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[jack_package_200]

Seems to me that a far better tactic would have been to go to these meetings and try to get some concessions. When the DNC doesn't give you those, or enough to appease you, then you do this protest stunt.

I mean, at least then you'd have a point.

Right now, this just looks like a stupid publicity stunt for Nina Turner that will accomplish nothing beccause the DNC can point to all of these meetings that Nina Turner never bothered to attend. They can say that they tried to talk and engage, and say that Nina turner isn't actually interested in actual work and actual change, just publicity and meaningless protest

Exactly my thoughts. She didn't accomplish anything with this stunt.

If she does run for president like some here want, in the absence of any kind of voting record in an elected position worth a damn, this stunt and her actions during her tenure at Our Revolution (like saying she is open to raising money for some republicans) will be things used to judge her.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Exactly my thoughts. She didn't accomplish anything with this stunt.

If she does run for president like some here want, in the absence of any kind of voting record in an elected position worth a damn, this stunt and her actions during her tenure at Our Revolution (like saying she is open to raising money for some republicans) will be things used to judge her.

Every American will witness that she is a passionate fighter for the people, against manufactured "progressives" like Kamala Harris. Bring on that primary!

 

[gutter_trash]

Every American will witness that she is a passionate fighter for the people, against manufactured "progressives" like Kamala Harris. Bring on that primary!

Dennis Kuciniched

 

[jack_package_200]

Every American will witness that she is a passionate fighter for the people, against manufactured "progressives" like Kamala Harris. Bring on that primary!

Good luck

 

[tuxfool]

Why do people still argue with the bullshit merchants? What do you hope to gain from the hopelessly deluded?

 

[Big Baybee]

Every American will witness that she is a passionate fighter for the people, against manufactured "progressives" like Kamala Harris. Bring on that primary!

lmao

 

[sangreal]

I can't wait for these people to just start their own party

This must be what it felt like for Republicans when the tea party started to hijack their party

 

[B4s5C]

I think we should totally judge this complex situation that involves lots of counter-balanced responsibilities and priorities that have to be juggled based on a couple of tidbits that we read on the internet. Also, we should use that incomplete information to reaffirm our biases against Sanders or against the DNC. I looked it up on imright.com

The world would be a better place if we could temporarily turn off our biased view points and the labels that we attach to them (combative or not) and view situations like this from a neutral standpoint as an acknowledgement that all viewpoints are valid. That would also assume you or I would be open to changing our own point of view.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Why do people still argue with the bullshit merchants? What do you hope to gain from the hopelessly deluded?

I too hope the hopelessly deluded understand that running a manufactured candidate in 2020 will get you another 2016 and 4 more years of Trump.

 

[Taelus]

I can't wait for these people to just start their own party

This must be what it felt like for Republicans when the tea party started to hijack their party

Yeah leftists should vote third party; what a great idea. We all know how well that's turned out.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I can't wait for these people to just start their own party

This must be what it felt like for Republicans when the tea party started to hijack their party

No, "these people" need better leaders, not people consumed with their own branding.

 

[Ekai]

I can't wait for these people to just start their own party

This must be what it felt like for Republicans when the tea party started to hijack their party

Oh, yea, the leftists should get kicked out of the party, that way Democrats can fulfill their destiny of effectively going into obscurity. All the while trying to appease an even further right-wing base of Republicans to join in on their centrist ideals. (Which even then will be compromised since they'll have to go further right in an attempt to appeal to the far-right base of Repubs). It'll work beautifully. How dare the left "hijack" the Democrats by attempting to make them stand for what they claim to support.

...

Why the assumption that those responding to that post are centrists.

Can you not perpetuate the narrative that anyone not on Team Bernie are centrists.

They're proposing generally leftist ideas and are being met by people staunchly opposed to pretty much any leftist front. Not just that, they're being personally insulted for even proposing what they say. It reminds me of primary garbage when leftists who had basic criticisms (but did vote for Hillary regardless, as the facts show despite some Hillary supporters from then repeating the lie that we didn't by and large) had their character assassinated just for speaking their mind on the matter. It's hard to not think of someone as a centrist when they have a long time behavior of attacking minorities who just want the Democrats to listen to them/attacking people, often minorities themselves, concerned with conservative economic policies and desire to see the income inequality gap reduced. Etc. etc. etc. It's certainly not everyone but to act like centrists aren't by and large the ones responding to them I don't understand. I don't care to see leftists continually disparaged. This constant drudging up of the primary that centrists do needs to stop. But they seem very resistant to embracing the left wing and just want to blame us regardless so it's hard to not get annoyed at all of this.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Oh, yea, the leftists should get kicked out of the party, that way Democrats can fulfill their destiny of effectively going into obscurity. All the while trying to appease an even further right-wing base of Republicans to join in on their centrist ideals. It'll work beautifully. How dare the left "hijack" the Democrats by attempting to make them stand for what they claim to support.



They're proposing generally leftist ideas and are being met by people staunchly opposed to pretty much any leftist front. Not just that, they're being personally insulted for even proposing what they say. It reminds me of primary garbage when leftists who had basic criticisms (but did vote for Hillary regardless, as facts shown despite some Hillary supporters from them repeating the lie that we didn't by and large) had their character assassinated just for speaking their mind on the matter. It's hard to not think of someone as a centrist when they have a long time behavior of attacking minorities who just want the Democrats to listen to them/attacking people, often minorities themselves, concerned with conservative economic policies and desire to see the income inequality gap reduced. Etc. etc. etc. It's certainly not everyone but to act like centrists aren't by and large the ones responding to them I don't understand.

You're so wrapped up in your tiny pity-party you forgot that a lot of those dreaded "centrists" are minorities as well.

Climb down off that cross, we need the nails.

 

[Ekai]

You're so wrapped up in your tiny pity-party you forgot that a lot of those dreaded "centrists" are minorities as well.

Climb down off that cross, we need the nails.

That's a very mature, reasoned response and fantastic coloring of my own points.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

How come? have her personal heritage and religious views manifested themselves in her public life? Has she changed her stances, just like Queen Cersei Hillary?

I don't think going to Syria on Assad's dime and then coming to America to go on Tucker Carlson's show to talk about how he's really just a victim in this conflict is cool.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

This is the rhetoric sent in a recent email, btw.

Over 100,000 of you signed our petition in support of the People's Platform, but when we went to deliver it to DNC headquarters they did not appreciate our presence. Despite the attendance of current and former DNC officials and Members of Congress in our group, we were shut out from entering the building. Citizens engaging in the democratic process deserve better and despite what happened, we will continue pushing for policies that enhance the quality of life for all.

We cannot wait for change, we need to make the change we want to see happen. Together, we made the DNC “Feel the Bern” last summer with sustained grassroots pressure and adopted the most progressive platform in the Democratic Party's modern history, but since then they have pushed back at every turn. We need to show House Democrats that our grassroots movement is more powerful than the party establishment. Will you donate $3, or however much you can afford to help Our Revolution continue our campaign and keep the pressure on for our Summer for Progress?

Unlike the presidential primaries where millions of independent voters were barred from state primaries and caucuses, our push for the People's Platform does not restrict people based on arcane party rules—it's just about us. With the full participation of voters of all party affiliations who believe in our progressive ideals and the People's Platform, we can present a united front that is more powerful than the sequestered party elites who resist the change we need to see. It is time to make the Democratic Party “Feel the Bern” again.

Chip in $3 to Our Revolution and help win over House Democrats to support the People's Platform.

The DNC may think that they can continue working behind closed doors, but they will know different when millions of us come knocking.

In solidarity,
Nina Turner
President
Our Revolution

 

[Suikoguy]

This is the rhetoric sent in a recent email, btw.

Would have been so easy to call ahead, but then she could not fundraise off from it.

 

[Veitsev]

This is the rhetoric sent in a recent email, btw.

I went and edited that down to the important bits

it's just about us.

In solidarity,
Nina Turner
President
Our Revolution

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Every American will witness that she is a passionate fighter for the people, against manufactured "progressives" like Kamala Harris. Bring on that primary!

Jesus Christ.

I’m about 50/50 right now on whether or not this is a parody account. I find it hard to believe that anyone actually talks in sound bites and pamphlet blurbs.

 

[jack_package_200]

This is the rhetoric sent in a recent email, btw.

1. You brought 60 people with you and a megaphone. You weren't trying to have a conversation

Unlike the presidential primaries where millions of independent voters were barred from state primaries and caucuses, our push for the People's Platform does not restrict people based on arcane party rules—it's just about us.

2. Thats a cute way of saying rigged primary

 

[Big Baybee]

I still have not been presented with convincing reasons why democratic party primaries should be open to people who aren't members of the democratic party.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

That's a very mature, reasoned response and fantastic coloring of my own points.

Do you disagree that a large portion of Clinton's (ie Centrists) voters are minorities themselves? If you agree, then my comment stands.

 

[Ekai]

Do you disagree that a large portion of Clinton's (ie Centrists) voters are minorities themselves? If you agree, then my comment stands.

Your response had about nothing to do with my statements so I don't see the point in entertaining you.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Your response had about nothing to do with my statements so I don't see the point in entertaining you.

Perhaps what I needed was to show up at your place of work with a megaphone and 60 people before it's properly received, eh?

 

[Mael]

You completely ignored the only hard data in this thread that showed way more Fillon voters go to Le Pen than left voters. If you still think that horseshoe theory manifested itself in the recent election in France, go ahead.

Holy shit I reread your post, you're bad at this.
You showed a poll that is not event representative of the election (off by more than 4points on each candidates, inaccurate number of non voting population, etc).
I bring actual election results spanning the last 10 years and I'm the one not bringing hard data?
Are you going to claim Mélenchon is the current president of the French Republic?
Because that's about as good an argument you can make with the data you're providing.
For your knowledge the 2nd round of the election actually had more people NOT voting than people voting for Lepen (10 638 475 for Lepen, 12 101 366 not voting, Macron did 20 743 128 by the way).
Are you going to throw official election results as bad data and claim polls are more accurate?

 

[Veitsev]

I still have not been presented with convincing reasons why democratic party primaries should be open to people who aren't members of the democratic party.

They believe that there was a secret untapped reservoir of voters that would have overwhelming voted Bernie.

The only people that voted Clinton are centrist, neo-liberal, establishment loving tools.

Spoiler

Well, that or not white.

Any other group would have course been unable to stop themselves from feeling the "bern".

 

[excelsiorlef]

They're proposing generally leftist ideas and are being met by people staunchly opposed to pretty much any leftist front. Not just that, they're being personally insulted for even proposing what they say. It reminds me of primary garbage when leftists who had basic criticisms (but did vote for Hillary regardless, as the facts show despite some Hillary supporters from then repeating the lie that we didn't by and large) had their character assassinated just for speaking their mind on the matter. It's hard to not think of someone as a centrist when they have a long time behavior of attacking minorities who just want the Democrats to listen to them/attacking people, often minorities themselves, concerned with conservative economic policies and desire to see the income inequality gap reduced. Etc. etc. etc. It's certainly not everyone but to act like centrists aren't by and large the ones responding to them I don't understand. I don't care to see leftists continually disparaged. This constant drudging up of the primary that centrists do needs to stop. But they seem very resistant to embracing the left wing and just want to blame us regardless so it's hard to not get annoyed at all of this.

You're inability to understand that you don't actually get to determine who isn't progressive continues. Also you seem to be combining people outside this forum with the people in this thread. My comment was directly derived from you saying the people responding to mlclmtckr's posts were centrists

Also please stop pretending like Sanders alligned folks aren't hugely guilty of drudging up the primary. Shit Turner's fundraising email based of this incident is full of drudging up the primaries and doubling down on the it was all rigged narrative

If you don't want to see leftists "disparaged" (and I'm speaking mostly about here because in this case we're literally talking about Turner and Our Revolution) demand better leftists.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I still have not been presented with convincing reasons why democratic party primaries should be open to people who aren't members of the democratic party.

I similarly don't understand why some think that opening up primaries to non-members would be a positive thing for candidates on the left. Seems like it'd do the opposite to me, unless Republicans or whoever decide to vote for a really weak leftist candidate to sabotage the process.

 

[thehypocrite]

Nothing wrong with water. Donuts I could do without.

 

[jack_package_200]

I still have not been presented with convincing reasons why democratic party primaries should be open to people who aren't members of the democratic party.

"We don't want to be associated with your corporate political party but we demand a right to participate in your elections"

idk

 

[Suikoguy]

"We don't want to be associated with your corporate political party but we demand a right to participate in your elections"

idk

The only argument i've seen that's rational, is since public money helps fund the primaries it should be open to all.

 

[Link]

Welp, this is not how I thought this thread would pan out.

Really? It's pretty much gone exactly as I thought it would.

 

[Ekai]

Perhaps what I needed was to show up at your place of work with a megaphone and 60 people before it's properly received, eh?

Again, very reasoned and mature.

You're inability to understand that you don't actually get to determine who isn't progressive continues. Also you seem to be combining people outside this forum with the people in this thread. My comment was directly derived from you saying the people responding to mlclmtckr's posts were centrists

Also please stop pretending like Sanders alligned folks aren't hugely guilty of drudging up the primary. Shit Turner's fundraising email based of this incident is full of drudging up the primaries and doubling down on the it was all rigged narrative

If you don't want to see leftists "disparaged" (and I'm speaking mostly about here because in this case we're literally talking about Turner and Our Revolution) demand better leftists.

When I see some attacking mlcmtckr personally over his statements here and saw those same people attacking minorities during the primary for not "falling in line" fast enough when we only wanted our voices heard, it's hard to not see some of those people as centrist. I don't know what else to tell you.

Certainly some leftists bring up the primary and I don't at all disagree with your assessment of Turner's e-mail/her actions here. Though I do understand them to some degree. But by and large I've seen it come from centrists (both here and off gaf) as an excuse to attack Bernie for some reason/leftists. This despite how much we backed Hillary. It straight up happens more than it should in OT, to this day no less. Often it's focused on Bernie as well for some weird reason. Like his recent no vote on a bill that would fuck over the poor on med costs. Rather than discuss the implications of the bill and how alarming it should be that it got the support it did from both sides of the aisle, it was a topic focused ,right from the get go of the OP's post and title, on attacking Bernie for his vote. There's many other examples but it's the first that comes to mind.

It's ridiculous how much the primaries get brought up around here and how often it's done to go after leftists. We have to repeat ad infinity just how many leftists actually did back Hillary during the election. It's fricking tiring to deal with the same people making the same intellectually dishonest arguments day in and day out. Not just that but sincere desires to get rid of the leftists from the party being expressed by some in this topic and elsewhere should be what causes more alarm in my eyes.

I would demand not just that but that leftists actually get on the platform. That they actually get listened to rather than paid lipservice by Democrats who just want our votes before they toss us under the bus. I would also demand that they stop being unfairly maligned while we get tossed under/told we have to vote for the Dems. Like, I have no other choice, you people already have me hostage by virture of there being only two options and the other is the one that actively works against me and all I hold dear. This option should be better. All I've ever asked is that they just listen for once. Rather than attack our character (with outright lies most often), wonder why anyone should take us seriously when we are bringing plenty of points to the table, throw us under when you get your use out of us, etc. etc. etc.

I don't have anything else to say on the subject, excelsior. If you wish to discuss it with me further, pm me or contact me through other means. However, I earnestly don't care to go over this same ground (and would be welcome to actually new discussion) because all it does is piss me off at seeing centrists continue to treat minorities like shit while they use other minorities as a shield. I don't care to see people sincerely say I should be kicked out of the party for fricking wanting equal human rights. For wanting better for other minorities. For wanting better for the poor. For wanting better for the environment. For demanding better of the Democrats. For asking that they stand by their principles. For etc. etc. etc.

Some of the Dems don't listen and some actively hate us for even trying to get them to. The party desperately needs an overhaul and the constant primary dreading and personal attacks really don't help my view that the centrists are similar to the right-wing in some regards. Actual conversation should happen but instead I just see leftists insulted for being who they are. It's frustrating and makes discourse around here and elsewhere practically impossible at times.

 

[Link]

Again, very reasoned and mature.

Just as reasoned and mature as Turner's display.

 

[Ekai]

Just as reasoned and mature as Turner's display.

You're really trying to give credence to someone who started with responding to me in an immature manner? I already stated my view on Turner's action. Your post isn't a gotcha here.

 

[shamanick]

Holy shit I reread your post, you're bad at this.
You showed a poll that is not event representative of the election (off by more than 4points on each candidates, inaccurate number of non voting population, etc).
I bring actual election results spanning the last 10 years and I'm the one not bringing hard data?
Are you going to claim Mélenchon is the current president of the French Republic?
Because that's about as good an argument you can make with the data you're providing.
For your knowledge the 2nd round of the election actually had more people NOT voting than people voting for Lepen (10 638 475 for Lepen, 12 101 366 not voting, Macron did 20 743 128 by the way).
Are you going to throw official election results as bad data and claim polls are more accurate?

What are you talking about? I was referring to the voter intention poll in the link I posted:

Macron inherits
43% of Fillon's voters
70% of Hamon's voters
50% of Mélenchon's voters
Le Pen inherits
31% of Fillon's voters
3% of Hamon's voters
12% of Mélenchon's voters

If you have more recent/accurate numbers feel free to share them

 

[jack_package_200]

You're really trying to give credence to someone who started with responding to me in an immature manner? I already stated my view on Turner's action. Your post isn't a gotcha here.

Care to restate?

I browsed through the thread and earliest posts I could find were about the article being very centrist and about fish hook theory

 

[dakilla13]

If Bernie's movement was so revolutionary and so many people loved him as Bernie Bros will remind you every chance they get, why couldn't he run as an Independent and swept the election against Clinton and Trump?

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

 

[jack_package_200]

And there it is. Kamala Harris bribing people with corporate pastries.

Shameful

 

[Ekai]

Care to restate?

I browsed through the thread and earliest posts I could find were about the article being very centrist and about fish hook theory

I didn't state anything about the article itself but rather the racist tone at hand. I also stated in my most recent post that I don't agree with Nina's e-mail. I further clarified that her actions here are ones I don't agree with either.

 

[jack_package_200]

I didn't state anything about the article itself but rather the racist tone at hand. I also stated in my most recent post that I don't agree with Nina's e-mail. I further clarified that her actions here are ones I don't agree with either.

Thank you

 

[Mael]

What are you talking about? I was referring to the voter intention poll in the link I posted:

Macron inherits
43% of Fillon's voters
70% of Hamon's voters
50% of Mélenchon's voters
Le Pen inherits
31% of Fillon's voters
3% of Hamon's voters
12% of Mélenchon's voters

If you have more recent/accurate numbers feel free to share them

Your data is useless because it's not inline with how people voted in the election.
The election happened we know the margins and how people voted.
And your poll is inaccurate compared to the result (60/40 vs 66/33).
And as for the numbers you showed it tells us mostly nothing for the horseshoe or fishhook theory.
People on the left mostly voted for the centrist and people on the right mostly voted for the centrist too.
Some people on the right have been expected to go far right as there's been talks between Fillon's people (mostly rogues) and Lepen's people.

Again from the official numbers we have :
Lepen at 10 638 475 (and from the holdover from the 1st round, she and her associates did 7 678 491 + 1 695 000 = 9 373 491 so roughly she got 14% of fillon's vote IF all her votes came from Fillon which is a very big assumption).
And if we go this way and do the same simple calculus for Macron, if he got voters in that order : Macron, then Mélenchon, then Hamon, then basically everyone else and Fillon last (no lepen of course), Macron still got far more people from Fillon than Lepen did (roughly 2M).

But if you prefer articles, googletrad is there for you
And also this one.
the 2nd is actually more interesting as people who voted for Dupont Aignan were nearly evenly split between Lepen and Macron.
Dupont Aignan basically allied himself to Lepen for the 2nd round and called to vote for her. And EVEN THEN they didn't vote for her in the end.
So even the far right doesn't vote for the far right in the end.

So the fishhook theory that the center is closer to the far right? BS.
Most people who voted, overwhelmingly choose the centrist over the far right fascist....nearly even among the less centrist rigthwing.

 

[Suikoguy]

Some of the Dems don't listen and some actively hate us for even trying to get them to. The party desperately needs an overhaul and the constant primary dreading and personal attacks really don't help my view that the centrists are similar to the right-wing in some regards. Actual conversation should happen but instead I just see leftists insulted for being who they are. It's frustrating and makes discourse around here and elsewhere practically impossible at times.

You do know this goes both ways right?
Not all centrists fit the same mold, and we need as many of their votes as we can get.

Spoiler

You being a big culprit actually

Edit: Actually, that could be read two ways. I read it as attacking people for being "leftist". If you meant the other, than this post was pointless.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

If Bernie's movement was so revolutionary and so many people loved him as Bernie Bros will remind you every chance they get, why couldn't he run as an Independent and swept the election against Clinton and Trump?

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Because what they don't tell you is that for their revolution to even get off the ground, they need the social, fiscal, and IT infrastructure of the DCCC/ DNC.

What the Turners of the world forgot is that those "centrists" and icky party members have paid in blood, sweat, and treasure to build a party. Turner expects to be handed that party. Where are all the OR/Bernie council members and state House members? They don't exist in numbers which can brute-force large policy changes. So instead of building capital within their communities to get their own folks elected, they're gonna whine that the process is rigged and anyone who wants to actually craft laws is some sort of trojan horse for the 1%

 

[El_Tiguere]

I don't think going to Syria on Assad's dime and then coming to America to go on Tucker Carlson's show to talk about how he's really just a victim in this conflict is cool.

Sorry breh... after 14 years and trillions upon trillions of dollars handed out to military contractors and mercenaries BECAUSE OF A TOTAL BULLSHIT REGIME CHANGE WAR BEING PROPAGANDIZED BY THE WAR PARTIES FOR THEIR OWN PROFITS (both sides and the media), since the usual suspects were once again selling a total bullshit regime change war (for their own profit) with Syria, I am glad Tulsi decided a separate set of eyes was needed on the ground to cross-check the bullshit warmonger propaganda claims being spewed constantly to us in the United States.

You need to accept the reality that this is how progressive human beings see Tulsi Gabbard:

She is a war veteran who sacrificed her life, and saw friends die for one of these illicit wars. As a Senator, in her capacity to arrange meetings inside Syria, and knowing that Syria is a corporate/geopolitical proxy war between the West/Israel/Saudid/Qatar and Russia/Iran over ultimately dumb shit... she figured she would go there and report back. We pacifists tired of the racket of wars appreciate that.

 

[Ekai]

You do know this goes both ways right?
Not all centrists fit the same mold, and we need as many of their votes as we can get.

Spoiler

You being a big culprit actually

When did I say centrists don't contribute?

Spoiler

I could say likewise regarding yourself but okay. I'm just reacting to what I see, if it makes me a big culprit in your eyes, so be it.

 

[JustenP88]

We gotta get this money outta these politics, maaaayne.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

She is a war veteran who sacrificed her life, and saw friends die for one of these illicit wars. As a Senator...

Hmmm

Well, I guess Tulsi would appreciate the promotion to Senator, but might be disappointed to find out she's dead.

Get back to me once she's accomplished something greater than being a dictator's mouthpiece.

 

[sangreal]

Oh, yea, the leftists should get kicked out of the party, that way Democrats can fulfill their destiny of effectively going into obscurity. All the while trying to appease an even further right-wing base of Republicans to join in on their centrist ideals. (Which even then will be compromised since they'll have to go further right in an attempt to appeal to the far-right base of Repubs). It'll work beautifully. How dare the left "hijack" the Democrats by attempting to make them stand for what they claim to support.

If I meant leftists, I would have said leftists. No, I am referring to these people who are only members of the Democratic party in so far as they see it as a means to be taken seriously because nobody would sign on to their own shitty party. These people who then turn around and shit on the party and its members at every opportunity. They actively dislike the party and only self-describe themselves as "leftists" or "progressives" but not Democrats. Oh, and of course the people who only join our party for long enough to fuck with our primaries, and then leave after the election. I have no problem with "leftists" who want to engage in honest participation within the party, even if that means driving the party further to the left. There is a process in place to build consensus and change the party platform or leadership. Joining the party and then demanding that all of the existing factions bend the knee is not honest participation. Or as Nina puts it, "It’s their job to fit in with us". She can fuck off. That's not the point of a political party

 

[El_Tiguere]

Hmmm

Well, I guess Tulsi would appreciate the promotion to Senator, but might be disappointed to find out she's dead.

Get back to me once she's accomplished something greater than being a dictator's mouthpiece.

I meant she served in combat in Iraq in multiple tours.

Get back when you can address the issue of pursuing truth when they are selling us another war, instead of insulting a woman Senator because of a soundbite you heard about her.