John Bilbo
Gold Member
I found Sister Splinter to be easier than Savage Beastfly. The Savage Beastfly had most randomized variation in its patterns with the different kinds of mob enemies.
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Hollow Knight: Silksong |OT| It’s SHAW-time!!!!
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
- Featured
SilentSpecter
Member
First phase is a joke, second one you just hug the right wall and wait for the scissor move – then pogo away. Easy.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Better designed boss since it doesn't rely on add phases.
Beastfly and Splinter are only hard because of said add phases but once you get the pattern down they become easy.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Nah. There is other items that will allow you to explore certain areas you need. Those gold hoops you see? Places you think you need a double jump?
Keep playing.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Many places you think you need a double jump are actually accessible via Wall Jump if you get creative. The mobility and parkour you can do in the game is insane and it just gets better the further you get.
So what's the point of a second speed boost then? There isn't that many flat areas that I need to go even faster than the first one on.
EDIT I gave it a quick check. It might go a bit further but it doesn't let me make the jump I wanted to cut off part of a run back.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Move faster against bosses is the only benefit.
Aldric
Member
Yeah. I just finished this area a few minutes ago. Granted the nature of Silksong means that players will have access to what's an endgame or even postgame area very early so it only adds to their potential frustration but even after beating the final boss that wasn't fun at all. Absolutely terrible boss and enemies, and I had the crest that protected me from shit water too.I want to perfectly illustrate my fundamental issue with this game and why I could never give this higher than a 6/10 unless I'm missing a checkpoint. Sorry for crap phone quality.
My start point is there at the bottom left where you see hornet logo. The silk cocoon is as far as I've gotten in the top right.
No checkpoints as you can see full exploration everywhere.
Enemies every room, traps, poison, critters that eat away at your silk, tight platforming, and more.
11 separate large rooms so far and what looked to be a boss room in that upper left quadrant I haven't gone to yet.
How can someone design a game and think this is fair and fine?
Edit: Yep. Into a boss room. Incredible how far off the mark this game is. Anyone glazing this needs to get their head checked.
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DelireMan7
Member
New favorite boss : "Mechanical duo" (or whatever is the name in english) in Act 2.
This was so cool and refreshing to beat.
Not the hardest but that doesn't matter to me.
And love how the boss is just telling you exactly it's next move. No need to read animation. Just look and have reflexes.
This was so cool and refreshing to beat.
Not the hardest but that doesn't matter to me.
And love how the boss is just telling you exactly it's next move. No need to read animation. Just look and have reflexes.
SilentSpecter
Member
amigastar
Member
Yo, is that Kool Keith? Looks like him, lol.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I don't know but I do know Kool Keith!
amigastar
Member
No, its a guy called Robert E Blackmon apparently (idk who that is)
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Timberwolf25
Member
Dude starving for attention, but in a bad way.thumb.webp.6a70c30403ecc54096fd4b68465d9e45.webp)
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
I'd argue Widow is objectively easier which I guess means in reality means it's subjective.
Savage beastfly was much harder and more frustrating for me, constantly summoning in enemies, putting me in situations where multiple enemies were doing different things at the same time and cornering me. It's not as if widow is super easy, but you learn the patterns of the bells and you'll be ok.
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Timberwolf25
Member
Game is kicking my ass in one of those multi-mini boss rooms. I'm having a blast because I know I'm going to beat them....sometime soon....maybe
I'm pretty sure I was 1 or 2 hits away from killing the last of them, but like my MO in these type of game, I try not to use only the stupid nail and not any of the trap tool or spear.
I'm pretty sure I was 1 or 2 hits away from killing the last of them, but like my MO in these type of game, I try not to use only the stupid nail and not any of the trap tool or spear.
EruditeHobo
Member
I too had more trouble with Beastfly -- felt like I had fewer windows to heal, less respite in general, more crowded and perhaps a smaller-sized arena? -- but ranking difficulty is gonna depend on lots of things based on the person and their playstyle, I'd imagine.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
I found it to be a frustratingly bad fight and not fun. I think some of the other bosses are great though and they are very hard without putting mobs in a cramped space
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I didn't have any crest. Long trek, even with checkpoint, 5 waves of guys, then the boss.
Beat it and had 0 sense of accomplishment like when I beat a tough souls boss. Just a "fuck I'm glad to be over this."
When a player is actively being encouraged to be done with a part of your game because it sucks so many dicks, that should be a sign to you that you're screwing something up.
Did they have no one play test this other than themselves? Feels like an echo chamber resulted in them not realizing how whack that whole area is.
I beat the first sinner today and oddly enough that's my favorite boss. Why? Because when you failed you just walk in and try again. You don't lose your rosaries and just get to reboot the boss.
THATS what this game needs. "Retry" button. No cocoon no bench. Just let me go again.
touchfuzzy
Gold Member
Beastfly is an optional boss, important to note. You can just come back later and beat him with more abilities and it's not nearly as hard as if you get there with basically the beginning of the game kit. The dash and tools and crest I used made it much more manageable. Or you can just not fight him at all, I haven't even used the Crest you get from it.
Jsisto
Member
Yea that's kind of what I meant. Beast fly is hard solely because of the summons. Its attack patterns are way simpler and easier to react to. Whereas Widow was hard for me strictly because it took time learn the different patterns and tells. By the time I beat it the victory felt rewarding and earned.
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T-Cake
Member
It only reduces the amount of hits needed by about one with the first upgrade.
EruditeHobo
Member
I too felt a little of the RNG squeeze at times. Felt unfair in a way Widow doesn't. But it also, moreso than Widow, felt like honestly the biggest W in the game so far for me! So it's a balancing act, isn't it.
EruditeHobo
Member
Me neither, it sucks.
I only have 4, but is anything gonna fuck with Reaper? Reaper is amazing.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I'm in Greymoor and I just finished an arena area and got an item and after I left this area I no longer appear as an icon on the map so I can't tell where I am. Did what I acquired do this or is this a bug? Anyone know?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It auto equips your new crest when you binded the thing which doesn't have some of your support items equipped. You just got the Reaper Crest from the Reaper Chapel.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
too...many...fucking...annoying...lying...enemies. That is all I have.
kevboard
Member
you need to have the cpmpass equipped. there's a point at which you get your new Crest (a new moveset). at that spot it unequips all your tools, including your compass. so you gotta reach a bench to equip all your stuff again (and possibly switch back to the first crest if you don't like the new one or already had more slots unlocked on the old one)
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
There's been some tough bosses I guess but right now I have a side quest in the ward where I have to kill 2 normal enemies with scissors in a tiny confined area and that's like 300 times harder than any boss that fights you solo. I don't even have enough roof to jump up out of range consistently. I'm gonna leave it until later, I've wasted all my shards just hoping to get lucky against them.
simpatico
Gold Member
All it takes is persistence from me, and once I learn that dumb persistence works, it takes a lot of pressure off that I think some people are feeling. I also don't hesitate to look up boss cheese if I decide I've been stuck for too long. The way it usually ends up working, is I'll do another attempt on a sleep Saturday morning or something, and walkthrough it like it was nothing after sweating on it couple the previous couple sessions.
balls of snow
Member
Lace was fantastic. No bullshit just 1 v 1 fights are top tier.
Timberwolf25
Member
Beat that sub-bosses fairly easy later. Sometimes just taking a break and touching grass helps to reset.
I'm in no hurry to rush the game and probably over exploring everywhere to make sure I can't get to stuff I can see. I end up losing Rosaries, but they are fairly easy to farm, so not too worried about it.
For Rosaries, when I can, I convert them to string. You lose some in the conversion, but at least you don't get them permanently lost if you die before you get back to your web.
I do find the platforming definitely harder than HK, but I'm starting to get the hang of the diagonal pogo. Used with float, I can usually correct my self enough for the multi-pogo areas that require a switch in direction. Other than those mini-bosses that took more tries than the named bosses, I've only fought 1 tough boss that took more than 5 attempts.
simpatico
Gold Member
In my IRL RPG, I have to sleep for my skills in a certain video game to level up. I don't have access to them in the session I earn them in.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Last 2 nights have been very productive. From beating Widow to Ladt judge tonight and into act 2
Getting my HK reflexes back a bit, I was rusty
Getting my HK reflexes back a bit, I was rusty
MisterBrimstone
Member
I kinda agree with that. Everytime I quit the game to continue it at another time is being frustrated of the trip to the latest "fight room" that is whooping my ass.
It's boring to have to run many rooms everytime I die and it doesn't add anything to the challenge.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Game is fantastic. Just the right amount of challenge. It has a good difficulty curve, doesn't hold your hand like most games
Looks so damn good too
SilentSpecter
Member
If you're not a fan of Last Judge, you can just skip him and fight a much easier boss instead. 
PanzerAzel
Member
I think I'm about done with this.
My initial thoughts for the most pat I stand behind, but the further I progress, the challenge here is really souring me on the experience. I'm going to have to get my controller working on my computer and install the mod that makes all damage 1 mask to be able to give this another go. This game is significantly harder than Hollow Knight, and the type of challenge it is is honestly rubbing me wrongly.
There's a point in a game's design where challenge elevates gameplay to hold the player to task while also retaining a feeling of fun and fairness. This game, at far too many points, comes off as being difficult simply for the sake of being difficult and to give bragging rights, not to bring a challenge in hitting that sweet spot of balance in requiring the player to invest effort commensurate with the respective payoff given. It too often crosses the line into being frustrating and needlessly punitive. I keep trying to force myself to convince myself I want to play this, as I've been highly anticipating it for so long, but I'm slowly coming to the realization that I'm just not enjoying myself and I'm feeling more and more that I don't want to engage. That's always a huge red flag for me in games, and 99% of the time, if it happens, I put the game down and never return to it. I really, really don't want that to happen here, as aside the challenge design, I adore everything about it.
After some time put in, I think much of my grievance can be laid at the feet of the new healing system. It makes your health very binary, and removes any nuance of strategy in the discretion of trading silk for a minimal health boost at any time that may help you squeeze through an encounter, or deciding to to use it for abilities to finish the fight. Fights far too often feel like a race to keep frantically hitting the enemy to fill my silk meter to heal yet again instead of having the freedom to choose whether to heal, or to use abilities. I feel incredibly restricted in the freedom of my gameplay style due to this, created by the combination of a severely punishing damage model combined with a healing system that affords me nigh zero accommodation towards my own strategic discretions in tactical nuance. It strips the player of the intricacies of silk management, expending all of your silk if you only want to heal one or two masks (say, before a boss fight, because you're forced to run back through a ridiculous obstacle and enemy filled path). I think it would've been far better had they made that type of healing a perk for a certain crest or item you could equip, instead of the default system of health management overall. Or, they could've included both as a midde ground…...tapping the button once to heal one mask for a 1/3rd silk quickly, or deciding to wait until it's full and double tap to heal all at once, which would take a bit longer.
In playing this, I can understand some of Team Cherry's design philosophies, but I do feel that the execution did not quite land in terms of formulating a reasonable challenge that is both fair and fun. It feels like the game has been designed with a punitive degree of house advantage that it's unreasonably demanding of the player and pushes it to the realm of elite. The first game did not feel this way, I'd argue that the challenge was nigh perfectly implemented. It's undoubtably going to alienate a lot of players, which I think is really unfortunate as this is a title that really exudes a broad, dare I say "casual" appeal in its overall gist, and comes from developers who absolutely deserve all our support in the practices and goodwill they bring to the industry. As aside the challenge problems, I'm loving everything about this…..I'm just not going to be able to see it, and I'm coming to feel that, when held to a closer scrutiny of its chosen design…..that is not entirely my fault.
My initial thoughts for the most pat I stand behind, but the further I progress, the challenge here is really souring me on the experience. I'm going to have to get my controller working on my computer and install the mod that makes all damage 1 mask to be able to give this another go. This game is significantly harder than Hollow Knight, and the type of challenge it is is honestly rubbing me wrongly.
There's a point in a game's design where challenge elevates gameplay to hold the player to task while also retaining a feeling of fun and fairness. This game, at far too many points, comes off as being difficult simply for the sake of being difficult and to give bragging rights, not to bring a challenge in hitting that sweet spot of balance in requiring the player to invest effort commensurate with the respective payoff given. It too often crosses the line into being frustrating and needlessly punitive. I keep trying to force myself to convince myself I want to play this, as I've been highly anticipating it for so long, but I'm slowly coming to the realization that I'm just not enjoying myself and I'm feeling more and more that I don't want to engage. That's always a huge red flag for me in games, and 99% of the time, if it happens, I put the game down and never return to it. I really, really don't want that to happen here, as aside the challenge design, I adore everything about it.
After some time put in, I think much of my grievance can be laid at the feet of the new healing system. It makes your health very binary, and removes any nuance of strategy in the discretion of trading silk for a minimal health boost at any time that may help you squeeze through an encounter, or deciding to to use it for abilities to finish the fight. Fights far too often feel like a race to keep frantically hitting the enemy to fill my silk meter to heal yet again instead of having the freedom to choose whether to heal, or to use abilities. I feel incredibly restricted in the freedom of my gameplay style due to this, created by the combination of a severely punishing damage model combined with a healing system that affords me nigh zero accommodation towards my own strategic discretions in tactical nuance. It strips the player of the intricacies of silk management, expending all of your silk if you only want to heal one or two masks (say, before a boss fight, because you're forced to run back through a ridiculous obstacle and enemy filled path). I think it would've been far better had they made that type of healing a perk for a certain crest or item you could equip, instead of the default system of health management overall. Or, they could've included both as a midde ground…...tapping the button once to heal one mask for a 1/3rd silk quickly, or deciding to wait until it's full and double tap to heal all at once, which would take a bit longer.
In playing this, I can understand some of Team Cherry's design philosophies, but I do feel that the execution did not quite land in terms of formulating a reasonable challenge that is both fair and fun. It feels like the game has been designed with a punitive degree of house advantage that it's unreasonably demanding of the player and pushes it to the realm of elite. The first game did not feel this way, I'd argue that the challenge was nigh perfectly implemented. It's undoubtably going to alienate a lot of players, which I think is really unfortunate as this is a title that really exudes a broad, dare I say "casual" appeal in its overall gist, and comes from developers who absolutely deserve all our support in the practices and goodwill they bring to the industry. As aside the challenge problems, I'm loving everything about this…..I'm just not going to be able to see it, and I'm coming to feel that, when held to a closer scrutiny of its chosen design…..that is not entirely my fault.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
This mob shit is fucking infuriating. I've Just been running around everywhere trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be. I just beat an area with a tedious runback to a mob battle in deep deck with giant guys and exploding bomb throwers and the reward was...a flea. Wtf!? So its like, okay, that's not where I needed to go.
Now I'm fighting an insane mob battle in high halls where after you beat a few waves a giant red boss shows up that I've never seen before so I can't practice fighting them anywhere else. I finally squeak out a win against him and I really expected that to be it, but instead of that I have to fight multiple other waves followed by 2 giant red fucking bosses at the same time! UGH
Now I'm fighting an insane mob battle in high halls where after you beat a few waves a giant red boss shows up that I've never seen before so I can't practice fighting them anywhere else. I finally squeak out a win against him and I really expected that to be it, but instead of that I have to fight multiple other waves followed by 2 giant red fucking bosses at the same time! UGH
Fbh
Member
Beat Widow yesterday.
Probably my favorite boss so far, fun and frenetic but still very readable.
Loving the game so far, I'm still waiting for the frustration everyone is talking about to come, but I can only assume it's later on in the game. My only complaint so far, like many others, are the runbacks to bosses. It wasn't fun in the early Souls games, it wasn't fun in HK and it isn't fun here. If they didn't want to put a full on bench before every boss then some sort of temporary respawn point like the Stakes of Marika in Elden Ring would have been a good solution.
Probably my favorite boss so far, fun and frenetic but still very readable.
Loving the game so far, I'm still waiting for the frustration everyone is talking about to come, but I can only assume it's later on in the game. My only complaint so far, like many others, are the runbacks to bosses. It wasn't fun in the early Souls games, it wasn't fun in HK and it isn't fun here. If they didn't want to put a full on bench before every boss then some sort of temporary respawn point like the Stakes of Marika in Elden Ring would have been a good solution.
MisterBrimstone
Member
Yeah, I left that section for a later time. I think using and learning the parry skill is kinda mandatory.