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[Brandson]

I have been looking to setup a mesh wi-fi network for my house for a little while, primarily because I have a Ring video doorbell camera by my front door and my router has to be located in my networking closet in the basement. The signal strength at my front door is too weak for a reliable video stream from the doorbell. I had tried using a TP-Link router as an access point. It worked for a while but it was ultimately causing all sorts of problems, and was highly unreliable so I got rid of it. My house is also totally wired for gigabit ethernet. It's a shame so many of these home-focused devices don't support PoE. That would have simplified this process tremendously.

I was waiting for Google's announcement today before starting to make a decision on what direction to go for my mesh network, but despite researching this a fair bit, I haven't been able to figure out which way to go yet. Anyway, for various reasons, I have narrowed down the choice to:

Ubiquiti Networks AmpliFi: https://www.amplifi.com/

Netgear Orbi: http://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/orbi/

Google Wi-Fi: https://store.google.com/product/google_wifi

Getting technical info on each of these products is proving to be a challenge. Some outstanding questions I have:

1) Do AmpliFi or Google W-Fi use separate wireless spectrum for communication between base station and the remote antennas/routers like Orbi? Or does connecting through one of the remote antennas/routers cut bandwidth in half for these devices?

2) Does Google Wi-Fi allow you to connect each of the meshed routers to wired Ethernet instead of requiring wireless communication between devices? I know Orbi doesn't allow that (although that could conceivably change with firmware). There appears to be no way AmpliFi can ever support such a feature.

3) Is it reasonable to be concerned about Google potentially being able to harvest all of my home network traffic? Google appears to require you to login to Google to use the Android app at the very least. This doesn't seem to be a concern with Orbi or AmpliFi.

The main router/base station in any of these setups will be located in my basement networking closet, so the display on the AmpliFi won't be terribly useful for me. I'm also a bit concerned that my kids might repeatedly knock the magnetically-supported AmpliFi antennas off the wall when running around the house. Ultimately, I just want the most reliable setup with the best coverage and the least amount of irritation in daily use. Any thoughts?

I've already ruled out Eero and Luma due to bad reviews and the problem identified in (1), above, but feel free to discuss those here as well.

 

[Appleman]

Almost bought an Eero set recently but ended up repurposing some Airport Expresses to do the same thing for way cheaper.

In my case I had hardwire ethernet everywhere I wanted to put an access point, so I didn't have to wirelessly extend anything. Not sure if there's technical stuff that these other routers are doing to make the experience better (beam-forming and whatnot) but so far it's been great

 

[Septimus Prime]

I looked into these, but of the reviews I read, they all seemed to experience huge throughput drop offs at 30 feet, so I ended up just getting a better regular router. Google WiFi and Orbi weren't really around (or known to me) at the time, though, so it was really just Eero and Luma that I looked at.

I really hate how most of these--Orbi seemingly being the exception--don't really list more than basic specs. Like, I get their target demographic probably doesn't want to see those numbers, but they should still make them available.

 

[subrock]

Definitely interested in the promises that Google wifi makes, but I also like having Apple routers so I can AirPlay to my speakers.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It sounds like the Google adapters have two gigabit ports that can be set to LAN or WAN, so you should be able to wire them like you want to.

 

[xxracerxx]

Random router placement question. Is it better to place the router near the center of the house on the main, the top floor or the basement?

 

[RoH]

I just set something like this up for my home recently. You can probably pick up a WLC 2200 series and a few 1140 series AP's pretty inexpensively, and create your own.

So far it has exceeded my expectations.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Random router placement question. Is it better to place the router near the center of the house on the main, the top floor or the basement?

I always thought higher up was better, but in your example, I'd have to think center on the main floor that way it can reach upstairs and downstairs equally but that will also depend on what the signal has to travel through too.

 

[mrpoopy]

Which TP Link router did you have? I have 2 TP-LINK TL-WDR4300 flashed with DD-WRT. One on each floor and I rarely have any issues. I have them configured with the same wireless network name so the device connects to the nearest access point automatically.

 

[RoH]

Random router placement question. Is it better to place the router near the center of the house on the main, the top floor or the basement?

Place it in the center of where it will be the most used. The closer one is to it, the better chance you will have of hitting whatever theoretical throughout it is rated for. The fewer obstructions the better. I would not place it in the basement without good reason.

 

[xxracerxx]

I always thought higher up was better, but in your example, I'd have to think center on the main floor that way it can reach upstairs and downstairs equally but that will also depend on what the signal has to travel through too.

I think I may just have to experiment. My office is upstairs and that is where my rinky-dink D-Link router (DIR-655) is right now and it has problems reaching the basement effectively.

Place it in the center of where it will be the most used. The closer one is to it, the better chance you will have of hitting whatever theoretical throughout it is rated for. The fewer obstructions the better. I would not place it in the basement without good reason.

It's kind of a toss up between my office and the main floor for most use.

Luckily it will not have to travel through any brick/cement/other hard walls/floors, no matter where the location (I am going to rule out the basement).

 

[Septimus Prime]

What if you mount it to the ceiling of the main floor? I always just assume the signal is broadcast in a sphere, with the router in the center, but I'm not sure.

 

[Brandson]

Which TP Link router did you have? I have 2 TP-LINK TL-WDR4300 flashed with DD-WRT. One on each floor and I rarely have any issues. I have them configured with the same wireless network name so the device connects to the nearest access point automatically.

My primary router is an Asus RT-N66U running Tomato. It always works perfectly in every way. The only issue is the signal is too weak in some spots far away from the router. The TP-Link I have is model AC3200. I had been using its default firmware. It doesn't have any setting as simple as "Access Point Mode". You have to disable its DHCP server, and give it a static IP suitable for your network. I can connect to its wifi, but at least 50% of the time mobile devices can't get an IP address through it. Even when they can ultimately get an IP address, it can take several minutes to get one. Signal strength has no effect on that problem. Very frustrating.

Instead of mesh devices, I'm also considering getting a device that is designed to function as an access point, like the Asus RP-AC68U. I'm wondering whether router hand-offs would be smoother with something like Orbi though.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Instead of mesh devices, I'm also considering getting a device that is designed to function as an access point, like the Asus RP-AC68U. I'm wondering whether router hand-offs would be smoother with something like Orbi though.

I thought one of the benefits of a mesh network was how it hands off. I've got two access points and the transition isn't smooth at all. It tries to hold on as long as possible which can result in a weak signal.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

I would wait for these to mature and get better. They're still incredibly new, for home, and I suspect tech will get better/cheaper.

The Wirecutter does a good breakdown on the Eero: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/#eero

In particular what's annoying is this bit:

When the Eero loses its Internet connection, you lose the ability to access any of its features and settings. Worse, if you reset the Eero when it doesn’t have an Internet connection, you’ll lose your Wi-Fi signal, too—it requires an Internet connection to create a network.

 

[mackattk]

Really interested in amplifi but haven't heard much about it.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

The amplifi is most interesting me given the main company, but those antennas are ATROCIOUS.

 

[RoH]

I thought one of the benefits of a mesh network was how it hands off. I've got two access points and the transition isn't smooth at all. It tries to hold on as long as possible which can result in a weak signal.

I think it's known as BSS and ESS. Typically you want a controller of some type to manage connections when you have multiple access points, or you accept service like what you are experiencing. Think about it from your AP's prospective... How does it know you are actually closer to the other AP, or the state of the OTHER AP, or your devices state? With out a really well lain out network, or something aware of the actual state of the network, you left it up to your wireless device (phone, laptop, tablet..) to determine which AP it should be connecting to.

The newer consumer stuff does this centralized management for you. But it's been around for a while.

 

[knitoe]

Have you tried any wifi extender? The products you are looking are are pretty much router + wifi extender combo in a slick marketing package.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Have you tried any wifi extender? The products you are looking are are pretty much router + wifi extender combo in a slick marketing package.

They're kind of different. Extenders always connect back to the main point, but mesh networks work on nodes. So the nodes can hop from one to the other before hitting the main point.

 

[mrpoopy]

My primary router is an Asus RT-N66U running Tomato. It always works perfectly in every way. The only issue is the signal is too weak in some spots far away from the router. The TP-Link I have is model AC3200. I had been using its default firmware. It doesn't have any setting as simple as "Access Point Mode". You have to disable its DHCP server, and give it a static IP suitable for your network. I can connect to its wifi, but at least 50% of the time mobile devices can't get an IP address through it. Even when they can ultimately get an IP address, it can take several minutes to get one. Signal strength has no effect on that problem. Very frustrating.

You'll need a custom firmware that supports DHCP forwarder. That should fix the timeout when getting an IP.

 

[Lady Gaia]

I have an Amplifi HD order that finally shipped today with expected delivery tomorrow. Presumably I'll have some time to stress it a little over the weekend and then I'll be in a position to answer any questions people might have here. My current setup uses an AC capable primary and an N based extender so I'm really looking forward to full AC coverage, more graceful handoffs, and hopefully a better signal in problem areas like our garage (I'm sure AT&T would prefer it if my car pulled firmware updates over WiFi instead of their already strained coverage in our neighborhood.)

 

[mackattk]

I have an Amplifi HD order that finally shipped today with expected delivery tomorrow. Presumably I'll have some time to stress it a little over the weekend and then I'll be in a position to answer any questions people might have here. My current setup uses an AC capable primary and an N based extender so I'm really looking forward to full AC coverage, more graceful handoffs, and hopefully a better signal in problem areas like our garage (I'm sure AT&T would prefer it if my car pulled firmware updates over WiFi instead of their already strained coverage in our neighborhood.)

Great! Really looking forward to any impressions you are willing to give us. Particularly interested in a list of what settings you can change at the router level, e.g. port forwarding, QoS, etc., as well as any comparison to the current router you have of course.

 

[TI82]

Definitely interested in the promises that Google wifi makes, but I also like having Apple routers so I can AirPlay to my speakers.

Chromecast audio?

 

[wihio]

I have used a lot of different Ubiquiti devices (but not the one you are looking at), and have to say they have all been rock solid. I do not think you will be disappointed with their products.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Particularly interested in a list of what settings you can change at the router level, e.g. port forwarding, QoS, etc.

Several previews have been clear that it doesn't expose QoS support, which is fine for my needs. The user manual does a pretty good job of enumerating available settings. It's clearly intended to be a straightforward high quality residential solution without deep configuration. Aside from DHCP reservations by MAC address all I really need is a strong signal, throughput, and coverage for a somewhat sprawling layout.

 

[xxracerxx]

For my own situation, I just bought a wi-fi range extender. So I will see how that works when it arrives.

 

[Nihilistic Monk]

Definitely interested in the promises that Google wifi makes, but I also like having Apple routers so I can AirPlay to my speakers.

You don't need Airport Extreme to stream to your speakers, they just need to be airplay speakers, unless you're talking about having airport express with the speakers connected via 3.5' jack? No reason you couldn't keep expresses in the mix with these. Just run them in client mode.

Chromecast audio?

Chromecast audio doesn't support Airplay.

 

[Primus]

Count me in as well as being very interested in your Amplifi experiences. I've done a lot of installs in the past couple of years using standard Ubiquiti products (mainly of the AP-AC-Pro/LR/Outdoor units), and while they're great when you have wired connections available, they leave a lot to be desired as wireless-only repeaters. I ended up having to run cabling in a few residential installs in order to clear up trouble spots caused by wireless-only repeaters that would just lose connectivity after a while.

Amplifi seems to be the answer to that question for places where cabling is an issue or non-existent, but I am very curious to see if signal strength and handoffs are a problem.

 

[possiblyphil]

All of these home mesh routers are horrible for people who have decent connections. If you are really afraid of figuring these things out or reading, pay someone off Thumbtack to run you a cat5e line for 50 bucks and call it a day. Just disable the dhcp on the 2nd Router

 

[Lady Gaia]

If you are really afraid of figuring these things out or reading ...

I'm not sure how well being insulting and dismissive works in the rest of your life but you might want to reconsider. I've reworked botched "professional" installations before by crimping and running my own cables, and I do plenty of low-level administration so it's not like I'm a technophobe. You don't know a thing about my home so it might not be wise to presume what's practical and what isn't.

 

[Septimus Prime]

How is the shipping speed on the Amplifi? My router, which I've had for less than a month, is running super hot and was dropping signal like crazy last night, so I'm thinking about returning it and getting a mesh, as well.

 

[possiblyphil]

I'm not sure how well being insulting and dismissive works in the rest of your life but you might want to reconsider. I've reworked botched "professional" installations before by crimping and running my own cables, and I do plenty of low-level administration so it's not like I'm a technophobe. You don't know a thing about my home so it might not be wise to presume what's practical and what isn't.

I did not mean to come off that way at all and the post was not pointed at you but more of a general thing. Sorry you felt that way. Most consumers won't tinker with wiring in their house most of the time. If someone wants to do it themselves then awesome, I just am really irritated with the home WiFi market in general between all the crazy gimmicks and promises then it doesn't work.

Let me offer some tips!
- if you have over 50mb connection or do alot of network streaming, make sure everything is on 5ghz
- If you do not need the crazy throughput of 80mhz channel width or higher, limit it.
- Configure your TX power on your router to match your devices (ie, if everyone in the house is rocking iphones mainly, match the power which should be between 36-50mw)
- Use a free WiFi Analyzer on your phone to figure out coverage
- You can request a free demo of Netscout's Android survey app and make a heatmap of your house by importing the floor plan. Great for figuring out where you need to move the ap/router.
- I would not put more than 10 devices per soho device, their cpus aren't really made to crunch tons of stuff
- If you have a cable run to an additional spot. Put a router there and get wireline service to your home media pc, xbox ect.
- Roaming on mobile devices is getting better, so even if you go with one of these mesh sets make sure to play with the 802.11k/r settings

 

[Lady Gaia]

How is the shipping speed on the Amplifi?

It's a very recent product so I'm not sure orders have settled into predictability just yet. The Amplifi HD in particular just started shipping the first pre-orders at the end of last week direct from the manufacturer. You might want to see if an online retailer like bhphotovideo.com has stock and order from them if they do.

 

[Septimus Prime]

It's a very recent product so I'm not sure orders have settled into predictability just yet. The Amplifi HD in particular just started shipping the first pre-orders at the end of last week direct from the manufacturer. You might want to see if an online retailer like bhphotovideo.com has stock and order from them if they do.

Thanks. I ended up preordering the HD from Newegg and will return my Asus RT-AC88U.

Any reason you went for the HD instead of the regular or the LR? For me, the thought was that I wanted 802.11ac on the mesh points.

 

[bionic77]

I have a decent sized house and my my nighthawk reaches every corner. I have never had a dropped connection.

How large of a house do you need where a mesh system will make a difference?

 

[Septimus Prime]

I have a decent sized house and my my nighthawk reaches every corner. I have never had a dropped connection.

How large of a house do you need where a mesh system will make a difference?

Do you get a lot of throughput at the ends, though? With my current Asus, my throughput drops from 500-ish Mbps wired to around 300 Mbps after 15 feet or so and a wall, and even worse further out. I mean, it's not a big deal, but it would be nice to have near-full bandwidth everywhere.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Any reason you went for the HD instead of the regular or the LR? For me, the thought was that I wanted 802.11ac on the mesh points.

That was my primary motivation as well.

How large of a house do you need where a mesh system will make a difference?

It depends on layout and construction materials. If you don't have dead zones, I wouldn't worry about it. Our main floor is an awkward shape and somewhat sprawling at around 3,200sqft. That's problematic enough even before you consider the lower floor and garage for one of our cars and a smart watering system. Both have sketchy connections even with the extender I'm using today.

 

[bionic77]

Do you get a lot of throughput at the ends, though? With my current Asus, my throughput drops from 500-ish Mbps wired to around 300 Mbps after 15 feet or so and a wall, and even worse further out. I mean, it's not a big deal, but it would be nice to have near-full bandwidth everywhere.

My internet is shit so I can't speak for the top speeds my router is capable of, but it maxes out the speed of my shit 25 mb connection at all points of my house.

 

[Lady Gaia]

My Amplifi HD arrived yesterday as scheduled. The product's packaging shows wonderful attention to detail. Once removed from the sleeve the box has a magnetic closure and everything nestles perfectly inside. It's reminiscent of an Apple product, which was doubtless the intent.

The primary base station is smaller than I expected. Once the unit is powered up the LCD touchscreen points out that all setup takes place on a smartphone, which was quick and easy. The supplied mesh points are completely plug-and-play. Find a conveniently placed outlets, plug them in and they're entirely self-starting. Once basic configuration is complete the app serves as your lifeline to the device. There are five basic tabs:

Overview shows overall status, signal strength between mesh points and the base unit, total number of clients, and instantaneous download / upload rates. Touching the depicted base station or a mesh point takes you to detailed information and configuration for the device. Options are limited but basic upstream Internet, wireless setup, DHCP server settings, and port forwarding are well represented.

Performance digs into the topic a little deeper with trend graphs and an integrated ISP test.

Guest allows you to control an alternate SSID with maximum client count and time limits.

Controls lists attached wireless clients, sorted by where the most traffic is currently taking place. Wired clients are listed as well, along with information about which of the four gigabit Ethernet ports they're connected to. Device names are provided, and as a fallback the device manufacturer is named if it's known (our Samsung TV was easy to identify in this manner but our Nest devices don't seem to be in whatever registry they're using.) Static leases are easy to set up here.

Diagnose goes through a basic troubleshooting checklist from verifying that traffic through the upstream connection is working to exercising DNS services.

I've only done some basic signal strength and performance testing, but so far I'm quite pleased. Our household coverage is better with no dead spots I've been able to find and it's great to have 802.11ac throughout. The real surprise upside was when I benchmarked some file transfers from various locations in the house to our local network attached storage. Locations 20+ feet from the nearest access point offered three times the throughput of our old Airport Extreme setup.

The sole sour note is that one of the two mesh points has flaky power transfer through the magnetic joint that allows the antenna to be adjusted. In some positions you get a distinct click and power cuts out. I've reported the issue and they'll take care of it via the usual RMA process. It's usable in the meantime, I just can't put the antenna in the ideal position to maximize signal strength on that side of the house.

 

[Primus]

So the smartphone app-based controller - does it only work within range of the Amplifi equipment, or can you configure it remotely?

Otherwise, hardware issue aside, it's looking pretty good from your early take.

 

[Lady Gaia]

So the smartphone app-based controller - does it only work within range of the Amplifi equipment, or can you configure it remotely?

The Amplifi user guide states that there is no cloud or remote access. Presumably it would be possible to add via a firmware update, but it probably makes sense to keep that sort of thing a point of differentiation from their products aimed at commercial installs.

 

[Dartastic]

I was considering buying the normal Amplifi because I live in a basement with a foot of concrete splitting my bedroom and where my router is. Sometimes reception is annoying in my room, but I was thinking maybe it's just that my router is old. I was also thinking about getting a NETGEAR Nighthawk AC1900 and I frankly cant decide whether or not to get the Amplifi or the Nighthawk. The nighthawk is 40 bucks cheaper. Hrm. Any advice?

 

[Primus]

The AmpliFi user guide states that there is no cloud or remote access. Presumably it would be possible to add via a firmware update, but it probably makes sense to keep that sort of thing a point of differentiation from their products aimed at commercial installs.

Not a deal-breaker for me, it's always nice to be able to remotely manage client installs, but it's not like I can do that with the current Ubiquiti kit anyways.

 

[Dartastic]

I was considering buying the normal Amplifi because I live in a basement with a foot of concrete splitting my bedroom and where my router is. Sometimes reception is annoying in my room, but I was thinking maybe it's just that my router is old. I was also thinking about getting a NETGEAR Nighthawk AC1900 and I frankly cant decide whether or not to get the Amplifi or the Nighthawk. The nighthawk is 40 bucks cheaper. Hrm. Any advice?

Might as well bump this because I'll be going past a Best Buy and I could use some advice before I make a decision. I could also jump for the X4S. Help?

 

[golem]

Might as well bump this because I'll be going past a Best Buy and I could use some advice before I make a decision. I could also jump for the X4S. Help?

I have a similar situation where my house is mostly brick and the router is in the office with the living room probably 25 feet away. Wifi is real spotty on that side of the house with my AC68U (similar stats to a Nighthawk) and I'm considering moving to a mesh system like Amplify. Not thrilled about the smartphone interface but everything else sounds great for my needs.

 

[xxracerxx]

Holy shit, the difference a fancy router makes. Same basic Comcast internet, but went from a D-Link DIR-655 to a TP-Link AC 5400 (which I got on sale during TwitchCon).

 

[Lady Gaia]

I finally heard back from Ubiquiti regarding the RMA request, and I can't say I'm impressed. They expect me to ship everything back, not just the defective mesh point, and do so at my expense. They then claim it'll take several weeks to process the RMA before it gets "processed." Heaven knows when I'd actually see a replacement.

I've asked for a full refund, which is disappointing because I like what I've seen of the product. I just expect a company to stand behind what they sell.

 

[gruenel]

Holy shit, the difference a fancy router makes. Same basic Comcast internet, but went from a D-Link DIR-655 to a TP-Link AC 5400 (which I got on sale during TwitchCon).

"Basic" internet

126Mbit/s

FML

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I just set up a single Ubiquiti AP AC Lite at the recommendation of our network guys at work and my wifi speed and range nearly doubled. Super easy to set up and it was well worth the $80.