• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hostage situation at a church near Rouen in northern France (Update: it's over)

Status
Not open for further replies.
If we had far right governments 20 years ago who had stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

LOL. Do you think the 'left' did that out of altruism? They wanted cheap labour. And then noone gave a fuck about them because nobody thought they would stay. But then again all immigrants are bad then. Nice broad brush you have there. How about you say what you really think?
 
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

Oh, it's so simple! God be praised, the sun has revealed itself.
 

RangerX

Banned
These attacks are coordinated to make us turn on Muslims, IF the perpetrators are Terrorists.We shouldn't jump to conclusions. If they are though, we must resist them. I've seen it here in Ireland where people are becoming afraid of Muslims. We must stand beside the vast majority of innocent and compassionate Muslims and not let hate consume us.

My heart goes out to the family of that priest. He was 86. Fuckin hell.
 

2MF

Member
I never thought I would say US politics was in a better state than European politics. Some people hear are proof of that.

I don't think it is. In the US your two party system is very ingrained, while in Europe smaller parties still have a chance of mattering (even if often two parties dominate unfortunately).

And European candidates similar to Trump are not polling at 44% or anywhere near that AFAIK.
 
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

Jean-Marie Le Pen elected in 1995 would have led to less tension between white and Arab French today? You're not living in the real world.
 
No, he is right. This is 100% the fault of left. Politicians like Merkel are fully to blame for the current situation of Europe.

I didn't know Merkel was left-wing, instead of you know, a conservative. Almost makes me feel glad that Brexit happened if this kind of thinking is now common.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

Plenty of conservative parties have hold office across Europe during that time.

None of them have done shit.

Right wing parties like to look the other way because fixing immigration requires money, but they will so happily stoke the flames with casual racism and dog whistles as substitute for actual policy.

Left wing parties like to look the other way because "racism" and their own colossal ineptitude.

Framing it as a right or left issue is silly if not outright dishonest.
 

Chuckie

Member
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

This is the same bullshit right winged people say in the Netherlands. While the simple fact is that the 'left' has never had a majority in seats in the Netherlands. The central and right-winged parties have always had the 'power' to stop anything the left came up with.
 
It's too early to say France is doing something wrong, they seem to be the new target. That could change at any time. How much has France's air strikes, Hollande using terms to describe IS and other things like the mocking in a cartoon altered things for the time being?

UK has been good so far in foiling larger organized attacks but how long can you keep on top. Also these smaller but equally tragic attacks are very hard to stop. The attempted abducted soldier could've been one.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I'm in that camp, because the rise of the far right will spiral into even more attacks, more violence, more people dying.

The rise of far-right is indeed a scary prospect. However, I have yet to see a contemporary right-winger in France, Germany, and so on, who calls for his voters to blow themselves up in crowds of hundreds of innocents As far as I know, no right-wing party commands a paramilitary like the Nazis did. We are still democracies. The greatest blasphemy against western liberal values comes from those who want to remove almost every civil liberty that we value, want to burn people alive, throw gays from rooftops, slaughter people by the thousands, and use that as propaganda to recruit people, including Europeans.

The best medicine against the far-right is to concentrate on the actual root cause of our problems and thus drain their key selling point. We should not surrender ourselves to the far-right by reducing our politics to simplistic opposition to far-right talking points. That is granting them too much importance.

Even if one is of the opinion that there is nothing practical to be done because such attacks are avoidable, a more honest rhetoric would go a long way. David Cameron's speech on extremism is a good example on how this can be done in a non-inflamatory, inclusive, but frank way. If more people would speak like this, less people would migrate to far-right parties.
 
These attacks are coordinated to make us turn on Muslims, IF the perpetrators are Terrorists.We shouldn't jump to conclusions. If they are though, we must resist them. I've seen it here in Ireland where people are becoming afraid of Muslims. We must stand beside the vast majority of innocent and compassionate Muslims and not let hate consume us.

My heart goes out to the family of that priest. He was 86. Fuckin hell.

Terrorists are already convinced that we have it out for them, by merely resisting their efforts in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Syria.

They do not give a fuck about Muslim moderates half a world over who they'd likely slaughter if they got their hands on them, they want to kill Westerners to influence our foreign, not domestic, policy. It has the added side effect of of further marginalizing Muslims, but that only works because integrating Muslims into the EU has by and large been an abject failure.

Edit: the far right has seen a resurgence in Europe because the left refused to acknowledge the crisis of integration under the guise of being politically correct. Hiding the nationality of crime perps does not make a crime go away, nor does it build trust when the public eventually finds out. The refugee bubble was always going to be short lived in countries with strong social services.
 

keuja

Member
These attacks are coordinated to make us turn on Muslims, IF the perpetrators are Terrorists.We shouldn't jump to conclusions. If they are though, we must resist them. I've seen it here in Ireland where people are becoming afraid of Muslims. We must stand beside the vast majority of innocent and compassionate Muslims and not let hate consume us.

My heart goes out to the family of that priest. He was 86. Fuckin hell.

I'm pretty sure they are islamic terrorists. They attacked during the mass. And usually deranged people would act alone.
There were only two nuns, four church goers, and the priest in the church.
RIP :(
 

RazMaTaz

Banned
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

.....yeah, because illegal immigrants don't exist either.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
A priest was beheaded by islamists, a good opportunity to rail on Trump and the right wing.

So is this confirmed? I found no source yet, everywhere it just says that the motive are yet to be investiagated.

And by the way, the discussion went pretty fast in the way that immigrants are all shit without any confirmation of any motives or identities, so its no wonder that brought up the right wing here.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
What misinformation? Obviously I was implying this is likely islamic terrorism, although we don't know for sure yet.

What made you think I was posting sure facts?

Nobody was beheaded yet people keep repeating it as if it was real. That's called "spreading misinformation". Unless of course you have information I don't.

A priest was beheaded by islamists, a good opportunity to rail on Trump and the right wing.

Quod erat demonstrandum
 

2MF

Member
but posting misinformation, then saying "well why would you think I was posting facts?" is still kind of a dick move.

But what misinformation? I posted some sarcasm, I must have missed the memo of Neogaf becoming a news website where every post is factual.

Maybe you need some morning coffee, assuming it's morning there. I'm about to have one myself, see you soon.

Nobody was beheaded yet people keep repeating it as if it was real. That's called "spreading misinformation".

Nobody was beheaded?? If that's the case then OK. Pretty sure I read that in several places.
 

Alx

Member
So is this confirmed? I found no source yet, everywhere it just says that the motive are yet to be investiagated.

Nothing confirmed one way or another. The latest official statement at 12:12 CET didn't mention any motive or details on the attacker. Only that they were "neutralized" when they left the church.
 

RangerX

Banned
No, he is right. This is 100% the fault of left. Politicians like Merkel are fully to blame for the current situation of Europe.

Merkel isn't left wing. What are you on about. New Labour were also straight Center. Foreign Policy and a lack of integration, which can hardly be blamed on the left, are to blame.
 

Lime

Member
lol wishing for a Trump in Europe, smh

some shitty people in this thread

Par for the course in EU threads dealing with "immigrants and refugees" (which are never the white ones). So much nationalism and racism thrown around as if their countries will die if they let any more middle eastern people in (but Canadian and US and Australian are totally fine though!)

Some of the richest countries in the world with hundreds of years of law and culture and they can't even handle being exposed to something Iraq and Afghanistan have endured a million times more without "wishing for trump in Europe"
 

Jb

Member
Right wing parties like to look the other way because fixing immigration requires money, but they will so happily stoke the flames with casual racism and dog whistles as substitute for actual policy.

Left wing parties like to look the other way because "racism" and their own colossal ineptitude.

Framing it as a right or left issue is silly if not outright dishonest.

This has been so frustrating to see in the last few months.
The Right immediately proclaims the latest attack proves the need for more anti-immigration and/or semi-racist policies and (some of) the Left tries to minimize or ignore the significance of the attack. Both are equally nauseating because both spend so little time actually grieving the victims and instead immediately calculate how this is going to either validate or contradict their political standing.
The lack of empathy, including on Gaf, is pretty upsetting.
 

Condom

Member
So when is it OK to acknowledge that Europe has a Islamist problem?

ISIS threatened to smuggle its fighters into Europe amongst Syrian refugees and Mrs Merkel invited a million in, WITHOUT pre-checks into a union of 28 countries with open borders.

It looks like anyone raising any concerns is seen as racist around here even though a worrying trend is now establishing itself.
We already acknowledge that. Stop copying far right propaganda that acts like governments do nothing.
 
If we had right wing governments 20 years ago who had actually stopped immigration, none of the current attack waves would ever have happened. The left are to blame for the current mess.

Which country are you from? Because in France the immigration was started by the right wing.

Par for the course in EU threads dealing with "immigrants and refugees" (which are never the white ones). So much nationalism and racism thrown around as if their countries will die if they let any more middle eastern people in (but Canadian and US and Australian are totally fine though!)

I'm sure there's way more middle eastern people in France then in Canada or Australia though. Both immigrant and refugees.
 

Chuckie

Member
Another joke post?

Merkel is a leftist now? Have people lost their minds?

It seems to some people everything that isn't really right is considered 'left'.
All decisions in the Netherlands that have started the immigration in the early 70-ies was under Center-Right governments.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Nothing confirmed one way or another. The latest official statement at 12:12 CET didn't mention any motive or details on the attacker. Only that they were "neutralized" when they left the church.

OK. Best thing to do maybe is just leave this thread for now any maybe return when some clearity is around that situation.

I dont even know why I entered this thread to begin with. There is not a single thread here in this board where something constructive came out while situations like this where still going on and nothing definitiv was reported.
 
Edit: the far right has seen a resurgence in Europe because the left refused to acknowledge the crisis of integration under the guise of being politically correct. Hiding the nationality of crime perps does not make a crime go away, nor does it build trust when the public eventually finds out. The refugee bubble was always going to be short lived in countries with strong social services.

And 'the right', or rather, the economic liberals, cried salty tears, did they? Half the issue here is 'left' and 'right' are far too clunky on issues like this.

As for political correctness and hiding stats and things - where those do damage, point it out. But one should also point out that this does not excuse people reaching for draconian, overblown and hateful responses.

It seems to me there's far too many people going 'we do nothing! I am not allowed to say what I want!!!! Wake up!!!' whilst ignoring anti-terrorism action, bombing of Isis, and the nuance of the situation that demands more than 'I think radicals are bad, look how bad they are, can't you see how bad they are, oh and fuck you lefties'. Responding with anything short of 'put up the walls' is seen by some people as some kind of weakness.
 
Instituting a policy of 'disposable' cheap labour to suit short term needs and ignoring the fact that people would stay is such a leftist issue /s

Both left and right are responsible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom