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[block tower]

So what's your suggestion? Padlock the doors at Nintendo HQ? This thread is about discussing ways they as a company can come back. Everybody already knows Nintendo is currently in their least successful period in their history. It's not interesting to point that out for the eight thousandth time.

well truthfully i think theyre fucked. their best option is to release a competent next-gen system marketed to core gamers as a second console. it should have a traditional controller, 1st and 2nd party games, a unified account system with their next handheld, and a really basic UI and online system. it really should be a barebones system that can be sold at a price at or under $250. thats my only solution.

their handheld and console market share will continue to diminish becuase of lack of interest and competitors like Sony, MS, Android and Apple devices. so i really Nitnendo's best be is to expand their ip's into other media like theyre doing with Zelda with Netflix; and by releasing a new console that caters toward Nitnendo's hardcore and gaming's core audience, making that console appeal as a second console for gamers to get their Nintendo fix at a cheap price.

doing anything else like releasing more obscure hardware or target kids while only make their fade out of the console market that much quicker.

 

[xaszatm]

this is family gaming with children and parents in 2015. Nintendo cant capture this market anymore.

OK, then but that isn't necessarily "family" gaming. That is mobile gaming. One of the first things we have to do when discussing the future is realizing that we are being way too general in our grouping. Separating all of gaming into "hardcore" and "casual" means we end up with people on either side that really don't fit in. So, what Nintendo should do isn't cater to those extremes, but create a new market, or exploit (can't think of a better term) a starving market, instead.

Remember what the surprised success of the last two years was: Animal Crossing New Leaf and Tomadachi Life. Both games were wildly successful worldwide, something that shocked many people. I think that this is a sign that there are still people got in between the two groups: people who want something more than the casual games mobile games provide but are not willing to dive head long into the "hardcore" crowd. Nintendo, by catering to this crowd, can make a profit without directly competing with its competitors which, let's be frank, have money to throw around.

Hell, we know Nintendo can make these games great. Nintendogs, Style Savvy, Animal Crossing, Tomadachi Life, Mii games. All these games are usually lauded and are now finally become successful franchises. Nintendo should focus on this market in addition to making games that appeal to the Nitnendo fanboys.

That's my opinion anyways.

 

[Box]

There's no special audience that Nintendo needs to have. Core vs casual, it doesn't matter. You just design a good product that makes Nintendo games look appealing. If they can't ultimately convince people that Nintendo games are worth buying, then it doesn't matter which market they go after.

I think it's pretty simple really. The Wii U was not an appealing product. If they make something better, it shouldn't require pretending that they're not Nintendo.

 

[Snakeyes]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals". Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to stay relevant among an older crowd in NA, even with Sony's advertising machine firing on all cylinders. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals"/B]. Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to fend off the competition in NA. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

This post is beautiful. Agree 100%. They really need a broad line of hardware.

 

[Calamari41]

Snakeyes nailed it. I agree completely, and it sounds like Iwata does too.

 

[block tower]

OK, then but that isn't necessarily "family" gaming. That is mobile gaming. One of the first things we have to do when discussing the future is realizing that we are being way too general in our grouping. Separating all of gaming into "hardcore" and "casual" means we end up with people on either side that really don't fit in. So, what Nintendo should do isn't cater to those extremes, but create a new market, or exploit (can't think of a better term) a starving market, instead.
.

no, this IS the modern version of family gaming. it doesnt matter that this is a mobile device, this is what families game on whether at home or on the go. and THAT is exactly why Nitnendo has such a difficult task with their home consoles goign forward, tabelts and smartphone can be both for kids and parents. if kids or parents really ant to play Nintendo games, theyll dust off their old Wii that they go back in 2006 and play Wii sports or Just dance. kids and parents just dont care right now about Nintendo's new console, they think the Wii is enough and that if their kids want something new thyell give them their old tablet or smartphone or buy them a new phablet.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I don't think they do. I really, really don't.

Mobile games are free. 99 cents. Full of in app purchases or advertisements to generate profits. Nintendo will never go down that road with their games. Or, if they do, it would be a massive shift in their style of game development. FAR more massive than just getting on par with Sony/MS and making games in the more traditional fashion.

Competing with the mobile market would cripple Nintendo. It's just way too different of a beast. The people that bought a Wii have moved on from console/traditional portable gaming and are not coming back. They don't need to get their fill anymore with Wii Sports or Guitar Hero. They can play their shitty iphone game on the bus or crush some candy for free and get their fill.

I think Nintendo would find far more success just going after the core gamer. To do that, you need games. All of the games. COD. FIFA. Minecraft. GTA. Nintendo would be insane to release a console at this point without securing those games, along with other third party support. A Wii situation is never going to happen again.

And Nintendo is never getting those games. So what do they do in that case?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

That's what I've said. Their OS should really be their next "system" and the platform they build around. The low cost option could also be the one that pushes Virtual Console hard as a service. Imagine being able to buy a $99-129 box that gives you access to VC and games from NES to N64 and everything in between? That's one way to get the more casual people who might not be willing to spend $200-300 (with $50 a pop for games) to get their nostalgia/Nintendo fix.

 

[Freeman]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals". Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to stay relevant among an older crowd in NA, even with Sony's advertising machine firing on all cylinders. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

That was pretty good but it makes too much sense for Nintendo to do it.

I would add that Nintendo needs to stop trying to rip people of with their prices, get on with the times.

 

[xaszatm]

no, this IS the modern version of family gaming. it doesnt matter that this is a mobile device, this is what families game on whether at home or on the go. and THAT is exactly why Nitnendo has such a difficult task with their home consoles goign forward, tabelts and smartphone can be both for kids and parents. if kids or parents really ant to play Nintendo games, theyll dust off their old Wii that they go back in 2006 and play Wii sports or Just dance. kids and parents just dont care right now about Nintendo's new console, they think the Wii is enough and that if their kids want something new thyell give them their old tablet or smartphone or buy them a new phablet.

...I give you two examples of games that fit this category that are successes (millions sold) and your response is "they'll just go back to old stuff". Really. OK, then Nintendo obviously should do nothing according to you because if they go casual they will fail against the mobile crowd and if they go hardcore they'll fail against Sony/Microsoft and if they try and find another market they'll fail because everyone obviously has to fit into one of these two categories. There, is that any better?

And another thing: your "they'll just go back to the old consoles" could work perfectly well with Sony's and Microsoft's console market right now. Why should I pay a large amount of money for an Xbox One or a PS4 when I have my favorites on the Xbox 360 and PS3?

 

[Anth0ny]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals". Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to stay relevant among an older crowd in NA, even with Sony's advertising machine firing on all cylinders. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

Great post! Totally agree.

 

[AmyS]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

Yes. Yes. Yes, and Yes.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

They won with a gimmick. They need another gimmick. They won't win with a console like the PS4 or Xbone.

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't think they do. I really, really don't.

Mobile games are free. 99 cents. Full of in app purchases or advertisements to generate profits. Nintendo will never go down that road with their games. Or, if they do, it would be a massive shift in their style of game development. FAR more massive than just getting on par with Sony/MS and making games in the more traditional fashion.

Competing with the mobile market would cripple Nintendo. It's just way too different of a beast. The people that bought a Wii have moved on from console/traditional portable gaming and are not coming back. They don't need to get their fill anymore with Wii Sports or Guitar Hero. They can play their shitty iphone game on the bus or crush some candy for free and get their fill.

I think Nintendo would find far more success just going after the core gamer. To do that, you need games. All of the games. COD. FIFA. Minecraft. GTA. Nintendo would be insane to release a console at this point without securing those games, along with other third party support. A Wii situation is never going to happen again.

Nope. A Nintendo Corebox that gets Mario, Zelda and every major multiplatform title is a nice fantasy to have, but it's still a fantasy. To even start competing with Sony/MS for the core market, they'd have to (re)build their online infrastructure, third-party relations, Western first-party support, and overall brand perception from the ground up, and their deficit in these areas is far too massive to close in time for a 2017 launch, let alone a 2016 one.

On the casual/family/kids end of the market, they're probably still screwed, but they at least have some appealing IP. By contrast, they have practically nothing to woo core gamers beyond the Nintendo faithful, especially in the West, (Xenoblade and Devil's Third are hardly system sellers), and that can only be addressed to a very limited extent in the timeframe they have available.

 

[Oblivion]

I still maintain that they need to make a console that's as powerful as the other two for ease of multi-platform titles. Both the Wii and Wii-U suffered by being severely underpowered, making the idea of porting games a useless effort. And look at the Xbone. It's not exactly as powerful as the PS4 but it's still getting most of the same games.

Some might point to the N64 and GC as proof that this won't work, but that's cause both were held back by limiting storage systems (cartridges and mini-discs). With the Wii and Wii-U, it doesn't look like that's one thing Nintendo has learned from past mistakes.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

-snip!.

Well I referenced Crytech and such to compare quality, not volume out output. Crytech is not the same size as Nintendo nor is it a publishing house in the same vein, it's a bit of a stretch to compare them in that sort of metric. You've probably seen just about as many Zelda's in the same timeframe as Crysis 2, 3, Ryse etc. Nintendo's got the vision and the technical know how to resist becoming diluted in the 3rd party market.

I just don't think people should immediately assume Nintendo couldn't survive without their own hardware. Their dev's are better than that

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I still maintain that they need to make a console that's as powerful as the other two for ease of multi-platform titles. Both the Wii and Wii-U suffered by being severely underpowered, making the idea of porting games a useless effort. And look at the Xbone. It's not exactly as powerful as the PS4 but it's still getting most of the same games.

Some might point to the N64 and GC as proof that this won't work, but that's cause both were held back by limiting storage systems (cartridges and mini-discs). With the Wii and Wii-U, it doesn't look like that's one thing Nintendo has learned from past mistakes.

Power is not the only reason Sony and MS get 3rd party support. The PS3 by all accounts was a pain in the ass to work with and still got third party support. Simply putting the hardware out there and thinking third parties will flock to you is not how it works. Since MS and Sony have entered the console video game business they have built their business around courting these third parties (while in a lot of cases, especially early on, Nintendo has done the opposite).

 

[block tower]

...I give you two examples of games that fit this category that are successes (millions sold) and your response is "they'll just go back to old stuff". Really. OK, then Nintendo obviously should do nothing according to you because if they go casual they will fail against the mobile crowd and if they go hardcore they'll fail against Sony/Microsoft and if they try and find another market they'll fail because everyone obviously has to fit into one of these two categories. There, is that any better?

And another thing: your "they'll just go back to the old consoles" could work perfectly well with Sony's and Microsoft's console market right now. Why should I pay a large amount of money for an Xbox One or a PS4 when I have my favorites on the Xbox 360 and PS3?

well if you want my honest opinon than yes, Nintendo is fucked in the home console market. over a few generations, Wii excluded, Nintendo has lost good will with third party developers and the core gaming crowd, they likely wont be able to get either back no matter what their next system is. my solution for a last ditch effort is release a console in late 2016 that is on par with the PS4 and Xbox One hardware wise, release it for under $300, have it come with a traditional controller and focus on 1st and 2nd party games while also convincing 3rd developers to release their games on the system too.

also another thing, Sony's and Microsoft's audience is completely different from Nintendo. people who bought the PS3 and Xbox360 care about the PS4 and Xbox One for their exclusives and 3rd party games that are no longer on the previous systems. most of the people who bought the Wii do not care that Nintendo released the Wii U, at all, so what your left with are the core Nintendo fans who have gone out and bought the Wii U. the reason i said that people who already owned a Wii would likely just dust it off and game on that console instead of buying a Wii U is because they are satisfied with the Wii games and dont care about new software thats only found on Wii U, the new software they do care about is on their Apple and Android devices.

 

[Oblivion]

Power is not the only reason Sony and MS get 3rd party support. The PS3 by all accounts was a pain in the ass to work with and still got third party support. Simply putting the hardware out there and thinking third parties will flock to you is not how it works. Since MS and Sony have entered the console video game business they have built their business around courting these third parties (while in a lot of cases, especially early on, Nintendo has done the opposite).

Well, as I'm sure you know, the PS3 was the successor to the best selling console of all time (which also, wasn't a breeze to program for, coincidentally enough), so of course third parties were going to put up with any inconveniences.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying Nintendo going the route I suggested will automatically make them number 1 again. But by removing such barriers, it would make the idea of porting games easier for third parties to swallow.

 

[Opiate]

this is family gaming with children and parents in 2015. Nintendo cant capture this market anymore.

Well, there is a reasonable argument to suggest they should certainly try.

While the "core" market is safer, it's also not very profitable. It just depends on what you want: do you want to be riskier and hope for a larger profit, or play it safe, limit your downside, but simultaneously limit your upside?

It's not like companies are clamoring to get in to the "core" market; if anything, they're gradually exiting. I'm not sure NIntendo has any other choice, though.

I don't think you understood mine. You think Nintendo should "do what iOS did," but iOS was able to do what it did because people were buying tons of iPhones for the hardware/UI rather than for the app/game ecosystem. For Nintendo to duplicate Apple's success at attracting third-party developers it would need to duplicate Apple's success at making people want to buy its products for their non-gaming utility.

Yes, I understand that it would be very difficult for Nintendo. There really isn't any path I see for Nintendo to garner support that is not difficult. Again, I'm not sure you understood my point.

 

[AngryNapkin]

Well it depends on how you delineate family totals. Do you do it this way?

GB: 119m (1989-2002)
GBA: 82m (2001-2007)
DS: 154m (2004-2014)
3DS: 50m+ (2011-now)

Or this way?

GB: 69m (1989-1999)
GBC: 50m (1998-2002)
GBA: 82m (2001-2007)
DS: 111m (2004-2014)
DSi: 43m (2008-2014)
3DS: 48m+ (2011-now)
n3DS: 2m+ (2014-now)

Really your reduced userbase/perpetual decline narrative means nothing in context. Because in any real meaningful market sense, GBA wasn't a decline. It was an increase.

Now 3DS, there's a clear and fast decline here. But the handheld line overall? It only grew from the Poké-fueld GB rebirth in the mid 90s until the DS peak in the late 00s. No real way around that.

I'm looking at it the first way since they are the same family line. In a similar sense to how a new model of console is still classified as sales for that entire line. The games were backwards compatible and the newer revisions did not see huge software support iirc.

I guess you can look at it differently and say they saw growth over a previous model but I wouldn't because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

The New 3DS won't see significant increases in new software specifically designed for that platform, where as support for the previous model probably won't change for the worse.

 

[geordiemp]

I think they should release a portable that is IPAD sized, with controls and optional pro controller, can also hook up to the TV with HDMI.

That way they can merge their handheld and WiiU markets and are competing at a higher end mobile / low end console.

Something like the current WiiU tablet but that is the whole console but with a better screen.

If they were really adventurous they could dual boot with Android.

They would not really be competing with MS / Sony, have all 3DS software at better resolution, all WiiU software and some mobile games....

Nintablet.....Don't shoot me..

 

[Calamari41]

I'm looking at it the first way since they are the same family line. In a similar sense to how a new model of console is still classified as sales for that entire line. The games were backwards compatible and the newer revisions did not see huge software support iirc.

I guess you can look at it differently and say they saw growth over a previous model but I wouldn't because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

The New 3DS won't see significant increases in new software specifically designed for that platform, where as support for the previous model probably won't change for the worse.

The GBA was out for 3 years before the DS hit the market and started taking all of the glory and games. 3 years. The Gameboy had a solid decade to itself, and the DS 7 years to itself.

Come on now. The GBA was wildly successful and was knocked out of the spotlight by Nintendo in its prime.

 

[AngryNapkin]

The GBA was out for 3 years before the DS hit the market and started taking all of the glory and games. 3 years. The Gameboy had a solid decade to itself, and the DS 7 years to itself.

Come on now. The GBA was wildly successful and was knocked out of the spotlight by Nintendo in its prime.

And the point remains the same, it still declined. I don't think you can say they saw an "increase" in their base when it didn't overtake the previous product line. Like he said, yes they knocked it out of the park but how many people who bought a GBA didn't own the earlier models?

It's not Nintendos fault imo since the DS was hugely successful and dropping it was a good call. The DS increased their base, but look at what is happening and correlate that with their home consoles.

Looking at it by family type, it shows the same pattern. What is the general end of life sales estimates for the 3DS at this point? The drop off from GB to GBA was 40 million I believe and if they didn't sell another 3DS at this point the drop off would be 30 million give or take.

 

[AmyS]

Speaking of Nintendo and Crytek, Nintendo's next console must launch with a completed version of Monster Hunter Online which still currently PC-only BETA in Asia) and runs on CryEngine 3. [Capcom/Tencent].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ_8SuIn2y0 [set to 1080p60]

So glorious, such color and vibrance !

A handheld version would naturally work at lower resolution and graphic settings on Nintendo's common OS and architecture.

 

[Calamari41]

And the point remains the same, it still declined. I don't think you can say they saw an "increase" in their base when it didn't overtake the previous product line. Like he said, yes they knocked it out of the park but how many people who bought a GBA didn't own the earlier models?

It's not Nintendos fault imo since the DS was hugely successful and dropping it was a good call. The DS increased their base, but look at what is happening and correlate that with their home consoles.

Looking at it by family type, it shows the same pattern. What is the general end of life sales estimates for the 3DS at this point? The drop off from GB to GBA was 40 million I believe and if they didn't sell another 3DS at this point the drop off would be 30 million give or take.

You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Nintendo was selling more handhelds per year than ever before during the GBA days, and went up even higher during the DS days. It's not about what the end of life sales total is regardless of years on the market, it's about how many people are regularly buying your system. The number of people buying Nintendo handhelds went up consistently until the 3DS.

Think about it this way: if Sony decided to shutter PS4 sales in a couple of years and launch the PS5, with the PS4's sales being 65 million over the course of three years... Would you say that the PS4 was a failure or a disappointment, or represented a downturn in Sony's place in the market compared to the PS3, which saw 85 million in sales over 7 years? Even if the new PS5 went on to sell at an even faster rate than the 65m/3yrs PS4? No, that would be an insane stance.

 

[block tower]

Well, there is a reasonable argument to suggest they should certainly try.

While the "core" market is safer, it's also not very profitable. It just depends on what you want: do you want to be riskier and hope for a larger profit, or play it safe, limit your downside, but simultaneously limit your upside?

It's not like companies are clamoring to get in to the "core" market; if anything, they're gradually exiting. I'm not sure NIntendo has any other choice, though.

yes i understand Nintendo has to try and get this market back, i just dont see a realistic way Nintendo does it. whether there was a lack of marketing or not, the Wii U is on shelves, people are aware it exists in some capacity, they simply dont care. the consumer base that bought the Wii just doesnt care about the Wii U, and probably console gaming in general, instead they are satisfied with tablet and smartphone gaming. i just dont see how Nintendo gets those people back, they arent gamers who really seem to want a dedicated device for only gaming, tablets and smartphones are good for them because those devices do many other things and are portable.

 

[Calamari41]

yes i understand Nintendo has to try and get this market back, i just dont see a realistic way Nintendo does it. whether there was a lack of marketing or not, the Wii U is on shelves, people are aware it exists in some complicity, they simply dont care. the consumer base that bought the Wii just doesnt care about the Wii U, and probably console gaming in general, instead the are satisfied with tablet and smartphone gaming. i just dont see how Nintendo gets those people back, they arent gamers who really seem to want a dedicated device for only gaming, tablets and smartphones are good for them because those devices do many other things and are portable.

There's an argument to be made that this demographic did not know that the Wii U existed for at least its first year on the market, if not longer. The whole "what, is this a controller for the Wii?" thing.

 

[block tower]

There's an argument to be made that this demographic did not know that the Wii U existed for at least its first year on the market, if not longer. The whole "what, is this a controller for the Wii?" thing.

but it does exist and people dont care outside of Nintendo's core audience. even if you argue that a majority of the Wii's audience still has no idea the Wii U exists, much of the PS4's and X1's audience does know it exists and doesnt care. its not consumers job to go and seek out Nintendo's console, its Nintendo's job to let consumers know about these consoles. if Nintendo cant even advertise to potential consumers, then why bother even considering them as potential buyers.

 

[Calamari41]

but it does exist and people dont care outside of Nintendo's core audience. even if you argue that a majority of the Wii's audience still has no idea the Wii U exists, much of the PS4's and X1's audience does know it exists and doesnt care. its not consumers job to go and seek out Nintendo's console, its Nintendo's job to let consumers know about these consoles. if Nintendo cant even advertise to potential consumers, then why bother even considering them as potential buyers.

Nothing you said is wrong, but to assume that Nintendo will do absolutely nothing differently going forward is probably the wrong thing to do.

They entered this gen with the attitude of "we can just slap this into stores and it will sell out for the first year." They can't, and I believe won't, have that attitude again.

 

[Anth0ny]

Nope. A Nintendo Corebox that gets Mario, Zelda and every major multiplatform title is a nice fantasy to have, but it's still a fantasy. To even start competing with Sony/MS for the core market, they'd have to (re)build their online infrastructure, third-party relations, Western first-party support, and overall brand perception from the ground up, and their deficit in these areas is far too massive to close in time for a 2017 launch, let alone a 2016 one.

On the casual/family/kids end of the market, they're probably still screwed, but they at least have some appealing IP. By contrast, they have practically nothing to woo core gamers beyond the Nintendo faithful, especially in the West, (Xenoblade and Devil's Third are hardly system sellers), and that can only be addressed to a very limited extent in the timeframe they have available.

You're not wrong. But they have to try. The bolded are things people expect with their video game consoles in this day and age. Should Nintendo just ignore all of those things forever? Maybe they won't nail everything with their next console, but if they take a big step in the right direction with it, the market will take notice. By the next, next console, who knows?

Look at the PS4. It's selling at a Wii-like pace. They're obviously doing something right. That is the strategy you have to be considering right now if you're Nintendo. You can still innovate while giving the market what they clearly want.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Yes, I understand that it would be very difficult for Nintendo. There really isn't any path I see for Nintendo to garner support that is not difficult. Again, I'm not sure you understood my point.

It's not a matter of being difficult. It's impossible for Nintendo to "do what Apple did." Doing so requires releasing a piece of hardware desirable in itself rather than for the games it can play. Nintendo cannot do that.

 

[block tower]

Nothing you said is wrong, but to assume that Nintendo will do absolutely nothing differently going forward is probably the wrong thing to do.

They entered this gen with the attitude of "we can just slap this into stores and it will sell out for the first year." They can't, and I believe won't, have that attitude again.

yea thats what im hoping for. Nintendo needs to come out swinging with their next console and aggressively go after the Wii audience again, because the Wii was a great all around console. im excited to see what true desperation will make Nintendo come up with, because imo the Wii U was lazy.

hopefully 2016 is when they come back with a new and exciting console.

 

[Sandfox]

If Nintendo wants the family audience they need to make an appealing device that they would want even if there is a tablet in the house and market it like the old days.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

And Nintendo is never getting those games. So what do they do in that case?

Not getting Minecraft or GTA is one thing. COD even? Not smart. But I seriously think that not having FIFA and Madden is a death sentence for a console trying to be successful outside of a hardcore market.

 

[block tower]

Not getting Minecraft or GTA is one thing. COD even? Not smart. But I seriously think that not having FIFA and Madden is a death sentence for a console to be successful.

no one is going on nintendos console to play competitive sports or fps games. Nintendo can get these games but its not a make or break like some like to make it out to be.

 

[Calamari41]

no one is going on nintendos console to play competitive sports or fps games. Nintendo can get these games but its not a make or break like some like to make it out to be.

Exactly. Those games will "tag along," so to speak, on a successful Nintendo console. But only after the fact... they won't be there to will a Nintendo system to success, like third parties did for Sony with the PS3. Nintendo is on their own as far as making their next system a success.

 

[Mentok]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals". Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to stay relevant among an older crowd in NA, even with Sony's advertising machine firing on all cylinders. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

Wow... absolutely spot on perfect post.

 

[AmyS]

Look at the PS4. It's selling at a Wii-like pace. They're obviously doing something right. That is the strategy you have to be considering right now if you're Nintendo. You can still innovate while giving the market what they clearly want.

Well said.

 

[block tower]

Exactly. Those games will "tag along," so to speak, on a successful Nintendo console. But only after the fact... they won't be there to will a Nintendo system to success, like third parties did for Sony with the PS3. Nintendo is on their own as far as making their next system a success.

exactly. nintendo first party and the console itsft are the make or break for nintendo. hopefully the new console is just as powerful as the ps4 and x1 so that third party support is an easy thing. releasing a nintendo console that could get the exact same third party games as ps4 and x1 would be huge. its on nintendo to make a new console that is easy to port o tho, so i hope they do.

 

[Votron]

A 'me too' approach would be a disaster in my opinion. Be creative, be fresh, pump out those first party gems.

yea..seems to be working alright for their current home console which equivalently powered to the other compe..I mean non-competitors and more third parties than others...

Go wiiU.... -_-

 

[AngryNapkin]

You're looking at it from the wrong angle. Nintendo was selling more handhelds per year than ever before during the GBA days, and went up even higher during the DS days. It's not about what the end of life sales total is regardless of years on the market, it's about how many people are regularly buying your system. The number of people buying Nintendo handhelds went up consistently until the 3DS.

Think about it this way: if Sony decided to shutter PS4 sales in a couple of years and launch the PS5, with the PS4's sales being 65 million over the course of three years... Would you say that the PS4 was a failure or a disappointment, or represented a downturn in Sony's place in the market compared to the PS3, which saw 85 million in sales over 7 years? Even if the new PS5 went on to sell at an even faster rate than the 65m/3yrs PS4? No, that would be an insane stance.

Let me try to put it another way, regardless of platform being mobile or home based.

Console 1: 10 yrs on market 9 million sales EOL
Console 2: 7 yrs on market 7 million sales EOL
Console 3: 4 yrs on market 5 million sales EOL
Console 4: 3 yrs on market 3 million sales EOL
Console 5: 1 yrs on market 500k sales

This ignores profit, attach ratios, other sources of revenue, stock prices, etc. those figures are just an example but my question is what does everyone classify as a company's base? Yes there were increases in annual sales for certain versions of platforms as was mentioned before but the overall trending pattern is downward.

I've only ever taken economics in my freshman college years so I'm probably missing something. Apple, Samsung, IKEA, Walmart, etc, all of these companies grow. They have customers that buy their products some of whom are loyal. It's either that or they sustain, lose, or grown in no particular pattern. Nintendo has the same pattern regardless of market conditions outside of their control.

Those patterns don't show loyalty to me, not when the drop offs are that severe especially for their home console business.

Ultimately how can Nintendo survive long term outside of branching into other sectors if their base eventually hits 0?

 

[Josh5890]

I know this is a much smaller issue but I really liked what Nintendo did with creating the Gamecube adapter (even if it is for only one game as of right now. I would love if they released something similar for all older controllers in the future, or at least the 64 controllers given how weirdly shaped it was.

Otherwise there is a lot of great ideas. On a personal note, if the next Nintendo system carried all 3rd party games with the same features I would seriously consider dumping Sony for the future.

Spoiler

I probably wouldn't but Nintendo would get a ton of support from me in game sales.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

no one is going on nintendos console to play competitive sports or fps games. Nintendo can get these games but its not a make or break like some like to make it out to be.

I can tell you that first party output alone, unless there's a compelling Wii-esque gimmick isn't going to propel their next console to success. Good hardware, appealing exclusives, third party support. You can't leave these things out. I don't know that FIFA is "make or break" but not having a game like that is a huge net-negative.

The reason I highlighted FIFA is because it's an example of a hugely popular casual game (casual for most people). I have had many friends who have bought a new console for the express purpose of playing the newest and best version of FIFA. Once they've gotten their FIFA, they then buy into their console's ecosystem and start exploring exclusive titles. Really, there will be a huge segment of potential customers who will not buy a console simply because it doesn't have Madden or FIFA or COD. And you can't ignore that reality.

 

[Griss]

this is family gaming with children and parents in 2015. Nintendo cant capture this market anymore.

I went out for three meals with friends in the last four days, went to a sports club twice and went to the beach. At each of these places I saw something similar to this photo playing out multiple times with parents and their kids from ages 4-8. Either showing them how to do something or putting on a game or video and leaving them in a corner happily, like my folks used to do with me and my Game Gear. (for the 15 minutes it lasted on 6AAs... still bitter)

I don't know how Nintendo interfaces with this new reality, I really don't. I don't know how they can reach this market ever again without going where those people already are.

This next device is so crucial that if I was on Nintendo's hardware team I wouldn't even sleep at night. Shit, I can hardly sleep thinking about it and I'm just a fan. But fuck if I'm not nervous.

 

[AmyS]

I love the design of the NES, one of the best looking machines Nintendo ever produced.

The NES in various forms:

Advanced Video System concept (1984, CES)

 

[ksdixon]

- Backwards Compatible with NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, WiiNunchuck & Wiimote, WiiU GamePad controllers, for use on older games released digitally.

- Uses Pro controller as the standard.

- NextGen Nintendo Portable does Remote Play for NextGen Nintendo Console.

 

[Rocky]

NVM.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Nail the foundation of their unified hardware architecture and development tools. The more scalable it is, the more flexibility Nintendo will have when it comes to releasing all kinds of different hardware configurations and form factors, which would help their products reach more market segments. If it were up to me, the lineup of NintendOS gaming devices would consist of at least four pillars at all times; a low cost, entry-level handheld, a low-cost, entry-level console, a high-end handheld and a high-end console, all following a shorter update cycle than the usual 5-6 year hardware generation.

A modern account system and better online features. Pretty self-explanatory.

A truly unified software library. No separate versions, no download codes and not even cross-buy. Every game should be compatible with every NintendOS device that is capable of running it at the lowest settings, and a single purchase should give you access to the game on any compatible Nintendo device. This would not only free up Nintendo's development resources, but also encourage consumers to buy into and remain in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Focus on delivering an attractive product for everyone instead of aiming it specifically at the "hardcore" or "casuals". Contrary to popular belief, the PS1 didn't win the 32-bit generation because of a focus on "mature" content (the PS1 had more kiddy shovelware than the N64 had games), but because it was the first console that successfully marketed itself towards both younger and older audiences. Even the Wii had a pretty good balance between blue ocean software and more traditional stuff during its first two years on the market, which greatly contributed to its early success. Apple doesn't build most of its products with a specific demographic in mind - they simply try to make them desirable to as many people as possible while following an overarching vision and staying within a certain budget.

Ditch the heavy focus on child-friendly content and advertising. Seriously. Most kids over 8 years old want to play what the older siblings and/or adults they look up to are playing. You can probably count the Apple ads aimed at younger audiences on one hand, and yet iDevices and Macbooks are some of the most popular Christmas gifts for children. This does not mean Nintendo needs to shelve Mario and Pokemon or shy away from creating whimsical new IPs, but their first-party lineup needs a better balance between child-friendly content and games with a more mature presentation. Same goes for their advertising.

Beef up their western studios and invest in a handful of high-profile IPs with a mature presentation. This doesn't mean pumping out dozens of mature games every year at the expense of everything else, but they need one or two high-profile mature IPs for variety's sake. The N64 only really needed Goldeneye to stay relevant among an older crowd in NA, even with Sony's advertising machine firing on all cylinders. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to shoehorn cel-shading into Zelda when the market has clearly shown a preference towards a darker, more realistic artstyle.

Make sure the 3DS successor starts out strong and retains its momentum. A well designed and successful platform usually attracts third parties. With a unified software library, any support for a Nintendo handheld would automatically bolster the home console, which in turn makes it a more enticing purchase.

Aggressively court Japanese third parties. Japan shuns consoles in favor of handhelds. The West does the exact opposite. Being able to deploy a piece of software on both form factors in a single development cycle is a very attractive proposition for Japanese developers who want their games to reach the biggest audience possible without gambling on the volatile mobile market. Nintendo should try to use this opportunity to get most of the big name IPs and developers back on board.

Extend an olive branch to western third parties. They likely won't be back in full capacity, but making it easier to port their most popular games over to NintendOS devices wouldn't hurt anyone.

Great post.
I wish Nintendo could think this way.

Instead of that, they are now talking about finding revenue streams beside the video games.

Sometimes I think their conservative strategy can no longer apply to nowadays video games market and that they know it but refuse to change this way of thinking. If they find a successful new revenue source, I fear for the mid-term future.