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[The Antitype]

Everything I've seen and heard about this game sounds awesome.

Hitman games were fantastic sandboxes hampered by some of the jankiest gameplay mechanics of any modern game franchise. I for one am happy to see the developers tackle the issue head-on, with no fear of rebuilding the gameplay mechanics from scratch.

And for the record, Splinter Cell Conviction is the third-best Splinter Cell in the franchise, so using that to make fun of this game seems a little odd...?

 

[MMaRsu]

Everything I've seen and heard about this game sounds awesome.

Hitman games were fantastic sandboxes hampered by some of the jankiest gameplay mechanics of any modern game franchise. I for one am happy to see the developers tackle the issue head-on, with no fear of rebuilding the gameplay mechanics from scratch.

And for the record, Splinter Cell Conviction is the third-best Splinter Cell in the franchise, so using that to make fun of this game seems a little odd...?

I know..opinions but..

how can this even be remotly true?

 

[Boombloxer]

Nothing terrible, although lets not forget all the bad stuff from the last round of previews

- There is instinct mode, which works similair to the detective mode in Arkham Asylum. It will replace the map screens from previous Hitman games.
- With the instinct mode you monitor enemies trough walls, burning-red trails highlight the patrol route enemies are about to take, and the mode also highlight points of intrest (like climable ledges and vents). It can also be used to maximise your disguise.
- The instinct mode can only be used for a short time, it is powered by a bar that refills when you do silent, stealty takedowns.
- Enemy patrol paths will now take organic and shorter paths, this is done so the player can anticipate when the AI is going to do something and not getting randomly caught.
- Levels will now be divided into discrete checkpoints.
- More focus on smaller sandboxes, because they want to control the pacing better and bring more variety to the gameplay.
- Long-time series composer Jesper Kyd will not be returning. The duo Peter Peter and -Peter Kyed will be doing it.
- Longtime 47's voice actor David Bateson will not be returning.

............................................................................................

Dammit. I really wanted a good Hitman game. This sounds way too easy.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Red Faction Guerrilla was a departure from the original two FPS games. People complained and trashed on the game, particularly when early pictures leaked out. People were still hating when the demo was released. Eventually people whining about what the game wasn't and embraced it for what it was: a different but still excellent game. It was successful for it.

I'm pretty sure this wasn't how it actually went down in the case of red faction guerrilla.

first of all red faction 2 was a really really shitty game, and I don't think almost anyone liked it. it pretty much killed the red faction franchise dead.

but second and to the point, I doubt the franchise overall figured into what went on in that thread at all, and most of the people making fun of guerrilla at that time I doubt would even knew the name of the developers at that time. guerrilla was ridiculed in that first thread just because the leaked early media didn't represent the game well, it was pretty much all about the visuals. and it was one of those unfortunate threads where people just piled in to shit on a game without thinking things through too much. it was more like a gathering spot of the day for the spammers of the forum. I can't actually remember anyone criticising the game for being a third person man with a hammer game instead of a first person shooter.

 

[The Antitype]

I know..opinions but..

how can this even be remotly true?

Like I said, the previous Hitman games were great sandboxes hindered by a janky mess of gameplay mechanics.

Everything I've seen and read about the game says they've cleaned up the actual GAMEPLAY, leaving the freedom of the sandboxes intact.

Yes, there will also be scripted, cinematic moments thrown in throughout, but I can live with that.

The key components of the series - silent kills, disguises, using the environment to kill, having about 10 different ways to each objective, they all still seem to be there from what I've read.

Excited.

 

[Aselith]

- Long-time series composer Jesper Kyd will not be returning. The duo Peter Peter and -Peter Kyed will be doing it.
- Longtime 47's voice actor David Bateson will not be returning.

I'm going to play Blood Money and forget I read this. How the fuck can you do away with one of the most iconic voices is gaming? I don't even

 

[rollingstart]

I'm pretty sure this wasn't how it actually went down in the case of red faction guerrilla.

first of all red faction 2 was a really really shitty game, and I don't think almost anyone liked it. it pretty much killed the red faction franchise dead.

but second and to the point, I doubt the franchise overall figured into what went on in that thread at all, and most of the people making fun of guerrilla at that time I doubt would even knew the name of the developers at that time. guerrilla was ridiculed in that first thread just because the leaked early media didn't represent the game well, it was pretty much all about the visuals. and it was one of those unfortunate threads where people just piled in to shit on a game without thinking things through too much. it was more like a gathering spot of the day for the spammers of the forum. I can't actually remember anyone criticising the game for being a third person man with a hammer game instead of a first person shooter.

I remember a few responses like that. And yes, Red Faction 2 is bad bad, but Red Faction 1 was well liked. I played the PC multiplayer for a while but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not about to search out the thread and read responses. So, fair enough if the negative reception was from that early media. Consider the example moot.

It's was just one example in how a series can diverge and still turn out great. I'm sure anyone can think of a few other examples. And to be fair, a lot of those examples do split the fanbase like with Burnout Paradise or Metroid Prime.

I'm just saying that different isn't bad. Different is different. Fwiw, what this guy is saying isn't what I want to hear in a Hitman game, but I haven't seen the game and I can't judge at this point.

 

[bwtw]

Hpw are people taking from a quote which specfically says they will listen to fans that they are saying they won't listen to fans? Not being dictated by =/= not listening.

 

[Chairman Yang]

What direction? going casual friendly? rebooting the unique Tomb Raider and making it QTE fest Uncharted clone ? making Hitman a stupid game so it appeal to Angry Birds crowd?making that shitty K&L2?

The direction of Deus Ex: Human Revolution being GOTY

 

[kamspy]

Hpw are people taking from a quote which specfically says they will listen to fans that they are saying they won't listen to fans? Not being dictated by =/= not listening.

You missed the part where he basically said we don't have the mental capacity for a game like Blood Money.

This could actually turn out to be a Kinect/Move on rails shooter the way it's being described and shown...

 

[markot]

Why do the kane and lynch team still have jobs >_<?

 

[SketchTheArtist]

Boo to them for having integrity and not getting pushed around easily by raging fanboys like Ninja Theory! BOO!!!

 

[lord pie]

I'm amazed by some of the responses in this thread. I never got into the games, so I was curious to read about the new one.

...


I completely agree with interview I'm reading here. It sounds like they are making a bigger, better game that will appeal to more people and significantly improve what made hitman popular (the freedom of choice) while supporting much more varied play style.

He starts off by saying the game is bigger with much better tech - and has more player freedom than any previous game (and it will be more diverse with less trial and error). Huh? That sounds fantastic! From the comments in this thread, I expected the opposite (linear corridor stabber etc etc!).


About the 'reload' / singstar quote;

To me, that quote says that in the previous games the hardcore play style evolves into an optimising loop (reload, reload, reload!) which suggests to me the core game systems are flawed - so they are working to fix that - partly by allowing more diverse play styles. Even more fantastic!

There is no question the game needs to become more accessible - I don't see how anyone could argue against that.

And they are doing focus testing! GOOD. How on earth is that a bad thing? Focus testing is one the most important parts of game development - especially testing with people who are not familiar with your game / genre.


He is absolutely right; don't be dictated to by the fans. His job is to make money, and that isn't done by optimising for the niche at the expense of all others. It's done by refining the game, expanding their appeal and capturing a bigger audience. Which (to me) sounds like exactly what they are doing.

Sounds great.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

This could actually turn out to be a Kinect/Move on rails shooter the way it's being described and shown...

I know you guys are mad, but really?

 

[AgentChris]

I'm going to play Blood Money and forget I read this. How the fuck can you do away with one of the most iconic voices is gaming? I don't even

Square Enix doesn't have enough $$

 

[Messi]

I'm amazed by some of the responses in this thread. I never got into the games, so I was curious to read about the new one.

...


I completely agree with interview I'm reading here. It sounds like they are making a bigger, better game that will appeal to more people and significantly improve what made hitman popular (the freedom of choice) while supporting much more varied play style.

He starts off by saying the game is bigger with much better tech - and has more player freedom than any previous game (and it will be more diverse with less trial and error). Huh? That sounds fantastic! From the comments in this thread, I expected the opposite (linear corridor stabber etc etc!).


About the 'reload' / singstar quote;

To me, that quote says that in the previous games the hardcore play style evolves into an optimising loop (reload, reload, reload!) which suggests to me the core game systems are flawed - so they are working to fix that - partly by allowing more diverse play styles. Even more fantastic!

There is no question the game needs to become more accessible - I don't see how anyone could argue against that.

And they are doing focus testing! GOOD. How on earth is that a bad thing? Focus testing is one the most important parts of game development - especially testing with people who are not familiar with your game / genre.


He is absolutely right; don't be dictated to by the fans. His job is to make money, and that isn't done by optimising for the niche at the expense of all others. It's done by refining the game, expanding their appeal and capturing a bigger audience. Which (to me) sounds like exactly what they are doing.

Sounds great.

This is why you are not angry.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

I know you guys are mad, but really?

It's one of the first time in a while that's I'm actually angry at the internet. Ever since I stumbled upon this thread. Just boiling. I shouldn't be, it's stupid to be, but I can't help it. People are so closed-minded, it's pretty astounding.

 

[The Antitype]

I loved the hell out of Hitman and Hitman Blood Money. The others not so much.

I'd rather a developer focus on making the best game possible than focus on making fans happy. In many cases, fans don't actually know they want something until the get it.

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

You can throw out as many examples as you want. The series has hit a plateau doing the same old thing. Somebody needs to have the balls to risk doing something a little different to take it to the next level of quality and possible popularity.

 

[lord pie]

This is why you are not angry.

I'm not sure if you are being ironic.

However getting angry because they are making a better game, not simply remaking a memory seems a bit... Shortsighted? (Selfish perhaps?)

My memories of hitman are frustration, confusion and a physics glitch that led me to discover verlet integration. Which was quite useful.

 

[Messi]

I loved the hell out of Hitman and Hitman Blood Money. The others not so much.

I'd rather a developer focus on making the best game possible than focus on making fans happy. In many cases, fans don't actually know they want something until the get it.

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

You can throw out as many examples as you want. The series has hit a plateau doing the same old thing. Somebody needs to have the balls to risk doing something a little different to take it to the next level of quality and possible popularity.

funny how the last entry was the best selling and most loved of all the games then...if it hit a plateau

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Okay now it's time to start lighting torches and collecting pitchforks.

“One of the things that was difficult with the old games was that there was a lot of freedom, but you really had to dig it out, it wasn’t really presented to you at all. So you could start a level and there was ten doors open to you and was like, ‘well, where the hell am I supposed to go? I don’t know, I’ll just have to try the first door, oh I got killed, now I’ll try the second one.’

LOOK THROUGH THE FUCKING KEYHOLE YOU IDIOT

 

[Messi]

Okay now it's time to start lighting torches and collecting pitchforks.



LOOK THROUGH THE FUCKING KEYHOLE YOU IDIOT

this quote is fucking insulting.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Changing direction isn't always a bad thing. Shit, RE4 and Metroid Prime are arguably two of the best games ever created despite significantly deviating from previous entries.

Absolution might turn out to be a bust but I'll wait before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Bill Squabber]

All for it. Developers should stick to their guns. Not always a good thing to listen to fans.

 

[D4Danger]

Okay now it's time to start lighting torches and collecting pitchforks.



LOOK THROUGH THE FUCKING KEYHOLE YOU IDIOT

But how are you suppose to know which door is important without 2 guys leaning next to it waiting for you to activate the next script?

 

[Vandiger]

I loved the hell out of Hitman and Hitman Blood Money. The others not so much.

I'd rather a developer focus on making the best game possible than focus on making fans happy. In many cases, fans don't actually know they want something until the get it.

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

You can throw out as many examples as you want. The series has hit a plateau doing the same old thing. Somebody needs to have the balls to risk doing something a little different to take it to the next level of quality and possible popularity.

Hitman hit a plateau? News to me....

Original team not even on the game, bad idea already. Boggles my mind when some of these executives fuck up a good thing.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

And they are doing focus testing! GOOD. How on earth is that a bad thing? Focus testing is one the most important parts of game development - especially testing with people who are not familiar with your game / genre.

Yeah there should be a singing portion just for the Singstar people. And maybe a football minigame for the Madden dudes. That'll rope 'em in.

But in seriousness the fans are the ones who made the franchise what it is today. It's fine to be consulting with non-fans but it sounds like they have strayed too far from what it is to be a Hitman game.

 

[SamuraiX-]

I loved the hell out of Hitman and Hitman Blood Money. The others not so much.

I'd rather a developer focus on making the best game possible than focus on making fans happy. In many cases, fans don't actually know they want something until the get it.

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

You can throw out as many examples as you want. The series has hit a plateau doing the same old thing. Somebody needs to have the balls to risk doing something a little different to take it to the next level of quality and possible popularity.

Yo, man, I respect you and everything but you're completely out of your element now.

 

[Karkador]

In many cases, fans don't actually know they want something until the get it.

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

It's very likely that the people who weren't demanding FPS games on console still aren't very fond of FPS games on console.

Also, shooters have had cover for as long as they've had walls. The chest-high walls weren't exactly something to "demand", it's just one of the things that helped shooter design go from maze-like maps to linear Point A to Point B stuff.

Changing direction isn't always a bad thing. Shit, RE4 and Metroid Prime are arguably two of the best games ever created despite significantly deviating from previous entries.

Yes, it's true that evolving the idea of a game into another game could turn out well, but it doesn't mean the former game type is irrelevant or unwanted. RE4 practically isn't a Resident Evil game. It was a good action game, but many people still want a "real Resident Evil". The way they evolved it threw out a lot of the adventure game elements, and those aren't irrelevant or unwanted things.

On the other hand, Metroid Prime actually kept a lot of it's Metroid-ness by keeping that very distinct progression of exploring the map and getting new things to go to other areas. In that case, the evolution was very faithful, and the game was still great.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

good, I won't let him dictate me to buy his fucking game

 

[Derrick01]

The direction of Deus Ex: Human Revolution being GOTY

SE had nothing to do with that game, and we should be thankful for that.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I've been optimistic since Day One about Absolution... but damn, IO's PR fucking sucks.

I will say though, I agree with the 'letting fans dictate' bit, since I'd rather have the devs follow their own vision rather than let fan whining affect things (like inFamous 2's Cole design). Just let the devs make the game, then I will judge it. I want to avoid letting negativity cloud my feelings ahead of the release.

That said, I'm still looking forward to Absolution. I liked Kane & Lynch 2, despite its failings in a few areas. I think Absolution can still be good (despite their awful PR). I'm also excited for Tomb Raider (though that has nothing to do with IO, it just looks fucking awesome).

 

[Jintor]

I was hyped for this game. Now I just want to see what the fuck they're doing, because I don't really have a clue anymore.

 

[Poimandres]

Why do the kane and lynch team still have jobs >_<?

The atmosphere in Dog Days was incredible. One of the most convincing representations of a city I've ever come across. The presentation in general in that game was pretty impressive.

Also, I was bummed about Jesper not doing the soundtrack with Dog Days, but the sound design in that game was great. I think it was a good decision.

I'm not going to write this off until I play it, and I urge everyone else to do the same.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The atmosphere in Dog Days was incredible. One of the most convincing representations of a city I've ever come across. The presentation in general in that game was pretty impressive.

Also, I was bummed about Jesper not doing the soundtrack with Dog Days, but the sound design in that game was great. I think it was a good decision.

I'm not going to write this off until I play it, and I urge everyone else to do the same.

That is very true. If there's one thing IO cannot fail at here, it's the atmosphere.

 

[UrbanRats]

The atmosphere in Dog Days was incredible. One of the most convincing representations of a city I've ever come across. The presentation in general in that game was pretty impressive.

Also, I was bummed about Jesper not doing the soundtrack with Dog Days, but the sound design in that game was great. I think it was a good decision.

I'm not going to write this off until I play it, and I urge everyone else to do the same.

Dog Days was one of the biggest waste of this gen, for me.
Such an amazing art direction; such poor and unimaginative gameplay/gamedesign.

 

[tiff]

And they are doing focus testing! GOOD. How on earth is that a bad thing? Focus testing is one the most important parts of game development - especially testing with people who are not familiar with your game / genre.

Every story I've heard about focus testing has been a nightmare about dumbing a game down for idiots.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Dog Days was one of the biggest waste of this gen, for me.
Such an amazing art direction; such poor and unimaginative gameplay/gamedesign.

The gameplay is pretty much the same as Uncharted and Gears. Very solid cover mechanics with precise controls that ticks all the boxes. Where it failed for a lot of people was the lack of objective variety, too few major set pieces (until the end), and probably the level design too. While the atmosphere was awesome, it resulted in crushingly cramped corridor carnage.

If there's one thing i'll defend IO on, it's K&L2. Too bad it's a completely different game from Hitman though, and sadly they felt the need to try and combine them.

 

[Thunderbear]

Wow, the OP has some issues. He just said that if he were to listen to every segment of the fan base, he'd have to make different choices. He said ONE segment of the fan base wants the new one to be the hardest, he wasn't referring to you as an individual fan.

And he's right, and most developers think this way but don't say it out loud. You can't listen to all your fans and let them dictate how you develop your game. Best games are done by people with strong visions, but leave an ear open to what players want.

Even Miyamoto says you can't design games for what people want, because it's a developer's job to know what they will want. Fans, especially dedicated ones, think they are supposed to be part of the development team. Developers humor them, listen to them sometimes, but will 90% of the time go with their own instincts. As they should. If they make crap games, it's because they aren't very good developers, not because they don't listen.

And to fend off any fallout from this message, I said 90% of the time. You should keep an ear open but you should definitely not let fans dictate your development.

 

[Mechazawa]

Good. Too many fans are idiots and are incapable of expressing what they want out of a game and what they appreciated out of previous ones. IO, as a developer, needs to be capable of gauging what made their previous games great and what concessions make sense without losing too much of the spirit of the series. And they need to do it without taking too much of what the vocal crowd says at face value. And hopefully, that doesn't end up as a Conviction scenario.

Hopefully they didn't skip on the previous VA/composer because they're cheap fucks.

 

[Aselith]

And he's right, and most developers think this way but don't say it out loud.

There's a reason they don't say it out loud.

 

[Poimandres]

The gameplay is pretty much the same as Uncharted and Gears. Very solid cover mechanics with precise controls that ticks all the boxes. Where it failed for a lot of people was the lack of objective variety, too few major set pieces (until the end), and probably the level design too. While the atmosphere was awesome, it resulted in crushingly cramped corridor carnage.

If there's one thing i'll defend IO on, it's K&L2. Too bad it's a completely different game from Hitman though, and sadly they felt the need to try and combine them.

I had some good fun with K&L2, but I wouldn't really describe it as "solid". Things like characters clipping through each other and bland AI held it back. It could have used a little more time in the oven, and it definitely could have done with some "down time" to explore those sumptuous environments (even though the frantic pace of the whole game had its charms).

I think it really doesn't get enough credit for it's presentation. It's a very unique game in that respect.

Everything I've seen of Absolution looks great in terms of atmosphere. Change isn't necessarily a bad thing, neither is making a game less punishing. These things can go wrong, but they can also be executed well. Look at SC: Chaos Theory for a good example... it's not nearly as cut throat trial and error as the original, but most feel it's a better game.

 

[jbueno]

Good bye 47. You might as well be dead now.

 

[Persona7]

Boo to them for having integrity and not getting pushed around easily by raging fanboys like Ninja Theory! BOO!!!

And Sucker Punch

and others

 

[Ether_Snake]

Another thread where people panic about a game when all the things the devs are saying are the same things all other devs think when making games anyway.

The Hitman threads always feel like the Silent Hill threads to me, lol.

 

[CrankyKong]

Didn't the developers of Dragon Age 2 make similar kinds of comments before its release?

 

[Mindlog]

How many people were demanding FPS games on consoles before Halo?

How many people were demanding cover in shooters before Gears of War popularized it?

I am not quite sure I follow. How is a new series relevant to the discussion? Most of the critique is centered on changing a series to chase a larger audience while abandoning proven material. I agree that developers need to follow a creative vision. However, I am having a lot of trouble trying to recall a series that successfully 'transcends' its roots to reach a new audience.

Sim-City ?
Tribes 2 ?

The most successful improvements from this gen simply did a great job refining the existing formula. Assassin's Creed X and Call of Duty X would fall into this category. Civilaztion Revolution did a great job with its niche. I don't believe it was trying to be any kind of direct successor to previous Civ games.

"We have paced the game a little bit more than previous games. In Blood Money, we felt it was one huge mission, then another huge mission, then another huge mission… and you always start outside and probe your way in. It got a little repetitive at the end."

I am not going to call the game shit, but I vehemently disagree with that statement. I had absolutely no problem with the pacing in Blood Money. Trying to break up levels with some action-packed chase is something I would find boring and repetitive.

There is a middle ground between 5hitman and lol Fanboys - IO can do no wrong - You're not a developer eat shit!

I am cautiously pessimistic.

 

[Incendiary]

I was hyped for this game. Now I just want to see what the fuck they're doing, because I don't really have a clue anymore.

This is basically the boat I'm in right now. I loved Contracts and Blood Money, so I'm trying to keep hopeful that this new Hitman game won't be terrible. But everything they've announced so far has made the game less appealing to me. Sure, it may be "more accessible" and appeal to a broader audience, but I'm personally looking for the Hitman series to stay the same: it had a unique approach that you don't see replicated in other games.

Making it broader and less unique might be better for business, but it loses my interest. To a CEO, I suppose that's a fair enough trade, if the broadening of the spectrum brings in the sales they're looking for.

What I hope doesn't happen is this "more accessible" Hitman fails because it doesn't grab the mass appeal audience they're looking for and the true Hitman fans also don't buy it because it's not what they're looking for. That results in a low point in sales, so the CEOs/execs/focus groups say "Oh, well the public clearly doesn't want a Hitman franchise so let's shelve it." Which then results in the Hitman fans raging even harder.

 

[gdt]

I HATE when devs kowtow to whatever the hardcore of the hardcore fanbase is yelling for. Just follow your vision, if it sucks, it sucks.

 

[The Antitype]

Yo, man, I respect you and everything but you're completely out of your element now.

LOL, that's a pretty tenuous level of respect if a differing opinion about one game franchise is all it takes to put me 'out of my element.'