TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The obvious solution is to just get rid of the tentacle aliens.
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Honest Trailer: The Force Awakens
- Thread starter Vault Dweller 111
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The obvious solution is to just get rid of the tentacle aliens.
The Sum of Zero
Member
I'm sure many of the complaints come from people like me, who think Star Wars is shit, and Luke Skywalker was a shit character. So bear that in mind.
Luke blew up a moon-sized space station by using his wizard powers to guide a torpedo down a rat sized tube. Rey bitchslapped a wounded Vader cosplayer in a swordfight.
Any criticisms of TFA, and there are lots of valid ones, can't take away from the fact that it feels like a Star Wars movie. The heroes have that twinkle in their eye, there are genuine moments of humour, there is a sense of adventure, there is a genuine excitement during action scenes. The prequels had none of those things and feel like VFX showreels instead of adventure movies.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Yeah, hard to disagree with that. Han drew the short straw in Jedi. Thankfully he was back on form in TFA.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
He had a lot of practice. Now how he was able to afford his own space fighter... that's what makes no damned sense.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Yea. Especially because Han (and Leia) was pretty shit in ROTJ.
I actually don't think Han is bad at all in ROTJ (his quips during the Jabba's palace stuff is prime Han stuff) it's just that Luke finally got on Han's level in ROTJ
Or maybe those tentacles were added cause they didn't like the pacing/feeling of the Raid guys' fight. In that case, the Grail knight would probably say they chose poorly.
Having a live animal as freight and that going haywire onboard is not a bad idea, but the issue was you didn't know shit about the geography of the place. Corridors were just corridors, no sense of "why is this dangerous? How are they trapped? What will happen if X happens? No sense of building up anything, just random looking CG tentacle mayhem as a frantic sideshow to witty character banter.
I'm interested in how you're going to argue any aspect of Attack of the Clones outside music is superior to The Force Awakens.
Visually it's no contest. Attack of the Clones is the ugliest Star Wars movie, while The Force Awakens looks fantastic thanks to better computer and practical effects and provides far more memorable cinematography.
Pacing? Attack of the Clones has some of the most agonizingly boring scenes in the series and is incredibly disjointed trying to get the different subplots to converge. The Force Awakens is tightly paced, sometimes to a fault, but is still light years ahead of Attack of the Clones in that category.
Dialogue? The Force Awakens has the most natural banter in Star Wars so far, while Attack of the Clones has by far the worst
Humor? No contest.
Characterization? Attack of the Clones completely torpedoes the Anakin character and gives jackshit to anyone else. The Force Awakens has three main character focuses with varying success.
Seriously, I know you're just saying this to be contrarian, but Attack of the Clones is a terrible, terrible, terrible movie in almost every aspect. It is boring, stupid, ugly, offensive, and its sole redeeming feature is that it's got lovely music and sound design.
SilentRacoon
Member
Except made worse.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
You're right. I'm thinking Endor Han.
Jabba's palace Han is fine. I love when Luke is trying to reassure him.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Practice shooting small (moving!) targets with science-fictiony aircraft.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
This film is a disgrace to Star Wars.
The new characters are laughably shallow and never even get to know each other by the film's climax.
The 'plot' is a bit too fucking familiar.
The universe feels EXACTLY the same as it did in the original trilogy, pretty much making Luke, Han, and Leia's struggle in the original films pointless. Everything even LOOKS the same.
Just unforgivably lazy. I expect MUCH more from a Star Wars film. TFA outright lacks any artistic vision and sums up everything that is wrong with the modern film industry.
Critically think about any of the film's sequences, and you'll realize just how outrageous and unbelievable this story is.
Here are some issues that stand out to me:
How the fuck could Rey fly and maintain the Millennium Falcon with such expertise, despite having NO apparent experience? The writers don't even bother to write in ONE line of dialogue that could possibly explain this.
A weapon that harnesses the power of the fucking sun? That's a plot device ripped out of Transfomers 2. Think about that. a plot device from TRANSFORMERS 2. In a STAR WARS film.
A super big Death Star. It this a parody?
Oh, and Rey using Jedi mind tricks, let alone KNOWING about them without any apparent training? Good joke.
And how about that overly emotional acting/direction? Finn passionately yelling out "REYYYYY!!!!" despite knowing next to NOTHING about her? How the fuck do people overlook this? How could anyone buy that?
Han Solo and Chewbacca happen to come across the Millennium Falcon in the middle of space? Space is kind of a big place. That's kind of a bit unbelievable if you ask me. Well, maybe the Force led them to each other, right?
Finn doesn't come across as a Stormtrooper who was indoctrinated since childhood. Like, at all. Wouldn't you expect him to share more personality traits with the Terminator than with Jar Jar Binks?
Poe Dameron: Being a good pilot and looking suave doesn't make your character good.
And finally, Kylo Ren is a little bitch. This became clear during that first interrogation scene with Poe at the burning village. The "So who talks first?" scene erases any menace from his character just five minutes into the fucking film. And his Force mind-fuck scenes were outright awkward to watch.
Fuck this abysmal film. An absolute disgrace to the Star Wars legacy. No fan-made solutions to the film's long list of plot holes will change how underwhelming it is.
The new characters are laughably shallow and never even get to know each other by the film's climax.
The 'plot' is a bit too fucking familiar.
The universe feels EXACTLY the same as it did in the original trilogy, pretty much making Luke, Han, and Leia's struggle in the original films pointless. Everything even LOOKS the same.
Just unforgivably lazy. I expect MUCH more from a Star Wars film. TFA outright lacks any artistic vision and sums up everything that is wrong with the modern film industry.
Critically think about any of the film's sequences, and you'll realize just how outrageous and unbelievable this story is.
Here are some issues that stand out to me:
How the fuck could Rey fly and maintain the Millennium Falcon with such expertise, despite having NO apparent experience? The writers don't even bother to write in ONE line of dialogue that could possibly explain this.
A weapon that harnesses the power of the fucking sun? That's a plot device ripped out of Transfomers 2. Think about that. a plot device from TRANSFORMERS 2. In a STAR WARS film.
A super big Death Star. It this a parody?
Oh, and Rey using Jedi mind tricks, let alone KNOWING about them without any apparent training? Good joke.
And how about that overly emotional acting/direction? Finn passionately yelling out "REYYYYY!!!!" despite knowing next to NOTHING about her? How the fuck do people overlook this? How could anyone buy that?
Han Solo and Chewbacca happen to come across the Millennium Falcon in the middle of space? Space is kind of a big place. That's kind of a bit unbelievable if you ask me. Well, maybe the Force led them to each other, right?
Finn doesn't come across as a Stormtrooper who was indoctrinated since childhood. Like, at all. Wouldn't you expect him to share more personality traits with the Terminator than with Jar Jar Binks?
Poe Dameron: Being a good pilot and looking suave doesn't make your character good.
And finally, Kylo Ren is a little bitch. This became clear during that first interrogation scene with Poe at the burning village. The "So who talks first?" scene erases any menace from his character just five minutes into the fucking film. And his Force mind-fuck scenes were outright awkward to watch.
Fuck this abysmal film. An absolute disgrace to the Star Wars legacy. No fan-made solutions to the film's long list of plot holes will change how underwhelming it is.
You're right. I'm thinking Endor Han.
Jabba's palace Han is fine. I love when Luke is trying to reassure him.
Han Solo: Together again, huh?
Luke: Wouldn't miss it.
Han Solo: How we doin'?
Luke: Same as always.
Han Solo: That bad, huh?
Han on Endor is a step down but I don't think he's bad, by that point his character takes a backseat because the story isn't about him anymore.
For the record I think ROTJ is underrated and is the second best Star Wars movie, I'd even put it on par with Empire
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
So were those voices all real? Did they actually all used to do Honest Trailers? Because all of them sucked. I can't imagine an Honest Trailer with anything but the current guy.
EatinOlives
Member
Guys, TFA is/was:
1) highly anticipated in pop culture
2) very well received
3) made a shitton of money
Of course it's gonna get kneejerk backlash on GAF. The only question was, how long until the contrarians were comfortable to start shouting about it.
Sure, if you just wanna throw lies in the thread.
LIES I TELL YOU
1) highly anticipated in pop culture
2) very well received
3) made a shitton of money
Of course it's gonna get kneejerk backlash on GAF. The only question was, how long until the contrarians were comfortable to start shouting about it.
Sure, if you just wanna throw lies in the thread.
LIES I TELL YOU
lol
And how about that overly emotional acting/direction? Luke passionately yelling out "NOOOOOO!!!!" despite knowing next to NOTHING about Obi-Wan?How the fuck do people overlook this? How could anyone buy that?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I just got my TFA blu Ray delivered. But you're making me want to watch the OT again before watching it.
QuantumZebra
Member
This is a joke post, right?
Someone please tell me this is a joke post.
I take it you never watched the PT and barely watched TFA if not.
I think Perez was doing a joke post about all the lame critiques of TFA
At least that's what I tell myself to help my mind come to grips with someone actually believing what he/she wrote.
I just have to say, I'd have a hard time with life if I managed to spend that much time spitting that much vitriol about the best Star Wars movie that's been made in 35 years. I would not want my head to be in that place.
Could just be a millennial having his childhood raped by JJ Abrams.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
This is a joke post, right?
Someone please tell me this is a joke post.
Was I not being specific in my criticisms of the film?
LowParry
Member
ATOC is the worst Star Wars movie so I sure hope not!!!
Your specific criticisms made me think you weren't paying attention when watching TFA, to be honest.
The things that to me put Rey over to the mary sue-ish side compared to Luke are that:
1) Everyone adores her. There's no conflict at all between "the good guys" and Rey. Luke was considered a naive annoying child by some of the characters in the original. But in TFA there's nothing of the sort. Everyone seems to think highly of Rey, it's unrealistic and breaks my immersion when it comes to her storyline.
2) She conveniently doesn't need help or saving in any situation. When Finn realizes tie fighters are coming it ends up being Rey who lifts him up after an explosion, when they're flying the falcon it's Rey with the pilot skills and with the final cool trick that helps Finn's stuck gun, when Rey releases the rathars it's her closing the door and cutting off a rathar tentacle / saving Finn, when Finn, Han and Chewie are coming to rescue Rey she has already pretty much rescued herself etc. In ANH luke has to be saved from the sand people by Ben, same thing in the canteen where he's about to get his ass kicked, trash compactor is him getting saved by R2D2 and even the trench run isn't about luke doing things himself but Ben telling him what to do (contrast to Rey not needing help from a mentor figure, all she does is geek out about Han being real).
But yeah, those are my two biggest pet peeves when it comes to her character. I actually thought Daisy Ridley did a fine job being the yound kid from a desert planet that she needed to be. It's just that the writing didn't really fit the character type.
But imo this is a pretty good video, the people making it probably had different opinions on which direction to go with it and they decided to cover all the bases.
I personally didn't really like the movie at all. To me it's only above clones out of the star wars movies. But then again I say this as a person who likes star wars movies not because "likable characters" or "a fun adventure" but because I find the world building interesting, I like the lore, and always thought that the music was awesome. All those things felt lacking to me in TFA. I've seen Guardrians of the galaxy mentioned a couple of times in this thread as a non-star wars, star wars movie but honestly I think GoG is horrific. It's exactly the kind of annoying likable-adventure-fun-time that's just over polished and ugly visual style wise that I can't stand.
I also have to admit that I really like cheesy ominous dialogue which is what the PT is full of. With TFA a lot of the characters felt like they were from 2015 planet Earth and not from a galaxy far, far away.
I also really didn't like the amount of jokes and humor. A little here and there is fine, but aside from the final fight with Rey and Kylo all the parts of TFA seemed to always have a funny bit which was overkill imo. Especially when the actual dialogue heavy sequences were so few in the movie. When there are very little actual in depth discussions between constant action setpieces to be had don't ruin them with jokes about boyfriends, or "women always finding out about everything". Action was humor heavy too.
/rambling
I dunno, maybe I'm just one of the few people that grew with the prequels and is now too old for new stuff. But I really do reject the idea that TFA is somehow objectively a worthy sequel to all that came before it. It might have been immensely hyped and well received but I think it'll prove to be more divisive than people think in the long run.
1) Everyone adores her. There's no conflict at all between "the good guys" and Rey. Luke was considered a naive annoying child by some of the characters in the original. But in TFA there's nothing of the sort. Everyone seems to think highly of Rey, it's unrealistic and breaks my immersion when it comes to her storyline.
2) She conveniently doesn't need help or saving in any situation. When Finn realizes tie fighters are coming it ends up being Rey who lifts him up after an explosion, when they're flying the falcon it's Rey with the pilot skills and with the final cool trick that helps Finn's stuck gun, when Rey releases the rathars it's her closing the door and cutting off a rathar tentacle / saving Finn, when Finn, Han and Chewie are coming to rescue Rey she has already pretty much rescued herself etc. In ANH luke has to be saved from the sand people by Ben, same thing in the canteen where he's about to get his ass kicked, trash compactor is him getting saved by R2D2 and even the trench run isn't about luke doing things himself but Ben telling him what to do (contrast to Rey not needing help from a mentor figure, all she does is geek out about Han being real).
But yeah, those are my two biggest pet peeves when it comes to her character. I actually thought Daisy Ridley did a fine job being the yound kid from a desert planet that she needed to be. It's just that the writing didn't really fit the character type.
But imo this is a pretty good video, the people making it probably had different opinions on which direction to go with it and they decided to cover all the bases.
I personally didn't really like the movie at all. To me it's only above clones out of the star wars movies. But then again I say this as a person who likes star wars movies not because "likable characters" or "a fun adventure" but because I find the world building interesting, I like the lore, and always thought that the music was awesome. All those things felt lacking to me in TFA. I've seen Guardrians of the galaxy mentioned a couple of times in this thread as a non-star wars, star wars movie but honestly I think GoG is horrific. It's exactly the kind of annoying likable-adventure-fun-time that's just over polished and ugly visual style wise that I can't stand.
I also have to admit that I really like cheesy ominous dialogue which is what the PT is full of. With TFA a lot of the characters felt like they were from 2015 planet Earth and not from a galaxy far, far away.
I also really didn't like the amount of jokes and humor. A little here and there is fine, but aside from the final fight with Rey and Kylo all the parts of TFA seemed to always have a funny bit which was overkill imo. Especially when the actual dialogue heavy sequences were so few in the movie. When there are very little actual in depth discussions between constant action setpieces to be had don't ruin them with jokes about boyfriends, or "women always finding out about everything". Action was humor heavy too.
/rambling
I dunno, maybe I'm just one of the few people that grew with the prequels and is now too old for new stuff. But I really do reject the idea that TFA is somehow objectively a worthy sequel to all that came before it. It might have been immensely hyped and well received but I think it'll prove to be more divisive than people think in the long run.
Of course, then you'd have people complaining about Rey being a Mary Sue when she beats the shit out of so many gangsters with that staff of hers.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
I've suffered through this fucking film three times.
QuantumZebra
Member
No - they were just wildly off-base and inconsistent.
Most of what you listed could be leveled at the OT as well (reference a few posts above).
Not to mention the fact that you would call this film a disgrace to Star Wars while ignoring the giant elephant corpse in the room known as the PT is laughable at best and terrifying at worst.
I can't believe you made it to the end of that post. impressive. most impressive.
You're talking about the villain who had two lines and spent the entire film looking menacing before getting cut in half? Yeah, real presence there. Much more interesting than an actual character with actual motivations and actual acting.
TFA prioritized having good characters, good actors, and an emotionally engaging story. It may have some shortcomings, but it generally succeeded in what it wanted to do. The prequels were failures in almost everything that traditionally defines a good movie. Bad writing, bad acting, bad directing, bad pacing. Some of Lucas' dialog is seriously an inch or two above "The Room," particularly in AOTC, but all 3 films are uniformly terrible. Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid were the few shining lights in a 7 hour slog of atrociously bad dialog. He threw all of his weight behind the visual storytelling and even that hasn't held up well due to the poorly aging CGI and the uncanny valley effect that comes with it.
The only good thing you can say about them is that the underlying story was very good. But it was committed to film in the clumsiest, most tone-deaf manner possible. If you think the overlong lightsaber twirling CGI battles were cool enough to make up for the films sucking in almost every other way, well... enjoy.
When I heard about there being some kind of "starkiller" weapon or base the first thought was, ok so they will have an actual star destroyer, cool.
The logical way to do it would have been that this thing travels to a solar system, injects the sun with some handwavium and the sun goes supernova, expands and BOOM. System dead. proceed to next system.
This thing could have been very small also, like onboard Kylo's flagship even, making it feel more like a weapon a desperate Empire remnant or cult would use.
Instead they chose to have a giant sun sucking mechanism built into a fullsized planet with trees and birds.
And instead of sucking the sun dry and that is how the system dies, they chose to have the sucked up sun power as ammunition for some weird trans-hyperspace weapon that shoots 5 beams simultanously that then can even arc around and hit distant planets in another (!) solar system by the power of traveling through hyperspace and with people witnessing the destruction of this solar system instantanously from groundlevel.
So weird...the solution would have been so obvious...supernova creator...oh well.
Yet somehow, after three times, you completely missed the throwaway line where Han says they've been keeping an eye out for the Falcon. And also the blatantly obvious set ups that show Rey is a competent mechanic and pilot.
While I don't agree that it's an abysmal film I gotta say you do make some pretty good points and quite a few I actually agree with. Also I read your post as Eric which made it even better.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Well, the scene would still end with her fleeing, so maybe not.
Yeah, that's why this section of the movie is my least favorite, by far. Everything about it just feels off.
It's crazy really, the years of refusing to see the prequels flaws have really messed some SW fans up.
The characters in TFA go through some tough times together, they save each other's lives and they get swept up in an adventure together, that's why they care for each other and why the audience cares for them. They don't just sit still talking about trade negotiations before slashing up some laughably feeble droids who pose no threat. TFA is a very safe, palette cleanser after the prequels but it does the basics right, that's why people are excited for VIII rather than what happened with Episode II, where people thought "surely it can't be that bad again?".
People are now genuinely excited about SW and invested in the new characters in a way that they never were with the prequels.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Totally explains it! How could I have missed that?
By not paying attention to the movie
QuantumZebra
Member
I don't know why I'm continuing to abuse myself with this thread.
It's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion - I know its awful, but I keep looking at it.
Between Perez and the guy who liked AOTC over TFA, I'm pretty sure we've reached the Twilight Zone of SW debates.
Perez is either
A) Trolling
or
B) Insane
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I can't fathom how someone could have the opinions of TFA that he/she does (period); but if all that is true... then turn around and watch it 2 more times?
by not paying attention to the dialogue in the movie?
well thanks to you and some others in this thread I feel less crazy when I read certain posts haha
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