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[pj]

I like hard games, and I don't mind failing when I know it's because I suck. But I have a serious problem with losing when the game cheats.

Dai senryaku VII: Minor one, but they placed an enemy infantry troop (who are able to capture large amounts of facilities/cities in a short period of time) in an area that, had the rules been followed, they couldn't possibly have gotten to without me knowing.

Outrun 2: Mission stage 20. Jesus christ. I'll list the problems I have with this stage:
1. 30 routes long (about 32 minutes)
2. rubberband ai means that no matter how well you drive, the first 28 routes mean nothing.
3. The car you're competing against doesn't have to deal with traffic when you're in the lead because the traffic disappears when you pass it.
4. The last route is very narrow and has way too much traffic
5. When the other car is ahead of you, if it hits a car, which it will since it's completely incapable of driving, it doesn't affect the car the way it affects yours. If you so much as tap a semi in the rear, it will drop your speed to practically 0mph, your competitor does the same and he just slows down to the speed of the semi.

I'm sure I've experienced others, but I'm too pissed to remember because I just lost that race for the FOURTH time by less than .1 seconds. What are some other examples of cheating games?

 

[ElyrionX]

NFS: Underground

Whenever, I'm in the lead, the AI seems to catch up so quickly. It's too easy to get wiped out by oncoming traffic. And when the AI is in the lead, it's freaking hard to catch up because the AI doesn't have to deal with the traffic.

 

[DopeyFish]

burnout 3

Say the opponent gains the lead, and then you start driving stellar, like stellar as in you're NEVER off of boost... taking every turn perfect, you're in a faster car yet he seems to gain so much more of a lead that it's retarded. You literally have to save your boost and use it at the right time or the rubberband AI absolutely slingshots the opponents to retarded speeds :<

 

[VALIS]

Absolutely Burnout 3. Basically, all that matters is the last 1/8th of the race. If you're behind you can never catch up and if you're ahead the CPU will always catch up. Major flaw in an otherwise great game.

 

[Bebpo]

They should just ditch rubberband AI forever. I mean if you're driving really good it's fun to start lapping the opponents.

 

[Speevy]

F-Zero GX, first to worst in 1/10 of a second.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Wipeout Fusion and Pure's AI = top notch.

 

[Alex Anderson]

Computer ballcarriers in Tecmo Super Bowl NES (my favorite gaaaaaaame) are capable of running in 1/16th directions. I always found this pretty cheap seeing that the NES D-pad is only 8-way directional input.

 

[CajoleJuice]

F-Zero GX isn't unfair. It's just unbelievably brutal. You have to run a perfect race, and then some.

 

[op_ivy]

i hate how the races in the ridge racer games are set up. its 2005, and they are still like the old school racing games in which at the start of the race, your in last place and the first place guy is halfway around his first lap.

racing this way means that typically, all the ai cars suck, and are pretty slow, you just have to drive fast enough and make few mistakes to be able to pass the first place car befoe the race is over. the problem is (and it seems worse in RR, due to the powerslides), that passing cars can occasionally be a HUGE bitch.

its time to advance that one aspect of an otherwise great series.

 

[Borys]

F-Zero GX, first to worst in 1/10 of a second.

:lol

So true but it wasn't because the AI was cheating. Always happens after you screw up something - touch a band, make too wide or too narrow turn, crash into an opponent etc.

If you drive perfectly you'll always win, no cheating, no hidden tricks on the CPU side.

 

[MC Safety]

The Blitz games from Midway were laden with the worst catch-up A.I. ever. A 30-point lead could be whittled down to nothing in two minutes.

You'd be playing this fun, goofy football game and all of a sudden you'd want to start a murder spree when the computer picked off all your passes and scored touchdown after touchdown.

 

[Ristamar]

F-Zero GX isn't unfair. It's just unbelievably brutal. You have to run a perfect race, and then some.

What he said (except for the Very Hard Story mode stuff... *cough*Chapter7*cough*)

 

[Ristamar]

The Blitz games from Midway were laden with the worst catch-up A.I. ever. A 30-point lead could be whittled down to nothing in two minutes.

You'd be playing this fun, goofy football game and all of a sudden you'd want to start a murder spree when the computer picked off all your passes and scored touchdown after touchdown.

You can turn off the CPU assistance with a code. It works PvP and Player vs. CPU, I believe.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

They should just ditch rubberband AI forever. I mean if you're driving really good it's fun to start lapping the opponents.

Diddy Kong Racing ditch away with it, it was a great game because of it

 

[Starfire]

Yeah, RRs AI is pretty irritating at points, and in the PSP RR opponents don't seem to react at all when you collide with them (well they do, but I've had to almost run myself off the track in a few instances just to nudge them aside). The CPU uses this to it's advantage as the opponent in front of you will regularly bar your path, and when you even try to nudge an opponent, you instantly lose speed, but they keep on going without so much as deviating from their line. Fair is fair, and I expect to be served by AI blocking my path, but cars are not brick walls :lol .

 

[gblues]

I could probably run a few dozen paragraphs listing all the cheap moments in Jak II:

Vehicles are destructible! Except, when they're carrying a couple dozen squadrons of Krimzon Guard, then your gun suddenly doesn't do any damage to it (see: the "defend Samos in the forest" quest and the "get the shiny thing in the water slums" quest).

How about forcing the player to either run towards the camera (translation: you can't see where the fuck you're going and die repeatedly until you memorize when to jump) or away from the camera, except the camera follows the critter chasing you instead of you (translation: you have to let the chasing critter catch up just enough so you can see where the fuck you're going).

Or there's the shitty timing, where if you don't press the button at precisely the right moment, it doesn't count. This happens all over the place, but there's one mission where you're getting out of the Palace after Ashelin gives you the black keycard. One of the last jumps actually requires you to start your jump just as you're falling off the edge. If you actually leap while your feet are still on the ledge, you'll miss the jump. Or the wildly inconsistent hoverboard physics that would work on one run and then fall short the next. Or the flakey grinding. "Oh, I know you hit the grind button, but you're just a few pixels too far to the left, so no grind for you, good day. I SAID GOOD DAY!"

Nathan

 

[MC Safety]

You can turn off the CPU assistance with a code. It works against the PvP and Player vs. CPU, I believe.

Oh, that's right -- those goofy codes you had to enter before each game. Yeah, that reeks of effort, though.

 

[blackadde]

Every SNK boss ever.

 

[MarkRyan]

its time to advance that one aspect of an otherwise great series.

Couldn't disagree more. If Burnout 3 had this set up, starting a dozen or so cars ahead of you, the game would've been at least 1,000,000x better. This is a great way to ensure that you've always got opponents to battle without implementing a retarded rubberband AI. Passing is a huge part of racing, so I definitely disagree with your complaint.

I would've absolutely loved Burnout 3 if the game started the opponents ahead of you. It'd end up playing more like the road rage mode (which was the best), forcing you to get takedowns in order to get boost that'll catch you up with the next placed guy. The entire race could be action-packed as you get consecutive takedowns and squeak out a win, and would rely a lot more on skill and technique. As Burnout 3 exists, you get a takedown, rocket ahead of everyone, slowdown, wait to get passed by the rubberband AI, takedown, repeat.

 

[jerrymaguire]

guile walking forwards and doing sonic booms... classic! :lol

 

[ElyrionX]

I totally agree with the Burnout 3 comments as well. Its ridiculous. When you're in the lead, there's no point boosting at all since the AI will catch up regardless. And it just takes one crash to send you back a minute or so and if you have no boost then you're fucked because there is absolutely no way to catch up without boost. Even with a full boost meter, it's still incredibly hard to catch up so it's even more frustrating.

 

[cvxfreak]

Seems like mostly racing games that suffer from this problem.

There were a few instances in Pokemon Colosseum where I thought that the opponent should have lost, but I dunno if that;s unfair since the game is set almost pattern-like.

 

[swoon]

fucking every version of ghost 'n goblins

 

[Ulthwe]

150cc Cups on Mario Kart Double Dash. You don't win, the items win for you.

 

[Yusaku]

F-Zero GX, first to worst in 1/10 of a second.

I don't see how that's unfair when you can just as easily go from worst to first just as quickly.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

Anybody remember when the clock would run down in NBA Jam? In the last few seconds the AI would speed up and absolutely rape you for the ball; then it'd proceed to make an impossible shot right at the buzzer.

If I would have been in the game for the basketball instead of unlocking famous sprites, it would have really pissed me off.

 

[warthog]

Many race games do take the crown in this aspect, burnout 3 is indeed a great example. The last game I had this problem with is Wipeout Pure : when you take a good start and you get to position 3 or something like that, no matter what you'll try you'll go back to position 8 in most cases because of the other ships going way faster than in the rest of the game. Sometimes I think it's better to have a bad start and take them from behind, they like it it that way :lol

There must have been so many other games that have made me gone mad because of the game cheating, but I really can't remember anything specific at this moment.

 

[Fix]

Every SNK boss ever.

.

 

[FiRez]

How I'm supposed to beat her now?

 

[Kleegamefan]

NBA Ballers.....

Every time you fake out a CPU apponent, it will "insert" an extra juke move (you don't have to perform it yourself, its automatic) which slows down your progress to the basket so that the CPU has enough time to recover, catch up and BLOCK YOUR SHIT....

Goal tending whenever the CPU feels like it...

You block the ball: CPU ball=SWISH

You taking an uncontested jump shot=DOINK!!

You go up to block the ball from behind and a mysterious wind BLOWS YOU AWAY FROM THE CPU PLAYER!??

You reaching for the ball=AUTOMATIC FOUL but CPU can RAPE YOUR ASS and NO FUCKING FOUL???!?!??!


My favorite part is how juke moves you didn't even perform are auto-inserted....this is really fun when you have a 5 second shot clock and you are trying to shoot the ball but instead you perform this stupid ass juke move you didnt even perform and stops you from taking a shot!!! So then the shot clock expires and you not only lose ball possesion but your turbo meter is lost with the shot clock violation!!!

*slits wrists*

 

[dark10x]

Ninja Gaiden is not unfair in the least. It simply demands a lot from the player...

 

[Bluecondor]

The absolute worst for me is that mission in GTA: Vice City where you have to race Hilary, or whatever his name is. It was bad enough that your car was slower and didn't handle well - then - the cops always tried to take you out, and let Hilary go on his way. And - I can remember 5 or 6 times when I had the lead at the end of the race - and some random car would tag me, letting Hilary win....again.

I swear it took me 150 attempts to finally beat him. And - I'm sure there are 50 people on this board who either beat him the first time, or have beaten this mission multiple times.

 

[somari]

Don't even get me started with Jak II. It's the only game that's ever caused me to throw a controller out of frustration and curse like a sailor in German. It's a shame, too, because I want to play Jak 3, but not before conquering the second. Someday, Jak II, you will be tamed.

Shinobi on PS2 was stupidly hard at times, too. Or maybe I just sucked at it. Bah.

Managing boost in Burnout 3 is simple, though. What's up with that?

 

[op_ivy]

Couldn't disagree more. If Burnout 3 had this set up, starting a dozen or so cars ahead of you, the game would've been at least 1,000,000x better. This is a great way to ensure that you've always got opponents to battle without implementing a retarded rubberband AI. Passing is a huge part of racing, so I definitely disagree with your complaint.

I would've absolutely loved Burnout 3 if the game started the opponents ahead of you. It'd end up playing more like the road rage mode (which was the best), forcing you to get takedowns in order to get boost that'll catch you up with the next placed guy. The entire race could be action-packed as you get consecutive takedowns and squeak out a win, and would rely a lot more on skill and technique. As Burnout 3 exists, you get a takedown, rocket ahead of everyone, slowdown, wait to get passed by the rubberband AI, takedown, repeat.

well for burnout, i guess that would work, but i'm talking about a racing game.

i'll admit that rubberband ai is a worse offender then what i have listed, i was just trying to state another annoying thing i find in games.

 

[FiRez]

Ninja Gaiden is not unfair in the least. It simply demands a lot from the player...

I posted the pic because the battle with alma is very frustating, and with 3 more enemies in Ninja Gaiden Black it will be almost impossible.

 

[raYne]

Rubberband AI sentiments echoed.

I posted the pic because the battle with alma is very frustating, and with 3 more enemies in Ninja Gaiden Black it will be almost impossible.

Not really.. you aren't supposed to stop moving in that battle in the first place so the extra enemies shouldn't be that big a problem. Plus if you do take them on you get to use essence supers on her, so it balances out.

 

[..pakbeka..]

Jinpachi in Tekken 5, he was too cheap, double chest fire balls plus that stomp that stuns you. What was namco thinking??

 

[SantaC]

They should just ditch rubberband AI forever. I mean if you're driving really good it's fun to start lapping the opponents.

did the original mario kart to snes have rubberband ai? I know you can lap the opponents easily

 

[raYne]

It had timely super AI like that yellow car in RC ProAM. :lol

 

[sprsk]

rubberband AI is good in racers imo, makes the race more exciting. It turns it into you vs the course instead of you vs another driver. And really, if you arent racing a real person it should be about obtaining absolute course perfection.

 

[Dice]

Diddy Kong Racing ditch away with it, it was a great game because of it

True that, DKR is one of the best racers ever. I think it's Rare's best game.

rubberband AI is good in racers imo, makes the race more exciting. It turns it into you vs the course instead of you vs another driver. And really, if you arent racing a real person it should be about obtaining absolute course perfection.

That's what time trials are for. And I disagree, in real racing even if you race the course perfectly you have to deal with other professional drivers who can do pretty much as well as you, it's a huge racing dynamic.

Jinpachi in Tekken 5, he was too cheap, double chest fire balls plus that stomp that stuns you. What was namco thinking??

Well, you can double-dodge the fireballs easy, you can see them coming a mile away.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I must give the nod to Super Mario Sunshine's camera. To get the tough stuff, the camera will not work for you. In tough areas, the camera sometimes simply won't move. Other times you have a little bit of range but it won't do you any good. You have no idea where you are going and are just a ?. Cheap as fuck. Cheap as fuck.

In Crazy Taxi, the better you do, the more cars pull out in front of you. When you get around $200,000, the cars will go out of their way to fuck you over.

 

[Hitokage]

did the original mario kart to snes have rubberband ai? I know you can lap the opponents easily

Rubberband tightness goes up with classes. At 50cc there isn't much, but in 150cc it's rigid.

 

[sprsk]

Time trials dont necessarily help you against human opponents. Atleast in ID, people can knock your bumper, fuck up your line all sorts of stuff, this is something you cant account for in a time trial.


Time trials are useful for knowing where the turns are, and knowing how fast you can go. You can learn that in a single player cpu match too though, and i think the information you gather while racing an opponent (even if its rubberband) is much more valuable than just driving by yourself.

 

[123rl]

Rubberband AI in Forza made me want to kill myself. It usually doesn't bother me but Forza's took the piss. MK: DD!! had disgusting rubberbanding as well...I could only finish the last comp. on 150cc in 2 player mode because of it.

When it comes to unfairness though, NOTHING comes close to God Of War. That last fucking level annoyed me to the point of almost smashing the PS2 into a hundred pieces. I'm a calm person but it made me want to kick a kitten through an electric fan*

(*bonus points for the person who tells me where this phrase comes from )

 

[Xenon]

every fighting game with charge moves

 

[SpoonyBard]

I nominate Shox for having the worst rubberband AI ever. Even if you used the shox wave thing and did perfet laps the AI cars would stay just behind you.

 

[MarkRyan]

every fighting game with charge moves

Er, care to explain?

 

[123rl]

I think he means because the AI can do charge moves seemingly without charging them :lol ie Guile in SF2 would do a Sonic Boom and then do another less than second later, even though it requires a holding back for two seconds

It is possible to get round charge moves by buffering. So you could jump forward and punch, as you're jumping you hold back so that you're ready to do the charge move as soon as you land. But the AI in a lot of fighters doesn't even do this...they blatantly cheat by just doing charge move after charge move