15 years is a bold claim, Slayven, and I loved that issue. All-star Superman is the first thing that pops out at me, but I know you said you don't like Morrison or Quitely. Then there's Red Son and Secret Identity.
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How do you make Superman more interesting? Give him more powers.
- Thread starter Escape Goat
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15 years is a bold claim, Slayven, and I loved that issue. All-star Superman is the first thing that pops out at me, but I know you said you don't like Morrison or Quitely. Then there's Red Son and Secret Identity.
All Star is too much of a circle jerk. Generations if my Definite Superman story.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Kamehameha?
Whatever happened to Truth, Justice and the American Way? is a favorite of mine. Red Son, All-Star, Earth One, Secret Origins, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Speaking of Lex, his views on Superman seem to echo those of real life Superman detractors. "The perfect god who can do no wrong."
Poodlestrike
Banned
Does Kingdom Come count as a Superman story? It's a little too old to fit in the 15 year window, but it's some seriously top-tier stuff.
Schweinehund
Member
I see it more as a DC universe story since it was at one time considered the end of DC, but Supes is the face of DC, which was pretty much cemented in Final Crisis with him being the ultimate story (at least in Morrison's eyes).
Sibersk Esto
Banned
He is a pretty important, almost central part of the narrative, but I'd like to say it's more of a dc universe story than just superman.
MisterHero
Super Member
Kingdom Come is a Superman story. It was directly inspired by an earlier story asking whether or not Superman was good or bad for humanity.
Anyways my favorite changes for the character happened a few years ago. He became responsible for General Zod's son and he served in Krypton's military after he restored Kandor.
Sadly, Chris got sent back to the Phantom Zone and Kandor got blowed up. Then the entire universe got rebooted. Thanks DC.
Anyways my favorite changes for the character happened a few years ago. He became responsible for General Zod's son and he served in Krypton's military after he restored Kandor.
Sadly, Chris got sent back to the Phantom Zone and Kandor got blowed up. Then the entire universe got rebooted. Thanks DC.
BKatastrophe
Member
Well I'll have to watch Throne of Atlantis then.
I'll get right on Unchained then. Keep in mind, I'm not disrespecting Supes in anyway by only looking for an action title, because I have an appreciation for his depth as a character. Superman The Animated Series and Superman vs. the Elite really opened up my eyes to Superman as a character, although Justice League and Justice League Unlimited nudged me in that direction. Surprisingly enough, I was in the camp of "Eh Superman is kinda boring as a character" until I saw Man of Steel, which I thought did a good job of making him more relatable and human by having him struggle with his powers at an early age.
Anyways, all that considered, Superman delivers some sick action. When I go to pick up my weekly pulls, I'll snag a copy of Unchained. It got released recently as a collection, right?
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Up, Up, and Away is a really good one that people seemed to like when it came out but doesn't ever get mentioned anymore.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Is that the storyline where Superman got his powers back after 52? Because I really liked that story. It was like Superman Returns done right.
Renato Guedes drew some of my favorite Superman art ever, but it came a year after Birthright, lead up to New Krypton, a year before Action Annual #10, and Secret Origin shortly thereafter... the rapid reshuffling of the origin meant this arc tended to get lost since it was less event-heavy and Johns quasi-scrapped his world-building Metropolis efforts when he left / rebooted with Secret Origin (which, of course, got rebooted by the New 52).
pulga
Banned
Not only did you miss the point of the post (Solo character stories vs. Superman stories... which I'll admit having GOTG in there murks this point up a bit), but the mere existence of All-Star Superman grabs your post by the neck and hurls it into the scorching flames of the sun.
Also, let's not forget Red Son.
Superman Secret Identity is pretty strong.
evilromero
Member
That would be an excellent super power.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It's mainly due to Thor not really having much to make him stand out prior to that. He was a strong guy, but not the strongest there is, he could fly, but he was a slightly stronger Carol Danvers as he was presented.
So he was a generic strong guy with a generic set of powers who talked funny.
BKatastrophe
Member
Hey now, Superman Returns had what is arguably one of the best portrayals of Lex Luthor (based Kevin Spacey) on screen. I know you were referring to the concept, but I wanted an excuse to make this very true statement.
Shamrock7r
Member
Spacey wins by default because there has never been a Good luthor portrayal. His acting was fine but his luthor character is godawful.
BKatastrophe
Member
Michael Rosenbaum in Smallville? Clancy Brown in Superman The Animated Series, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited? There are arguments to be made.
Shamrock7r
Member
Thought you just meant big screen. In that case the animated series is the only great portrayal. Smallville luthor is the closest live action portrayal to being good but they even messed that one up over time.
KidGalactus
Member
Somebody kick Geoff Johns into a pit already.
Amakusa
Member
Yes. It's new to Superman but Supergirl has had it for a while.
Schweinehund
Member
evrytim I see Johns hater its one of these few things:
1. They don't like how he writes Batman
2. They think he pushed New 52 (he didn't)
3. He likes Hal/Barry over Kyle/Wally
RoninChaos
Member
I didn't know Johns was writing this. I may pick it up. How is the rest of the action comics run? I have the first two trades but that's it.
And I can't stand Romita Jrs art. Everything is boxy and blocky.
And I can't stand Romita Jrs art. Everything is boxy and blocky.
flaxknuckles
Member
Romita Jr, Ramos, Greg Land, and Quietly all need to be thrown into the sun. And they can take Bendis & Scott Lobdell with them.
Action is mostly good. Your mileage will vary with Morrison's run, but once Pak takes over, it's great (though it gets tied up in a dumb Doomsday crossover thing).
Superman has been pretty bad until now. Start at Johns and don't look back.
Mr. Poolman
Member
Harsh.
Later I've found myself disliking the overly muscular heroic physique, like Jim Lee for example.
I find this quite "retro" as it reminds me of the 90s
While I've been more drawn to realistic anatomy on comic books, like Jerome Opeña on Avengers .
When I was younger I really disliked Romita Jr's art, as it looked way too simple for my tastes, but lately, I've come to realize how interesting it is, his work on composition and storytelling is really good.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Fuck all Y'all dissing Romita Jr. I love that mans Art in the 80's-90's.
I'll admit his recent work on Captain America was way to Blocky but damn his older stuff especially on Xmen was amazing.
I'll admit his recent work on Captain America was way to Blocky but damn his older stuff especially on Xmen was amazing.
flaxknuckles
Member
I'll read it ASAit's not $5
Not all of Jr's art is bad. I liked it when he drew The Amazing Spiderman, years ago. But there are characters he shouldn't draw ever. I mean, have you seen him draw Thor?
Anyway, I don't care if he draws badly a shitty Marvel comic but he should stay away from anything DC, though.
pulga
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
A lot of the Silver Age weirdness was apparently the result of his editor using Supes as an outlet for his own psychological issues. The miniature Superman being a really, really obvious allegory for his feeling of being replaced by his child, and his resentment thereof.
Took an early lunch break to read. Jury's still out, for me.
Johns is doing that aggressive flag-planting thing that I've kinda come to dislike about his writing. I don't necessarily believe in sacred cows but the general rule of comic book writing- especially if you know you're not going to have a long run on the book- is return the toys to the box when you're done... unless changing the status quo is justified by a story that makes it worth it. So far, most of the dramatic changes in this story seem more for the sake of change than quality or nature of the story itself. He may pull something great out of it, so I'm not writing him off yet, but this issue didn't justify the changes.
The major changes to me:
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Colossal failure - An entire planet and race of sentient beings died in part because of Superman's actions... this appears to have no effect or impact on him beyond the grief it causes Ulysses.
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Loss of the armor - We were given something to justify the mechanics of the costume and it was taken away why?
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New power - Not sure why the same couldn't have been done with heat vision, but this is probably will have the least impact.
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Jimmy giving up his wealth - I get you might not like it, but rather than unwriting it, I'd rather he actually try to do something interesting with it.
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Revealing the secret to Jimmy - Definitely not earned... I'm willing to wait and see if becomes worth it, but I almost feel like Johns hasn't been reading Superman considering how many people already know his secret at this point.
Pretty much the kind of changes that a typically editor will ask you to be cautious about unless you're Geoff Johns. I feel like Johns has lost his talent for living in the world as written and organically moving it where he wants to go (Flash, Lantern, JSA) and now just comes in like a wrecking ball to institute whatever he likes. Maybe these will all pay off, but it's a lot of changes in one issue... worth looking at for the newsworthiness but the story isn't quite there for me, yet.
This right here? This is something I would really focus in on if I was ever tasked with writing a definitive Superman origin story. Of course, I would've handled it completely differently than they did in MoS. Primarily, I wanted them to show how much Clark cares about other people rather than telling us via Lois all the time.
I wrote a scene for my imaginary new origin once where Pa Kent hears young Clark crying in his room and comes in to find Clark in the fetal position on his bed because his super hearing has activated and he can hear everything that's happening in the whole county. He knows who is in trouble, how they're in trouble and where they are, but he's just a little kid. He has no clue how to help them. And that is breaking his heart.
Of course, Pa just gets his coat and is like, "I'll get the truck. Let's go find them."
And so it begins...
KidGalactus
Member
evrytim I see Johns hater its one of these few things:
1. They don't like how he writes Batman
2. They think he pushed New 52 (he didn't)
3. He likes Hal/Barry over Kyle/Wally
He writes turgid, melodramatic horse shit is why I don't like him.
BKatastrophe
Member
I personally feel one of the reasons why people pick Batman over Superman is because they find it easier to relate to him. Now yes, I understand he's a billionaire, but it's the human that he is that people relate to. He had something bad happen, he grieved, then decided to do something. People like him because they see him as believable, regardless of whether he is or isn't, because of the fact that he's a pure human being. He's shown to be vulnerable, yet strong, and that allows people to get behind him.
People have a hard time relating to Superman because he's not human. He looks like a human and his anatomical structure is the same, but he's not human. He doesn't openly grieve and brood (very popular tropes these days) about the death of his race and all that. He never comes off as vulnerable, just strong. I think people have a hard time dealing with it and I don't think a lot of the more popular stories make Superman human enough for people to get behind him. I thought MoS did a good job with it, which helped me like and get more interested in Superman, as strange as that may sound to some. Superman has great stories where he represents an ideal or does big cool superhero stuff, but I think it's hard for some to grasp that when he's not presented as "human" enough.
I'm not trying to shit on Superman here and I'm sorry if I come off as ignorant. I'm sure there are stories that apply to this that I'm not aware of, but I do hope my point makes at least some sense and holds some weight.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Basically what you're saying is that Val-Zod is much more relatable.
BKatastrophe
Member
He's Earth 2 Superman, right? I haven't read any Earth 2 stuff, though what I've heard of his character does seem interesting.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Correct and he's great. Hell Earth 2 period is great. Earth 2 is basically the reboot DC wanted to do in my eyes.
BKatastrophe
Member
I've thought about trying it out, but it's never really piqued my interest. I might look into it some time.
MOS Superman is pretty much the Marvel version of Superman (the dark brooding stuff that every Superhero has these days it seems)
If you make him like that then it removes that one quality about him that separates him from the other heroes.
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