John Bilbo
Gold Member
After the beginning there are some zones with a brutal difficulty spike. I think at least some of those areas are optional. If you push through the amp in difficulty you gain several new tools to ease you into the game.
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Hollow Knight: Silksong |OT| It’s SHAW-time!!!!
- Thread starter cormack12
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T-Cake
Member
I'm on the crest which gives you extra silk balls. I haven't found the Reaper one.
DelireMan7
Member
I'd say quite more challenging. You very quickly meet enemies, bosses and environmental hazards that do 2 damage. And overall some quite challenging set up with nasty enemy placement.
Difficult to say for me now but maybe the "main path" is easier. I am sure one of the early area I found is optional and was very challenging.
But you adapt to it. Still it's definitely way more challenging than HK.
DelireMan7
Member
Isn't that the Reaper one ? The one that gives extra silk when hitting enemies.
Stafford
Member
Oh damn. Well, I still have HK left to continue with and it's been so long I honestly am not entirely sure where I left at, but I did defeat quite a few bosses.
DelireMan7
Member
Difficult to came back in a middle of a metroidvania run, especially HK, after a long time
Stafford
Member
True, but probably mostly knowing where to go. I think I'll get the hang of the controls pretty quickly.
It's tail end of HK difficult. Which is insane for the start of a game, and supposedly gets easier as you unlock abilities. HK also had some arenas, but nothing on the scale of SS that has them everywhere and really screw with just wanting to explore the map.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
ok, things went much better after resorting to looking up guides showing where to go next. I've killed a bunch of bosses and got some great gear. I even had a rematch with my nemesis savage beastfly, which I thought might go better with my new kit, but it still was a nightmare on account of a disappearing floor and fireball spewing minions being summoned. Hopefully there isn't a third encounter.
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Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
Is this fight supposed to be THAT difficult or is it a me problem?
Before we can learn the conductor's melody in The Forum/High Halls/Citadel there is a gauntlet and I'm just not able to kill the beetle-like enemy with his hammer that can do magical charge attacks when there are 2 at the same time. When he's first on his own, sometimes I can manage to kill it without getting hit but I just can't where there are 2. Any useful strategies? I have 6 "hearts" and have upgraded my nail twice so far.
ssringo
Member
I only vaguely remember the gauntlet fights. But for me, tools have proven to be more valuable in those gauntlets than the needle. I like the triple knife and boomerang the most for doing a lot of damage to clear out multiple enemies that are a pain.
Timberwolf25
Member
From the shop, you can get markers, you get several markers. Use the markers from the menu map right on your character on the compass right before the fight starts or even mid-fight since you can pause anytime to place it.
It should help at least no where the fight is.
Also, do you have the quill that updates the map (when you get them) each time you rest?
It's no guarantee you won't get lost, but at least you'll know where in the map something of interest is.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Yeah, I have the quill that adds the benches to the map. I guess I didn't know I'd need to be a map maker too, lol. I purchased all the little pins/markers. I guess I just need to use them.
Now if the design actually rewarded you with those tools for beating the earlier arena or boss fights. The fact they don't even offer bead drops so you have to mindlessly farm to afford them just points to a broken/ill designed economy.
T-Cake
Member
Haven't a clue!
I definitely haven't got the pogo straight down one. I'm guessing it's behind one of the doors with the simple lock.
Timberwolf25
Member
No, I got the Reaper Crest and never got one of those keys so for sure not behind a lock.Haven't a clue!
I don't remember where though.
For some areas, the diagonal pogo platforming was better for me than the down pogo from the Reaper Crest. Also, the lunge attack from the default at the end of a sprint I find better than the dragon punch attack for me.
It's good to be able to switch though, because for 1 of the bosses, the reaper was definitely more helpful.
DelireMan7
Member
Hum you might check because the one that give extra silk, is the reaper one. The pogo is quite similar to the HK one with this one.Haven't a clue!
Nintendo's Witch
Member
I'm enjoying the game for what it is, like its predecessor, a competent game, well made and a good metroidvania. Nothing to write home about and absolutely not a GOTY contender, best game of all times and similar delusional bullshit you read everyday from its hardcore annoying fan base. Far from deserving the exhausting anticipation it got all these agonising years.. As for the difficulty, it is hard but I grew up in the 8-bit era so…
It could cut the bullshit with all the unnecessary traversal due to deliberate stupid placement of checkpoints designed to artificially increase the game time and waste player's time.
Like the original game is a 7.5/10 game 8 at most.
It could cut the bullshit with all the unnecessary traversal due to deliberate stupid placement of checkpoints designed to artificially increase the game time and waste player's time.
Like the original game is a 7.5/10 game 8 at most.
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EruditeHobo
Member
Haven't a clue!
Silk ball generation is the reaper. And it does pogo pretty much down. So... check which one you have on and let us know.
A number of crests are in the chapels, not behind simple locks. At least from what I've seen so far... I'm still in Act 1 taking my sweet time at 23 hours or something.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
About to fight The Widow this one feels like it'll be tougher than some of the more recent ones, I'll see. It sucks, my post COVID issues have really impacted my ability to play games like this. It did something to my central nervous system where tension causes my brain to go haywire and have crippling pain and migraines and any time I get into a tense moment in life or in a video game, it triggers it. Fighting these bosses and playing through tense game moments has been literal real life agony for me, but I'm not allowing this fucking disease to rob me of one of my life's greatest passions. I'll have a stroke before I do that.
PectacularOz
Member
Nope. Im out.
20+ hours in and I have absolutely every upgrade possible thus far - but literal HOURS AND HOURS of repeated attempts at either the last judge or Phantom with no progress - just flat out not fun. Like, zero fun to be had, wtf is the point?
Team Cherry flat out took 7 years on thier asses and rushed it out at the last minute without playtests.
Done. Good luck y'all
20+ hours in and I have absolutely every upgrade possible thus far - but literal HOURS AND HOURS of repeated attempts at either the last judge or Phantom with no progress - just flat out not fun. Like, zero fun to be had, wtf is the point?
Team Cherry flat out took 7 years on thier asses and rushed it out at the last minute without playtests.
Done. Good luck y'all
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Last Judge is doable, do you have the item from deep docks that halves fire damage? Also I think it's called the wanderer crest, it attacks quicker so you can hit it multiple times when it lands from jumps or dodges by you. in P2 Try to stay in the middle so you have plenty of space to dodge fire and the exploding flail attack.
also you can spam tool attacks when it's doing the fire moves, as you have to be slower with the attacks in p2.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Even though I dropped it, I really do get what people see in it to a large degree. However like you, I don't get the absurd levels of hype and praise. 10/10s and game of the generation and shit? Come on. I just don't see what Silksong does better than a game like Blasphemous II for example which has a lot of similar design philosophies but feels a lot tighter and less unwieldy and inelegant.
The aesthetics are unique and I think the game has a ton of charm because of it but aside from that, there's a lot of really baffling elements that feel like difficulty for difficulty's sake. The game often goes out of its way to introduce "friction" in ways that isn't even challenging or interesting for seemingly no apparent reason imo. Why the hell would clear-cut farming spots need to exist because benches cost money? It's like 1+1 = 0. If you noticed, they legit put farming spots near areas with "tolls", it's silly to me. There were many moments in my 11 hours where I just stood still for a sec and audibly went uhhh why?
I'm not saying people shouldn't like this stuff but it reminds me a lot of Hotline Miami 2. A sequel I fucking love but I absolutely get why it objectively is an obnoxious sequel. It's often bloated, unwieldy and fucking cheap. I beat that game on Hard for some reason but even with that, calling it some 10/10 masterpiece would be ridiculous. It's flawed but I happen to love it warts and all. Silksong reminds me of that but I happen to not like it enough to deal with its bullshit.
kevboard
Member
the Last Judge is not a hard boss.
learn the patterns, be patient, learn when there's an opening.
she and her attacks are intimidating visually, but once you just break her mechanics down and get used to them, she's really simple.
I was completely stunned at first too when I fought her the first 3 or 4 times, but at some point I just played it safe and calm, at which point she felt downright easy.
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The random P3 one new move, used only once bullshit killed me twice. just suddenly many more fire walls that seemed to spawn on me. Then in a try I had enough room to avoid it all and it was no different to the rest of it.
SupaComputa
Member
Only 5 hours in the game, but I haven't seen anything difficult to be honest, it's mostly tedious. Run-of-the-mill enemies tank 4-5 hits and yourself are quite sturdy with the healing, it just slow things down for no reason. I prefer glass canon gameplay, killing jobbers in 1-2 hits and dying easier too.
7.5 - 8 is still way above average and it is cheap so it is way above average value too.
Timberwolf25
Member
And the Widow goes down!!!
For real this time
Fight was so fun even though it took 20 times or so.
In the end, I just turned off all other distractions and focused up and finished her within 3 attempts.
For real this time
Fight was so fun even though it took 20 times or so.
In the end, I just turned off all other distractions and focused up and finished her within 3 attempts.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
And the Widow goes down!!!
For real this time
Fight was so fun even though it took 20 times or so.
In the end, I just turned off all other distractions and focused up and finished her within 3 attempts.
This was indeed a great battle. Very enjoyable.
I got to The Judge. Very impressive entrance. The problem with this boss is the path to get to her, extremely annoying.
touchfuzzy
Gold Member
And the Widow goes down!!!
For real this time
Fight was so fun even though it took 20 times or so.
In the end, I just turned off all other distractions and focused up and finished her within 3 attempts.
Widow was pretty easy when I brought in my new strategy -- once I die I save a recording and just watch it back. It's much easier to figure out the patterns and such when you're not trying to also play. In the case of Widow, I identified a (mostly) safe spot on the wall where you can stick to in phase 2 to not really have to worry about all the chaos, and after that it was pretty pedestrian to finish her off.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
That's actually a great idea. My dumb ass just figured out to just screenshot instead of taking a picture of the screen with my fucking phone...
John Bilbo
Gold Member
I'd recommend mastering the path first. It can be shortened quite a bit with running and pogoing on enemies to bells.
The path is kinda a boss battle in it's own. Once you master it it becomes a whole lot easier to focus on learning The Judge.
Paltheos
Member
My fun with this game is all over the place. Sometimes I'm having a blast; other times I'm cursing the game.
Just reached my newest blockade, tougher than the Savage Beastfly refight - The trek through Bilewater. I've got all the upgrades for as-easy-as-possible traversal, and I actually like the area on its own. It's a fun challenge. It's how punishing and how long the boss runback is. I'm someone who didn't really mind the runback in Blasted Steps; I'd gotten a rhythm down to it, and the only stumbling block could be that one shield dude you bounce off of who can infrequently decide to follow you left after the bounce. Bilewater's runback is just ruthless. Landing in the goop from a maneuvering error is worse than two masks of damage from spikes, and there are multiple enemies in the path that can be uncooperative so it's difficult to automate.
On a positive side, I'm here by accident. I had just finished cleanup in act 1 areas and was trying to continue exploring the citadel but found the way to this whole new area unintentionally. A little similar to the Hollow Knight feel of being stupefied about finding yet another new area but not quite as impactful this time since I saw it coming (and maybe going up isn't as stressful as going down? although ironically I found this area by dropping down).
Last Judge's fire walls can be a little tricky. In the first phase she calls them the strat is to find a spot and chill until she's done, but in the next phase you need to move (and you can get forced into a hit if you're unlucky and by a wall).
I don't know if there are more optimal strategies out there, but Curveclaw + Pollip Pouch (for auto-adding poison to my tools) helped a lot for adding ranged damage. Play at the sweet spot for the boomerang to hit multiple times and then let the DOT do its thing until you can go in. For the other red tool I used the Flea Brew to get in a bunch of attacks between phases, mainly because it's replenished on a resource that isn't shards (and a resource you don't need until you run out of the brew from your surprisingly generous reserve). I also died a lot against Last Judge, but her attacks are readable.
Just reached my newest blockade, tougher than the Savage Beastfly refight - The trek through Bilewater. I've got all the upgrades for as-easy-as-possible traversal, and I actually like the area on its own. It's a fun challenge. It's how punishing and how long the boss runback is. I'm someone who didn't really mind the runback in Blasted Steps; I'd gotten a rhythm down to it, and the only stumbling block could be that one shield dude you bounce off of who can infrequently decide to follow you left after the bounce. Bilewater's runback is just ruthless. Landing in the goop from a maneuvering error is worse than two masks of damage from spikes, and there are multiple enemies in the path that can be uncooperative so it's difficult to automate.
On a positive side, I'm here by accident. I had just finished cleanup in act 1 areas and was trying to continue exploring the citadel but found the way to this whole new area unintentionally. A little similar to the Hollow Knight feel of being stupefied about finding yet another new area but not quite as impactful this time since I saw it coming (and maybe going up isn't as stressful as going down? although ironically I found this area by dropping down).
Last Judge's fire walls can be a little tricky. In the first phase she calls them the strat is to find a spot and chill until she's done, but in the next phase you need to move (and you can get forced into a hit if you're unlucky and by a wall).
I don't know if there are more optimal strategies out there, but Curveclaw + Pollip Pouch (for auto-adding poison to my tools) helped a lot for adding ranged damage. Play at the sweet spot for the boomerang to hit multiple times and then let the DOT do its thing until you can go in. For the other red tool I used the Flea Brew to get in a bunch of attacks between phases, mainly because it's replenished on a resource that isn't shards (and a resource you don't need until you run out of the brew from your surprisingly generous reserve). I also died a lot against Last Judge, but her attacks are readable.
PanzerAzel
Member
This isn't TLoU. That is a game where its logic holds basis in the real world in its justification. Not so with Silksong. The franchise has established in its previous iteration that healing was hard defined in the particular mechanic from the first game, and gives zero explanation as to why that logic no longer is applicable in the second. Suddenly we're dealing with three different maths re healing. First they remove the ability for me to control nuance in regard to healing, and then they penalize me for exercising said nuance in contexts that I deem suitable to my playstyle. Sure, healing is simpler.....it's also mandated. I don't find the healing system here to be a blessing at all, I find it robs the player of the freedom of playstyle nuance in their discretion to heal, sometimes a little, maybe a lot, or to fight and utilize abilities. I never wish to utilize my abilities lest I need to immediately heal if the boss spurs minions or corners me and I take two hits in 5 seconds.
Brute forcing your way through fights or demanding an incredibly high skill ceiling and stubborn perseverance can mitigate poor balancing and engagement design, sure.....that does not mean it's good design.
Paltheos
Member
Phew, nvm. Just got it. I had a good run to the boss and I'd changed up my tool set to poisoned Straight Pin + Curveclaw. I used a few of the Curveclaws during the ad phase and otherwise tossed everything at the boss, and blitzing him down like that worked (helped that I have all the tool damage upgrades and two of the pouch capacity ones). Curveclaw continues being the best.
DelireMan7
Member
Does Dark Souls also base it's logic on real word ?
Estus will be consume no matter the amount of heal.
You need an in lore explanation for the change of healing ?
In HK, you are the Knight which use soul to heal and use his power.
Now it's Hornet a totally different being (much different in nature that the Knight) and she's using silk yo use her power. So it can explain the change and healing (and why we have a different upgrade system).
Anyway, I really don't get you complaint.
Your issue seems present in many games with all healing system.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
I don't like the new healing at all.
Doomtrain
Member
This is a very strange complaint to me. The vast majority of games with healing mechanics make you waste however much of the heal goes above your max. It's far and away more common than what you're describing. The design mechanic is that you end up doing a cost/benefit analysis. Say you're two pips down and you find a good opening. Do you want to expend your entire meter to heal to full right now? Or do you want to save the meter to heal an additional pip later, but risk not having a good opening to do so? This is pretty standard stuff.
kevboard
Member
that one got me the first time I got that far. the second time I again noticed that keeping calm and just focusing on dodging made it pretty simple to avoid.
thankfully the rest of her moveset doesn't really change, it's only that 1 new move
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Step ya game up
(boss battles should have had a Stake of Marika mechanic alá Elden Ring)
I have to say, I don't think I've played a game that trolls the player more than Silksong and I say that as a Souls OG lol. I love it though, I imagine the devs laughing maniacally while designing some of this stuff
I'm at what I assume is the Act 2 boss, went back to previous areas and somehow managed to still find stuff I missed, not to mention the double jump which I completely passed by, lucky I explored West of that Bell Beast station which I didn't do the first time I passed through there. Kind of crazy they would make the Double Jump optional (as far as I can tell), it's such a core mechanic of the genre and something the player looks forward to getting most.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Just beat the game in its entirety.
This is a long post. TLDR: I love the game, I fucking hate the game. This game single handedly, as I approach 38 years old, has convinced me I will never ever play another souls like game again. Ever.
—-
There's a LOT to appreciate in this game and the 50 hours I spent with it. There's no hand holding and unlike a from soft title the difficulty isn't just at bosses. Every single screen you move through in all biomes is designed with the intent to kill you, challenge you, get you to engage with it. 200 unique enemies, tons to explore, a very fleshed out game world, mythos, lore. An absolutely gorgeous game you can play 20 years from now and it won't have aged a day.
It's unapologetic. It knows what it wants to be, it does what it sets out to do, and from start to finish will keep one upping itself all the way to the finish line.
The soundtrack is aces, and a lot of the characters are standouts.
So one half of me says this is a 10/10 masterpiece and one of the greatest games ever made.
The other half of me? Thinks these devs spent way too much time in 8 years in an echo chamber huffing their own farts, ignoring previous game feedback, and did not want anyone to play test this.
There are numerous moments in this game where you see blatantly the dev designed something to fuck over the player. Like going from long ass sections in bile water to a 5 wave enemy room into the boss. Driving you bat shit insane. Climbing coral tower for 3 rooms of 10-15 waves in each section, before a 4th wave room into a boss fight. Your patience and sanity is tested by egregious amounts of horse shit. The pogo only doesn't suck with reaper crest and I'd argue reaper is the only crest worth using except harvester I think it was which I used for final boss.
I've had dropped inputs, bugs like stuck in the wall on the final boss ruining a good run forcing me to relaunch the game to try again, issues with the pogo.
The devs I believe worked on this half of the time with one lead dev and second half for another because there is clearly bosses here where the checkpoint is right on the boss to relaunch it. Then there's the last judge gauntlet run to try again kinds of lack of respect for the players time.
The game is inconsistent in its design, and feels like some levels were fully fleshed out and others cancelled half way into development.
Did I have fun with the game? No. I have no idea what possessed me to keep playing. The challenge is all there was holding me for 50 hours and bragging rights. But to who? None of my friends picked it up or care to. And GAF doesn't give a fuck if I beat silksong lol. I don't feel a sense of accomplishment. The two bosses I liked were the dancing ant queen in act 3, and the final boss. They felt good, challenging, and I felt rewarded. Everything else can fuck off and eat shit.
Lastly the currency systems are rotten dicks. Cost of everything is way too high. And getting bones to keep using tools stopped being a thing like half way into the game. Never had enough.
——
Would I recommend this game? No. What would I rate it? 5/10 one day and 10/10 another. It's the most polarizing shit I've ever subjected myself to.
This is a long post. TLDR: I love the game, I fucking hate the game. This game single handedly, as I approach 38 years old, has convinced me I will never ever play another souls like game again. Ever.
—-
There's a LOT to appreciate in this game and the 50 hours I spent with it. There's no hand holding and unlike a from soft title the difficulty isn't just at bosses. Every single screen you move through in all biomes is designed with the intent to kill you, challenge you, get you to engage with it. 200 unique enemies, tons to explore, a very fleshed out game world, mythos, lore. An absolutely gorgeous game you can play 20 years from now and it won't have aged a day.
It's unapologetic. It knows what it wants to be, it does what it sets out to do, and from start to finish will keep one upping itself all the way to the finish line.
The soundtrack is aces, and a lot of the characters are standouts.
So one half of me says this is a 10/10 masterpiece and one of the greatest games ever made.
The other half of me? Thinks these devs spent way too much time in 8 years in an echo chamber huffing their own farts, ignoring previous game feedback, and did not want anyone to play test this.
There are numerous moments in this game where you see blatantly the dev designed something to fuck over the player. Like going from long ass sections in bile water to a 5 wave enemy room into the boss. Driving you bat shit insane. Climbing coral tower for 3 rooms of 10-15 waves in each section, before a 4th wave room into a boss fight. Your patience and sanity is tested by egregious amounts of horse shit. The pogo only doesn't suck with reaper crest and I'd argue reaper is the only crest worth using except harvester I think it was which I used for final boss.
I've had dropped inputs, bugs like stuck in the wall on the final boss ruining a good run forcing me to relaunch the game to try again, issues with the pogo.
The devs I believe worked on this half of the time with one lead dev and second half for another because there is clearly bosses here where the checkpoint is right on the boss to relaunch it. Then there's the last judge gauntlet run to try again kinds of lack of respect for the players time.
The game is inconsistent in its design, and feels like some levels were fully fleshed out and others cancelled half way into development.
Did I have fun with the game? No. I have no idea what possessed me to keep playing. The challenge is all there was holding me for 50 hours and bragging rights. But to who? None of my friends picked it up or care to. And GAF doesn't give a fuck if I beat silksong lol. I don't feel a sense of accomplishment. The two bosses I liked were the dancing ant queen in act 3, and the final boss. They felt good, challenging, and I felt rewarded. Everything else can fuck off and eat shit.
Lastly the currency systems are rotten dicks. Cost of everything is way too high. And getting bones to keep using tools stopped being a thing like half way into the game. Never had enough.
——
Would I recommend this game? No. What would I rate it? 5/10 one day and 10/10 another. It's the most polarizing shit I've ever subjected myself to.
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TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I've played several games in the past few years with the rise of Git Guddery that made me stop at one point and go...is this...fun? Do I enjoy this? The answer has been a resounding no only a few times. In those I realized I just finished a game, or continued on, in the same way I refuse to give up on some shitty home or car repair task I started and am too proud to admit I wasn't qualified to do.
I remember playing the Doom Eternal DLC and randomly pausing the game, having an existential crisis like this and literally uninstalling it on the spot lol. Did the same when Elden Ring wouldn't fucking end and during Nioh DLC.
JORMBO
Darkness no more
That's how I have been feeling about the game too. In Act 1 I really enjoyed exploring and it mostly all felt fair. The bosses are well designed, the map is fine, the art and music are great, etc. Then I got to Act 2 and most of the enemies take a lot longer to kill. Every screen is jam packed with enemies and often tricky jumps. Random enemies or slightly tapping something in the environment doing 2 dmg gets draining after awhile. Then when you die far into a zone the bench was far back and you end up redoing it all a bunch of times. Not a lot of room to breathe in Act 2 so far and most of the difficulty just feels really forced and tedious. It stopped being fun. Act 1 felt better paced and more fair. Overall the games highs have been really high and the lows really low.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I'm very convinced two people at two different times of development took the reins as lead. Act 3 is the most generous act in a lot of ways while being rewarding for what is on offer.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Bile Swamp boss and runback (even with the secret savepoint I discovered) is 10x worse than the Last Judge, you boys better brace yourselves lol.
Edit: as is often the case, right after posting I beat it
Edit: as is often the case, right after posting I beat it
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EruditeHobo
Member
Finally done with act 1. Last boss wasn't hard at all, just took a few times to figure it out and get comfy. Fun fight tho.
27 hours and now on top of citadel. All quests done. Think I'm right at another boss? But haven't checked the arena next to bench yet.
27 hours and now on top of citadel. All quests done. Think I'm right at another boss? But haven't checked the arena next to bench yet.
LavitzSlambert
Member
Yeah, Wanderer's crest is awesome. I love the slots too when fully upgraded, very convenient for exploring but balanced for combat.
I just got one kind of weapon upgrade (a skill, not strengthening needle) and have +1 mask and a shard, just made it to Bellhart. Interesting how everyone's different routes are considering the early game seemed pretty linear.
I felt this way after the first couple areas, even still in Act 1. Sounds great if there's even more dense exploration.
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Finally found the Key of the Apostate, ooo wee 