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How does the PS3 handle resolution scaling?
- Thread starter AltogetherAndrews
- Start date
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Mine scales down to 480p when it gets a 720p signal. My Panasonic doesn't do shit but have a spazm.
Beer Monkey
Member
Beatbox said:
SC 2 was letterboxed in 720p because they could keep the framerate up at 960x720 but not at 1280x720.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Sjoerd said:
Would explain the performance difference too.
Manp
Member
Luckyman said:
i still don't get what you're saying
a game to outoput at 480i/p must render natively at 480p (unless you use field rendering) or be rendered at an highter/lower resolution and then scaled down/up (the same goes for 720p and 1080i/p)
as far as i understand (reading this and the other thread) PS3 can't upscale or downscale games so a game, to output at a certain resolution, must render at that same resolution
games that are not 1080p native can't outpout at 1080i, at least that what happen with Resistance (at least that's what i understood)
still i don't get why you're talking about Dead Rising
gollumsluvslave
Member
Brief summary - there is some stuff in the launch thread too.
There are a few slightly different issues here.
In order of concern:-
1. Old HDTV's that don't support 720p *period* will drop down to 480p. Both component and HDMI (verified by Vincey37)
2. Resistance at least notifies the user of this, where Gundam does not (worse IMO)
Bebpo
3. If your XMB is set to 1080i, but the game does not support it (like Resistance) then it will not detect 720p if it is supported and drop to 480p, forcing a manual change of the XMB setting.
4. If your HDTV can accept 720p, but not natively, you will be relying on the quality of the scaler in your TV, and some algorithms are better than others...
Obviously number 1 is the biggest issue for poor folks with a 1080i TV that does not accept 720p at all - games like Resistance will only be available in 720p.
I think the issue with Gundam not notifying that 480p is being used is far worse.
I imagine that issue 3 will be a royal pain in the ass for people who want to set XMB to 1080i and forget about it, but that have to manually reset everytime they play a game that only supports 720p.
These issues should be addressed very quickly by Sony IMHO, especially before people start making apples and oranges comparisons of 480p PS3 games to 720p/1080i 360 games - could be bad for PR.
There are a few slightly different issues here.
In order of concern:-
1. Old HDTV's that don't support 720p *period* will drop down to 480p. Both component and HDMI (verified by Vincey37)
2. Resistance at least notifies the user of this, where Gundam does not (worse IMO)
Bebpo
3. If your XMB is set to 1080i, but the game does not support it (like Resistance) then it will not detect 720p if it is supported and drop to 480p, forcing a manual change of the XMB setting.
4. If your HDTV can accept 720p, but not natively, you will be relying on the quality of the scaler in your TV, and some algorithms are better than others...
Obviously number 1 is the biggest issue for poor folks with a 1080i TV that does not accept 720p at all - games like Resistance will only be available in 720p.
I think the issue with Gundam not notifying that 480p is being used is far worse.
I imagine that issue 3 will be a royal pain in the ass for people who want to set XMB to 1080i and forget about it, but that have to manually reset everytime they play a game that only supports 720p.
These issues should be addressed very quickly by Sony IMHO, especially before people start making apples and oranges comparisons of 480p PS3 games to 720p/1080i 360 games - could be bad for PR.
Here's what we know: Currently, a 720p game can't be upscaled to 1080i.Manp said:or they are rendered at a given resolution according to the output resolution, or they are scaled
reading the other thread it seems that if a game is 720p native (like Resistance) it can't output at 1080i/p
We don't know if the PS3 is downscaling games (example: 1080p to 720p) or if it is just rendering in the lower resolution.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Vincey37 said:
My Sony 30" CRT HDTV says in the literature that came with the set that it upscales 720p images to 1080i. If I output my XMB or games on 720p, my set should just upscale them to 1080i. Right?
Beer Monkey
Member
Manp said:
If this is the case we may be looking at a lot more titles than Resistance, Gundam, and Genji.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Why would it do that? It would just drop to 720p, it's native resolution. There are no TVs on the market that would accept 1080p that wouldn't accept 720p.Luckyman said:
You probably have the same TV that I do (or better). Don't worry, 720p looks great on it, in my opinion even better than 1080i when displaying picture with low amounts of AA (which is anything below 16x AA)DenogginizerOS said:
Oh that just sucks... my TV supports up to 1080i, but has a (I think) great scaler... so if I want to play Resistance, I need to change the XMB to 720p, but if I play another game that supports 1080p (ie. Marvel Ultimate Alliance) and get the benefits of downscaling 1080p to 1080i, then I will need to change the XMB to 1080i each time? And what about when I want to play a Blu-Ray movie?
Stench said:
Of course not. That sucks. I was referring to sets that can do 720p. If you had the video settings set to 1080i and wanted to play Resistance, you would have to change the settings on the PS3 to accommodate. That's the annoyance I was referring to.
For those with sets that can't display 720p, it's utter crap.
Patrickula
Member
This is crazy awful. I hope the gaming media pick this up before 1080i only gamers buy the thing and end up disappointed. Though I guess if they're actually getting one, they're already in line anyway, hunh?
Crazymoogle
Member
Geoff9920 said:
Yeah. In the early generation of CRT HDTVs, including a proper scaler was either too expensive or too much trouble for what it was worth. Of course, those models tended to have other issues, like an an inability to have Y/Pb/Pr and Y/Cb/Cr on the same input. Fixed Pixel displays wouldn't have this particular problem though I think I remember a few that had the opposite (ie: 720p, not 1080i).
Anybody with a reasonably current HD CRT set is fine as their TV is just going to scale 720p to 1080i anyway. Plasma/LCD/DLP are all set.
I've said it before the B3D and jstevenson posts... this smells really badly of coming firmware fixes. I think the only thing stopping 1 new firmware a week is the QA time needed to pass it.
Beatbox said:
AFAIK, SC2 720p is "720p"...except that they're only rendering the central 4:3 chunk. It's forced cross-letterboxing, if you will. Saves on rendering to improve performance, but still basically a hack.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Xbox 360 has a programmable analog video scaler (a not badly designed chip either from people say) that takes the output from the frame-buffer and scales it to the proper display resolution according to how you set the TV settings in the Xbox 360's Dashboard.
This chip was designed by engineers inside the well let's say ex-WebTV unit who arrived at Microsoft after quite a bit of years of industry experience: some of those engineer, that once formed the group Cagent, are people who worked on the chip design of the M2 console (twin PowerPC CPU's, custom GPU code-named Bulldog, etc...). Competent people.
I suspect that PLAYSTATION 3, at least when outputting on HDMI (which is a digital connection), assumes that there will be a competent video scaler on the other end of the connection.
This chip was designed by engineers inside the well let's say ex-WebTV unit who arrived at Microsoft after quite a bit of years of industry experience: some of those engineer, that once formed the group Cagent, are people who worked on the chip design of the M2 console (twin PowerPC CPU's, custom GPU code-named Bulldog, etc...). Competent people.
I suspect that PLAYSTATION 3, at least when outputting on HDMI (which is a digital connection), assumes that there will be a competent video scaler on the other end of the connection.
Crazymoogle
Member
ghostmind said:
Well, (and this is just informed conjecture) ideally you would set the custom resolution option on the PS3 to let it know you're okay with 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, so that regardless of XMB, the game would load okay. But it's not totally clear to me as to how you set the preferred resolution in that mode.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Marconelly said:
My TV does some warping at the bottom when I have my Xbox 360 set to 720p. I just leave my Xbox set on 1080i output and don't even pay attention to whether or not the game I am playing supports 1080i or not. Everything looks fine to me.
Example of warping when I set my X360 to 720p:
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
//////////////////////////////
M3Freak
Banned
I'm kind of confused. Someone higher up said that if the t.v. is set to 1080i and the games runs at 720p, the game will drop to 480p. Later in the thread people are saying that if the t.v. can accept 720p signals (even if the native resolution is 1080i/p), then setting the XMB to 1080i/p will just make the game run at its native resolution, and the t.v. will take care of the rest (i.e. upscale to 1080i/p).
My set is a native 1080p display - everything is upscaled to 1080p. But, it only has 1080i inputs. I'm goinig to be setting the XMB to 1080i. So, when I pop in Resistance, what's going to happen:
1. PS3 1080i < Resistance 720p > PS3 480p > TV 1080p *
2. PS3 1080i < Resistance 720p > PS3 720p > TV 1080p *
* Linux bash console redirection syntax. Hopefully that makes sense!
(1) would be absolutely horrible. I'd end up with a puke fest of a picture.
(2) would be just great (and is what I expected the PS3 would do).
I gather just setting the XMB to 720p would avoid this entire mess. I'd have to change the res in the XMB every time a game required it - what a pain that would be.
My set is a native 1080p display - everything is upscaled to 1080p. But, it only has 1080i inputs. I'm goinig to be setting the XMB to 1080i. So, when I pop in Resistance, what's going to happen:
1. PS3 1080i < Resistance 720p > PS3 480p > TV 1080p *
2. PS3 1080i < Resistance 720p > PS3 720p > TV 1080p *
* Linux bash console redirection syntax. Hopefully that makes sense!
(1) would be absolutely horrible. I'd end up with a puke fest of a picture.
(2) would be just great (and is what I expected the PS3 would do).
I gather just setting the XMB to 720p would avoid this entire mess. I'd have to change the res in the XMB every time a game required it - what a pain that would be.
On my 1080p set (PS3 connected via HDMI) it goes like this when the XMB is set at 1080p :
Resistance drops the resolution of the PS3 down to 720p automatically when I start the game - no need to jump into the XMB to change to 720p beforehand.
Bu-ray movies playback at 1080p without a problem (as expected - looks astounding btw).
Haven't been able to test other games unfortunately (probably will pick some up later in the week), but I suspect it'll work the same way out of the box.
Resistance drops the resolution of the PS3 down to 720p automatically when I start the game - no need to jump into the XMB to change to 720p beforehand.
Bu-ray movies playback at 1080p without a problem (as expected - looks astounding btw).
Haven't been able to test other games unfortunately (probably will pick some up later in the week), but I suspect it'll work the same way out of the box.
Crazymoogle
Member
M3Freak said:
This is what happens based on the documentation and what Eek is saying. Your set can interpret 720p, so it will receive a 720p signal, at which point your TV scales it to 1080p. Done. With any luck 1080i never comes into the scaling equation.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
What TV do you have exactly? 30HS420? There's a very comprehensive service menu on that TV that would probably allow you to correct the 720p resolution display. Before you do that however, make sure to test some other 720p source to determine if it's the TV that's problem for sure.DenogginizerOS said:
Crazymoogle
Member
Bebpo said:
Hmm. What TV do you have Bebpo? I was under the impression that the system tries to set 720p and resorts to desperate measures when it fails. Are you saying your set goes for desperate measures even if the TV scaler supports 720p?
Mefisutoferesu
Member
Wait, so according to the interview they just bungled the options and defaults? Then why is ERP saying devs don't have access to the scaler? What did I miss?
As frustrating as this makes me, its kinda nice to be right for once. 
They must be rendering the game at the resolution that is selected, hence it only allows for down-rezing of titles...no wonder they want 1080p so badly, they can't offer upconverting...
On another note, this whole ommision from Sony is just one big WTF...MS already showed them how to get this done with little to no problems...stupid.
They must be rendering the game at the resolution that is selected, hence it only allows for down-rezing of titles...no wonder they want 1080p so badly, they can't offer upconverting...On another note, this whole ommision from Sony is just one big WTF...MS already showed them how to get this done with little to no problems...stupid.
Beer Monkey
Member
Onix said:
Sending 1080i to his CRT TV that displays 1080i is going to create artifacts? No.
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