Support NeoGAF

[dekline]

joo wanna play gains?

 

[Ridley327]

Congrats, very witty comment. Doesn't answer my question though.

There's nothing witty in that comment; it's just a straight fact.

Are you suggesting that someone not liking Scarface means that all those films are off the table, as well?

 

[GillianSeed79]

Those are all vastly better movies.

Scarface is liked less due to its quality as a movie, and more because

a) it's a template for a specific style of hip-hop.
b) it's a template for a specific chapter in a video game series.

It's a movie who's references so saturated popular culture in the mid-90s that for lots of people watching it for the first time, it's a nonstop run of "Hey, I recognize this!" and that helps paper over a lot of the problems with the film.

It's also sorta like "My Buddy's First Gangster Epic." It's got the training wheels on, so far as drama is concerned. It's got the shape and the pace of something that's supposed to be meaningful, but it's all sugar and empty carbs inside. I can see enjoying the hell out of it if you haven't really seen what else that specific genre has to offer, but once stuff like Goodfellas, Godfather, Once Upon a Time in America, DePalma's own Carlito's Way (which - I get the sense was a makeup for Scarface becoming the mess it became) get some run - I don't know how a rewatch of Scarface holds up beyond the initial "Hey! I recognize that!" pleasures, most of which wear off after a set amount of time.

I don't HATE Scarface. It's disappointing. I don't even hate the weird mall-culture, almost ICP-esque fetishizing of the film's imagery. I get it. I remember when Scarface posters first started seriously becoming a "thing" along with Bob Marley album covers and shitty 2pac posters with bad poetry plastered on it. It made sense.

But as a film - it's not very good.

I'm not saying that can't be entertaining. I am saying that being a 3 hour movie with no variations in tone or character across the full runtime does make it tedious as hell.

It's not a "hipster" thing. Jesus. It's a movies thing.

It's not a very good movie. Lots of people don't like it. This isn't surprising.

Wow. This explains every reason why I don't like Scarface.

 

[CharminUltra]

I like Scarface. Enough to buy it on DVD or Blu Ray even, but to be honest I'm not sure I would include it in a top 10 gangster movie of all time.

 

[Jay Sosa]

nvm

 

[Blader]

It should also be noted that Brian De Palma sucks.

Spoiler

ok, Mission Impossible is cool, but everything else he's done blows

 

[Ridley327]

It should also be noted that Brian De Palma sucks.

Spoiler

ok, Mission Impossible is cool, but everything else he's done blows

As a massive fan of Phantom of the Paradise, I will oppose you!

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I really like

The Untouchables
Carlito's Way
Blow Out
Raising Cain

But dude is maybe the most uneven filmmaker of the last 30 years. Even moreso than Carpenter.

There was a thread about that very topic just a little bit ago, if I remember. But it ended up being the 5237th topic about Christopher Nolan by the end.

 

[DC R1D3R]

Fuckhinng Cockrrroaches!

*Sniiiiiiif!

 

[Despera]

Awesome poster.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

It's way "cooler" than it is "good," I'd say.

Last time this came up I think I said it's a 6 that gets two bonus points for being an iconic classic, thus 8/10 overall.

Also, where's the "I don't understand why people don't understand why people don't like things" thread?

 

[Coconut]

I hate it because culturally it's become a movie that represents something "positive". When its a movie about delusions of success and failure. No one wants to be Macbeth why would you want to be Tony Montana they are kind of similar.

 

[Bazza]

Pacinos best.

Prefer Carlito's Way but Scarface is great.

 

[Commander Jameson]

I love that movie and I must have watched at least 10 times. It's an interesting storyline; Tony Montana is a very charismatic self-made character who started from nothing but ends up sabotaging himself due to his own greed. I love how everything feels like a snapshot of that particular era; the sets, the super over the top houses. Some people don't like the soundtrack but I like the synth heavy sounds.

Isn't he sabotaged by his own weakness when failing to kill the children in the car? It is that one failure to be as ruthless as he had previously demonstrated that led directly to his empire being destroyed and his own death.

 

[TheKaeptain]

It should also be noted that Brian De Palma sucks.

Spoiler

ok, Mission Impossible is cool, but everything else he's done blows

You leave now!

 

[VanquishUK]

"Too many F-bombs" is a pretty sad reason to hate a movie.

 

[braves01]

I own this shirt and have worn it in public. What say you Scarface haters?

 

[CountAntonius]

I hadn't watched scarface till my mid 20's. I was annoyed by the people who idolized the character and the people who did the poor impersonations. When I actually saw the movie i loved it and think all those people trying to be him kinda miss the entire point of the movie.

 

[FStop7]

Scarface is pretty good. It's weak next to the other great, modern gangster film institutions like the Godfather or Goodfellas, but on its own it's a very good film. I don't like Brian De Palma that much but he made a legit classic.

 

[Dyno]

There is a lot in here I want to contest so I'm going to break up this paragraph a bit.

The movie is about the cocaine trade.

It's about Tony Montana; a criminal who rises to the top. His first job is as a common thug and murderer. Drugs come in eventually because that is how criminals in Miami were able to amass untold millions.

You reference it SPECIFICALLY in the 2nd to last sentence, and obliquely in the third (grit & excess).

In the second sentence I used the word menace. Miami was a violent city in the 80's. Grit and excess again was used to describe the city. You tied them to specifically to the drug trade. Probably because it suited your argument.

It's about a guy who becomes a drug kingpin. It's not an accurate depiction of either the city, or the drug trade going on within it.

It's surprising that you hold this against Scarface. I don't think The Untouchables had an accurate depiction of the illegal booze trade. I think it had the same level of detail as Scarface. That level of detail is typical of the times. Insightful, docu-drama type movies are a more recent invention.

It's a neon cartoon about a coked-out Bugs Bunny who goes to seed and wants to fuck his sister. There's no love for the city, it's inhabitants, or the characters in the movie. The whole thing is sneering and contemptuous.

What you call a cartoon, millions call style. What you call a coked-out Bugs Bunny, millions call a larger-than-life character. When it comes to love for the city I think the cinematographer did a fine job indeed!

It's not a very good movie. Lots of people don't like it. This isn't surprising.

And to that I will add this fact: you are in the minority of opinion on this one. Scarface is considered a classic, an icon of the 80's, and people have more than one reason for saying so. All of our discussion about the movie needs to be tempered with that reality.

 

[kamorra]

There's nothing witty in that comment; it's just a straight fact.

Are you suggesting that someone not liking Scarface means that all those films are off the table, as well?

No, I'm not and I'm not even sure how you get that from my original question or why you are trying to teach me the obvious. So, do you have an answer like others in this thread or do you want keep playing this silly game?

 

[radios shipping overview]

While we're on the subject: Walt from Breaking Bad is becoming another Tony Montana. The show makes it plain that he's a prideful, manipulative little man who gets lucky a lot, but a lot of people are are already (or still?) treating him like an antihero.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I think Scarface is pretty great but yeah, it's probably overrated. Some people treat it like it's the greatest piece of fiction ever created.

 

[Ovid]

I liked the movie. The only reason why I decided to watch it was because of GTA III.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I own this shirt and have worn it in public. What say you Scarface haters?

 

[Ridley327]

No, I'm not and I'm not even sure how you get that from my original question or why you are trying to teach me the obvious. So, do you have an answer like others in this thread or do you want keep playing this silly game?

Did you miss me co-signing Bobby's post, or something?

It's a THREE HOUR LONG, badly paced, poorly acted, over-the-top cartoon that nearly everyone who watched still misunderstood somehow.

There is also zero arc for Tony. Nothing about him as a person ever changes, up until he gets his chest removed.

If it were 90min long? Maybe. But its 3 hours of the same dull shit.

Moroder's score is pretty great, though. Can't fault that. And if it hadn't existed, hip hop would never have been the same.

for a 3 hour gangster epic to have it's major positives be musical in nature (one completely unintentionally) is not a great sign of filmic quality

These are my thoughts. I'd also add that even though it's nearly 3 hours long, it feels twice as long because of the pacing being so lethargic.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What you call a cartoon, millions call style.

"Cartoonish" is a style.

And my liking of the Untouchables has nothing to do with it's ability to "capture the mood of an era" in the way you're claiming Scarface does. The Untouchables is just as much a comic strip as Scarface is, really. It's also got a much tighter script (and lets not even get into how much better the acting is). I know millions of people like Scarface. That's cool. Millions of people think Larry the Cable Guy is a fucking comedian. They can have that. He is, technically. But just because millions of people laugh at him doesn't mean I think he's good at being a comedian. And just because someone can buy Scarface bedsheets doesn't mean the movie being merchandised is particularly good. That's a weird line to take, I think.

Further: Trying to separate out the drugs from this movie seems an even weirder tack. I don't know why you keep pursuing that line of argument. The weirdest argument, though, is the idea that insightful movies are a recent invention. To that, I basically would suggest you watch a few more older movies. The late 90s/early 2000s didn't invent either documentary or insight.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to dislike the movie. The original question by the OP seemed to be wondering how people COULD dislike it. I'm explaining how. You can understand something without agreeing with it. I understand WHY people like Scarface even if I disagree. Their reasons are still valid. I just don't hold to that viewpoint myself.

 

[kamorra]

Did you miss me co-signing Bobby's post, or something?

My question wasn't about Scarface. It's quite obvious that you just want to mess around a little.

 

[DominoKid]

Scarface is amazing. Firmly planted in my top 5 favorite movies.

 

[SystemShock2]

I used to love it when I was in 7th grade which was also the time I was playing Vice City. I still like it now, but the story is pretty simplistic, so the characters have to carry the movie, but I don't find Tony to be too interesting.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

People hate Scarface?

I fuck dem cacaroaches!

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

It should also be noted that Brian De Palma sucks.

Spoiler

ok, Mission Impossible is cool, but everything else he's done blows

Oh hell no, you fucked up.

 

[Anth0ny]

People hate Scarface?

 

[lil smoke]

I don't know what's worse, people hating Scarface, or a bunch of geeks breaking it down analyzing it like Shakespeare.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah. Fuck thinking.

 

[Ellasman]

I've never heard of anyone hating it.

 

[flonty]

How can people hate Scarface?
This movie is a masterpiece. It inspired most of GTA Vice City

The world is yours

 

[Coconut]

How can people hate Scarface?
This movie is a masterpiece. It inspired most of GTA Vice City

The world is yours

That should tell you something about the quality of writing in the movie, when most it's plot can easily translate over to a PS2 era game.

 

[OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather]

That should tell you something about the quality of writing in the movie, when most it's plot can easily translate over to a PS2 era game.

Yeah, like The Godfather.

 

[brianjones]

Oh hell no, you fucked up.

de niro is such a bad al capone

untouchables has aged real bad

scarface is a ton of fun though, love it

 

[Ridley327]

My question wasn't about Scarface. It's quite obvious that you just want to mess around a little.

I've only seen The Godfather of those films you mentioned in its entirety.

 

[MonkeyKing]

Always thought it was a lousy film with literally laugh out loud bad dialog. The love this film gets and the idolization of Tony Montana just baffles me.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

de niro is such a bad al capone

untouchables has aged real bad

scarface is a ton of fun though, love it

En-tusiasms...


En-tusiasms...........

 

[Discotheque]

It seems like this place can't appreciate style > substance movies unless Ryan Gosling's goofy ass is in it

If you don't like the movie you have to at least recognize that it was shot quite well. De Palma always was an interesting visual director

 

[Toparaman]

Scarface is a great movie. I don't think it gets mentioned enough how Tony gets more and more miserable the higher he climbs to the top. It's done with enough subtlety that you don't feel like you're being preached to or moralized.

Also, love the dated synth soundtrack. It's an essential part of what makes the film so effective. It adds to the low-budget horror film vibe, which is really what sets Scarface apart from other gangster classics like Godfather, Goodfellas, etc. It's a bleak, nihilistic film from the very beginning.

It seems like this place can't appreciate style > substance movies unless Ryan Gosling's goofy ass is in it

If you don't like the movie you have to at least recognize that it was shot quite well. De Palma always was an interesting visual director

Yeah, that's the other thing that puts it above just being another vulgar violent crime movie. The chainsaw scene is so excellently shot. Your imagination fills in the blanks. A truly horrific scene.

 

[Spectral Entity]

Good movie, pretty fun game.

I thought it was cool how the game featured a Countach with gullwing doors and a DeLorean with scissor doors.

 

[PrimaNocta]

Pretty crappy movie. The characters, story, and dialog exchange are all terrible.

note to self: Never trust abstract aliens opinion on movies every again!

 

[PS3GamerKyle]

Hate the movie.

Horrible characters, story development; just not for me.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

I' always though that people who idolize Tony haven't seen the end of the movie. He turned into an unlikable piece of shit by the end of it. The first 90 minutes or so were hilarious, though. Some of the funniest incidental dialog in film happens in that movie.

 

[Riposte]

every black man want to do that


Patrice O'Neal's synopsis is so good.