"neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful moderation" people still act like total pricks to one another.

 

[iMax]

You don't know what white privilege is. It's not inflammatory, it's not disparaging, it's not insulting. It's a result of western culture and it's bias towards Europeans.

This is just proving my first point in this thread. How is this constructive in any way? Can you see why it may cause inflammatory responses?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

This is just proving my first point in this thread. How is this constructive in any way? Can you see why it may cause inflammatory responses?

Pointing out the reality of things isn't constructive?

 

[King Tubby]

The problem isn't society becoming politically correct. The problem is society becoming more and more polarized and insular. Everyone takes on an us vs. them mentality, petty semantic issues have become dogma. People react to minor grievances by going in the opposite extreme.

 

[injurai]

Yes, but its not easy to explain.
Conservatives tend to often be the victim of "political correctness" when its convenient for them, but are often quick to outrage when it doesn't fit their narrative or ideology.

Liberals tend to use political correctness to end discussion, often by calling people names, and trying to discredit their character, rather then their ideas.

It's not black and white.
Wearing blackface is wrong, not PC.
Redskin is wrong not PC.
Saying oriental however is perfectly fine for me, people getting offended would be PC.

Though when it comes to feminism, things have gotten incredible out of hand, you can't make a website anymore without having like a dozen sexual orientions and genders.

And the Internet has become a sick place where everyone has a thirst for blood. Too many internet vigilantes ruining people's lives often over false pretenses, or misinformation by doxxing them.

This is one of the better explanations I've seen on the current situation. Not that any of this is new, but the self-awareness, frustration, participation, and fervor has all changed with the internet.

 

[partyphone]

This is just proving my first point in this thread. How is this constructive in any way? Can you see why it may cause inflammatory responses?

it causes inflammatory responses because people either don't know what it means or purposefully misconstrue it's meaning in order to be outraged.

which is HI-larious considering this thread was started to complain about people being too easily offended and outraged.

 

[iMax]

You'r assuming that tolerating the intolerant individuals and reaching out to them would (a) actually work and (b) that it hasn't or isn't being done. Remember that people double down on held beliefs when confronted with opposing evidence.

Safe spaces?

It's also a little much to expect hateful opinions to not be called out as such, and to even ask for respect for it is laughable. If someone thinks I'm 3/5s of a person (or less) because of my skin color, sexual orientation, or gender identity, why should I respect them and talk to them? Why is that onus on me to suffer for the incredibly small chance to enlighten one individual?

I'm just saying debate and discussion should be respectful and not just shit-slinging from both sides. If you try and look at it from the other person's perspective, they're much less likely to listen if that's all they hear.

The only other solution is just to wait for the older generation to die out to solve these problems. I personally don't think this works because I don't think these issues have been shown to be only associated with older people. Either way, it's not exactly fast enough for those being marginalised.

 

[iMax]

it causes inflammatory responses because people either don't know what it means or purposefully misconstrue it's meaning in order to be outraged.

which is HI-larious considering this thread was started to complain about people being too easily offended and outraged.

Exactly.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Pointing out the reality of things isn't constructive?

exactly.

 

[Damaniel]

With one tiny exception I can think of, no. 'Too PC' is angry privileged white person code for 'I'm mad that I can't use <insert racial slur here> or tell a disparaging joke against <insert marginalized group here> in public'.

The only exception is related to one specific website I occasionally go to: Daily Kos. Often you'll find a post in a thread where someone will try to find one or two words in a post, that when run through a verbal blender and explained in a three or four paragraph screed, might be - just possibly - mildly offensive if you squint. Israel/Palestine threads are notorious for this - sometimes it seems like saying something as innocent as 'I like cats' can be spun around to be anti-Semitic. It gets to the point where people posting there have to be super careful to avoid the 'not-PC' label.

 

[excelsiorlef]

And quite rightly. Calling people out and flash-labelling them into little categories doesn't achieve anything except anger people. This inflammatory line of discourse I see far too often online isn't a sustainable track to resolving these problems.

Dude it's not labeling anything. It's about fundamentally acknowledging we live in a society where being white gives you opportunities that being a minority doesn’t.

Mention that though and it's not all white people. We can't even talk about surface level issues without folks dismissing fucking reality.

 

[iMax]

Pointing out the reality of things isn't constructive?

It isn't when it's used inappropriately just to discount someone's point of view.

 

[BokehKing]

yuuuuup!

when someone says they're anti-pc what they mean is they want to say shitty awful things without any consequences.

considering the demographics of GAF(young, white, male) it's not surprising that so many people see political correctness as a real problem.

Boohoo I can't make my dumb racist joke without someone telling me I'm racist. : (

Why does it always have to be about racist? I hate PC stuff because it causes companies to play things too safe in fear that someone like yourself will twist it into something it's not and affect their stock

 

[Duane Cunningham]

While I think there are some battles fought that could be chosen more wisely, on the whole I'd rather hear someone's opinion than not hear it.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

Yes and no.
It seems like the people that are extremely PC, like crazy, are too pc. But that is kinda with everything there will be people to take it to an extreme.
Past that no.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

This is just proving my first point in this thread. How is this constructive in any way? Can you see why it may cause inflammatory responses?

It isn't when it's used inappropriately just to discount someone's point of view.

I'm not discounting your opinion, I simply pointed out where "white privilege" comes from. I really don't see how that is inflammatory or discounting your opinion.

How is it not constructive to point out where white privilege comes from, when you have displayed a clear unknowing of the meaning of the term?

 

[partyphone]

Why does it always have to be about racist? I hate PC stuff because it causes companies to play things too safe in fear that someone like yourself will twist it into something it's not and affect their stock

that was an example. there are a lot of shitty things you can say that people will rightfully push back on.

do you have any examples of the kind of thing you're talking about?

 

[Astral/H3X]

I wouldn't say I'm against us being "too PC" so much as I am against this outrage culture. People need to chill the fuck out, instead of exploding over every single thing. *IF* someone says something that isn't PC enough for you, just kinda mention it, and let that be it. Don't attack the person over it. If Corporation A decides that it doesn't want to exclusively cater to your religious preference, then don't launch a fucking war on them for it. Stuff like this.

So I guess it's less of a "Being too PC" issue and more of a "stop being quite so sensitive" thing.

Oh, also, if you use being PC to shut down a discussion, then fuck you.

 

[Platy]

I never understood the term... is defending trans rights being Politicaly Correct ? Because POLITICALY it is CORRECT to fire people just for being trans in most states in the united states. Most countries have LAWS (which are made by those politicaly people) that transness is a DISEASE.

There are lots of examples like these that basicaly show that actualy what is politicaly correct is actualy to be sexist, transphobic, homophobic, classicist and racist =P

The whole "white privilege" label needs to go. It only causes anger in people and solves nothing

Maybe we should examine WHY it causes anger in people ...

 

[BokehKing]

that was an example. there are a lot of shitty things you can say that people will rightfully push back on.

do you have any examples of the kind of thing you're talking about?

I probably do, and if I was ignorant I would walk right into that trap you're laying for me


I'll walk in with a point to be made and some how, some way I'll be labeled as a racist or part of the problem in America. Yet I'm
A liberal and get behind all things that require people to have their due rights, some people just take this PC stuff way too far


Remember last year when people got mad about white Christmas being sung at a tree lighting in NYC? To me, that was insane
A song that has nothing to do with being white at all
Yet Eric a Garner protesters still got mad

 

[iMax]

Dude it's not labeling anything. It's about fundamentally acknowledging we live in a society where being white gives you opportunities that being a minority doesn’t.

Mention that though and it's not all white people. We can't even talk about surface level issues without folks dismissing fucking reality.

Yeah, but it's used plenty online completely differently as a vehicle just to stifle discussion and ultimately results in the other party losing their shit because there's no logical chain of discourse leading to it.

If it's contextualised properly and described, there's no issue at all. Just throwing a "but white privelege" out there doesn't achieve anything of use.

I know my point may seem minor or irrelevant to some but constructed debate, argument, and criticism is the only way to solve these problems. Inflammatory shitposting does not because other parties will simply switch off and fire back.

 

[rhodo]

I think an issue with the term PC is how broadly it is used. People use it to combat racism/sexism/homophobia and the works, but others use it to justify their outrages over frankly insignificant occurrences. This leads to people having different views on PC culture is and what politically correct actually means.

 

[iMax]

I'm not discounting your opinion, I simply pointed out where "white privilege" comes from. I really don't see how that is inflammatory or discounting your opinion.

How is it not constructive to point out where white privilege comes from, when you have displayed a clear unknowing of the meaning of the term?

Where have I said you're discounting my opinion and how have you come to the position that I don't know the meaning of the term? I'm talking purely academically and I'm not talking about you.

I know what white privilege is. My point is about the way it's being used as a basis for argument, not about what it actually is.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Where have I said you're discounting my opinion and how have you come to the position that I don't know the meaning of the term? I'm talking purely academically and I'm not talking about you.

Your response to Miles Quaritch, my apologies as I inferred that it was in relation to my post.