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[brianmcdoogle]

I am highlighting an article that delves into how a vote for Hillary is more than just a symbolic vote for a female to be president. The author delineates Hillary Clinton's accomplishments in policy regarding women's issues and explores what a vote for a woman like Hillary Clinton means, and critiques some of the stances Hillary holds now.

Why the sarcasm and the derail? What is wrong with reading something that discusses the Democratic primary from a different perspective, specifically one involving women?

I'm in the middle of the article, but I just want to thank you for posting it. So far, the article, and the reaction to the article occurring in what might be a temper tantrum (I honestly can't tell when someone trolls anymore), reminded me of something Jamelle Bouie was writing about a few weeks ago on his twitter (he's a Slate reporter) on why African Americans strongly support Clinton despite things like the 90s crime bill and whatnot.

So, thanks for posting the article. I don't recall, and I haven't read it yet in this article, but did she do law work for women's issue prior to marrying Bill Clinton?

 

[Alandrus Sun]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ial_campaign_endorsements,_2016#U.S._Senators

His own fellow Senator from Vermont refused to endorse him.

 

[Boney]

Not gonna comment on how this thread is going around m, but I'm a pretty cynical guy and while I won't deny that Hillary has made strides to help minorities back in the 90's and 80's, it seems to me that's the platform in how she decided to approach politics, by tapping into an under represented population so she could stand herself apart from other politicians and advance her political career especially as First Lady. But despite whatever reading I do to it, there's a lot of value in what she decided to go for and helped a lot of people and helped organize minorities into political bodies capable of negotiating and I commend that.

Hillary today though is just cashing in those favors.

Spoiler

also, this is a propaganda piece

 

[Zaventem]

Vote for the symbol.

 

[hodayathink]

Welcome to politics.

Well, yeah. Doesn't make it less sad, though.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Probably? Neogaf is mysteriously way more into Hilary than the rest of the internet.

I really can't tell anymore.

This.

 

[soleil]

Not gonna comment on how this thread is going around m, but I'm a pretty cynical guy and while I won't deny that Hillary has made strides to help minorities back in the 90's and 80's, it seems to me that's the platform in how she decided to approach politics, by tapping into an under represented population so she could stand herself apart from other politicians and advance her political career especially as First Lady. But despite whatever reading I do to it, there's a lot of value in what she decided to go for and helped a lot of people and helped organize minorities into political bodies capable of negotiating and I commend that.

Hillary today though is just cashing in those favors.

Spoiler

also, this is a propaganda piece

Well, I mean, wouldn't that argument apply to literally any politician helping an underrepresented group? You could always say they did it to look good. In the other thread where Hillary is helping the disabled, people found ways to say her proposal might not be good. She just can't win with some people.

 

[Boney]

His own fellow Senator from Vermont refused to endorse him.

Gee I wonder why establishment politicians don't wanna go against Hillary and risk getting on her hit list.

it's not like people are scared of her or anything

 

[Wafflecakes]

Gee I wonder why establishment politicians don't wanna go against Hillary and risk getting on her hit list.

it's not like people are scared of her or anything

...because they couldn't POSSIBLY actually think she would make a better president eh?

After all. Only Bernie supporters actually have brains and use them to decide who to vote for.

 

[Anfang]

...because they couldn't POSSIBLY actually think she would make a better president eh?

After all. Only Bernie supporters actually have brains and use them to decide who to vote for.

The people should decide whos better, not them.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Watching threads like this just gets me really frustrated about America. You guys have a fractured GOP, and rather than coalescing around one of the most well qualified Presidential candidates in recent history, half of you are fighting tooth and nail for a snake oil salesman.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Gee I wonder why establishment politicians don't wanna go against Hillary and risk getting on her hit list.

it's not like people are scared of her or anything

Because the Hilary camp and the DNC would crack in Sen. Leahy's skull because he dared to endorse his fellow Senator? LOL, I love these scenarios people construct in which any negative opinion of Sanders and any lack of support towards him is some conspiracy. Of course Barney Frank wouldn't speak positively about him, he's bought by the Clintons! Obviously, Sen. Leahy is too scared to support his colleague because Hilary will chop his head off.

 

[dramatis]

So, thanks for posting the article. I don't recall, and I haven't read it yet in this article, but did she do law work for women's issue prior to marrying Bill Clinton?

Off the top of my head I think she worked at the Children's Defense Fund before marrying Bill Clinton, so I'm not too sure on what law work for women's issues she might have done before then.

Mostly I wanted people to consider what 'voting for a woman' really means, both with or without the context of Hillary Clinton. I hope you get something out of the article.

 

[googleplex]

Vote for the symbol.

Isn't this essentially what Bernie is??

Gee I wonder why establishment politicians don't wanna go against Hillary and risk getting on her hit list.

it's not like people are scared of her or anything

Just labeling someone or something "establishment" as a counter argument is the most laziest way to dismiss someone.

 

[Cagey]

Bernie is a snake oil salesmen. He only cares about the white straight male. Hillary genuinely cares about minorities and women and has a pretty decent history of helping them
Clarificatiob: I don't think bernie is a racist. I feel bernie is naive and doesn't see the big picture.

He's trying to correct his mistakes though.

 

[The Technomancer]

The people should decide whos better, not them.

The people are

Its Hillary

Pretty decisively

 

[Boney]

Well, I mean, wouldn't that argument apply to literally any politician helping an underrepresented group? You could always say they did it to look good. In the other thread where Hillary is helping the disabled, people found ways to say her proposal might not be good. She just can't win with some people.

That's totally fair. I ascribe by Weber's simple position of there being two types of politicians. Ones that live for politics and ones that live from politics. And based on my impression, Hillary is more of the second one and that has to do with how I see her ethics of moral conviction. Of course I could very well be wrong but I don't trust her at all.

Bernie is one of the few politicians that I can say is full of integrity.

 

[antonz]

Jesus. Elements of Gaf are becoming scarier than the Hillary 04 nuts.

Hillary has at times worked for the common good and just as often worked for her own good. I suppose if the proper balance is found she can do good but I just don't know how effective you can balance self interest with interest for others

 

[catmincer]

Watching threads like this just gets me really frustrated about America. You guys have a fractured GOP, and rather than coalescing around one of the most well qualified Presidential candidates in recent history, half of you are fighting tooth and nail for a snake oil salesman.

So much. It's stupid and this is why he needs to stop.

 

[soleil]

Off the top of my head I think she worked at the Children's Defense Fund before marrying Bill Clinton, so I'm not too sure on what law work for women's issues she might have done before then.

Mostly I wanted people to consider what 'voting for a woman' really means, both with or without the context of Hillary Clinton. I hope you get something out of the article.

It's a good article. Thanks for posting.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's totally fair. I ascribe by Weber's simple position of there being two types of politicians. Ones that live for politics and ones that live from politics. And based on my impression, Hillary is more of the second one and that has to do with how I see her ethics of moral conviction. Of course I could very well be wrong but I don't trust her at all.

Bernie is one of the few politicians that I can say is full of integrity.

The idea that Hillary doesn't live for politics seems crazy to me. Disagree with policy positions all you want, but she has dedicated the last two and a half decades of her life to the idea that there is actual "service" to be performed in "public service"

 

[MHWilliams]

If you're not going to discuss the content of the article, it's best not to offer up a post in the thread. Less sniping at either side and more discussion.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Well, I mean, wouldn't that argument apply to literally any politician helping an underrepresented group? You could always say they did it to look good. In the other thread where Hillary is helping the disabled, people found ways to say her proposal might not be good. She just can't win with some people.

fwiw, everyone i was interacting with in that thread was tackling that from the perspective of "ways to improve this proposal so it doesn't have unintended negative consequences" moreso than "this proposal is shit"

 

[TheBritishBear]

I never got the 'snake oil salesman' comparison for Bernie. Idealistic? Yeah. But a 'snake oil salesman'?

By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is themselves a fraud, quack, or charlatan.

He has been consistent in his history and voting record. He stuck by his values. If anything, Hillary is more of a 'snake oil salesman' considering she has changed her position numerous times when the poll suits her.

I'm not saying that Hillary is a bad candidate or anything and would be better than Trump. But eh.

 

[Boney]

...because they couldn't POSSIBLY actually think she would make a better president eh?

After all. Only Bernie supporters actually have brains and use them to decide who to vote for.

Because the Hilary camp and the DNC would crack in Sen. Leahy's skull because he dared to endorse his fellow Senator? LOL, I love these scenarios people construct in which any negative opinion of Sanders and any lack of support towards him is some conspiracy. Of course Barney Frank wouldn't speak positively about him, he's bought by the Clintons! Obviously, Sen. Leahy is too scared to support his colleague because Hilary will chop his head off.

Are members of the party frank about endorsing Hillary? Sure, some of them, even most perhaps. Especially as she is really the only real democrat here. But if you're gonna deny the possibility of people exchanging political favors in exchange of support then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Nickle]

The idea that Hillary doesn't live for politics seems crazy to me. Disagree with policy positions all you want, but she has dedicated the last two and a half decades of her life to the idea that there is actual "service" to be performed in "public service"

Exactly, Clinton is running because she deeply cares about the American people.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Only in America would someone successfully talk themselves into the everyday water of dozens of other countries on earth being 'snake oil."

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Are members of the party frank about endorsing Hillary? Sure, some of them, even most perhaps. Especially as she is really the only real democrat here. But if you're gonna deny the possibility of people exchanging political favors in exchange of support then I don't know what to tell you.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/

 

[goomba]

hillary gaf is freaking out.

i sometimes wonder if hillary supporters are actually closet right wing war mongers as hillary is favoured by neoconservatives over trump or cruise.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Only in America would someone successfully talk themselves into the everyday water of dozens of other countries on earth being 'snake oil."

"only in america" would people ignore any and all practical differences between this country and "dozens of other countries", on top of ignoring the fact that practically no ground work is being done for the coalition-building required to change policy so that we can have that "everyday water"

Spoiler

i am feeling some weird deja vu about these posts, almost like i've made them several times before

 

[titiklabingapat]

Sometimes to really understand the plight of someone is to be one of them. Bernie is a wonderful human being but she is not a woman. He has not experienced many of the systemic deficiencies that Hillary herself has experience and continue to experience as a woman.

 

[Shake Appeal]

"only in america" would people ignore any and all differences between this country and "dozens of other countries", on top of ignoring the fact that practically no ground work is being done for the coalition-building required to change policy so that we can have that "everyday water"

Spoiler

i am feeling some weird deja vu about these posts, almost like i've made them several times before

 

[Boney]

The idea that Hillary doesn't live for politics seems crazy to me. Disagree with policy positions all you want, but she has dedicated the last two and a half decades of her life to the idea that there is actual "service" to be performed in "public service"

I don't deny that she has done wonderful things along the years. But again, living for politics is a thing of moral integrity, where money isn't involved at all.

I mean Hillary did work for the board of directors in Walmart.

I know I'm coming harsh and it seems I'm assassinating her character. So I'll reiterate, the article is proof enough that whatever my assessment of her is, she made progressive strides for minorities and women, areas that other politicians weren't invested on.

 

[God Dayumm]

Yas Queen is more than just a symbol, she is Hope (◡‿◡&#10047

 

[MilkBeard]

Was gonna post that, perfect image for this thread.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Hillary genuinely cares about minorities

That's a good one.

 

[googleplex]

I don't deny that she has done wonderful things along the years. But again, living for politics is a thing of moral integrity, where money isn't involved at all.

I mean Hillary did work for the board of directors in Walmart.

I know I'm coming harsh and it seems I'm assassinating her character. So I'll reiterate, the article is proof enough that whatever my assessment of her is, she made progressive strides for minorities and women, areas that other politicians weren't invested on.

I'm seriously trying to connect the dots here. What dose her having worked with Walmart have anything to do with anything?

 

[Wag]

Hillary is still for a $12 minimum wage when the Democratic Party as a whole is for $15. That speaks volumes right there. (Not that I love Bernie either)

 

[eBay Huckster]

Hillary is still for a $12 minimum wage when the Democratic Party as a whole is for $15. That speaks volumes right there. (Not that I love Bernie either)

[citation needed]

the overwhelming majority of the party is for an increase to $10. i have not seen any indication that the overwhelming majority is for $15.

(e: in both cases, i'm talking about nationwide. generally speaking, everyone is for targeted increases, they just don't think it's good as a national minimum. "everyone" here is including, and may well be exclusive to, actual economists.)

 

[Zaptruder]

Watching threads like this just gets me really frustrated about America. You guys have a fractured GOP, and rather than coalescing around one of the most well qualified Presidential candidates in recent history, half of you are fighting tooth and nail for a snake oil salesman.

The condescension is through the motherfuckin' roof here.

Just let it play the fuck out. It's not like Sanders will be winning at this point... and once there's only one democratic candidate left, you really don't have to work nearly as hard to convince the left to rally around Clinton.

 

[Odrion]

someone posted in poligaf why he is voting for hilllary and I feel it should be posted in every hillary thread

is this suppose to be irony or

 

[titiklabingapat]

Hillary is still for a $12 minimum wage when the Democratic Party as a whole is for $15. That speaks volumes right there. (Not that I love Bernie either)

Ummm, she is fine for $15 minimum wage if it's geographically targeted. Like in SF and NYC, it's fine but not in Nowhere, Arkansas.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I'm seriously trying to connect the dots here. What dose her having worked with Walmart have anything to do with anything?

Because Walmart is a Big Scary Corporation and putting Hillary next to it makes her seem guilty I guess? I don't follow the logic here either.

 

[Boney]

Sometimes to really understand the plight of someone is to be one of them. Bernie is a wonderful human being but she is not a woman. He has not experienced many of the systemic deficiencies that Hillary herself has experience and continue to experience as a woman.

Gloria Steinem did name Bernie an honorary woman though. And I completely disagree with your premise. Men or whites or whatever can be blind, ignorant or even take advantage unwittingly of their privileged positions, however you're arguing that humans are incapable of feeling empathy and not fight with other groups. Of course to really be part of the movement you have to be an activist, which Bernie is.

 

[kirblar]

Hillary is still for a $12 minimum wage when the Democratic Party as a whole is for $15. That speaks volumes right there. (Not that I love Bernie either)

Because a raise to 15 would be backbreaking for poor and rural areas in the US w low cost of living.

She took the economically correct answer over the populist one.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Is 'snake oil salesman' the cool new buzzword that many on gaf are coalescing around? I'm pretty sure I have seen it practically in every political thread in the past couple of weeks.

 

[Wag]

[citation needed]

the overwhelming majority of the party is for an increase to $10. i have not seen any indication that the overwhelming majority is for $15.

(e: in both cases, i'm talking about nationwide. generally speaking, everyone is for targeted increases, they just don't think it's good as a national minimum)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/democrats-make-a-15-national-minimum-wage-an-establishment-p#.iw7bEwMGg

The Party adopted it as an official platform a few months back.

 

[eBay Huckster]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/democrats-make-a-15-national-minimum-wage-an-establishment-p#.iw7bEwMGg

The Party adopted it as an official platform a few months back.

huh. i actually didn't hear about that until just now!

belay anything i said regarding the party not being for it, then

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Is 'snake oil salesman' the cool new buzzword that many on gaf are coalescing around? I'm pretty sure I have seen it practically in every political thread in the past couple of weeks.

It's a pretty popular expression in politics. It's not new by any stretch.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Gloria Steinem did name Bernie an honorary woman though. And I completely disagree with your premise. Men or whites or whatever can be blind, ignorant or even take advantage unwittingly of their privileged positions, however you're arguing that humans are incapable of feeling empathy and not fight with other groups. Of course to really be part of the movement you have to be an activist, which Bernie is.

I'm not arguing that. Men and white men can still feel and empathize, yes, but at the end of the day, they are still white men and doesn't have to be subjected to what women are subjected to 24/7.