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[mlclmtckr]

Just so I have this performance indicator right: bringing up aged liberal politicians who lost in 2016, is a sign of hollow beliefs

Would you like to count how many times you've written "Clinton" and/or "Hillary" since Jan. 01, 2017. If that number is >0 then we can safely assume you're posing as a "political radical" who spends their time "recapitulating" their grievances, correct?

Uh I would actually really love it if the Clinton family sank below the surface of the mainstream political discourse and was never heard from again on the national stage

But I guess making fun of H avatars is the same thing as typing allcaps rants about how much Bernie Sanders hurt your feelings? I dunno.

 

[Guevara]

Honestly, why doesn't the Bernie wing just form their own party. Split the left vote, and forever relegate the country to far right ideologies?

Leading is hard, it's much more fun to be ideologically pure and out of power.

 

[Mael]

are you seriously using geographical support and ignoring the numbers?

What is your point exactly?
I'm saying the places where the far left has its biggest supporters are also the places where the far right get its biggest supporters.
And these places are also the places where the mainstream candidates get the lowest support.
That's why geographical data is interesting.
We can also scour legislative, mayoral and other types of election if you want.
They usually follow the same patter with an interesting flip, the opposition party always wins the non legislative election, the rest is roughly noise.
The French political system also do not have a electoral college system so a vote in 1 place is equal to a vote in another, unlike the US so I don't really get why you're posting that image like it's relevant of anything.
Also if you're about to say something about population repartition, know that most of the country is in Paris and it's region so it has a disproportional weight compared to the rest of the country (and the center of the country is mostly empty unlike the North, North East and around Lyon).

 

[jtb]

Fishhook "theory" evidence: Bi-partisan foreign policy 'consensus' that American strength is necessary for world stability (more American hegemony-centric than hawkish), various new Dem bullshit

Horseshoe "theory" evidence: Weed, isolationism that morphs into apologism for foreign strongmen that oppress their own people, weed

So we fix the Trump problem to go back to what? the same good ol corporate state crushing American families? is that your proposal? when 70% of Americans were rejecting the Obama administration by 2016, do you want to swoop in and promise more of the same a la Hillary? That's shortsighted as hell, even with a Trump in the white house.

I can turn it around on YOU... with Trump in the White House, you're whining that the progressives are actually out there in the streets trying to reform this country to make it a fairer better place for all, while digging in your heels on the side of corrupt dinosaurs in the DNC? what's your problem?

70% of American rejected Obama? What the fuck are you talking about? You do realize he was elected President, right? Twice!

 

[TurnipFritters]

Uh I would actually really love it if the Clinton family sank below the surface of the mainstream political discourse and was never heard from again on the national stage

But I guess making fun of H avatars is the same thing as typing allcaps rants about how much Bernie Sanders hurt your feelings? I dunno.

I'll be real with you for a minute: Your posting makes you look way angrier than basically anyone else in this thread.

 

[Ekai]

I'll be real with you for a minute: Your posting makes you look way angrier than basically anyone else in this thread.

My two cents: the centrists responding to them look way more unhinged to me.

 

[Veitsev]

Fishhook "theory" evidence: Bi-partisan foreign policy 'consensus' that American strength is necessary for world stability (more American hegemony-centric than hawkish), various new Dem bullshit

Horseshoe theory evidence: Weed, isolationism that morphs into apologism for foreign strongmen that oppress their own people, weed



70% of American rejected Obama? What the fuck are you talking about? You do realize he was elected President, right? Twice!

Obama's approval rating was 50%+ through pretty much the entirety of 2016 and got close to 60% near the end ending at 59%.

 

[Mael]

70% of American rejected Obama? What the fuck are you talking about? You do realize he was elected President, right? Twice!

And he has a sky hight approval rating too...

 

[shamanick]

What is your point exactly?
I'm saying the places where the far left has its biggest supporters are also the places where the far right get its biggest supporters.
And these places are also the places where the mainstream candidates get the lowest support.
That's why geographical data is interesting.
We can also scour legislative, mayoral and other types of election if you want.
They usually follow the same patter with an interesting flip, the opposition party always wins the non legislative election, the rest is roughly noise.
The French political system also do not have a electoral college system so a vote in 1 place is equal to a vote in another, unlike the US so I don't really get why you're posting that image like it's relevant of anything.
Also if you're about to say something about population repartition, know that most of the country is in Paris and it's region so it has a disproportional weight compared to the rest of the country (and the center of the country is mostly empty unlike the North, North East and around Lyon).

You completely ignored the only hard data in this thread that showed way more Fillon voters go to Le Pen than left voters. If you still think that horseshoe theory manifested itself in the recent election in France, go ahead.

 

[mlclmtckr]

I'll be real with you for a minute: Your posting makes you look way angrier than basically anyone else in this thread.

fucking good

these people are complacent incompetent morons who can't even handle Nina fucking Turner much less stand up to the rapid advance of fascism in the Untied States and their completely process-based West Wing fan-style centrist politics just lost to a bunch of anime nazis and gamergaters

these people are fucking terrible at their jobs and yes I am indeed pretty mad at them and by extension the people who are standing up for them and just mindlessly congratulating each other for being right instead of having enough humility to examine the reasons for the current domination of American politics by literal fascists.

did you know that the GOP is like one governorship away from being able to rewrite the constitution?

 

[Mael]

You completely ignored the only hard data in this thread that showed way more Fillon voters go to Le Pen than left voters. If you still think that horseshoe theory manifested itself in the recent election in France, go ahead.

I'm talking about trends spanning a decade and you give me 1 data point?
Come on now.
e: heck you want us to go through legislative if you want.

 

[Aselith]

70% of American rejected Obama? What the fuck are you talking about? You do realize he was elected President, right? Twice!

I think he means REAL Americans. Not liberal commie pinkos trying to give folks healthcare and shit. Like that's a thing to do.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

fucking good

these people are complacent incompetent morons who can't even handle Nina fucking Turner much less stand up to the rapid advance of fascism in the Untied States and their completely process-based West Wing fan-style centrist politics just lost to a bunch of anime nazis and gamergaters

these people are fucking terrible at their jobs and yes I am indeed pretty mad at them and by extension the people who are standing up for them and just mindlessly congratulating each other for being right instead of having enough humility to examine the reasons for the current domination of American politics by literal fascists.

did you know that the GOP is like one governorship away from being able to rewrite the constitution?

Well it's like 3-4 states away from fully GOP led state legislatures. And the governors are not involved in that process.

Speaking of that, why do VT citizens elect GOP governors to act as a "check" while many GOP states have no issues electing GOP politicians at every level of state governorship - even the executive? MA apparently does this too - which led to conservative darling Mitt Romney getting on the national stage.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Uh I would actually really love it if the Clinton family sank below the surface of the mainstream political discourse and was never heard from again on the national stage

But I guess making fun of H avatars is the same thing as typing allcaps rants about how much Bernie Sanders hurt your feelings? I dunno.

So, we've established that your recapitulation of Clinton's campaign is simply a moral and rhetorical failing on your part, correct?

But hey, maybe we found common ground:

Uh I would actually really love it if the Sanders family sank below the surface of the mainstream political discourse and was never heard from again on the national stage

So in light of this breakthrough, let's all go vote for the Dem in all the races in 2018.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Well it's like 3-4 states away from fully GOP led state legislatures. And the governors are not involved in that process.

Speaking of that, why do VT citizens elect GOP governors to act as a "check" while many GOP states have no issues electing GOP politicians at every level of state governorship - even the executive?

Yeah my bad, I just looked it up. According to the Chicago Tribune it's actually just one more state legislature that they need for a constitutional convention and then four more to ratify.

As far as the second thing, it's because liberals believe in compromise and Team of Rivals type bipartisan patriotism, and conservatives just don't.

 

[TurnipFritters]

fucking good

these people are complacent incompetent morons who can't even handle Nina fucking Turner much less stand up to the rapid advance of fascism in the Untied States and their completely process-based West Wing fan-style centrist politics just lost to a bunch of anime nazis and gamergaters

these people are fucking terrible at their jobs and yes I am indeed pretty mad at them and by extension the people who are standing up for them and just mindlessly congratulating each other for being right instead of having enough humility to examine the reasons for the current domination of American politics by literal fascists.

did you know that the GOP is like one governorship away from being able to rewrite the constitution?

I mean, I just think it's super weird you're going with the "heh you're all so MAD" when you're the top poster in this thread and every post you make is dripping with contempt. But then what do I know, I'm not a political mastermind like you.

 

[mlclmtckr]

So, we've established that your recapitulation of Clinton's campaign is simply a moral and rhetorical failing on your part, correct?

But hey, maybe we found common ground:

I'm sorry I want to keep engaging with you but I literally cannot follow what you're talking about right now.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The far left and the far right have one major theme they revolve around, victimhood by some form of "establishment." Even now that they run the show, look how Trump's followers still act like they are victims of the deep state and swamp forces.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

I'm sorry I want to keep engaging with you but I literally cannot follow what you're talking about right now.

It says you're a hypocrite by your own logic

 

[mlclmtckr]

I mean, I just think it's super weird you're going with the "heh you're all so MAD" when you're the top poster in this thread and every post you make is dripping with contempt. But then what do I know, I'm not a political mastermind like you.

well I was specifically responding to that one poster who actually was typing out all cap rants and multiple exclamation points and just weird atavistic anti-bernie rage. I freely admit that I'm not exactly a cool customer here.

And yeah again I don't know what to say. I'm not some electoral genius, but I certainly do have contempt for the DNC. So should all the liberals in this thread who for reasons of tribalism are defending them.

 

[mlclmtckr]

It says you're a hypocrite by your own logic

would it amuse you to know that this exact phrase is used by leftists on the internet to make fun of liberals

 

[Carpe Carnim]

would it amuse you to know that this exact phrase is used by leftists on the internet to make fun of liberals

Poseur leftists on the internet say a lot of things.

 

[jtb]

well I was specifically responding to that one poster who actually was typing out all cap rants and multiple exclamation points and just weird atavistic anti-bernie rage. I freely admit that I'm not exactly a cool customer here.

And yeah again I don't know what to say. I'm not some electoral genius, but I certainly do have contempt for the DNC. So should all the liberals in this thread who for reasons of tribalism are defending them.

I think you're overestimating the power the DNC has. Any wave election in 2018 will have as much to do with the DNC as the RNC did with Trump's election. I'm sure you won't be singing their praises next year if we flip the House and you'd be right not to.

 

[El_Tiguere]

You know how I know Sanders supporters don't make up half the Democratic Party?

Because he lost the fucking primary by 3.7 million votes, that's how I know.

If we go by the primaries, it is nearly half of those who wanted their voices heard through the primaries (of course, a good 20+ million registered Democrats would not fall in line for HRC because they could not stand her). Progressives are not a fringe if we go by the polls and statistics.

70% of American rejected Obama? What the fuck are you talking about? You do realize he was elected President, right? Twice!

Ask Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1669/general-mood-country.aspx

It's a problem Democrats will have to solve. Bernie Sanders doesn't have the answers. Nina Turner definitely doesn't. The fact that you'd put forth right-wing Tulsi makes me question your sanity. That's the scariest thing about the Bernie cult, they'll support anyone who barnacles onto Bernie, even a scary Islamphobe.

Except I think that the islamophobe claim is utter bullshit concocted by war mongers in our country? (because she was a lone voice of reason against a regime change war in Syria).

 

[Nafai1123]

The far left and the far right have one major theme they revolve around, victimhood by some form of "establishment." Even now that they run the show, look how Trump's followers still act like they are victims of the deep state and swamp forces.

To be fringe is to feel that the majority are against you. By their very nature they must play the victim.

 

[El_Tiguere]

To be fringe is to feel that the majority are against you. By their very nature they must play the victim.

Except it is not the majority that is against progressives. It is the very few well-entrenched wealthy interests that get to push Democrats in congress around to pass favorable legislation for themselves. They are the minority. The majority here are the disenfranchised Americans.

 

[jtb]

If we go by the primaries, it is nearly half of those who wanted their voices heard through the primaries (of course, a good 20+ million registered Democrats would not fall in line for HRC because they could not stand her). Progressives are not a fringe if we go by the polls and statistics.

Spoiler: 20 million registered Democrats live in states that formerly had a Democratic party machine (read: the South) and haven't voted for Democrats in decades.

I'd love to hear how you plan on winning them back.

Ask Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1669/general-mood-country.aspx

Why on earth would that poll (right after Donald J. Trump was elected President) be more representative of how people viewed Obama than, you know, his job approval?

P.S. Tulsi Gabbard is a fucking bigot.

Except it is not the majority that is against progressives. It is the very few well-entrenched wealthy interests that get to push Democrats in congress around to pass favorable legislation for themselves. They are the minority. The majority here are the disenfranchised Americans.

Then why does this country keep voting for Republicans?

 

[Rupetta]

To be fringe is to feel that the majority are against you. By their very nature they must play the victim.

Would you stand by this point for class, race and gender politics and their intersections?

 

[soundscream]

Ask Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1669/general-mood-country.aspx

Cant tell if you're being disingenuous or you don't know what that poll actually says?

 

[El_Tiguere]

Spoiler: 20 million registered Democrats live in states that formerly had a Democratic party machine (read: the South) and haven't voted for Democrats in decades.

I'd love to hear how you plan on winning them back.

Don't promise more of the same for once... promise to take back power from the wealthy and give it back to Americans. That's a start.

Why on earth would that poll (right after Donald J. Trump was elected President) be more representative of how people viewed Obama than, you know, his job approval?

Because I don't put as much stake in people feeling good about a charismatic leader who talks nice, versus them thinking that the US is royally fucked and headed in the wrong direction. You rely on this poll, before you run a corrupt candidate promising to take us farther into that wrong direction. It's common sense.

P.S. Tulsi Gabbard is a fucking bigot.

How come? have her personal heritage and religious views manifested themselves in her public life? Has she changed her stances, just like Queen Cersei Hillary?

Then why do they keep voting for Republicans?

They don't? Trump got the same Romney votes, so the only person losing ground here is the decrepit corporate Democrats and their Diva Clinton.

Cant tell if you're being disingenuous or you don't know what that poll actually says?

I think it tells me if people were happy or sad at how things were going in the US? do you have a different take?

 

[jtb]

Don't promise more of the same for once... promise to take back power from the wealthy and give it back to Americans. That's a start.



Because I don't put as much stake in people feeling good about a charismatic leader who talks nice, versus them thinking that the US is royally fucked and headed in the wrong direction. You rely on this poll, before you run a corrupt candidate promising to take us farther into that wrong direction. It's common sense.



How come? have her personal heritage and religious views manifested themselves in her public life? Has she changed her stances, just like Queen Cersei Hillary?



They don't? Trump got the same Romney votes, so the only person losing ground here is the decrepit corporate Democrats and their Diva Clinton.



I think it tells me if people were happy or sad at how things were going in the US? do you have a different take?

According to your gospel Gallup poll, your ideal President is George W. Bush or Bill Clinton. Yes, noted progressives both of them.

You think there are 20 million hidden progressives living in Mississippi and Alabama.

You're just throwing shit at the wall now.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Tiguerre come on

Hillary is khaleesi, not cersei

 

[pigeon]

Tiguerre come on

Hillary is khaleesi, not cersei

Hillary is Sansa

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Hillary is Sansa

I thought Hillz was Littlefinger?

 

[soundscream]

I think it tells me if people were happy or sad at how things were going in the US? do you have a different take?

What you think is incorrect. You can be 100% satisfied with the Obama administration and still be unsatisfied about the direction the country is headed. Your bending this poll to say something it doesn't, especially since the #'s are about the same as before he was even president.

 

[excelsiorlef]

My two cents: the centrists responding to them look way more unhinged to me.

...

Why the assumption that those responding to that post are centrists.

Can you not perpetuate the narrative that anyone not on Team Bernie are centrists.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Hillary is Sansa

I'd actually go Ned Stark

 

[El_Tiguere]

What you think is incorrect. You can be 100% satisfied with the Obama administration and still be unsatisfied about the direction the country is headed. Your bending this poll to say something it doesn't, especially since the #'s are about the same as before he was even president.

Because the country was also headed in a shit direction since before Obama? and he did nothing to change the course? and Hillary promised more of the same shit course?

Maybe now you can put 2 + 2 together, and see how a low teens approval rating for Congress (yes, including Democrats) and a growing impatience against "the establishment" festered until we had Trump on one side, and Bernie on the other.

Tiguerre come on

Hillary is khaleesi, not cersei

Sorry but she is a cunning crook that has thirsted for power since her hubby left the WH iron throne.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Sorry but she is a cunning crook that has thirsted for power since her hubby left the WH iron throne.

I'm actually just making fun of you for trying to describe actual real life politics through the lens of prestige television

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Because the country was also headed in a shit direction since before Obama? and he did nothing to change the course? and Hillary promised more of the same shit course?

Maybe now you can put 2 + 2 together, and see how a low teens approval rating for Congress (yes, including Democrats) and a growing impatience against "the establishment" festered until we had Trump on one side, and Bernie on the other.

We've been though this. Obama did nothing? He kind of prevented a Depression.

Congress always has low approval ratings. Except the senator/rep in the home base. Their senator is always doing well - it's everyone else that's crappy.

Edit: Oh, saw your edit. Well good luck on your crusade.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Because the country was also headed in a shit direction since before Obama? and he did nothing to change the course? and Hillary promised more of the same shit course?

Sorry but she is a cunning crook that has thirsted for power since her hubby left the WH iron throne.

I love this fake leftist trope that bringing access to healthcare for tens of millions of people is some sort of horrible trick perpetrated by neolibs.

Guess what? Obama accomplished something that Bernie and the rest of his armchair revolution couldn't even attempt, because when given the opportunity, these same posuers were standing with the Tea Partiers, screaming "kill the bill"

So pardon me while I laugh at you

 

[Particle Physicist]

The DNC only made themselves look bad because they didn't even let HER in. They obfuscated the message of those who signed the petition. They fucked themselves yet again FOR WHAT? Who or what are they protecting by not listening to progressives? what do they gain? (clearly, not power in the US).

But the DNC did not actually look bad here. Especially not after it was noted that they have been inviting her and her group to meet up with them for a while now.

 

[jack_package_200]

But the DNC did not actually look bad here. Especially not after it was noted that they have been inviting her and her group to meet up with them for a while now.

Working together or even having a proper discussion with THE ESTABLISHMENT means selling out.

 

[Wet Bloodfart]

Welp, this is not how I thought this thread would pan out.

 

[El_Tiguere]

I love this fake leftist trope that bringing access to healthcare for tens of millions of people is some sort of horrible trick perpetrated by neolibs.

Guess what? Obama accomplished something that Bernie and the rest of his armchair revolution couldn't even attempt, because when given the opportunity, these same posuers were standing with the Tea Partiers, screaming "kill the bill"

So pardon me while I laugh at you

While it took too damn long to do away with the bullshit pre-existing conditions (I applaud Obama for this), ACA was a half-assed solution and a full-blown give-away to health insurance companies and other health care providers. It was corporations telling tax payers... OK we will insure more of you, but you are now penalized if you don't buy our for-profit product. What the fuck did this do to lower costs? NOTHING. On the other hand, knowing that Obamacare premiums were set to hike by 20% on average two weeks before the 2016 election, was yet another stake at the heart of corporatist Democrats pushing their "slow progress" "pragmatic" solutions.

Guess what else Obama accomplished? the bottom 80% of Americans saw little or no recovery since 2008, and we still have about 15 million workers underemployed in our economy who have remained out of the labor force. These are not retired baby boomers sipping mojitos in Florida. These are underworked Americans who have turned to things like opioids to deal with the anxieties of an unfair system that favors the wealthy and doesn't give a fuck about them. Trump scammed them into thinking he cared about them, while Bernie has been advocating for them since the 1990's.

 

[pigeon]

I'd actually go Ned Stark

There's no way Obama isn't Ned Stark

Which I think makes McConnell Cersei

Wait this might actually be working

 

[mlclmtckr]

There's no way Obama isn't Ned Stark

Which I think makes McConnell Cersei

Wait this might actually be working

i regret my part in starting this

 

[jack_package_200]

I suppose Game of Thrones analogies are better than the dumb Harry Potter analogies.

Guess we have improved from 2016

 

[Piecake]

Working together or even having a proper discussion with THE ESTABLISHMENT means selling out.

Seems to me that a far better tactic would have been to go to these meetings and try to get some concessions. When the DNC doesn't give you those, or enough to appease you, then you do this protest stunt.

I mean, at least then you'd have a point.

Right now, this just looks like a stupid publicity stunt for Nina Turner that will accomplish nothing beccause the DNC can point to all of these meetings that Nina Turner never bothered to attend. They can say that they tried to talk and engage, and say that Nina turner isn't actually interested in actual work and actual change, just publicity and meaningless protest

 

[El_Tiguere]

Right now, this just looks like a stupid publicity stunt for Nina Turner that will accomplish nothing beccause the DNC can point to all of these meetings that Nina Turner never bothered to attend. They can say that they tried to talk and engage, and say that Nina turner isn't actually interested in actual work and actual change, just publicity and meaningless protest

So do you have the details on these infamous meetings, or are you drawing all your conclusions based on a short reactionary PR response by a DNC being criticized for even more shenanigans?