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[Deleted member 752119]

I'm not saying there aren't similarities - third-party line up being the major one - but the differences far outweigh the similarities, especially if you've used both of them. Once you throw in other hardware-level features (built-in wifi and user-replaceable hard drives on the PS3) and online services (paid Live and free PSN, with Live having more features), the differences become clearer still.

I think the point is that they're very similar to the average Joe Six Pack gamer who's mostly playing the big games like CoD, Madden, Fifa etc. There's little reason for anyone other than hardcore gamers to own both. Owning one and a Nintendo console offers a lot more variety if one likes both types of games.

That said, I think the big differentiator last gen for even the more casuals--at least in the US market--was shooters. With Halo and Gears, MS had a huge edge there as those games had cachet closer to CoD/Battlefield levels than any of the Sony exclusive shooters.

 

[Tsubaru]

People forget that Nintendo once decided to enter the race for power, with the GameCube. That purple box was more powerfull then the PS2, and that didnt made that much difference in the long run.

Nintendo has a different philosophy, they have a strong identity with their products, trying to change that might be the end.

Sega was always pushing the bar on the technology level, with online, CDs, peripherals and etc, and that bankrupt the company.

Yes, they need more power, a better online strategy and etc, but for their games, not bring Call of Duty, or blood and violence to the system, but expand the experience.

But lets face it, Nintendo and Sega never were as big as Sony and M$. Nintendo is a survivor, and they are very good at it.
They know what they are doing, in not hanging the hat, where they cannot reach.

Sorry for my english.

 

[bachikarn]

I think they need to stop designing it for the Japanese market. One of the main features of the Wii U was remote play and very few people care about it in the West. They also strive to keep it small and energy efficient, which makes it unneedingly expensive. Backward compatibility is hurting them too.

Designing for the Japanese market is a poor idea because its starting to alienating the bigger Western market and the Japanese console market is dying.

 

[AngryNapkin]

People still claiming Nintendo hardware is unique? Yeah, the Wii U is a little different compared to the other two, but for the most part it's basically the same kind of device. It's main differentiator is that it's weak and that it lacks games. But that doesn't mean Nintendo is differentiating. It means they suck.

This isn't the 90's anymore where everyone was making totally custom and wacky stuff in-house. All these consoles are running AMD graphics, store games on large capacity discs, and use the same exact controllers. This isn't the HD twins plus Nintendo. It's the HD triplets with one of them lagging behind.

I'm definitely not saying they are unique, the Wii might have been unique for the first year or two but when I say unique I'm talking about a portable home hybrid setup which would be unique imo. It's the only thing I think they can do to break into the mold again similar to the Wii.

But again it wouldn't fix any of the underlying problems. It would be sold as a feature/gimmick like the Wii was. It's possible if they have the right launch games it could see critical success at first but would still be a Nintendo platform for Nintendo games.

 

[TI82]

One thing they need to do is get their controller situation under control. The way it is on the Wii U is needlessly complex fir something that is supposed to be a simple game machine.

And stop relying on gimmicks. I think its fairly clear the remote play and 3D failed to capture the needs of the consumers and developers.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

One thing they need to do is get their controller situation under control. The way it is on the Wii U is needlessly complex fir something that is supposed to be a simple game machine.

All Wii U games can be played with the Gamepad, nothing "complex" about that. Some games you can play with other controllers (Wiimote, Pro Controller, etc.) too.

One thing they need to do is get their controller situation under control. The way it is on the Wii U is needlessly complex fir something that is supposed to be a simple game machine.

In the New 3DS threads many people claimed that the most outstanding feature of the New 3DS it is better 3D.

The Gamepad offers new interesting concepts and at least it is very convenient in many games. The Gamepad is not such a step forward as the Wiimote, that offered new and better ways to play for many genres on consoles (like Shooter, Adventure, etc.) but I don't want to miss it in Nintendos next system. Hopefully the Next Handheld will can be used as a Gamepad for the next console.

 

[Diffense]

All Wii U games can be played with the Gamepad, nothing "complex" about that. Some games you can play with other controllers (Wiimote, Pro Controller, etc.) too.



In the New 3DS threads many people claimed that the most outstanding feature of the New 3DS it is better 3D.

The Gamepad offers new interesting concepts and at least it is very convenient in many games. The Gamepad is not such a step forward as the Wiimote, that offered new and better ways to play for many genres on consoles (like Shooter, Adventure, etc.) but I don't want to miss it in Nintendos next system. Hopefully the Next Handheld will can be used as a Gamepad for the next console.

Yeah, the gamepad is not groundbreaking and it's probably too expensive for what it does in most games but it's kind of spoiled me with its conveniences.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Hopefully the Next Handheld will can be used as a Gamepad for the next console.

That should definitely happen. And it needs wifi remote play from anywhere with a good connection like Vita--while having all the buttons of the console controller.

I don't care at all about off TV play at home as I have a mancave with a 55" TV to myself to game on. But remote play in other places is nice at times.

 

[Verendus]

Nintendo doesn't need this industry, but this industry needs Nintendo.

 

[Lothars]

Nintendo doesn't need this industry, but this industry needs Nintendo.

Disagree, Nintendo needs the industry just as much as the industry needs Nintendo.

 

[Unknown One]

Nintendo needs the industry more than the industry needs Nintendo.

 

[Enosh]

People forget that Nintendo once decided to enter the race for power, with the GameCube. That purple box was more powerfull then the PS2, and that didnt made that much difference in the long run.

I don't think the GC is an accurate representation of how the hardcore and third party would adopt a nintendo console with high end specs because
a) they made it a fucking purple box
b) no DVD in a time when that kinda mattered

 

[Deleted member 752119]

It launched in black as well. I got one day one.

But, yeah, no DVD was a killer. I was in college at the time and so many people had PS2's they mostly used as DVD players.

 

[TI82]

All Wii U games can be played with the Gamepad, nothing "complex" about that. Some games you can play with other controllers (Wiimote, Pro Controller, etc.) too.

New Super Mario Bros U?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yes it was, but like I mentioned earlier in the thread they still had/have a 85 million base.

In Nintendos case they are now down to less than 15 million and with the exception of the Wii they have never grown their base.

How low can they go really and still remain profitable/viable? They can't do what most everyone in this thread is suggesting.

Online won't happen, third parties won't happen, powerful x86 hardware won't happen because they lose backwards compatibility, etc.

Their only course of action is to create something truly unique and with a mobile console being rumored they still don't address any of the main concerns and will be relying on the gimmick factor.

Sony knows how to sell home consoles. Nintendo doesn't. They have a long history of very disappointing sales.

 

[test_account]

People forget that Nintendo once decided to enter the race for power, with the GameCube. That purple box was more powerfull then the PS2, and that didnt made that much difference in the long run.

All of Nintendo's consoles were pretty competitive regarding hardware power until the Wii though.

 

[Log4Girlz]

All of Nintendo's consoles were pretty competitive regarding hardware power until the Wii though.

I wish people who would use the Gamecube argument would be banished forever to some ether. Constantly ignoring marketing. You can't say that a car company tried to compete with power in a Prius and failed, as its not in a market for powerful cars. It was a purple lunch box.

In reality the last time Nintendo tried to actually compete with power was the N64. It was touting its power left and right, vs. the Gamecube where they refused to give out marketing numbers for its specs and explained how that wasn't necessary. And the N64 did fine. Would have done way, way, way, holy shit better with CD's. Like Playstation would have been another Genesis better.

Nintendo needs to make a decision. Go after the casual/family market which has not been a proven market (they did have a sole success with Wii), or the proven, reliable young male market. Either is a risk, this is a risky business. Sony was able to deliver a leading console on the cheap. It wouldn't cost Nintendo much to borrow that strategy and offer a leading console in terms of power, market it as mature, and watch people buy Nintendo games in droves anyway like they did with the N64. If they go casual, they run the risk of falling on their face again if it is indeed true that the Wii was lightning in a bottle.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Accept their place as a niche entertainment company for a niche audience and run with it. Trying to fool themselves into thinking they're still king of the hill will do no good; leveraging their rabid fanbase to remain a small but healthy business will keep them running fine for the foreseeable future.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Heh. I'm surprised at the weird console/gimick nay-sayers. That seems like their best way forward to me. If they want the hardcore market, they'd have to make something that was clearly more powerful than competitors products, but sell it at the same price point as their competitors. i.e. bleed lots of money.

The alternative is to make strange/interesting/quirky consoles and hope they nail something cool enough that either non-gamers buy in or that gamers themselves buy in. TBH, that's more interesting to their core constituency as well, and is more likely to play well with families too (i.e. the people who are now thinking "My kid has an iPad and an iPhone. Why does he need a console?"

Right now they've been doing a much better job courting/promoting/funding indie dev titles to help pad out their lack of third party stuff. I like that as well. "No third parties, we'll just make our own". Its basically what Apple has done as well.

I'm surprised it's a surprise, given the utter failure of the Wii U's central gimmick.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Not sure if it's been said ITT, but Nintendo hasn't yet lost this gen. It's not over yet. With a proper marketing push and a Wii Sports Resort 2 (now in HD!) they could probably once again trounce everyone. The good games on Wii are not what sold the Wii.

This can't be a serious post.

 

[dead souls]

This can't be a serious post.

Come on, they've got Sony and Microsoft right where they want them. Classic rope-a-dope.

I assume when all is said and done Wii U will be the victor of this generation just barely defeating Dreamcast 2.

 

[Tidus_Great]

have a console of similar power to their rivals. or make it cost significantly less.

wii u was underpowered and too expensive for what you got.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

There are lots of people on the net that think Nintendo can do no wrong and that they still have a seat at the home console round table.

Well, to be fair, they do have a seat at the table. Unfortunately for them, it's the kiddie table in the kitchen, away from where the big meal is taking place.

 

[Verendus]

Disagree, Nintendo needs the industry just as much as the industry needs Nintendo.

I believe in Nintendo.

 

[Sephzilla]

People forget that Nintendo once decided to enter the race for power, with the GameCube. That purple box was more powerfull then the PS2, and that didnt made that much difference in the long run.

Nintendo has a different philosophy, they have a strong identity with their products, trying to change that might be the end.

Sega was always pushing the bar on the technology level, with online, CDs, peripherals and etc, and that bankrupt the company.

Yes, they need more power, a better online strategy and etc, but for their games, not bring Call of Duty, or blood and violence to the system, but expand the experience.

But lets face it, Nintendo and Sega never were as big as Sony and M$. Nintendo is a survivor, and they are very good at it.
They know what they are doing, in not hanging the hat, where they cannot reach.

Sorry for my english.

I'm sorry but I think the whole "GameCube got crushed by the PS2" argument needs to be retired, honestly. It's become a fallback excuse to justify Nintendo's timid bunny hop into the 21st century while their competition is well ahead of them technologically.

 

[AniHawk]

How many people bought Wii Mario kart ?

How many people bought WiiU Mario Kart 8 ?

Take one from the other, that is your answer of how many people would maybe buy MK8 if it was say just 50 bucks - its not important enough to them to buy a console, or they would of done.

i understand what you're trying to get at, but that's not proof there are enough people. it's proof there are enough people when the audience is the kind nintendo has built up around supporting their console in a big way.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Nintendo needs an amusement/ theme park

 

[TheDarkTriforce]

Nintendo doesn't need this industry, but this industry needs Nintendo.

This

 

[TheDarkTriforce]

Sony knows how to sell home consoles. Nintendo doesn't. They have a long history of very disappointing sales.

Sony knows nothing in my opinion, they have just the luck that the PlayStation brand is at the moment in! The only reason why Sony sold more consoles in my opinion is that the PlayStation brand is now in, it's just like with Apple, everyone buys Apple products now because they are in, and it's the same with the PlayStation brand!

Edit:

 

[geordiemp]

i understand what you're trying to get at, but that's not proof there are enough people. it's proof there are enough people when the audience is the kind nintendo has built up around supporting their console in a big way.

In my opinion, Its how many people who bought wii Mario kart who bought a Wii primarily for Wii Sports and the mystery that was motion controls.

 

[TheDarkTriforce]

It's simple.

They can become number 1 by becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony Computer Entertainment.

That will guarantee 1st place again

Just No!

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Anyone advocating for persisting the current gimmicky/underpowered model are terribly delusional and will only keep Nintendo's path of irrelevance. Wii's unability to compete hardware-wise against PS3/360 were among the reasons for why it's sales declined in the long-term and the console died earlier. Wii U's persistance on that model digged the hole even further and the results are right there. Sure, Wii's gimmicky approach was a great idea, but was short-term, especially because how Nintendo managed it, with casuals in mind, and because the hardware couldn't provide the power necessary for third-parties's efforts. People are believing Microsoft and Sony are unstoppable/invincible juggernauts and can't be stopped, they aren't. Nintendo not only can as they should compete head on against them. By the way, the PS3/360 money bleeding argument from both Sony and Microsoft in the last generation are no longer up to date, especially because Sony already said they're making profits with the PS4.

What Nintendo should do to compete:

- Drop their casual and family appeal built with the Wii and restore their core approach from NES/SNES/N64 days;
- Re-invest into modern hardware and technology;
- Build a modern online architecture and network;
- Rebuild their western development division and restore Nintendo of America's and Nintendo of Europe's authonomy of decision;
- Fully embrace third-party support from all around the world;
- Publish or buy exclusive third-party Teen or Mature games. (a known SNES/N64 strategy);
- Drop many of their unfriendly royalties, licence fees and manufacturing control policies existing since the NES days;
- Support versions of big multiplatform titles, exclusive titles and estimulate their audience to buy non-Nintendo titles (major problem here);
- Stop milking and become dependable of selected franchises and genres; (Mario, I'm looking at you)
- Counter the "kiddy" and "uncool" image on their marketing.
- Better management of development schedules (delays and droughts...) and expansion of their internal studios;
- Set Nintendo's major IP's as console primary and release them first on it and later on portables;
- Expand their major sources of income with new big, ambitious projects;
- Yes, a gimmick with Wiimote-like level ambition/success can be nice, as long the console doesn't become restricted to it's usage and doesn't limitate it's appeal and audience;
- Restore Nintendo Space World. Many memorable Nintendo moments happened there;
- More active presence on big gaming fairs, like E3. Participate into the Press Conference like they did.

 

[Asuna]

I would reframe the question slightly.

Rather than focusing on pure market share, I would say Nintendo needs to focus on growing market share *profitably*. The days they could play the volume game are long gone sadly.

One of the best models to drive profitable growth these days is the subscription model.

So I'd place my bets on a cloud-based subscription-based service of some sort. For a monthly fee, you get access to Nintendo's entire catalogue of games, past and future. Nintendo could still release a 'thin client' type of console to act as the host, with enough processing power to take some load off the cloud servers, especially important when not everywhere has great broadband speed.

Nintendo could also offer the likes of EA access to their platform for their services too, e.g. EA Access, whatever Activision come up with, etc. via a revenue share.

This will probably never happen, and they'll probably surprise everyone with a VR headset because they're like that, but I can't shake the feeling that a streaming subscription model is the way the industry is headed, and because Nintendo are a half-step out of sync with Sony and MS in terms of their hardware release cycle, they could get there first.

 

[JNA]

Pretty much similar to what you said OP.

Actually try to compete and get powerful hardware on your next console. Otherwise their home console will never sell. They don't need to be three times more powerful than PS4, but matching or at least upping them on that end a bit would help a lot.

The Wii was a fluke that will never happen again to them. Gimmicks won't work as well this time so stop the stubbornness and get third parties on board this time.

 

[evilromero]

A Metroid game that blows my ever-loving mind out of the water and is just too awe-inspiring for anyone to turn away from. In other words, keep Sakamoto far far away.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Whatever they do please please just keep the Pro Controller shape the standard for the future, maybe turn the triggers analog if they care to.

 

[King Gilga]

If it's a core no gimmick machine it'll be just as dead as the Wii U.

They need another super popular phenomenon like the Wii motion controls /w wii sports.

They should just stick to handhelds, but I guess that is dying too thanks to smart phones.

 

[RMI]

Nintendo is a company that tries to innovate, so whatever they do you can bet it will be just a gimmick.

The sensible thing for them to have done with the Wii U would have been to release a console that gave them parity with the PS4 and XB1 in terms of power and third party support, while keeping the cost as low as possible by eliminating non-essential contrivances and accessories, the most egregious example of which this generation is the Kinect 2.0, the second most horrible unnecessary thing is their own gamepad. They should have just released a more powerful box with the Wii U pro controller this time and fought on exclusives like everyone else is doing.

Some people might argue that this is a good idea for them next time, but the console landscape will be wildly different by the time the next batch of machines comes out, so expect them to do something dumb instead.

 

[Manmademan]

Sony knows nothing in my opinion, they have just the luck that the PlayStation brand is at the moment in! The only reason why Sony sold more consoles in my opinion is that the PlayStation brand is now in, it's just like with Apple, everyone buys Apple products now because they are in, and it's the same with the PlayStation brand!

Edit:

Oh wow. This is what Nintendo fans ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

Nintendo's best selling console didn't manage to outsell Sony's SECOND best selling console...assuming the ps4 doesn't pass the ps1, which it probably will meaning that the Wii sales phenomenon will clock in behind not one not two but three Sony consoles...and is only marginally ahead of the fourth.

Sony's worst selling console (the ps3) moved 400% more units than the GameCube did, at over double the average cost.

Sony may not always make the best decisions, but they clearly know how to market a console.

 

[Rocky]

Sony knows nothing in my opinion, they have just the luck that the PlayStation brand is at the moment in! The only reason why Sony sold more consoles in my opinion is that the PlayStation brand is now in, it's just like with Apple, everyone buys Apple products now because they are in, and it's the same with the PlayStation brand!

Edit:

You realize of course, Sony has sold more "Playstation" consoles in 3 gens than Nintendo has sold in 5? And that includes the Wii. And with the current gen, the gap is only widening. So I guess that means the Playstation brand has been in since the first one.

 

[Goodlife]

Sony may not always make the best decisions, but they clearly know how to market a console.

Five hundred and ninety nine dollars

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

You realize of course, Sony has sold more "Playstation" consoles in 3 gens than Nintendo has sold in 5? And that includes the Wii. And with the current gen, the gap is only widening. So I guess that means the Playstation brand has been in since the first one.

Keep in the mind the NES 60+ million user base created an actual market at the time. I might say the same for much of the Wii's user base.

Comparing numbers alone in this case, isn't black and white. Although Nintendo does seem to perpetually lose its own user base to competitors every generation because of their inability to stay consistent.

 

[JNA]

Sony knows nothing in my opinion, they have just the luck that the PlayStation brand is at the moment in! The only reason why Sony sold more consoles in my opinion is that the PlayStation brand is now in, it's just like with Apple, everyone buys Apple products now because they are in, and it's the same with the PlayStation brand!

Edit:

 

[minkymuskyslyoldstoaty]

All Wii U games can be played with the Gamepad, nothing "complex" about that. Some games you can play with other controllers (Wiimote, Pro Controller, etc.) too.
.

Unless I misunderstood you, this is not true. For example Pikmin and Mario and Sonic at the Sochi Olympics require other controllers and cannot be played only on the Gamepad.

I love the games that can be played without the TV, and most games can indeed be played solely on the Gamepad. But not all.

 

[Quasar]

Something more in line with One/4 might manage Gamecube numbers but I don't see it as clear cut as some say. Certainly I don't think if their system did everything the PS4 did they would suddenly sell systems.

I don't know, if there was comparable third party support I would have at least considered buying it instead of one of the others. A console that has most of the third party games, plus Nintendos own titles would have been a real winner for me. Of course maybe there aren't many people like me and they don't care even that much about Nintendo.

 

[DizzyCrow]

Something like the Intel NUC, but cheap.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Unless I misunderstood you, this is not true. For example Pikmin and Mario and Sonic at the Sochi Olympics require other controllers and cannot be played only on the Gamepad.

I love the games that can be played without the TV, and most games can indeed be played solely on the Gamepad. But not all.

This is completely, 100% false.

 

[minkymuskyslyoldstoaty]

Obviously I'm missing something then, or the language barrier of my Japanese games is too much. Are you saying I don't need the Wii U remote to play Pikmin?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Obviously I'm missing something then, or the language barrier of my Japanese games is too much. Are you saying I don't need the Wii U remote to play Pikmin?

You do not need a Wii remote to play Pikmin 3. It's the best way to play the game, but it's not required. The game can be played entirely with the gamepad.

To be fair to you, there are a handful of events in Mario and Sonic that require a Wii remote but the gamepad can be used for most of the game.

 

[minkymuskyslyoldstoaty]

I learn something every day. Looking forward to trying Pikmin out with just the pad.