Interceptor
Banned
The Gamepad is my universal remote. Instant win.
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How did Nintendo lose it's edge on controls this generation?
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Poodlestrike
Banned
It's kind of funny to have the N64 controller in there, considering how ergonomically ridiculous it was.
Anyway, I'd say it's a simple result of prizing alternative features over traditional refinement. It's worked out for them some times, but in others it's pretty clear they've dropped the ball.
Anyway, I'd say it's a simple result of prizing alternative features over traditional refinement. It's worked out for them some times, but in others it's pretty clear they've dropped the ball.
They really should have dropped the "Wii" name, or at least kept the pointer controls if they did want to keep the name (though I'm glad they dropped them)
FunkyDealer
Banned
I've got
1x Gamepad
2x Pro Controller
4x Wiimote w/nunchuck (and wheel)
2x Classic Controller Pro
2x Gamecube Controller
That's 11 controllers for one system. More than I've got for Ps3, Ps4 and Xbone combined. They need one standardised controller next gen, because this has gotten silly. A lot of the blame lies with Wii-mode and it's lack of support for new controllers.
1x Gamepad
2x Pro Controller
4x Wiimote w/nunchuck (and wheel)
2x Classic Controller Pro
2x Gamecube Controller
That's 11 controllers for one system. More than I've got for Ps3, Ps4 and Xbone combined. They need one standardised controller next gen, because this has gotten silly. A lot of the blame lies with Wii-mode and it's lack of support for new controllers.
Phat Michael
Banned
i really hope nintendo go back to the drawing board and make a gimmick free console which is extremely powerful and creates some games which benefit from the new hardware.
the SNES is the best console i have ever owned, but the Wii and the Wii U were just not for me.
the SNES is the best console i have ever owned, but the Wii and the Wii U were just not for me.
And to add to this very few games have even utilized the GamePad as well. It's relegated to expensive gimmick status, and the vocal minority who want to play while taking a dump or are not allowed to game on the television when they want, make it seem like it's incredibly necessary.
If I'm playing a console at home, I have a 55" LED to use as my screen. Give me the pro controller and $100 off the price of the console instead of a GamePad that is underutilized and only benefits a few niche gamers. Don't get me wrong, the GamePad could have done better, but it didn't. Instead, almost every game plays great with either a gamecube controller or the pro controller or even the old wiimotes.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I personally think they should have done this for Wii U.
That would be a win right there. The whole thing looks cheap too. Just needs polishing.
- Can have up to 4 Wii Gamepads synced (each with a multi-touch screen)
That would be a win right there. The whole thing looks cheap too. Just needs polishing.
SerTapTap
Member
It's kind of a mess, but the Wii was also a mess, if anything the Wii u uses its noon standard controllers better. No gyro in the pro controller and no analog triggers are petty lame moves, everything else is pretty much just a result of to many controller s, some of which just can't work in some games.
I don't think 4 gamepads would have ever worked, not unless they all get the same video signal.
I don't think 4 gamepads would have ever worked, not unless they all get the same video signal.
Or just called it the goddamn Wii 2. Playstation has serious brand recognition because Sony just iterates on the number, building recognition of Playstation from generation to generation.
Nintendo did that with the NES, SNES, and N64 (Nintendo being the key phrase in all three naming conventions). Then went away with it in the GC which flopped, hit a mass market home run with the Wii, but then got way too cute on how to follow it up. Wii 2, simple as that. If you want to be cute with the name maybe call it Wii Too or some bullshit, but U? That's horrible.
Also, the gamepad has yet to truly be validated in my experience. It's nice but knowing that the cost of the system was inflated by ~$100-$150 for the inclusion of it is insane. If they'd offered it as an optional peripheral and sold the Wii 2 at $250 with what's in the box and the Pro Controller they'd have been far better off. If they could have swung $250 with what's in the box, a pro controller, and a Wiimote set it would have been well on it's way.
Nintendo's control innovations have always seemed great because Nintendo has always immediately followed with gameplay that made them seem great. They have yet to really do that with the Wii U gamepad. Nice, but not analog stick + Mario 64 or Golden Eye levels of game changing, or Wii Sports with the wiimote, or the major gameplay expansion with all the extra SNES buttons. The GC didn't really find that same stride, but the Wavebird was the first big proof of concept that wireless was the future so there's that. I don't think the Gamepad has proven that screens in our controllers is gonna be standard any time soon.
CrazyMoonTalk
Member
I can totally understand the map for being an inconvenience in a game like Mariokart, and to be honest I felt it was an annoyance to have the map and text displayed on the gamepad for Hyrule Warriors as well. I was thinking more along the lines of RPGs and slower paced games where you would need to study a map or inventory screen instead of needing quick info at a glance. It's not a huge bonus, no. But years of similar use from the DS family has made it a very familiar and welcome addition. One I wouldn't consider giving up unless for some reason I found it agonizing to hold the gamepad vs. the pro controller.
I've been gaming on consoles extensively for 2 and a half decades. I can pick and choose features from different controllers that I enjoy over others, but the Wii U gamepad is a top 5 contender in terms of a complete package. Due to button placement, it's just as familiar as the dualshock design. d-pad, facebuttons, shoulder button, and analogs are in the same place (well analogs flipped above face buttons). The only difference is how far apart your hands are.
To put it another way, there is no way the pro controller can feel more familiar, and the gamepad cannot. If you closed your eyes, aside from your arms being further apart, you wouldn't feel anything different.
The weight of both is so minor I don't think I've ever noticed. You're holding both with two hands. I can't pick up on a ~6oz difference.
The problem is eh controller ecosystem, which is a fucking mess. On the other hand, you have controller backwards compatibility which is awesome.
Talking about the controllers themselves, I don't see how they dropped the ball, both the gamepad and the pro controller are amazing.
Talking about the controllers themselves, I don't see how they dropped the ball, both the gamepad and the pro controller are amazing.
From the NES to the GC they always built on what made their controllers great, the SNES was like the NES controller but it had more buttons, shoulder buttons and it was more ergonomic, the N64 added the analogue stick and trigger which made controlling games in 3D better, then the GC refined that design with better shoulder buttons and a more ergonomic design
Then the Wii added some good stuff but it also threw away a lot of what was great about their controllers, and then the Wii U gamepad threw away a lot of the positives from the Wiimote
The MS controllers follow the original Nintendo philosophy of building on what came before, and so do the Sony ones, though to a lesser extent
It's great Nintendo want to do something innovative, but you can't just throw a load of stuff at the wall and hope it sticks, hopefully the NX goes back to a standard controller that will work with ALL the games on the Virtual Console (as long as they don't need pointer/second screening etc) then offers the choice of using one of the other controllers if you want to use them
I don't mind the gamepad as a device, but I don't like how it was mandatory with the system. I think they picked up their game from the Wii, I hated the remote.
I don't think there's any decline, just hit or miss, and it started with the abomination that is the N64 controller. I don't care if it was the first console pad with analogue support, it's poorly designed trash. The gamecube pad was very good (especially the Wavebird).
I don't think there's any decline, just hit or miss, and it started with the abomination that is the N64 controller. I don't care if it was the first console pad with analogue support, it's poorly designed trash. The gamecube pad was very good (especially the Wavebird).
The GamePad is pretty much a standard controller evolved. It even has a name harking back to the older days of controllers. And it does work with all VC titles minus those that need pointer controls. It can even play DS games!
List of gamecube titles that have gamerankings score above 75 (metascore and user score included). Plenty of game with high production values.
Main drawback of gamepad is battery life and the cost of it. If you break the gamepad it's a big problem. Not like breaking controller on other systems.
You really can't compare controls between Galaxy and 3d world. They're completely different games. And for what 3d world is, it controls perfectly.
You're grasping at straws, man.
I enjoy the Gamepad, over 500 hours with it due to Monster Hunter.
There's a few annoyances mostly about battery life and brightness or offscreen play options options- the buttons are nice and the screen responds swiftly and the motion senors are accurate- more so than the new Wii remote plus.
Not having more than one is definately downheartening as far as gameplay options I was hoping for.
There's a few annoyances mostly about battery life and brightness or offscreen play options options- the buttons are nice and the screen responds swiftly and the motion senors are accurate- more so than the new Wii remote plus.
Not having more than one is definately downheartening as far as gameplay options I was hoping for.
IAmRandom31
Banned
The Gamepad is one of the worst standard controllers ever packaged into a console box. Right up there with the Atari Jaguar and such back in the day.
You should see my 6 year old cousin or my 4 year old daughter try and use that thing as a regular controller to play a regular game with. It's pathetic.
Whoever thought that would be a good idea for a regular controller should be fired. Yeah its a cool novelty thing to be able to play your game on the screen or whatever, but I think it would of gone over better if it was a separate peripheral compared to the main controller for the system.
Meh, sure Nintendo will just chalk up the Wii U as a massive mistake and move on soon. Look forward to whatever they do next. Really starting to contemplate if I even will get the Wii U at this point.
You should see my 6 year old cousin or my 4 year old daughter try and use that thing as a regular controller to play a regular game with. It's pathetic.
Whoever thought that would be a good idea for a regular controller should be fired. Yeah its a cool novelty thing to be able to play your game on the screen or whatever, but I think it would of gone over better if it was a separate peripheral compared to the main controller for the system.
Meh, sure Nintendo will just chalk up the Wii U as a massive mistake and move on soon. Look forward to whatever they do next. Really starting to contemplate if I even will get the Wii U at this point.
pinkurocket
Member
Biggest problem with the Gamepad and it's great potential is that it leaves the developers with a choice. Either use the Gamepad as a 2nd screen DS-wise, with some basic menus/maps on the screen and regular buttons controls. This allows the game to be played off-TV, which is a huge selling point of the Gamepad. Either that or take full control of the unique elements like ZombiU, but lose that off-TV play element. Most developers will opt for the first option, leaving the Gamepad's potential untapped.
But then again, I love off-TV play. Only recently have I really been excited to use the Gamepad as a main controller, and that is with Splatoon. The gyro controls seem to bring a level of accuracy never before seen in a regular controller, besides direct pointer controls with the Wiimote (which you prefer is subjective). I wish this gyro element was more of a standard for the Wii U, it would've been awesome if it was in the Pro Controller as well.
But then again, I love off-TV play. Only recently have I really been excited to use the Gamepad as a main controller, and that is with Splatoon. The gyro controls seem to bring a level of accuracy never before seen in a regular controller, besides direct pointer controls with the Wiimote (which you prefer is subjective). I wish this gyro element was more of a standard for the Wii U, it would've been awesome if it was in the Pro Controller as well.
It is in layout, but you could argue so is the Wiimote then, both have motion controls in them, both have analogue sticks and buttons, but the gamepad is a standard controller and the Wiimote isn't?
It's not standard in that you can't use two of them with one system, it's heavier and bigger than every other controller, it's battery life is terrible compared to other controllers, and it working correctly is essential to using the system at all
It's by no means a bad controller, in a lot of ways it's a great controller, but it's also doesn't add that much to most games from a gameplay perspective, and the games where the gamepad is essential are harder to play off screen, which means a lot of the games just use it for things like maps, stuff that isn't really adding much at all
It also makes the Wii U a more expensive console than the market is prepared to pay, had they cut a third off the price and added the pro controller as the main input, a lot more people would see it as value for money
PattonFiend
Banned
The arguments in this thread are some of the worst I have ever heard...
ReBurn
Gold Member
Nobody includes a second controller in the box any more. This ain't just a Nintendo thing.
Hah. Okay so that's funny.
IAmRandom31
Banned
what argument?
wasn't making an argument. was making a statement.
Gamepad is a by god horrible ass CONTROLLER. Too wide, triggers feel horrible, button placement is worse then the Gamecube controllers, bulky, uncomfortable to use for long periods of time. Feels like im dislocating my pointer fingers when trying to hit the shoulder buttons, List goes on. Nintendo markets toward younger kids and then builds a controller that a grown adult is uncomfortable using with much bigger hands, god help you if you have small child hands like my neice or daughter or her friends.
I actually think the controller is one of the main reasons the system is doing so poorly. It's atrocious
CrazyMoonTalk
Member
The Wiimote + Nunchuck has half the buttons of the Wii U gamepad. It also has a vastly different layout for those buttons. It is not at all similar in any way.
PattonFiend
Banned
Going back the the Magnavox Odyssey, I believe it is the best controller I have ever owned with over 3,000 hours on it since December 25th, 2012.
Strange how someone who has never owned something could have such an opinion as you do.
not having to referee my neice and nephew's bickering over who gets the gamepad would be nice. FFS Nintendo!
Remove the screen, gyro, NFC reader and TV controllers from the GamePad and it becomes the Pro Controller. That's what I mean by it being a standard (similar to the norm) controller evolved. You can't say the Wiimote (plus nunchuck) have such an easy transformation to make it like the Classic Controller [Pro], which is why it can't be described as a standard controller. If we say the standard model is two analogue sticks, a d-pad, (diamond formation) face buttons and shoulder buttons the GamePad matches that where the Wiimote (plus nunchuck) don't.
I won't say that I am surprised by the love for the gamecube controller, as I have seen it a lot over the years, but I absolutely hated it. It was too small for my hands. I hated the octagon gate on the c-stick (plus the fact that it was a nub), the different sized face buttons, and the weird Z-bumper. It worked well enough for Nintendo's own titles, but playing multiplat games on it was a pain in the ass.
cantona222
Member
I totally agree. A friend of mine who is not a hard core gamer convinced a seller to sell him a 2nd gamepad out of the box. My friend thought that a 2nd gamepad is needed for multiplayer games. He is going with the traditional thinking that there is one type of controller for every new console which comes in the box. and he needs multiple of these in order to play multiplayer games.
Same here the gamepad is awesome I love it. But the Pro Controller is what I use the most. Feels really comfortable the thumbstick placement is the best of any controller I have ever used. Also the battery life is so long that I often forget where the charger for it is lol
CrazyMoonTalk
Member
This being an issue of discomfort is subjective.
It is identical to the decades old Dualshock layout with a simple flip of the analog sticks. If people can adapt to Asymmetrical Xbox analogs Vs. Symmetrical Sony analogs, I'm sure you can adapt to the inversion on the Wii U controllers. Reminding you guys again, it's identical to the pro controller.
Again, subjective. I find it more comfortable than the standard layout, and over the course of this thread and whenever the gamepad is focused on in other threads there are plenty of other people saying they prefer it as well. Not every design is perfect for everyone.
Children are by and large taking to tablets like flies to honey. It's the topic of many threads here on GAF. If kids are so enthusiastic about their iPads and Samsung Tablets, I'm sure the Wii U controller won't present much of a problem.
For very young children, you have a point.
I know, but the part you and another user highlighted was the framing part of my argument which was used to highlight the meat of my point, which was that even though what you say is correct, it's still not a standard controller (just look how divisive it is even in this thread, some love it, some hate it)
The issue is more than it adds to the cost of the system, and more people don't own a Wii U because they don't see it as value for money, than people who don't own it because they don't like the gamepad
The gamepad is what causes the system to cost as much as it does, in my personal opinion, I think the Wii U would have sold a lot better if it released with the Pro and at a much cheaper price point
IAmRandom31
Banned
Best ever owned? That is a very odd statement. Even if you took away the bulky size and width, it would just be a regular copy/paste controller ... odd statement.
And yeah, not like I need to answer to you or anything but I owned a Wii U back when MH3U launched. Sold the system once I got the mileage out of that game I wanted. And good god, was it horrid playing MH3U on that controller. Felt like I was dislocating my pointer fingers anytime I had to hit the shoulder buttons. HATE that controller, its so bad.
Cool idea. watching Netflix on it or whatever is cool. But everything else is just bad ... in my opinion.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
I could use the pro controller in almost every game on Wii U. I don't get the complaint.
I think a lot of people are placing innovation above execution.
Or even better ... consumers can save another 300$ by not buying a Wii U at all! Which is exactly what they did.
If your new party console revolves around a new controller but only 1 person can actually use it while the rest still have to use the old Wii controllers, you're asking people to buy a new 300$ console which will deliver a next-gen experience upgrade for just one person. For a party console, that doesn't sound very social to me at all.
The discussion is not about supporting last-gen controllers, which is handy but not essential. It's about NOT or only limited supporting your new controller for local multiplayer on your new console.
Interceptor
Banned
The worst thing this generation is that every stupid argument seems to be justified if you slap a "lol Wii U sales" onto it.
The same argument was obviously taboo last gen.
The same argument was obviously taboo last gen.
Like I said, I like both controller for what they are, but they are missing things, that made their previous controllers great and are not utilized in the best way when it comes to software - both from a gameplay perspective (imo - that's debatable) and from a technical perspective (see lag, octagon, incompatibility).
Maybe it controls fine most of the time in the Single Player, but even then I would argue that I often died due to the 8-way controls not being compatible with the Level-design.
In the multiplayer, the controls become unbearable. You constantly pick each other up and throw each other to certain death. And 99% of the time you don't want to do that. If that happens, the controls are far from perfect.
Oh thanks, I got that completely wrong then.
Some interesting points bought up in here.
I did think about getting another GamePad when I first got the Wii U, I didnt know it wasnt possible....until this thread....
On my 360, PS3, PS4...my kids will fight over being ....1st. Mind you all the controllers look exactly the same for each system....they just wanna be.....1st. Sometimes the older one has to be to set the game up.
I can imagine the fighting that would happen with only the Gamepad is considered....1st? Am I right in assuming that it has to be 1st? The few games we played on the Wii U was co op so it wasnt too much of a problem. The competitive games...I can see it being an issue.
If folks want the ultra backwards compatibility, this is the price you pay. Dont be too disappointed in their next home console if it also has BC in mind and has to be built around it. I was shocked I couldnt use the Gamepad with some Wii games. I was ready to throw away my Wii Motes....glad I ddint.
I might agree with the OP if the Game Pad didnt offer some nice features. But in a traditional gaming sense they did drop the ball. I also agree the gamepad shoulda been optional. It coulda have still been mandatory for some games, you would've just had to get it.
Seeing how Nintendo has done since the N64...I would be shocked if they went back to a more traditional controller.
And about the size of it....never really hit me but now I see why my 4 yo daughter always asks us to help her more when playing the Wii U vs my other consoles. I think she just defaults to playing many games off TV...
I think one thing is clear...Nintendo had no idea how to get their message across with the Wii U...I thought it was only MS and the XBO that did that this gen.....
I did think about getting another GamePad when I first got the Wii U, I didnt know it wasnt possible....until this thread....
On my 360, PS3, PS4...my kids will fight over being ....1st. Mind you all the controllers look exactly the same for each system....they just wanna be.....1st. Sometimes the older one has to be to set the game up.
I can imagine the fighting that would happen with only the Gamepad is considered....1st? Am I right in assuming that it has to be 1st? The few games we played on the Wii U was co op so it wasnt too much of a problem. The competitive games...I can see it being an issue.
If folks want the ultra backwards compatibility, this is the price you pay. Dont be too disappointed in their next home console if it also has BC in mind and has to be built around it. I was shocked I couldnt use the Gamepad with some Wii games. I was ready to throw away my Wii Motes....glad I ddint.
I might agree with the OP if the Game Pad didnt offer some nice features. But in a traditional gaming sense they did drop the ball. I also agree the gamepad shoulda been optional. It coulda have still been mandatory for some games, you would've just had to get it.
Seeing how Nintendo has done since the N64...I would be shocked if they went back to a more traditional controller.
And about the size of it....never really hit me but now I see why my 4 yo daughter always asks us to help her more when playing the Wii U vs my other consoles. I think she just defaults to playing many games off TV...
I think one thing is clear...Nintendo had no idea how to get their message across with the Wii U...I thought it was only MS and the XBO that did that this gen.....
No, but it was a lot better at controlling 3D games, try and play Mario 64 with a SNES pad
That is good innovation, bad innovation (often called gimmicks) is stuff like the Wii having motion controls mapped to things where buttons would be better (DKCR making you wave the sticks to thump on the ground)
It was revolutionary. Trigger, analogue stick and rumble pack. Combined with M64 i dont think any console has come out that has leaped as far as SNES -> N64 gen.
CrazyMoonTalk
Member
M°°nblade;159300412 said:
So what do you call local multiplayer focused games like Nintendoland, where the gamepad user has a specific role (Ghost in Luigi's minigame, Mario in the hide and seek game, etc...) that encourages different play approches and communication between the players, and gives a sound reason for one person having a gamepad, and the others not? Passing around the gamepad for different rounds gives each person a chance to play a unique role with/against their friends.
Nintendo understood that local multiplayer is most fun during communication and interaction with the people in the room, and so they devised gameplay modes that encourage this.
There are currently no games where 2 - 4 people having a gamepad would change anything. And games not designed to assign different roles to each participant do not receive an inherent benefit from giving everyone a 2nd screen.
This is a crazy thread. "I hate the gamepad" "Why can't I use 4 gamepads"
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
So the answer to my comment is "but Sony...". Still doesn't change my opinion.
And while I'm thankful there's some form of bc on Wii U, I feel it's poorly done. I don't even bother using it because I have to switch to a "Wii mode", which then requires me to fetch a Wiimote to activate and navigate. The Gamepad is useless at this point, even for games that utilize the Classic Controller.
So my entertainment center houses a whole jumble of different Wii/Wii U controllers, none of which can do everything.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
The gamepad is the single reason why I don't own a WiiU. I played with it twice and thought it was a bad controller. I really want a Mario Kart and to replay Mario 64 but I'm holding out until the next console. Hopefully they'll make it better.
CrazyMoonTalk
Member
If you are experiencing this problem it isn't because of hardware.