ChronotriggerJM
Member
Did the wii only sell 101 million?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
How can Nintendo win back marketshare with their next home console?
- Thread starter CurseoftheGods
- Start date
AngryNapkin
Banned
By most reasonable estimates its something close to that yes.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Wow, for some reason I thought it was much higher levels lol. That Mario Kart attach ratio!
I see a base dropoff for both Sony and likely Microsoft in the future. You can't call 1 number an outlier and excuse another number. Sales don't work like that.
Nintendo made far more money on the Wii and DS than Sony did with, well... everything else. The PS3 represents the worst thing Sony's gaming division has ever done financially. The numbers speak for themselves.
Playing a game of "woulda coulda shoulda" is non-productive. It was what it was, and it is what it is.
AngryNapkin
Banned
Yea I know, that's going back to the conversation we were having earlier in the thread. Nintendo IP is golden and would sell very well on PS4/One of there was no home Nintendo console imo.
I'd buy every Nintendo game and every Sony exclusive with the occasional GAF certified third party game and be good to go.
Like another poster said though Nintendo would padlock the doors at Nintendo HQ before they paid royalties to either company.
AngryNapkin
Banned
It's not the future yet
and that's not really getting to my point. My point is that regardless of the Wii they won't see sales like that ever again and it was outside of Nintendo norms.They lose market share, that's what Nintendo does historically and the Wii U is continuing that trend. Nintendo can't keep making money if their base keeps dropping. They won't have any customers left to sale too.
Hopefully that clarifies my point, the PS3 might have cost Sony a lot but with their base being 85 million they have a source of revenue and eventually it became profitable. Sure they dropped 75 million from PS2 levels but they still had 85 million sold and the reason for that drop off was likely because of the hardware used and cost not necessarily a drop off because people just didn't like the brand anymore (like Nintendo).
ChronotriggerJM
Member
They're not gimmicks if they work well. I don't think the Wii U tablet controller was a gimmick, I just think it was a horrible idea. And while "waggling" is a gimmick, proper motion control is not.
Nintendo's got the brilliance to come up with something unique, but it has to actually be good. Off screen gameplay and 2 screens for a handheld are not the ideas I think they need.
Honestly, after e3, it feels like they did just that as far as PR has been concerned. Nintendo has made some REALLY smart decisions regarding how they've been branding themselves as of late; really interesting stuff that either no one else is doing, or are doing it so well that they're outclassing the competition.
But yeah, I think most people have said it already:
-Unify WiiWare/DSWare
-Make Virtual Console consolidated across all platforms
-Make an online infrastructure that is safe, easy to use and that won't be gimped because you forgot about what people are like on the internet
-Keep trying to get those indie devs on your platform
-Don't make a gimmick controller if you aren't going to use what's inside it (0 games use the WiiU tablet's camera).
-Keep the flow of excellent first person games coming
-Try to play nice with 3rd party developers so they'll actually want to develop for your platform rather than ignoring it
-Investigate hardware parity. It'll be ugly, but you have to go something for 3rd party developers to grab onto.
perhaps. if the wii u was $200 and had third-party support from the start, maybe it could have outsold the ps4. what i'm saying is that it sounds like a nintendo platform will always do worse than its predecessor, or at least should, which that ignores reality. this isn't magic. it's a combination of right or wrong moves. the wii u doesn't get to sub-gc levels after the wii due to it being 'back to normal'. it's a series of bad moves one after another when the wii was a series of right moves one after another.
saying the same of sony being 'back to normal' after the ps3 is a disservice to all they did right to bring the ps4 to where it is. it's a series of right moves.
i agree that timing was pretty good. they probably could have released the same stuff around the time of the gc/gba and done really well too. the wii and ds might have been a little late and had the potential to do even better. having the right gimmicks is one thing, but it needs to be backed up by the right software too, which nintendo had, to best demonstrate those gimmicks to a wider audience.
the further inclusion of the ds in this conversation is rather silly. if you were to look at hardware shipments for their handheld line, you would see it rising with the gb, falling in the mid-90s, picking up again in the late 90s with the gbc and pokemon, blowing up with the gba (beyond gbc levels), and truly exploding with ds sales. if we were to follow this logic you're employing, the 3ds is actually abnormal because it doesn't follow the trend of increasingly successful nintendo handhelds after the gb's initial decline in the mid-90s.
it's a pretty good idea to diversify in general. they have a hardware division and they mostly put it to use making video game systems and revisions of said systems. the potential there is greater for more.
also the writing is on the wall for pretty much everyone. microsoft's initial push with the xbox one, sony's push towards a paywall subscription service and playstation now, plus all the third parties setting up their own store fronts and 'platforms' digitally is a sign that the times are changing. it's not isolated.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
So what? No one wanted Kinect just like no one wants the gamepad. Who cares if very few games use it? Very few games use it in any meaningful way anyway.
Copy the ps4.
No, seriously. If you look at the ps4, it has accomplished a lot of things that would absolutely help Nintendo.
1. Games games games - I have an Xbox One and I love it but let's get real, the ps4 is known as the console that has games. Don't give me any of the "But it's indie" bs. The truth and the narrative is that the ps4 has the most games.
2. Power - As much as I want design and art to matter more than graphics...it doesn't. It doesn't when it comes to perception. Although the difference is minor, the ps4 is more powerful than the Xbox One and people know that. People want the best and when it comes to graphics, that's the ps4.
3. Demographics - There are two things here. The ps4 is a global console. It is selling on average pretty well all over the world. On the other hand, the Xbox One is only selling well in the US. Also, the ps4 is catering to the 18 - 35 demographic....a huge demographic.
With those thing in mind, in my opinion, Nintendo needs to:
1. Utilize the virtual console about 1000% more than they are. I understand there are certain complications when it comes to porting games to the vc but if Nintendo could launch their next home console with a very robust vc library it would be huge. They also need to drop the arrogance and work with third parties. Of course, I think that would improve with point 2.
2. They need to release a powerful console. Once again, I prefer art direction over graphics but you can have great art direction with great graphics. If Nintendo wants to throw in a gimmick sure whatever that's fine but couple it with a powerful console.
3. Stop putting so much emphasis on Japan and the US. Shoot for more worldwide support. Stop marketing the console to families, instead market games to families. Microsoft and Sony do this well. They market specific games to specific niches. On the other hand, Nintendo markets their entire console to families.
In my opinion, if Nintendo launched a console as powerful as the Xbox One/PS4 (or their next consoles), with competitive third party support, a very robust virtual console, and a unique Nintendo gimmick that isn't required for game play, and catered to the 18 - 35 gamer demographic while marketing specific games to families, they would sell gangbusters and start building back some mind and market share.
No, seriously. If you look at the ps4, it has accomplished a lot of things that would absolutely help Nintendo.
1. Games games games - I have an Xbox One and I love it but let's get real, the ps4 is known as the console that has games. Don't give me any of the "But it's indie" bs. The truth and the narrative is that the ps4 has the most games.
2. Power - As much as I want design and art to matter more than graphics...it doesn't. It doesn't when it comes to perception. Although the difference is minor, the ps4 is more powerful than the Xbox One and people know that. People want the best and when it comes to graphics, that's the ps4.
3. Demographics - There are two things here. The ps4 is a global console. It is selling on average pretty well all over the world. On the other hand, the Xbox One is only selling well in the US. Also, the ps4 is catering to the 18 - 35 demographic....a huge demographic.
With those thing in mind, in my opinion, Nintendo needs to:
1. Utilize the virtual console about 1000% more than they are. I understand there are certain complications when it comes to porting games to the vc but if Nintendo could launch their next home console with a very robust vc library it would be huge. They also need to drop the arrogance and work with third parties. Of course, I think that would improve with point 2.
2. They need to release a powerful console. Once again, I prefer art direction over graphics but you can have great art direction with great graphics. If Nintendo wants to throw in a gimmick sure whatever that's fine but couple it with a powerful console.
3. Stop putting so much emphasis on Japan and the US. Shoot for more worldwide support. Stop marketing the console to families, instead market games to families. Microsoft and Sony do this well. They market specific games to specific niches. On the other hand, Nintendo markets their entire console to families.
In my opinion, if Nintendo launched a console as powerful as the Xbox One/PS4 (or their next consoles), with competitive third party support, a very robust virtual console, and a unique Nintendo gimmick that isn't required for game play, and catered to the 18 - 35 gamer demographic while marketing specific games to families, they would sell gangbusters and start building back some mind and market share.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
If Nintendo want's to keep going with providing their own hardware, I think they need to push even harder on the gimmicks, and maybe blow minds. Sony and Microsoft have the market on lockdown regarding the "typical" console experience, they've built up the recognition, and I don't see Nintendo tapping into that ever again.
They should triple down on the "gimmicks", and headhunt indie developers like no companies ever done before. You want to push what a "gimmick" can do? Open it up to indies. Nintendo should become the exclusive / indie juggernaut.
Hell, if Nintendo want's to play the 3rd party game, they should make the royalties next to nothing, just attract anything and everything to the platform to expand an audience for their own software.
They should triple down on the "gimmicks", and headhunt indie developers like no companies ever done before. You want to push what a "gimmick" can do? Open it up to indies. Nintendo should become the exclusive / indie juggernaut.
Hell, if Nintendo want's to play the 3rd party game, they should make the royalties next to nothing, just attract anything and everything to the platform to expand an audience for their own software.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The more gimmicks you have the more they cripple their first party devs and the quality of their games, which is their only selling point.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Nah, first party dev's are in the prime position of creating whatever they want. I'm not saying they should abandon conventional play altogether, but get really creative, let the first party make whatever they can think of. Gimmicks are harder on 3rd party, which Nintendo doesn't seem to worried about.
Well, we can at least agree the the decline momentarily stops with the Wii U.
I mean, there's no way the next console could possibly sell worse.
...right?
right?
Interesting point.
Does the GBA really work there since it did it's numbers in a short period of time. Not sure that's a decline like that poster said.
I mean, there's no way the next console could possibly sell worse.
...right?
right?
Interesting point.
Does the GBA really work there since it did it's numbers in a short period of time. Not sure that's a decline like that poster said.
I see them bridging their handheld and home consoles like rumors have indicated. This would help them considering that the next product in their handheld line might not be able to put up a fight like the 3DS has with the mobile gaming industry. If Nintendo really focused on blurring the lines between mobile and console gameplay, it could be really popular.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I imagine if Nintendo made the Wii part 2, and went back to motion controls, called it something else entirely, made the platform the easiest thing in the world to program on, and collected 0 royalties from third party, and created the console equivalent of the PC dev community priced at $200. The thing would sell absolute gangbusters, and 3rd party would want to push software to it because why not? Yeah you wouldn't get the bigger games, but probably all the PSN stuff, all the indies, and anything not looking to push hardware to the max (all the small studios and below).
Nintendo really just needs a massive audience to sell their games to. I personally think they would do incredibly well going third party, but if that's not an option, then just gun for exposure.
Nintendo really just needs a massive audience to sell their games to. I personally think they would do incredibly well going third party, but if that's not an option, then just gun for exposure.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think they really can, at least not in terms of getting anywhere near Sony/MS sales totals.
I also don't think they need to. They have huge attach rates for their top games. So they just need to do much better than the Wii U. They can make a lot of money if they can sell their console to 20-30 million people, and the portable to 40-50+ million since Mario Kart, Smash, Pokemon, Mario etc. sell gangbusters, and stuff like Zelda sells pretty well (2-3 million at least lately).
In short, they just need to satisfy their niche and milk it for all they can. Have unified architecture to allow easy ports and cross buy. That way people who own either can get a version of every game, and it may encourage more to buy both for the play the game anywhere angle. Milk things like Amiibos that their diehards eat up. Do more good DLC like MK8 to make more money off of big games. Sell the hardware at a profit day 1--with portable under $200 (199.99 tops) and console under $250.
I also don't think they need to. They have huge attach rates for their top games. So they just need to do much better than the Wii U. They can make a lot of money if they can sell their console to 20-30 million people, and the portable to 40-50+ million since Mario Kart, Smash, Pokemon, Mario etc. sell gangbusters, and stuff like Zelda sells pretty well (2-3 million at least lately).
In short, they just need to satisfy their niche and milk it for all they can. Have unified architecture to allow easy ports and cross buy. That way people who own either can get a version of every game, and it may encourage more to buy both for the play the game anywhere angle. Milk things like Amiibos that their diehards eat up. Do more good DLC like MK8 to make more money off of big games. Sell the hardware at a profit day 1--with portable under $200 (199.99 tops) and console under $250.
Zero royalties? That's basically the whole point of the console business.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Not for Nintendo. 3rd parties hated the Wii for whatever reason. Of all the profit Nintendo had with the Wii, what do you think the realistic percentage would be from 3rd party software? Nintendo made a killing off their own software, and it was only because they had such a large audience to broadcast to.
Nintendo's output on the Wii U is arguably the best it's ever been, and no one is there to buy it. I bet Nintendo would give up profits in royalties to have another 30 million Mario Kart.
Pay and support all the popular game engines like Unreal Engine 4, Frostbite, and of course Unity which is already supported for Nintendo consoles
Look at the crowdfunding community and support the Metroidvanias, Shovel Knights, etc. Support the enthusiast crowd first and foremost, get that good word of mouth spreading
And it'd be nice if the console was less than $300.
Look at the crowdfunding community and support the Metroidvanias, Shovel Knights, etc. Support the enthusiast crowd first and foremost, get that good word of mouth spreading
And it'd be nice if the console was less than $300.
Yes for Nintendo. There were tons of shovelware crap on the Wii that Nintendo earned handsome money on.
Of the 900 million units of software sold on Wii, some gaffer calculated approximately 300-350 million units of it was Nintendo's 1st party software a while ago from their financial reports, iirc.
That's a lot of missing royalties you're proposing on a theoretically successful console.
This right here is the dream. This is the holy grail that has driven so many Nintendo arguments over the years: A single platform that has all the games, including Nintendo's first party games, and everything else core gamers want. This is what people have wanted since the end of the SNES era, whether that means Nintendo turning into Sony or Microsoft, or Nintendo going third party.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Absolutely, but at this point, I'm really worried about Nintendo's ability to get that kind of momentum again. I don't know how accurate this list is, (wikipedia), but look at the top sellers here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
I mean seriously.
I'm sorry; why is DS an "outlier" while PS2 is not?
ChronotriggerJM
Member
So a 3 to 1 ratio of software sold. Of the 2/3'ds of that pie, what percentage of profit does Nintendo make out of that? Versus what they netted off 1st party? I mean yeah, obviously they're going to lose profit, but would it be worth it to have that exposure? That's what I'm asking.
Your logic doesn't make any sense. Nintendo doesn't get anything by making a console with zero royalties. It's not going to make developers flock to their console. Publishers make decisions based on prospective sales, not royalty rates. Both MS and Sony charge royalties and it's not scaring anyone away.
Even if hypothetically every third party game came to Nintendo exclusively, if Nintendo isn't getting a cut, then what's the point? It's like selling the razor without the blades. Ok, so they would get a huge install base. So what? The average bro gamer isn't interested in Nintendo stuff so who cares.
SneakyStephan
Banned
No stupid or confusing name
Not overpriced like wii u was at launch
Actually have enough first party games ready at launch, not 2 years after launch
That's about it.
Not overpriced like wii u was at launch
Actually have enough first party games ready at launch, not 2 years after launch
That's about it.
AngryNapkin
Banned
Indeed they are right moves but it just can't be ignored that as a whole they have been doing nothing but the wrong moves historically.
The trends you speak of are completely different than what Nintendo has had to do. What you're talking about is a rise in design costs and publishers trying to break into the mold with a Steam model. That's outside of the scope of what is happening. The third parties aren't even there to do that on a Nintendo platform.
Nintendo has never really seen a need to do things outside of gaming consoles, now they (imo) have no other choice in the matter.
If they fail with QoL and solely rely on Virtual Console/Amibos on their own platforms something is going to give. Like I mentioned earlier all three of those do not have to rely on Nintendo platforms. They can be moved to other consoles if need be.
I think the overall consensus is that even if they make all the right moves at this point it won't matter. Third parties aren't coming back, if they try it'll cost them. If they try for parity on network functions it would also cost them. I don't see any gimmicks left to throw at a market with mass appeal outside of handheld+console gaming which also has the same flaws mentioned and a dwindling base.
AngryNapkin
Banned
If you want to say it's an outlier you can, but there just is not enough hardware trends to say otherwise.
Nintendo has a pattern showing, Sony doesn't atm, they would have to sell less than 85 million this gen and I very much doubt that happens. I think it'll be between the PS1 and PS2 personally. It depends on how fast they can drop the price and release in 3rd tier countries.
Considering the parts used and Cernys goals I'm pretty sure we will see 99.99 before its EOL.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
The idea is that if Nintendo isn't currently making much off 3rd party as is, then why should they care if they move in or not. The point is to have an audience to push amazing software to.
As it stands now, the Wii sold a ton, and they made great money off 3rd party.
The Wii U is selling like crap, and they're not making much off 3rd party.
Ideally they make another Wii, and reap the best of both worlds. But if that's not in the cards, would getting developers on board at the expense of missing out on profit to grow the user base be worth it? Would having a massive pool to push software on without paying royalties to some other company be worth trading 3rd party royalties?
I know it's not some magical fix all obviously, but imagine being the system that every startup want's to be on first. I mean you could own the indie breeding ground so to say.
I dunno, it's all hypothetical nonsense of course lol. But it was an interesting idea in my head, and I've had way too much coffee.
They need more consumer mindshare i think is what i'm trying to say. Kids nowadays aren't really aware of mario, metroid, zelda, or really most of the fist party nintendo ip character. They need to create tv shows, movies, and inbetween tv show shorts for kids to see almost everyday and want. I don't think trying to fight with Sony and Microsoft right off the bat on their next console is the way to go they have too much popularity for that to happen. Go cheap $200, innovate how gamers interact with the game, get a hold of a lot of the niche games like bayonetta 3, onimusha, big jrpg games, and strategy (really should have bought atlas), buy up a couple of western studios, continue with the indie support, and slowly build back up support with the gamers. Release the classics like zelda, mario, star fox, and metroid in the first year in order to get the hardcore to buy the console and then go with the mass appeal games like smash,mario kart, and animal crossing in the second year. Getting back third party is pointless right now its not gonna happen this gen or next thats why building up gamer support of their current console and the next one is the key to getting major third party support back in the future.
edit: i really feel like the people in charge of nintendo are only thinking of the here and now profits instead of investing and preparing for the future. Building up and buying more studios especially western ones when you've lost all major third party support seems like the most logical step when thinking about their next console and the fight to keep it from having droughts.
edit: i really feel like the people in charge of nintendo are only thinking of the here and now profits instead of investing and preparing for the future. Building up and buying more studios especially western ones when you've lost all major third party support seems like the most logical step when thinking about their next console and the fight to keep it from having droughts.
zero shift
Banned
Personally I'm not sure myself how they can get Wii or even Nintendo 64 numbers again. What I do know is the price is a big factor. It is insane that it is difficult to find even a used Wii U for $200 (yes I know about the refurbished deals from time to time). If Nintendo some how had a system that was around $150 or less I know that would help. Of course that isn't all that is required as the Gamecube was $100, but it tough to sell a system that isn't that much cheaper than Sony or Microsoft platforms.
I also feel that combining their console and handheld ecosystems are a great idea. They have so many great titles that are always split up between two platforms. Imagine a system with as many killer apps as the 3DS and Wii U combined.
I also feel that combining their console and handheld ecosystems are a great idea. They have so many great titles that are always split up between two platforms. Imagine a system with as many killer apps as the 3DS and Wii U combined.
AngryNapkin
Banned
If it sold less than PS3 then yea you could call it that, but they can price accordingly and release in more markets at that point. The PS2 didn't get to 155 million wih just Europe, Japan and the U.S.
With the way the unit was designed I think it will get there eventually and with its current sales a year in with no games I think beating PS3 is an easy assumption. Beating PS1 sales I think will happen but I'm not sure on PS2 numbers. That thing was beast mode.
Well, that's a big gap ha.
I feel if they come up with something better, than can get 30-45 on consoles in the forseable future. I don't see them breaking 50 in a while though.
So they'll need their next handheld to try and get about 60 again if possible. To kind of stay alive.
Just remembered I recently wrote a big post on this topic. Might as well repost it here:
That third point is the most important, I think. If they can't get third party support, that downwards trajectory is just going to continue. A first party box simply isn't enough unless they stumble upon something special like they did with the Wii. If successful, you find yourself with the Wiimote, Wii Sports and you win the generation. If you try that and fail, you get the gamepad and Wii U, and sell less than 15 million units when it's all said and done.
They've never really tried [to capture the 18-34 male demo] since the N64 era. The marketing of that console was perfect for the Western audience, from "mature" software to ads themselves. Goldeneye was the game of the generation for the older crowd interested in shooters, only for Nintendo to completely ignore them with the Gamecube and Xbox to swoop in and take them with Halo. Nintendo went as far as to advertise Conker's Bad Fur Day in Playboy. Crazy to think about today.
People forget how well the N64 fared against the Playstation in North America. It sold as many consoles as the SNES. As of March 31, 2001, N64 had sold about 20 million units in North America. At that point, Nintendo stopped supporting the console and started focusing on the Gamecube. Playstation was sitting at 31 million at the time. Keep in mind PS1 was released before N64, and had literally all of the third party support in the world. This resulted in software droughts that the PS1 simply didn't experience. While Nintendo's first party output was strong (Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Goldeneye) it couldn't compete with Sony's first party support (Gran Turismo, Crash Bandicoot) AND third party support (Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil... the list goes on and on and on).
The idea that the PS1 dominated the N64 comes from worldwide sales (it KILLED N64 in Europe and Japan), and it continued to sell WELL into the life of the PS2, while the N64 died completely when the Gamecube released.
What's my point? The N64 sold well in North America on the strength of two things:
1. Compelling software
2. Strong marketing that appealed to ALL demographics
Their biggest problem? Cartridges. Yamauchi said fuck you to the third parties, so they said fuck you back and left Nintendo for Playstation and CDs. Could you imagine if Nintendo went with CDs and had Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and third party support they enjoyed from the SNES on the N64?
With the Gamecube, they hit 1 to an extent (lack of shooters hurt them, the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark audience moved away from Nintendo) and failed miserably with 2. Gamecube was the kiddy purple lunchbox with Mario's water gun and Celda. The Resident Evil games were too little too late; the damage was done. They had decent third party support for the first few years, but when you are lacking in 1 and 2, it's not enough. Doesn't help that PS2's third party support still completely shit on the Gamecube's. There was no Final Fantasy X, MGS2, Devil May Cry or Grand Theft Auto on the GC.
Wii was an anomaly. They hit 1 (Wii Sports/motion controls) and 2 (Wii Would Like To Play) so hard in such a different way that it hit the market like nothing anyone could have ever expected. They didn't need third party support for the Wii.
Now we reach Wii U, and we are once again at a Gamecube situation. I'd say they have even less compelling software and worse marketing than even the Gamecube, and the sales numbers show that. Obviously they tried to pull a Wii with 1 (the gamepad/Nintendoland?), but they didn't even try with the marketing. The first ads for the Wii U were those fucking dubstep ads. Compare that to the Wii Would Like to Play ads for the Wii, that sold everyone on the thing in 30 seconds. Terrible fucking job with the Wii U.
Why did I write this long post? What's my point? I very often see people argue that "Third parties coming to Nintendo wouldn't help anything, because the audience for Nintendo consoles aren't interested in those types of games." Well I point to the N64 and say "You're wrong. They just aren't trying hard enough, or at all." Here is the perfect Nintendo console:
1. The compelling first party software of the N64. They all had the signature Nintendo charm and quality, but also revolutionary titles like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time that put the entire gaming world on notice. Unique titles that had them step out of their comfort zone, like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Pokemon Snap. New IPs that spawned their own successful franchises for years to come, like Mario Party and Super Smash Bros. All not only some of the best playing games in the world, but also some of the best looking.
2. Strong marketing that appealed to all demographics, like the N64. N64 wasn't marketed and presented as a kiddy console. As a result, it wasn't known as a kiddy console. A game that involved shooting people in the face was the third best selling game on the console, even beating out the revolutionary Ocarina of Time. It was not marketed exclusively to young kids and families, but instead a teenage and older audience. There were ads for the N64 during wrestling and in Playboy magazine. This gave the console an aura of "coolness" which sold younger audiences on it even though it wasn't being marketed DIRECTLY to them. None of this cringeworthy shit.
3. A console built for third party developers, like the PS4. This point is the one Nintendo never hit, and explicitly stopped trying to hit starting with the N64. With the PS4, Sony went to the third parties, asked them what they wanted from their new console. After gaining this information, they built the PS4, which is essentially the dream console for third parties. This is evidenced by the unanimous third party support for the thing. Nintendo obviously does not share this philosophy, instead building the console themselves, completely internally, and then presenting it to third parties. "So, what do you think? You'll make games for it, right?" That's not how it works today. Nintendo needs to look at the PS4, the current market leader, and do that. Many say a Nintendo console that just does what the competition does is boring, or wouldn't sell well in the marketplace. It needs to be "unique". PS4 isn't doing anything unique or fancy. These are basic, fundamental traits that all video game consoles should have. Then you innovate ON TOP of that foundation.
That third point is the most important, I think. If they can't get third party support, that downwards trajectory is just going to continue. A first party box simply isn't enough unless they stumble upon something special like they did with the Wii. If successful, you find yourself with the Wiimote, Wii Sports and you win the generation. If you try that and fail, you get the gamepad and Wii U, and sell less than 15 million units when it's all said and done.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
It's simple.
They can become number 1 by becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony Computer Entertainment.
That will guarantee 1st place again
I believe suicides would happen long before that lol
i kind of don't understand what you're trying to say here.
well they made playing cards for eighty years. they jumped into other side businesses in the 60s. then they started making toys around that time and finally got into the arcade business in the 70s, before moving on to video games late in the decade. rest assured, they will probably not move to other platforms where their kind of games already don't do well. they will probably find some other business, like they did in the past.
going after the shrinking and increasingly expensive traditional market seems like a bigger and bigger mistake for everyone if it means things are even staying steady and not consolidating as they likely are.
well that's what designers are supposed to do - find creative solutions to complex problems. i think it's incredibly sad to hold the belief that this is the end of the traditional market. i think there are many many ways for it to expand.
But think of the possibilities!
Sony could let Naughty Dog take on Mario.
We could end up with an apocalyptic mushroom Kingdom with Mario taking on a role similar to Joel and Luigi as Ellie.
It would be glorious.
God of Wario.
Uncharted: Toad's Fortune
Come on Iwata - Kaz said he'll throw in a free Bravia TV if you accept the deal.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I honestly hope Nintendo returns to motion controls. Making something like Wii Motion+ or better right out of the gate. I don't think Nintendo's visions were anywhere close to realized with motion.
LOL it would be a nightmare.
Karsticles
Member
I think they should make the combine the console and handheld systems into one package. Any game is playable between both systems.
Nintendo has a trend showing in consoles in which the Wii could be seen as an outlier in that their sales have been decreasing since the NES save for that console. With their handhelds, Nintendo seems to have a high-low-high-low pattern which is similar to Sony's console pattern of low-high-low-high, so DS being an outlier is as valid as PS2 being an outlier. Nintendo's handhelds follow as much a consistent pattern as Sony's consoles do. If we purely look at their patterns, the successor to the 3DS will do better than the 3DS while the PS5 will do worse than the PS4. Now you can say that that's silly because of current market conditions in that mobile is eating into the handheld market now while the PS4 seems to be outselling every system other than the Wii, but that doesn't mean DS is an outlier compared to other Nintendo handhelds... That only means the market has changed in regards to handhelds and 3DS is suffering for it.
Worked out for them great last time. WiiU isn't doing so badly anymore now either.
Does anyone have a serious response?
Kelegacy
XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
Eh, they lost the cream of that market share to the other beefier systems. I think they always will too until they get more third party stuff, and appeal more to the hardcore with more than their core franchises alone. Most of the franchises are ones that I was playing decades ago and while still good, they aren't new. The hardcore moved on during the Wii era and really haven't come back. The casual market has also moved on so they are a bit screwed. Their next machine better have some power or they just won't be able to compete again unless they stumble upon a new gimmick, which I sure hope they don't attempt.
I still think one big way to get back into he ring is to cull the execs and start fresh. Iwata is terrible IMO and Reggie deserves the boot as well. I want more aggressiveness and guts from them, and the course modern Nintendo is on seems broken.
I haven't liked Nintendo since the Wii and though I own a Wii U, its the least used console in the house, even with the kids. It's a generation behind power-wise again and though now is capable of HD finally, it's too little too late for my household to care much when there is so much to play on the other system. Mostly thanks to 3rd parties but there you have it.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll