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HDTV gaming on PS2 from Xploder

$

$h@d0w

Junior Member
Gizmo_Monkey said:
erm it says vga cable required in that link but afaik you cant get a vga cable for ps2...
Click to expand...

VGA cable required for VGA mode - it's sold from the Xploder people as an accessory rather than in the package.
 
G

GotchaForce

Member
Anyone think this will work as well as what the PS3 is supposed to do? I'm not much of a tech person, I just know PS2 for the most part look like shit on my hdtv and the main reason I want a PS3 is because it's supposed to run games at a higher res. I'd love to save 600 bucks.
 
S

StRaNgE

Banned
dark10x said:
If you DO need to upgrade, I urge you to take a look at Pioneer's 2006/7 plasma lineup. I can't help but pimp them. :p

The scaler used in the new series is quite possibly the best scaler I've ever seen in a consumer television. It completely out-performs my Sony CRT, believe it or not (I was extremely suprised by this). Absolutely amazing image quality that offers the best of CRT with the best of fixed pixel technology. PS2 games are absolutely stunning and HD games are even better. I've also mentioned the various image filters you can adjust. Being able to blur the image allows low-res (PSX level) games to look incredible now. I've NEVER seen ICO look as good as it does here. Same goes for straight 2D games. All of those old PSX RPGs with pre-rendered backgrounds now look like smooth, CG images again rather than pixel fests.

I believe they are the best gaming displays on the market right now as they handle resolutions of all variety better than just about anything else out there. The 1080p version (which I do NOT own) is even more impressive, but the standard HD models actually accept and scale 1080p signals...and considering just how good the scaler is, the results are incredible. It's akin to a CRT TV accepting a 720p signal, as those TVs can't actually resolve the full resolution but are able to scale it very well. Same goes for this lineup and a 1080p signal (unless you own the 1080p model). The price is high, but it's well worth it.
Click to expand...


can ya link to one? oh have you seen any smaller ones? say under 30" anything in the 500-1000 $$ range? sounds wonderful from your description.
 
G

GotchaForce

Member
vantastic said:
you can play ps3 games on the ps2? sweet! :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll do that and play what...Resistence? I'll rent CODY or better yet, just buy Gears of War. I want to play ZOE2, MGS3, DMC3, FF12, Okami, Yakuza, ect in a nice res.
 
U

Uncle Dukey

Member
StRaNgE said:
can ya link to one? oh have you seen any smaller ones? say under 30" anything in the 500-1000 $$ range? sounds wonderful from your description.
Click to expand...

The smallest Pioneer plasma is 42" and it's in the $3000++ range.
 
E

Eiji

Member
Originally posted by a HDTVArcade member.

Looks like they added 576p to the list of selectable display modes in their FAQs so PAL users can relax now!

http://www.xploder.net/ps2/products/148/Xp...HDTV-Player.htm

These are the changes I noticed in the updated FAQs

The PS2 hardware isn't capable of outputting 720p and 1080i

Contrary to popular belief, the PlayStation 2 can output 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i modes via a Component cable. In addition the PS2 supports the following VESA modes (via VGA adaptor):
640 x 480 (60,72, 75, 85hz)
800 x 600 (56, 60, 72, 75,85hz)
1024 x 768 (60, 70, 75, 85hz)
1280 x 1024 (60, 75hz)

Will games suffer from stretching and distortion?

For optimum display on TVs with limited aspect ratio controls, we recommend the 576p display option. Some games may experience distortion in the higher resolution modes.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
A

Aaron

Member
StRaNgE said:
can ya link to one? oh have you seen any smaller ones? say under 30" anything in the 500-1000 $$ range? sounds wonderful from your description.
Click to expand...
Plasmas don't really come in small sizes. Go LCD instead.

On topic, still waiting for this to come out. Might have to break down and buy some cheap component cables to hold me over in the meantime. S-video just ain't cutting it.
 
MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
Eiji said:
Its finally available to purchase from the official website.

http://www.xploder.net/ps2/products/148/Xploder-HDTV-Player.htm

PAL (European) version - £29.99

NTSC (American) version - $49.99
Click to expand...

Ordered.

I'll post my review once it arrives.

Oh, it ends up being $70 US.
Q. There has been a lot of reference to up-converting/up-scaling and de-interlacing. Which of these best describes the HDTV Player?

A. Progressive mode and up-scaling best describe the method used by the Xploder HDTV Player.
Click to expand...

I'll find out if it actually does anything when it arrives, but I'm betting the component cables have some kind of circuit inside them that upscale the signals kind of like an upscaling DVD player.
 
E

Eiji

Member
MidgarBlowedUp said:
I'll find out if it actually does anything when it arrives, but I'm betting the component cables have some kind of circuit inside them that upscale the signals kind of like an upscaling DVD player.
Click to expand...

Nope.

From the official FAQ:

Does the HDTV player use additional hardware?

The Xploder HDTV Player does not use any additional hardware in converting the signal; it is purely a software product. The disc does comes bundled with a PS2 component cable for the HDTV output, and a VGA Adaptor cable is available separately for those who wish to use a VGA connection.
Click to expand...
 
MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
Eiji said:
Nope.

From the official FAQ:
Click to expand...

I just can't figure out how they are doing this. Is there some hidden upscale circuit inside the PS2 that no one bothered to use or something? I'd shit a brick if FFXII upscaled to 1080i and was playable.
 
O

Oneself

Member
MidgarBlowedUp said:
I just can't figure out how they are doing this. Is there some hidden upscale circuit inside the PS2 that no one bothered to use or something? I'd shit a brick if FFXII upscaled to 1080i and was playable.
Click to expand...

I'm counting on your review!:D
 
N

Ned Flanders

Banned
So basically it's an internal software patch to unlock 480p for all titles, which then get scaled on your HDTV? Or it's saying that it handles all the scaling internally now? I can't understand how that would be possible without a performance hit, particularly for the already more framerate-challenged titles..
 
E

Eiji

Member
Xploder claim the HDTV Player is compatible with 95% of all PS2 games with 480p and 576p.

The scaling is all done via software, that is to say, the product doesn't come with any additional hardware but it doesn't mean the Xploder software is doing everything itself.

We know now that the PS2 GPU can output at various different resolutions according to Xploders official FAQ.


240p
480i
576i
480p
576p
720p
1080i

VESA VGA
640 x 480 (60,72, 75, 85hz)
800 x 600 (56, 60, 72, 75,8 5hz)
1024 x 768 (60, 70, 75, 85hz)
1280 x 1024 (60, 75hz)

I think that the Xploder software basically stretches the image of the game in the higher resolutions like 720p and 1080i which is why people who have seen the product in action say the fonts in games look pixelated and there is much more aliasing than before. Its probably the reason why Xploder recommend that you should mainly use 480p or 576p.

Anyway, all shall be revealed soon.
 
M

madmook

Member
In general, CRTs have the best black levels/contrast ratios. They also provide the best image quality for last-gen games because 480i resolutions on a fixed panel high-def display generally look like ass. For HD signals, however, flat panel displays can provide a sharper and crisper image.

Oh, and +1 waiting for midgar's review... $70 USD is kinda hard to bite when there are no screenshots or anything.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
madmook said:
They also provide the best image quality for last-gen games because 480i resolutions on a fixed panel high-def display generally look like ass.
Click to expand...
Plasma should be mentioned here, though, as they can also do an amazing job with 480i images. Honestly, my Pioneer plasma handles SD 480i content better than my Sony HD CRT in the other room (though they both do an awesome job overall).

LCDs struggle the most with lower resolutions.
 
M

mintosen

Member
I dont understand the meaning of this really?...
Its like taking a picture with a 2mpixel camera, and then resize it in photoshop to 6mpixel?.. but with lots of "made up" pixels?.

or taking a 22khz mono 8bit file, and convert it to 48khz, stereo 16bit? :)
 
D

duckroll

Member
dark10x said:
If you DO need to upgrade, I urge you to take a look at Pioneer's 2006/7 plasma lineup. I can't help but pimp them. :p

The scaler used in the new series is quite possibly the best scaler I've ever seen in a consumer television. It completely out-performs my Sony CRT, believe it or not (I was extremely suprised by this). Absolutely amazing image quality that offers the best of CRT with the best of fixed pixel technology. PS2 games are absolutely stunning and HD games are even better. I've also mentioned the various image filters you can adjust. Being able to blur the image allows low-res (PSX level) games to look incredible now. I've NEVER seen ICO look as good as it does here. Same goes for straight 2D games. All of those old PSX RPGs with pre-rendered backgrounds now look like smooth, CG images again rather than pixel fests.

I believe they are the best gaming displays on the market right now as they handle resolutions of all variety better than just about anything else out there. The 1080p version (which I do NOT own) is even more impressive, but the standard HD models actually accept and scale 1080p signals...and considering just how good the scaler is, the results are incredible. It's akin to a CRT TV accepting a 720p signal, as those TVs can't actually resolve the full resolution but are able to scale it very well. Same goes for this lineup and a 1080p signal (unless you own the 1080p model). The price is high, but it's well worth it.
Click to expand...

That all sounds awesome, now tell us about the input lag for all that awesome processing. :D
 
A

AlanHemberger

Banned
mintosen said:
I dont understand the meaning of this really?...
Its like taking a picture with a 2mpixel camera, and then resize it in photoshop to 6mpixel?.. but with lots of "made up" pixels?.

or taking a 22khz mono 8bit file, and convert it to 48khz, stereo 16bit? :)
Click to expand...
Uhh, yeah, that's what upscaling is. It still makes it look better.
 
E

Eiji

Member
mintosen said:
I dont understand the meaning of this really?...
Its like taking a picture with a 2mpixel camera, and then resize it in photoshop to 6mpixel?.. but with lots of "made up" pixels?.

or taking a 22khz mono 8bit file, and convert it to 48khz, stereo 16bit? :)
Click to expand...

You should understand with this analogy.

Without the HDTV software, its like playing a 44Khz Stereo file on 1 speaker ;)

Basically, lots of PS2 games draw a full frame-buffer so even though the game can be displayed in progressive scan (480p i.e EDTV resolution) some developers tend not to add this option. What the Xploder does is force the PS2 to display the whole frame-buffer in one refresh (progressive) rather than half at a time (interlace).

The "upscaling" only comes into question with the higher resolution modes like 720p and 1080i. There shouldn't be ANY upscaling with 480i or 576i, rather they will just be forced to display natively in progressive kind of like the Dreamcast VGA adapter does.

Anyway, someone has upped a video of the Xploder HDTV Player from Digital Life. The video quality is low but worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdFoiUxWy4U

Here's another short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pw3bmeF_OM
 
S

sammyjojo

Member
Mojovonio said:
Doesn't GT4 run at 1080i?

I wonder what type of performance hit you can expect from this?
Click to expand...

From what I remember reading when GT4 came out was that the 1080i mode was the just 480i image upscaled to 1080 instead actually rendering at 1080i resolutions. I tried to look for something to back this up, but I could find anything so I could be wrong.
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
sammyjojo said:
From what I remember reading when GT4 came out was that the 1080i mode was the just 480i image upscaled to 1080 instead actually rendering at 1080i resolutions. I tried to look for something to back this up, but I could find anything so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Not upscaled; line doubled. 540p = 1080i. At least that's how I remember the thread going...
 
E

Eiji

Member
f_elz said:
they aren't selling a vga cable are they?
Click to expand...

It should be available soon. Here is a snippet of the official FAQ.

Select from High Definition (576p, 720p & 1080i), Enhanced Definition (480p) or VGA* modes to give a clearer, more crisp picture quality for your PS2 games.

Simply load the Xploder HDTV Player software disc, select your required settings, (480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i and numerous VGA modes) position the screen image in the required location and experience games as they were meant to be viewed.

*VGA cable will be available separately from www.xploder.net
Click to expand...
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
sammyjojo said:
From what I remember reading when GT4 came out was that the 1080i mode was the just 480i image upscaled to 1080 instead actually rendering at 1080i resolutions. I tried to look for something to back this up, but I could find anything so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I can't recall ... wasn't it internally rendered at something like 960x540 ... and then linedoubled to 1080i for output?
 
A

Antdogg355

Member
I am really interested in this, but is this something that I will be able to pick up in stores in the near future, or is it only available on their website?
 
R

Ree

Banned
My EB Games here in sweden frequently takes in that kinda stuff, just ask your local stores.

Edit: Now for chipped Xbox 1s too!

VGA Patcher v0.7
>> A utility that will patch xbox 1 bios images to support HD resolutions...
FrostyTheSnowman's VGA BIOS Patcher for XBOX
Disclaimer: I take absolutely no responsibility for what may result from the usage of this patch. By using this patch, you are agreeing to be held accountable for what may result from the usage of this patch. Use at your own risk.

Version 0.7:
*Supports Conexant Encoders
*Supports Focus Encoders
*Supports all HD resolutions, including 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
*Supports all current hacked BIOSes, including new X3 BIOSes.

NOTE: You NEED your HD settings enabled in your Microsoft Dashboard for this patch to function properly.

Known Issues:
1. When using IGR, the screen will turn green on your dashboard until you select another game, or reset your XBOX. (This is caused by the current IGR methods not resetting the GPU before loading the dashboard.)
2. Games that do not reset the GPU before executing will be green.
(Morrowind, Splinter Cell 1 & 3, Jade Empire, etc.)
3. 480i games (interlaced games) are not supported in VGA mode.
4. When using a video cable OTHER than a VGA cable, the colors will be incorrect. It is advised that you use a Dual BIOS setup, consisting of a VGA patched BIOS, and a standard BIOS so that you can still use your XBOX on a regular TV.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
C

chaostrophy

Member
Eiji said:
Basically, lots of PS2 games draw a full frame-buffer so even though the game can be displayed in progressive scan (480p i.e EDTV resolution) some developers tend not to add this option. What the Xploder does is force the PS2 to display the whole frame-buffer in one refresh (progressive) rather than half at a time (interlace).
Click to expand...

Any idea why developers would tend to not add that option? 480p looks significantly better than 480i- adding it would seem like a no-brainer if it doesn't result in a performance hit or optimization programming costs.
 
$

$h@d0w

Junior Member
Just got this in the morning and been trying it out with a few games. First up, it is very easy to set up, put your disc in, choose your HD mode, insert the game and off you go. You have 480p (60Hz), 576p (50Hz), 720p and 1080i (both 60Hz), but there are side "issues" with both. 480p rather overlaps the screen, so some of the top and bottom of the image are cut off and the other HD modes make the image rather small especially 1080i, but if your HD set can increase picture size via the screen size or aspect ratio options then that should sort this out. I am using 720p and tried out a few games, Metal Gear Solid 3 looked very nice indeed. Sad to report that ICO and Scarface are not compatible with this at the moment though, but Kingdom Hearts II is. The manual said a full list is available on the website but I checked and there is nothing there as of yet. I will try out more games when I get back home from Uni today and hopefully some of you guys will post the games you try out. Almost forgot, if you have use HD Loader this is not comptible with that

Games tried so far

MGS 3 (working)
God of War (working)
ICO (not working)
Tekken 5 (working)
Scarface (not working)
Kingdom Hearts II (working)
Click to expand...

From NTSC-UK forums.
 
G

GotchaForce

Member
I want to get this but would like to know how severe the 480p cutoff is as I'd imagine most game you'd have to run like that unless you want it to be forced stretched (720 defaults widescreen, right?).
 
E

Eiji

Member
USer impressions from someone at the NTSC-UK forums.

Just played around with this for a good half hour or so.

Overall impression - its a pile of crap, save your money.

Using a modded PAL PS2 (sorry, dunno what chip), couldn't get any NTSC games to work. God Hand oddly got to the 'checking memory card' screen and then crashed - also tried with no memory card in, but no joy at all that time. Okami was a no-go too.

PAL games - tried Rez, Dragon Quest 8, MGS 3, DMC3 and Frequency. Only one of those that didn't load was Frequency.

Tried Rez in 720p first - 720p makes it horribly squashed vertically, so its like watching through a letterbox. 1080i is even worse, condensing the view down both horizontally and vertically to a tiny box in the middle of the screen. Bizarre. Presumably it might be alright if you can force your TV to stretch the image outwards, but I would have thought that would just destroy the image quality and negate any benefits. The actual game doesn't increase in resolution either, so you're not getting rid of jaggies or actually making it look any better than 480p would.

Tried Dragon Quest in 480p, and it was quite noticably better than it usually looks thanks to the non-interlaced signal. Its one of the worst offenders for combing artefacts on my TV though, so I wasn't surprised by that. The downside is you lose a noticable chunk of your viewing area - there are really big old-school Square-style borders on each side. It also didn't put the viewable window anywhere near where I said it should, and you can't seem to adjust the screen postion from within the game options (maybe the Blaze HDTV overrides them or something)

The rest actually didn't look that great at 480p - not sure if it was just me getting pissed off with the thing, but things like DMC3 looked a hell of a lot better when I whacked them back on at fullscreen 480i.

The worst thing though, as Zero9X said, is that everything gets output at 4:3. I *think* its putting out a 16:9 signal, but the game gets rendered in a 4:3 window in the middle. As the actual signal is 16:9, my TV can't then can't even strech the image to fill the whole window, as from its view, it already is.

*edit* Following a bit more messing around, I found that San Andreas seems to render proper widescreen, so seems to depend on the game.

So yeah, if you have a fancy TV that can stretch and move the picture around to your heart's content, you may have more luck - as I said though, I doubt you really want to be stretching the image as it makes upping the res a bit pointless.


I'm off to stick it on eBay. Unless anyone on here wants to buy one? All of the above was a lie by the way, its great! Honest!
Click to expand...
 
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