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[PanzerAzel]

Yeah, the damage/healing system in this is why it's turning me off.

It heals 3 of my masks, not leaving that to my discretion. By my maths, that means each mask equates to 1/3rd of a spool of silk. Yet if I wish to heal 1 or 2 masks, it suddenly uses all of it. Why? Why are we using two different calculations here that penalizes the player in their discretions that favors one tactic over another? That 1/3rd-2/3rds lost silk is incredibly valuable. If the game is not going to allow me discretion over the degree of nuanced utilization to heal, the least it could do in turn is to be fair in the cost allocation when I exercise that discretion in varying contexts. This may strike as a minor quibble, but when the game penalizes me so harshly in the damage it hands out for mistakes, it needs to grant me consistency in game logic that is fair in rectifying them.

When a game fails to uphold its own logic in detrimentally penalizing the player, that doesn't feel fair. It feels like cheap and artificial difficulty.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

This battle in The Forum...lol

Edit: nvm, got it done on my 2nd attempt

 

[AJUMP23]

Let me just say. I hate them birds.

 

[Hookshot]

The game is such a slog I've put the spiked braclets on. If I'm going to die in two hits so I have to dodge everything, I might as well do double damage when attacking.

 

[simpatico]

Last 2 nights have been very productive. From beating Widow to Ladt judge tonight and into act 2

Getting my HK reflexes back a bit, I was rusty

See? I swear you don't have to be some thumb ninja to beat the regular game. People just forgot how to have persistence.

 

[Burger]

I've failed to do the birdcage after like 30 attempts. I gave up and am now trying to get the Wanderers Crest, but I cannot beat that mob either.

Is this a skill barrier thing? I'm thinking if I'm struggling here, the latter parts are just not going to be possible for my tiny brain.

 

[Arsic]

The game is such a slog I've put the spiked braclets on. If I'm going to die in two hits so I have to dodge everything, I might as well do double damage when attacking.

I don't think they do double damage which is why I don't use it. You take double damage but it seems you do like 25-33% more…

 

[ungalo]

I think the wanderer crest makes the game noticeably easier (for me at least), if you can get it it should help you a bit.

Honestly i'm in act 2, i don't think it's much more challenging (so far), the boss that gave me the most trouble is still that fucking fat fly. The first sessions were the most frustrating, i wanted to stop playing too.

 

[ssringo]

I'm at the endgame now, just running around doing as much cleanup as I can before doing the obvious path towards end bosses. Hopefully done tonight but certainly no later than tomorrow.

It'll be interesting on my second playthrough seeing if the frustrating areas and aspects remain as frustrating now that I'm no longer completely blind.

 

[JORMBO]

I finished Act 1 in 9 hours. I do think the upgrade pacing is very poor. I've not found any health upgrades yet and have gotten one weapon upgrade. After the weapon upgrade most enemies still take the same amount of hits. I'm sure I missed a few health items, but most videos I have seen at this point have the same HP I do.

The boss fights are fun and always feel fair. Aside from the annoying run back to Last Judge I think the bench placements so far have been good too.

 

[ungalo]

I finished Act 1 in 9 hours. I do think the upgrade pacing is very poor. I've not found any health upgrades yet and have gotten one weapon upgrade. After the weapon upgrade most enemies still take the same amount of hits. I'm sure I missed a few health items, but most videos I have seen at this point have the same HP I do.

The boss fights are fun and always feel fair. Aside from the annoying run back to Last Judge I think the bench placements so far have been good too.

You definitely can get one additional mask before you even fight the widow.

 

[Hookshot]

I finished Act 1 in 9 hours. I do think the upgrade pacing is very poor. I've not found any health upgrades yet and have gotten one weapon upgrade. After the weapon upgrade most enemies still take the same amount of hits. I'm sure I missed a few health items, but most videos I have seen at this point have the same HP I do.

The boss fights are fun and always feel fair. Aside from the annoying run back to Last Judge I think the bench placements so far have been good too.

In Act 1 I had one extra mask even without buying the piece from the first shop but I did a lot of exploring (1 more barely helped though). Only had the 1 damage upgrade.

 

[Hookshot]

I don't think they do double damage which is why I don't use it. You take double damage but it seems you do like 25-33% more…

Time to remove them then lol. Definitely seemed to bring about dazes quicker but maybe it was just me attacking quicker as I got better.

 

[touchfuzzy]

In Act 1 I had one extra mask even without buying the piece from the first shop but I did a lot of exploring (1 more barely helped though). Only had the 1 damage upgrade.

This is the annoying part of double damage too -- whether you have five masks or six, you still have to be looking for a window to heal after two hits. The next health upgrade will make a big difference though.

 

[Aldric]

I think the wanderer crest makes the game noticeably easier (for me at least), if you can get it it should help you a bit.

It helps a lot against some of the later bosses who tend to be extremely relentless and very fast paced. I was struggling a lot against

Spoiler

Lace and the First Sinner

because I stubbornly wanted to beat them with the reaper crest but then I had enough, switched to wanderer and beat them quite quickly. The extra DPS is very useful.

 

[BigLee74]

I think I'm about done with this.

My initial thoughts for the most pat I stand behind, but the further I progress, the challenge here is really souring me on the experience. I'm going to have to get my controller working on my computer and install the mod that makes all damage 1 mask to be able to give this another go. This game is significantly harder than Hollow Knight, and the type of challenge it is is honestly rubbing me wrongly.

There's a point in a game's design where challenge elevates gameplay to hold the player to task while also retaining a feeling of fun and fairness. This game, at far too many points, comes off as being difficult simply for the sake of being difficult and to give bragging rights, not to bring a challenge in hitting that sweet spot of balance in requiring the player to invest effort commensurate with the respective payoff given. It too often crosses the line into being frustrating and needlessly punitive. I keep trying to force myself to convince myself I want to play this, as I've been highly anticipating it for so long, but I'm slowly coming to the realization that I'm just not enjoying myself and I'm feeling more and more that I don't want to engage. That's always a huge red flag for me in games, and 99% of the time, if it happens, I put the game down and never return to it. I really, really don't want that to happen here, as aside the challenge design, I adore everything about it.

After some time put in, I think much of my grievance can be laid at the feet of the new healing system. It makes your health very binary, and removes any nuance of strategy in the discretion of trading silk for a minimal health boost at any time that may help you squeeze through an encounter, or deciding to to use it for abilities to finish the fight. Fights far too often feel like a race to keep frantically hitting the enemy to fill my silk meter to heal yet again instead of having the freedom to choose whether to heal, or to use abilities. I feel incredibly restricted in the freedom of my gameplay style due to this, created by the combination of a severely punishing damage model combined with a healing system that affords me nigh zero accommodation towards my own strategic discretions in tactical nuance. It strips the player of the intricacies of silk management, expending all of your silk if you only want to heal one or two masks (say, before a boss fight, because you're forced to run back through a ridiculous obstacle and enemy filled path). I think it would've been far better had they made that type of healing a perk for a certain crest or item you could equip, instead of the default system of health management overall. Or, they could've included both as a midde ground…...tapping the button once to heal one mask for a 1/3rd silk quickly, or deciding to wait until it's full and double tap to heal all at once, which would take a bit longer.

In playing this, I can understand some of Team Cherry's design philosophies, but I do feel that the execution did not quite land in terms of formulating a reasonable challenge that is both fair and fun. It feels like the game has been designed with a punitive degree of house advantage that it's unreasonably demanding of the player and pushes it to the realm of elite. The first game did not feel this way, I'd argue that the challenge was nigh perfectly implemented. It's undoubtably going to alienate a lot of players, which I think is really unfortunate as this is a title that really exudes a broad, dare I say "casual" appeal in its overall gist, and comes from developers who absolutely deserve all our support in the practices and goodwill they bring to the industry. As aside the challenge problems, I'm loving everything about this…..I'm just not going to be able to see it, and I'm coming to feel that, when held to a closer scrutiny of its chosen design…..that is not entirely my fault.

"Game too hard - no think i like."

I agree

 

[Nowa]

In Act 2, there so many little interconnected paths, shortcuts, secrets everywhere. And now there are 3 towns to do quests for. What a fucking game man, the content is insane, I'm having a blast.

 

[John Bilbo]

I beat The Last Judge. It was a fun fight once I got into the groove and also mastered the path to the boss.

 

[Hookshot]

I beat The Last Judge. It was a fun fight once I got into the groove and also mastered the path to the boss.

Dash, jump, dash, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump jump jump, dash, jump, bell, dash, jump, float, bell, jump jump jump, dash, jump, bell, jump jump jump, float.

 

[Doomtrain]

I beat Bilewater last night. In the moment, I hated most of it. The fake bench. The poison. The punitive platforming. The massive trek to the kill room at the end. The boss that spawns AFTER the kill room. Now that I've slept on it, in hindsight, I love it. This game hates you and I think I'm gradually coming around to respecting that.

 

[Timberwolf25]

If I progress to Act 2, is there anything I can't go back and get from Act 1? It doesn't seem to be gated that way, but I want to make sure.
Currently in Greymoor just exploring and probably have a lot of stuff I missed in the other areas too. I'm waiting for wall jump before going back in those areas again because I know I can't proceed without it.

Current abilities are float, dash/sprint.

I have the Reaper crest that lets you down pogo instead of diagonal and also a Dragon Punch type uppercut at the end of the sprint with attack, but I think I prefer the extra damage and charge strike of the OG crest better for now. Could be I'm not used to it yet and may switch back

 

[Donkaapo]

Finished it today with the True Ending after 36 Hours. Wasn't a Fan of the first Hollow Knight but with Silksong i had a blast from start to finish.

 

[kevboard]

If I progress to Act 2, is there anything I can't go back and get from Act 1? It doesn't seem to be gated that way, but I want to make sure.

I am at act 2 now, and so far it doesn't seem that way no... not sure tho...
it's just currently a hassle going back to the earlier areas, as I have yet to find a fast travel spot in the Act 2 areas.



@topic: the last judge is WAAAYY easier than she first seems. like, at first I was super intimidated by her, but if you just go about it slow, actually look at her attack patterns, and stop being greedy with the hits... she's actually insanely easy. her attack patterns are pretty simple to dodge, she has relatively obvious and long tells for each attack, and the arena IS MASSIVE, so plenty of space to dodge shit.

 

[T-Cake]

@topic: the last judge is WAAAYY easier than she first seems. like, at first I was super intimidated by her, but if you just go about it slow, actually look at her attack patterns, and stop being greedy with the hits... she's actually insanely easy. her attack patterns are pretty simple to dodge, she has relatively obvious and long tells for each attack, and the arena IS MASSIVE, so plenty of space to dodge shit.

Cool bro but I can't even get to that boss without losing nearly all my health on the jumping bits! :*( I hate the pogo-ing, it's just sheer luck if I manage to execute the jumps. I did try Sinner's Road but my god, that's got even more jumping on spikes!

 

[kevboard]

Cool bro but I can't even get to that boss without losing nearly all my health on the jumping bits! :*( I hate the pogo-ing, it's just sheer luck if I manage to execute the jumps.

really? after the third time going through that part I was basically on auto pilot. which crest do you use? the reaper crest makes pogoing way easier.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Cool bro but I can't even get to that boss without losing nearly all my health on the jumping bits! :*( I hate the pogo-ing, it's just sheer luck if I manage to execute the jumps. I did try Sinner's Road but my god, that's got even more jumping on spikes!

Something I found that made pogoing way easy, although I'm not anywhere near there, but instead of tapping down and attack, try holding down. Even for multiple pogo points, hold down unless you need to change direction on the pogo, then just quickly switch direction and then hold down. Also, if you need more time, float, change direction and then hold down.

 

[kevboard]

Something I found that made pogoing way easy, although I'm not anywhere near there, but instead of tapping down and attack, try holding down. Even for multiple pogo points, hold down unless you need to change direction on the pogo, then just quickly switch direction and then hold down. Also, if you need more time, float, change direction and then hold down.

also, and I don't know who needs to hear this, USE THE D-PAD... I've seen too many people online play this with the analog stick and clearly having issues doing precise inputs. I feel like pogoing on a stick would be insanely finicky.

in all the meme videos of people raging about the pogoing, you hear the analog stick clacking as they mash the stick back and forth.

 

[Timberwolf25]

also, and I don't know who needs to hear this, USE THE D-PAD... I've seen too many people online play this with the analog stick and clearly having issues doing precise inputs. I feel like pogoing on a stick would be insanely finicky.

in all the meme videos of people raging about the pogoing, you hear the analog stick clacking as they mash the stick back and forth.

I'm doing fine with analog and played HK with analog, but I can see that it is easier to miss inputs with it. I just haven't used the D-Pad since the Saturn, so will probably have a hard time adjusting to it.

 

[kevboard]

I'm doing fine with analog and played HK with analog, but I can see that it is easier to miss inputs with it. I just haven't used the D-Pad since the Saturn, so will probably have a hard time adjusting to it.

 

[kubricks]

also, and I don't know who needs to hear this, USE THE D-PAD... I've seen too many people online play this with the analog stick and clearly having issues doing precise inputs. I feel like pogoing on a stick would be insanely finicky.

in all the meme videos of people raging about the pogoing, you hear the analog stick clacking as they mash the stick back and forth.

I beat OG Hollow knight with Switch's 4-direction button because it was so hard to pogo precisely with analog stick lol.
D-pad makes everything so much easier.

 

[kevboard]

I beat OG Hollow knight with Switch's 4-direction button because it was so hard to pogo precisely with analog stick lol.
D-pad makes everything so much easier.

oh god, that's also not an optimal scenario tho

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

I decided to use a guide to show me where to go next. Not the optimal way to play metroidvanias generally, which are usually about exploration and discovery, but the frustrating mob gauntlets in tight arenas are getting really old so if it's possible to have some useful gear or a bigger life bar for those fights then I should probably do so

 

[Nowa]

Does anyone know where is the second simple key lock? The first is the lava area, the second one I forgot.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Only ever used the D-pad for fighting games. If the controller had analog sticks, I defaulted to using those. And since I got a fight stick, I've just never played games with the D-pad.
It goes mostly unused on almost all the games I play unless a quick action can be mapped to it.

 

[PanzerAzel]

"Game too hard - no think i like."

I agree

No problem with a game being difficult, but when it's cheaply difficult by its inconsistency in internal game logic that disadvantages the player….I generally don't like games that do so. I don't find that fair to the player, and not by a "git gud" standard, but by hard maths.

If someone wants to explain to me why the game in one instance says a mask is worth 1/3 of my silk, and then completely throws that logic away when I could benefit from that silk, I'd appreciate hearing it.

 

[kevboard]

No problem with a game being difficult, but when it's cheaply difficult by its inconsistency in internal game logic that disadvantages the player….I generally don't like games that do so. I don't find that fair to the player, and not by a "git gud" standard, but by hard maths.

If someone wants to explain to me why the game in one instance says a mask is worth 1/3 of my silk, and then completely throws that logic away when I could benefit from that silk, I'd appreciate hearing it.

using the silk can be seen as casting magic. and maybe you need a specific amount of silk to cast the healing spell, no matter what? just like you can't just cast a smaller silk spear if you have less silk.
that would be a decent in-universe explanation

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Does anyone know where is the second simple key lock? The first is the lava area, the second one I forgot.

seems to be more than 2 I think. Another one is a green bugs cell in sinners road. I'm sure i've seen one in the citadel somewhere also.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Does anyone know where is the second simple key lock? The first is the lava area, the second one I forgot.

I'm not playing it anymore but I recall there being one above and to the left of the starting village. If you take that elevator up and keep going up and then jump across on top of those hanging cages.

 

[PanzerAzel]

using the silk can be seen as casting magic. and maybe you need a specific amount of silk to cast the healing spell, no matter what? just like you can't just cast a smaller silk spear if you have less silk.
that would be a decent in-universe explanation

Except the game, in utilizing a full silk bar to fill three masks, already hard defines 33% per mask. If you're down two masks, silk cost rises to 50%. One mask? 100% cost.

It's the inconsistency in defining an amount in one context, yet not honoring it in another, that's the problem. The game gives no explanation for this, and it feels like the developers are penalizing me for the option they allow me.

 

[kevboard]

Except the game, in utilizing a full silk bar to fill three masks, already hard defines 33% per mask. If you're down two masks, silk cost rises to 50%. One mask? 100% cost.

It's the inconsistency in defining an amount in one context, yet not honoring it in another, that's the problem. The game gives no explanation for this, and it feels like the developers are penalizing me for the option they allow me.

bro, that's nearly every game on the market.
why can't you just drink half a healing potion in Fable? half an estus flask in Dark Souls? why can't I only drink half a Shield Potion in Fortnite? makes just as little logical sense in-universe,
and in fact makes less sense than a set amount of magical thread being needed to cast a specific spell

 

[TropicanaTwista]

The long ass never ending enemy spawn battle in the forum in high halls is so lame. This is exactly what I hate in difficult games. I don't give a shit that it's hard, but it's like 10 waves of tough enemies with minimal time to heal, with pretty much every move taking 2 health points and tanky ass enemies.It's absurd

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Found that Crustnut, just need to find the Muckmaggot to finish this sidequest, pretty sure about the area to find it

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Does anyone know where is the second simple key lock? The first is the lava area, the second one I forgot.

I found another one, in the forum area below high halls near where you fight a really long boss gauntlet with 2 big red dudes at the end

 

[Timberwolf25]

Just beat Widow and did some premature celebrating before I realized she had another phase and got wrecked while I wasn't looking...damn it.
Fun fight though. Done for the night, but she's going down tomorrow for sure.

 

[Dacvak]

I beat The Last Judge. It was a fun fight once I got into the groove and also mastered the path to the boss.

That boss absolutely fuuuuucked me up last night. I was admittedly drunk, so I wasn't at my best, but it took me forever to finally beat it.

 

[DelireMan7]

Game really makes some focus on hard challenge sometimes. Rage quiet a bit on a lava area with the flying enemies throwing big fireball that deal 2 damage. You're on a platform surrounding by lava and these fuckers throwing shit at you...
Then a small arena with many enemies including those. The final round ? 2 of these one throwing hellfire at you. Did I mention they explode on death for 2 masks damage too ?

Overall I explore a lot but didn't find any new crest so far. I have only the 3 from the early areas.
I really like the Beast one. You can't heal if there is no enemies around but the damage boost you get when activating it is really good. And I love the down air attack. Need some adjustment for pogo but now it's a second nature for me.
I switch a bit to other if I need some defensive tools (no defensive socket on the beast).

Except the game, in utilizing a full silk bar to fill three masks, already hard defines 33% per mask. If you're down two masks, silk cost rises to 50%. One mask? 100% cost.

I don't get the complaint. It's like many games. In Fromsoft game, you use one full estus whether you heal 10 hp or 500 hp. In Last of Us, you use one full kit if you heal 10 hp or 200 hp.
Usually you don't heal with 1 mask missing. I sometimes do it when I miss 2 depending on the situation.
And after 2/3 silk upgrades, after a heal you just need a couple of it to be able to heal again.

Silksong is much more focus on difficulty than Hollow Knight, but the one area where it's much easier is healing. The healing in Silksong is OP compare to HK.
In HK you had to be grounded and hold the button to recover one mask and it was difficult to find a window during bosses.
In Silksong it's a simple press, you can do it on air and it keeps you mid air which gives plenty of opportunity of safe heal while dodging a ground attack. You recover 3 masks in more a less the same time you recover 1 mask in HK.
So if you're low on HP, you can quickly turn the tide in one press of a button. In HK, to recover from low health was really stressful and double damage bosses were something else since you couldn't immediately negates a hit with a heal.

Healing in Silksong is literally the gift the dev made to the player to compensate the difficulty for me. If it was like in HK, it would be so much harder.

 

[John Bilbo]

In HK you had to be grounded and hold the button to recover one mask and it was difficult to find a window during bosses.
In Silksong it's a simple press, you can do it on air and it keeps you mid air which gives plenty of opportunity of safe heal while dodging a ground attack.

Yes I think the healing is well balanced. It always takes the same amount of time so you get a feel for when is the right time to heal.

I almost always jump in the air when healing. Especially during a boss fight.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I like the game, but it just isn't what I want to play right now. I love the combat and difficulty, but hate that I can't remember how to get anywhere, and find myself going in circles. The maps I purchased don't seem to help too much, even when I equip the compass.

I fought a boss and died, and couldn't remember how o got there and ran into a different boss. 2 hours later, I still can't find that boss I died at.

 

[DelireMan7]

I like the game, but it just isn't what I want to play right now. I love the combat and difficulty, but hate that I can't remember how to get anywhere, and find myself going in circles. The maps I purchased don't seem to help too much, even when I equip the compass.

I fought a boss and died, and couldn't remember how o got there and ran into a different boss. 2 hours later, I still can't find that boss I died at.

When you buy the map, it just show you parts of the area. Then when you explore, it will be fully uncover when you rest (or die). Like that you can see which path you explored. And on the map you see your cocoon (where you die) so you see where is the boss.

 

[Stafford]

Is this more challenging than HK or about the same? I mean I saw reports about already some nerfs happening for a boss or two?