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[daviyoung]

To be more accurate, he's dismissing criticism from a single person's web article, whom does not represent their minority group in a spokesperson capacity. Considering that 90% of this minority group don't care about the word "Redskin" I'd expect a similar poll on the word "tribal" would likely garner a nearly 100% don't care attitude.

This article is representing an opinion that's on the fringe of the fringe. And because it is, the topic is being heatedly debated, and because it's being heatedly debated, people mistakenly believe it's a mainstream view instead of a fringe view, and feel more impassioned to argue about it. The developer is right to dismiss it until the opinion is validated by actual Native American representatives that organize and plan for their community, not just write off a reactionary article that's attempting to push back against those praising GG for their inclusivity.

Whew, lad

 

[gfxtwin]

Have you played it, finished it?

On paper the concept may seem 'absurd' but it's grounded and told very well considering the medium and shouldn't just be dismissed on outward appearance.

Yes, I'm playing it. I find it interesting (especially the attention to detail in bringing the environment and creatures to life) but the dialogue is not very good and the story is just cheesy. The Last Guardian it is not.

 

[travisbickle]

Yes, I'm playing it. I find it interesting (especially the attention to detail in bringing the environment and creatures to life) but the dialogue is not very good and the story is just cheesy. The Last Guardian it is not.

Within the first hour it's explained that

Spoiler

the dangerous robots have only been turning up within the last half century, and that's when the different tribes cultural and historical beliefs caused issues with how to respond to these new threats.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This game takes place in

Spoiler

Colorado....

You fuckass

LOL oh my God.

Seems like a rather big story point, isn't it, lol.

 

[eyeball_kid]

To be more accurate, he's dismissing criticism from a single person's web article, whom does not represent their minority group in a spokesperson capacity. Considering that 90% of this minority group don't care about the word "Redskin" I'd expect a similar poll on the word "tribal" would likely garner a nearly 100% don't care attitude.

Not to get too off-topic here, but that sounds like a BS poll. A survey sample of 340, which is far below what is necessary for statistical accuracy. We also don't know how these people were selected. Also, the question a person is asked can really affect a poll's outcome. I imagine if they were asked, "If someone called you a redskin, how would you feel?" would result in a different outcome. Replace "redskins" with "darkies" and then imagine a similar poll of black americans. Because that's basically what that name amounts to, a racist slur.

 

[PdotMichael]

To be more accurate, he's dismissing criticism from a single person's web article, whom does not represent their minority group in a spokesperson capacity. Considering that 90% of this minority group don't care about the word "Redskin" I'd expect a similar poll on the word "tribal" would likely garner a nearly 100% don't care attitude.

This article is representing an opinion that's on the fringe of the fringe. And because it is, the topic is being heatedly debated, and because it's being heatedly debated, people mistakenly believe it's a mainstream view instead of a fringe view, and feel more impassioned to argue about it. The developer is right to dismiss it until the opinion is validated by actual Native American representatives that organize and plan for their community, not just write off a reactionary article that's attempting to push back against those praising GG for their inclusivity.

Looking at the fact you can always see the same people like Crossing Eden argue in favour of the minority (at least they think they do) I get always the impression they don't really care about the topic itself ( or know anything about it) but they just love fighting the fight.p

 

[Playsage]

LOL oh my God.

Seems like a rather big story point, isn't it, lol.

Spoiler

It isn't

 

[S.W.]

First thing that came to mind, sorry.

Should we not be more interested in standing rock than some words of the english dictionary being used in their proper context?

This is totally out of topic but for some reason I keep hearing James May's voice from this gif....

 

[BossDarkseid]

Well, sometimes the purpose of art is indeed to offend. I haven't seen anything to indicate that's the case here.

What I have seen is a developer trying to point out how hard they supposedly worked to avoid giving offense, all of which makes me think they're striving toward inclusive ideals. It's quite jarring then to hear the same developer dismiss criticism from minorities who point out that despite these best intentions their culture has been appropriated.

IMO, GG can either (i) live up to their ideals by owning their mistakes and committing to doing better next time or; (ii) they can be callous dicks that deny everything and and blame outrage culture.

Tbh I don't interpret Gonzales' reply as discarding the critcism so much but that on the internet you get a full range of people who have opinions on a subject. I would hope/assume that the stinger of his reply was not meant in the way some could take it and either in DLC or a full fledged sequel they improve upon it. From the sounds of it they put in work on drawing from so many tribal cultures that I would assume that the use of Brave was purely because of where the game ends up being set, and I don't think it typically has negative connotations?

Or in 2021 we're all back on GAF, older and crankier and having the same arguments

As for the person on twitter...in general I would treat an anecdotal/unsourced condensed tweet very skeptically.

This whole discussion (which for the most part has been fairly polite) makes me really want to carry on with the game to see more of the diversity and tribal/cultural aspects. I dont mean to handwave any criticism but I would feel more disappointed if GG or other AAA Devs didnt try to have fresh perspectives and more diverse settings.

They might make mistakes along the way but that seems quite natural. I would see "do better next time" as a compliment.

 

[geordiemp]

Are we seriously supposed to believe Horizon's world was not inspired - at least in part - by Native America/Americans?

And btw yes, America is the center of the world when it comes to entertainment and pop culture. It's also the biggest market for PS4.

Yes, Celtic Britannia and Boudicca had tribes and red head warriors

https://www.tumblr.com/search/boudica-warrior-queen

As Guerilla was both UK and next door Holland based maybe we should do an article on why it took inspiration from tribal UK before Romans.

UK celtic tribes with red hair warriors : http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/iron_01.shtml

Not everything in this world is about USA.

 

[sneakyflute]

It's not about "sharing in shame". It's being aware of and sensitive to the cultural contexts of the society in which you live (whether that's Dutch or British white colonialism, or American slavery, genocide, and exploitation), especially if your heritage is of a culture which participated in these crimes against other races and cultures. None of us live in a bubble, especially when artistic works are concerned, and especially when someone takes cultural touchpoints from another culture that has been historically subjugated or marginalized.

So keeping that in mind, I don't know whether this is true or not, but if it is (and given the writer's kind of handwavy response, I'm leaning towards yes), it doesn't show much sensitivity or respect for the cultures they "borrowed" from for Horizon:

Indians were brutalizing one another and committing genocide long before Europeans stepped foot in this country. Their cultures don't need to be respected and romanticized just because they were vanquished by a superior foe.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I've yet to see an argument for cultural appropriation that wasn't inherently insular and conservative.

 

[Khoryos]

I've yet to see an argument for cultural appropriation that wasn't inherently insular and conservative.

Could you clarify this statement? I'm not sure if you mean cultural appropriation as a concept (As in, people arguing that something is cultural appropriation are inherently insular) or an action (So people that are defending actions accused of being appropriation are the conservative ones).

 

[Crossing Eden]

You fuckass

Literally known since the debut trailer the debut trailer....

Thanks for giving an actual example.

Someone who refers to themselves as a teacher should know how to better back up such claims without getting salty. But I guess that's why you also talk down to people by calling them "champ".

Your opinions are now completely null and void

Lol that's not how discussion works and fixed that for you. The article gave specific examples ffs it's in the OP and the article itself.

The story telling is above-average for a video game.

The naming conventions and details are YA novel quality.

The actual sotry itself is a fairly generic sci-fi tale, the idea behind Zero Dawn is neat but hardly anything super original.

Considering the medium? It's pretty good, yeh.

This is accurate based on the first five hours. YA novel quality especially as I can definitely imagine this being one considering the setup as an outcast, the proving to become accepted as one of the tribe, etc.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Looking at the fact you can always see the same people like Crossing Eden argue in favour of the minority (at least they think they do) I get always the impression they don't really care about the topic itself ( or know anything about it) but they just love fighting the fight.p

Likely this.

It's extremely clear that the designs of Horizon are an amalgam of things, and likely more Celtic than Native American, that's for sure. The author had a flawed assumption to begin with.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Literally known since the debut trailer the debut trailer....


Lol that's not how discussion works and fixed that for you. The article gave specific examples ffs it's in the OP and the article itself.


This is accurate based on the first five hours. YA novel quality especially as I can definitely imagine this being one considering the setup as an outcast, the proving to become accepted as one of the tribe, etc.

It gave apocryphal examples, and quotes attributed to no one specifically.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

How about when they're literally calling cultural appropriation on something inspired by an entirely different culture (or in this case array of cultures) than the one they're claiming is being appropriated?

The only things in Horizon clearly related to North American indigenous groups is a bit of buckskin on the main character and the term "brave" as a noun exclusively in that the prevailing usage in the U.S. today as a noun related to a baseball team mascot with history of offensive behavior.

That's it.

The original article had a really good point that video games journalism needs to step up it's game on asking these questions mid-process, but focusing that lens on Horizon dilutes that point almost entirely as it reveals that the author is working from an opposite and equally uninformed position.

The depressing thing is that because video game journalists can't be bothered to ask more probing questions and because people like the author in question can't be bothered to actually play the games and evaluate objectively themselves we miss out on what could otherwise be an educational assessment of the source cultures that inspired the aesthetic of Horizon.

I'll love a world where a VG journalist asked GG about this in a serious and professional manner months ago (not shouting at them during an E3 party) and then putting together an article outlining the heavy Slavic Rus influences in the Nora matriarch design, the clearly Scandinavian architecture and why they felt it fit with the geography of the Nora's lands, their inspiration for each tribal group, etc..

But we don't get to have that because VG journalists aren't aware enough to ask. But on the way to putting forth that very legitimate criticism of the industry the author of the original article got lost in the middle and we wound up with a discourse focused on what's wrong with Horizon, not how to have a more professional and culturally aware gaming press.

Graet post.

Is that a spoiler?

Sure is. Fuck this thread. :|

The game is using specific terminology most associated to native americans, (you and other gamers not being aware of that does not mean that it's not a common association).

You can't be serious. A single term means that Native American culture is the prime influence? LOL

So keeping that in mind, I don't know whether this is true or not, but if it is (and given the writer's kind of handwavy response, I'm leaning towards yes), it doesn't show much sensitivity or respect for the cultures they "borrowed" from for Horizon:

Yes, I also derive my world-view based on dubious tweets describing awkward encounters met with flippant remarks, because that is rock solid evidence.

 

[Three]

I would love to know crossing edens views on assassin's creed. Cultural appropriation to the extreme.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You can't be serious. A single term means that Native American culture is the prime influence? LOL

No not a single term, you realize the whole point of the criticism was the lack of acknowledgement over how these terms were historically used in relation to Native Americans, (and in some cases still are).

Sure is. Fuck this thread. :|

The game's location was shown literally the year it was announced. Unless it's a major in-game plot point WAY into the game, it's not a spoiler at all as it's so far into the future that the location is seemingly irrelevant.

I would love to know crossing edens views on assassin's creed. Cultural appropriation to the extreme.

False equivalence. Try using more critical thinking skills next time you wanna bring up a comparison. Especially considering the metric fuckton of cultural consultants they have on the series, and even then, it's not perfect and there are parts where they falter which has had the series face criticism with each title.
-AC3 mostly focusing on European side characters with the village mostly being side content despite saving them being the main goal, as well as some liberal use of the mystical native stereotype especially in the DLC
-ACU's use of the Queen's Latin trope where everyone inexplicably had a british accent despite the same animus glitch where they occasionally speak French
-AC:FC's problematic upgrade system where freeing quotas of slaves=upgrades
-AC1 having the main character have an American english accent because the VA "sounded cool."(to their credit they rectified this four years later)

like I said in another thread, with praise comes some criticism, even in terms of mostly positive representation. Yet some people ITT are acting like that writer kicked their dog when she wrote the most benign and unscathing article possible.

 

[Three]

False equivalence. Try using more critical thinking skills. Especially considering the metric fuckton of cultural consultants they have on the series, and even then, it's not perfect and there are parts where they falter
-AC3 mostly focusing on European side characters with the village mostly being side content despite being the main goal
-ACU's use of the Queen's Latin trope where everyone inexplicably had a british accent despite the same animus glitch where they occasionally speak French
-AC:FC's use of freeing a quota of slaves for upgrades
-AC1 having the main character have an American english accent because the VA "sounded cool."(to their credit they rectified this four years later)

like I said in another thread, with praise comes some criticism, even in terms of mostly positive representation. Yet some people ITT are acting like that writer kicked their dog when she wrote the most benign and unscathing article possible.

What cultural consultants worked on AC1? They weren't very good I guess. seems to be your defence of pretty much an equivalent, wait no not even implied by words but entire setting, in AC so even worse cultural appropriation. No I don't see the difference. Mind telling me where you are from btw because no the AC games aren't even close to "perfect".

 

[Crossing Eden]

What cultural consultants worked on AC1? They weren't very good I guess. seems to be your defence of pretty much an equivalent, wait no not even implied by words but entire setting, in AC so even worse cultural appropriation. No I don't see the difference. Mind telling me where you are from btw because no the AC games aren't even close to "perfect".

Again you're using the term completely wrong.
this is cultural appropriation:

this is not:

you realize these characters are POC in their own respective time periods?

Spoiler

Something you don't see everyday is game characters having to appeal to eurocentric standards of appearance/beauty, something both AC3/L tackle as subjects

educate yourself. Then again, this thread isn't about AC, if you legitimately wanna continue this poor line of thought, start a new thread about how AC=cultural appropriation. Instead of concern trolling and trying to deflect from the critique of Horizon.

 

[joms5]

I would love to know crossing edens views on assassin's creed. Cultural appropriation to the extreme.

Assassin's Creed could have been made by Donald Trump with all proceeds going to the devil himself and Crossing Eden would still defend that series.

You can't be objective when you belong to an Assassin's Creed fansite and have one of the characters as your Twitter profile picture.

 

[Three]

Again you're using the term completely wrong.
this is cultural appropriation:

this is not:

you realize these characters are POC in their own respective time periods? educate yourself. Then again, this thread isn't about AC, if you legitimately wanna continue this poor line of thought, start a new thread about how AC=cultural appropriation. Instead of concern trolling and trying to deflect from the critique of Horizon.

You've posted this video in this thread twice now and still your argument with it doesn't hold any water. What is your point exactly with it. Instead of saying my argument is not thought out or is uneducated educate me. Go on what in that video should I be looking out for that suggests the hoody wearing Desmond is not cultural appropriation. If anything it cements the idea that AC and the AC image is cultural appropriation too.

 

[thumb]

You've posted this video in this thread twice now and still your argument with it doesn't hold any water. What is your point exactly with it. Instead of saying my argument is not thought out or is uneducated educate me. Go on what in that video should I be looking out for that suggests the hoody wearing Desmond is not cultural appropriation. If anything it cements the idea that AC and the AC image is cultural appropriation too.

If AC is cultural appropriation--and I'm not saying it is--why is it relevant to this thread? Even if you end up successfully arguing that Crossing Eden a hypocrite, it doesn't make him wrong, just inconsistent.

 

[Fnord]

It's already been explained ITT that cultural appropriation and cultural exchange are two different things, keep up. And bullshit, it's 2017 and you've never heard such a commonly used term?

I had never heard the term until 2017. And it's not like I'm sheltered.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You've posted this video in this thread twice now and still your argument with it doesn't hold any water. What is your point exactly with it. Instead of saying my argument is not thought out or is uneducated educate me. Go on what in that video should I be looking out for that suggests the hoody wearing Desmond is not cultural appropriation. If anything it cements the idea that AC and the AC image is cultural appropriation too.

Desmond is a POC reliving the lives of his ancestors. Oh my lord lol.

If AC is cultural appropriation--and I'm not saying it is--why is it relevant to this thread? Even if you end up successfully arguing that Crossing Eden a hypocrite, it doesn't make him wrong, just inconsistent.

It's a really transparent attempt at a derail.

 

[Fnord]

On topic, I would have appreciated more specificity in the author's complaints about Horizon. She talks about word use, but doesn't provide context. My experience in the game thus far suggests that words like "primitive" and "savage" are not used to talk down to people who live tribal lifestyles. They seem to be about a different level of contempt.

Also, I think that the writers of Horizon could have chosen different words when describing the life ways of the word's inhabitants. It's true that, as a form political organization, "tribes" still exist. But what Horizon's authors really meant was small-scale hunting and gathering societies. Using "tribal" as a shorthand for this was understandable, but lead to at least some problems. They should have spoken with an anthropologist or historian of some sort.

"Tribe

a : a social group comprising numerous families, clans, or generations together with slaves, dependents, or adopted strangers
b : a political division of the Roman people originally representing one of the three original tribes of ancient Rome
c : phyle
2
: a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest
3
: a category of taxonomic classification ranking below a subfamily; also : a natural group irrespective of taxonomic rank the cat tribe the rose tribe"

No. No, they shouldn't have. "Tribe" is 100% accurate and appropriate in the context of the game. If the use of the word offends some miniscule set of outliers, then that's on them.

 

[Fnord]

Anthropologists now bicker about the precision of Service's original classification, some of them rejecting it outright for having too many edge cases. In terms of speaking for other anthropologists, I would feel confident in saying that most would feel uncomfortable with using "tribal" as a way to seemingly emphasize primitiveness, e.g., the idea that we "reverted" to tribes. This is especially so given that tribes still exist in one form or another.

I would use "small-scale hunter-gatherer" because it avoids the social and academic baggage around "tribe" and encompasses a number of different sociopolitical systems, including bands and chiefdoms, both of which seem to be present in Horizon. And I would use "hunter-gatherer" because I have not seen much in the way or horticulture or pastoralism.

Because, "You have to stay with the 'small-scale hunter-gatherer group', Aloy," just rolls right off the tongue.

And there's nothing about the use of "tribe" in the game that specifies that it is related to being primitive. It's the social structure that was born out of a massive calamity. And, in that respect, makes complete sense. There was an apocalypse, people were strewn far and wide. They began meeting up and formed small groups - tribes. They're not tribes because they're primitive, they're tribes because of how they're structured.

 

[Fnord]

Maybe Guerilla Games should go back to the status quo and stick with neutral white washed characters and stories. Whenever developers and publishers try to shoot for diversity, there's always someone or group that will be offended or feel offended for someone else. Case in point: Ubisoft.

It's a shame because as a minority, I want more diverse games.

Best wishes.

Or culturally appropriating Nazis.

 

[Fnord]

Okay, I hate to use your post as a launch pad for a larger point, but I think you're being entirely too glib. Guerrilla has received heaps of praise for having a well-developed female protagonist in a wonderfully realized world. The idea that a single critique from a Native America woman invites the kind of bitterness shown in your post is just ridiculous.

And I would encourage anyone to have a look at Guerrilla's instagram right now, which is just filled with what looks like a bunch of white girls dressed as cartoon Native Americans. Yes, in this case it's not the same thing as literally dressing up as a Native American. But you can see how it might make at least some natives a tad uncomfortable, no?

Or like an ancient Celtic warrior.

 

[Needlecrash]

It's a video game for Christ's sake.

 

[sasliquid]

It's a video game for Christ's sake.

So let's treat it with the respect it deserves. Wether you agree with the criticism or not, you undermine the art form with comments like this.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It's a video game for Christ's sake.

Can I use this argument when people bitch about spoilers, framerate, resolution or exclusive launch?

 

[thumb]

Because, "You have to stay with the 'small-scale hunter-gatherer group', Aloy," just rolls right off the tongue.

And there's nothing about the use of "tribe" in the game that specifies that it is related to being primitive. It's the social structure that was born out of a massive calamity. And, in that respect, makes complete sense. There was an apocalypse, people were strewn far and wide. They began meeting up and formed small groups - tribes. They're not tribes because they're primitive, they're tribes because of how they're structured.

You identified a number of my posts, but missed the one where I respond to a poster asking whether I meant that "small-scale hunter gather" should be used in in-game dialog. I didnt. I was talking about marketing and promotional materials, and specifically commenting on the concerns of the author of the medium piece.

 

[thumb]

Or like an ancient Celtic warrior.

Talk more about "ancient Celtic warriors". When I look for information on them, and depictions of them in art, they look very little like Aloy's group. Or at least, an amalgam of native American traditions and stereotypes looks like a much better match.

 

[the-pi-guy]

The game's location was shown literally the year it was announced. Unless it's a major in-game plot point WAY into the game, it's not a spoiler at all as it's so far into the future that the location is seemingly irrelevant.

Technically the location wasn't shown at all by the devs. It was a random person who put the pieces together and found out where it took place.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Horizon's location isnt a spoiler, just a nice easter egg.

 

[Ponn]

No not a single term, you realize the whole point of the criticism was the lack of acknowledgement over how these terms were historically used in relation to Native Americans, (and in some cases still are).

The thread for that quote was you saying those couple terms was the "big influence" for that tribe being modeled after Native Americans. Your response here is gibberish and deflecting. Stop telling people to read an article we already have and start backing up your own faulty claims with some actual evidence or at least try to explain how you are getting from point A to point Z.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Is that a spoiler? Because I don't remember seeing that in game? I just figured it was future land somewhere on the earth.

Sure is. Fuck this thread. :|

I really don't think that detail matters guys. I found out from a vantage point when I saw an echo of what was presumably

Spoiler

Denver

Football Stadium, and it was mentioned as

Spoiler

Denver

in a voice log. I've got a feeling I read it in one of the log book notes you pick up too.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

You can't do or say anything anymore. Some folks are so PC it's starting to get to me. I myself, walk on eggshells because I can be so inappropriate I constantly have to check myself on what to say or how to say it.

Having said that, my mom has a mini collection of Native American statues, she just loves them. When I got the LE of HZD, she saw the statue of Aloy and was like "can I have her?"

I gave it to her and she put Aloy right next to her other Native American statues. Btw my moms is Puerto Rican and doesn't call them Native Americans. She calls them "Indios" Indians in Spanish. I ain't correcting her.

My momz would be tight if she found out I moved these statues btw lol

 

[Screaming Meat]

A survey sample of 340, which is far below what is necessary for statistical accuracy.

What's the set number a poll has to reach before it can be considered statistically accurate?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

You can't do or say anything anymore. Some folks are so PC it's starting to get to me. I myself, walk on eggshells because I can be so inappropriate I constantly have to check myself on what to say or how to say it.

Having to watch what you say is a bad thing?

I don't get how one essay about a game that is going to sell millions and be played by millions is the world being to PC. So miorities cannot discuss their persoective on how they view a game? So if they see issues with some sort of portrayal and they point it out that is being too sensitive?

Some of yall are hilarious.

What's the set number a poll has to reach before it can be considered statistically accurate?

Depends on the population size it is estimating. Depends on the level of confidence wanted by the results. The population needs to be unbias. There are a lot of factors to consider. I didnt exolore the sampling method however.

That said I wouldn't take the idea 90% of Native Americans are fine being calledred skins and run with it personally. But if yall wanna go down that path though.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Depends on the population size it is estimating. Depends on the level of confidence wanted by the results.

Thanks.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Thanks.

I'm not saying the poll is wrong for reference since I didnt read the sampling method. I don't personally think it matters because if we all started calling Native Americans red skins starting today it would not be taken kindly.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Talk more about "ancient Celtic warriors". When I look for information on them, and depictions of them in art, they look very little like Aloy's group. Or at least, an amalgam of native American traditions and stereotypes looks like a much better match.

Kind of what you might expect of a tribal culture that emerged from American society

 

[Teletraan1]

I don't think this game was actually appropriating the culture of Native Americans. Seems to be a total mish mash of all kinds of cultures. Kind of embarrassing if you don't even know your own culture enough that you would mistake it for being represented in the game.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I'm not saying the poll is wrong for reference since I didnt read the sampling method.

Sure, I appreciate that. I was just interested in whether there was a threshold for statistical accuracy.

 

[RalchAC]

You can't do or say anything anymore. Some folks are so PC it's starting to get to me. I myself, walk on eggshells because I can be so inappropriate I constantly have to check myself on what to say or how to say it.

Having said that, my mom has a mini collection of Native American statues, she just loves them. When I got the LE of HZD, she saw the statue of Aloy and was like "can I have her?"

I gave it to her and she put Aloy right next to her other Native American statues. Btw my moms is Puerto Rican and doesn't call them Native Americans. She calls them "Indios" Indians in Spanish. I ain't correcting her.

My momz would be tight if she found out I moved these statues btw lol

Spanish people call both native americans and people from India "indios", which could be translated as "indians". Colombus enterprise was to prove that the world is an sphere by traveling from Europe to India without following the African coast and he found that there was a continent in the middle. He didn't notice it at first.

That's why I've been told they're called "indios americanos" ("american indians") often by us.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Sure, I appreciate that. I was just interested in whether there was a threshold for statistical accuracy.

Yeah. Basically it's based on the population size you are estimating and your level of confidence you want in your results. (Well there are lots of other things but I would be 99% positiive they are using a normal distribution) The sample size you need to have 99% confidence is significantly higher than 95% which is a good deal higher than 90% and so on. I would assume they are using 95% confidence since its pretty standard.

The other factor is getting an unbias sample. Not bias in the sense of responses but more so that your sample is random and reflective of the population you are estimating. Pretty much any statistic you read should detail the methodolgy. It's questionable if they dont lay out the data set.

 

[The Salt Life]

The game's location was shown literally the year it was announced. Unless it's a major in-game plot point WAY into the game, it's not a spoiler at all as it's so far into the future that the location is seemingly irrelevant.

Some people like myself saw the original E3 trailer and didn't want to follow news on it so not to be spoiled on anything. I just found my first Holo deck thing with stories of the past a day after reading this thread. With about 99 more to find I would have liked to find the location on my own. Not be told via a random thread