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[HRK69]

When did I ever pretend that this was a galaxy brain take or even a remotely insightful post? I start the OP with "why do journos and industry people pretend not to understand" because it's freakin' obvious why a bunch of angry gamers are rallying against something they hate. This was in response to a few threads I've seen about industry people claiming they don't get why gamers root against a game.

No idea where you got this was supposed to be some profound manifesto with a groundbreaking premise and supporting arguments.

Obviously I don't literally think you believed you were writing some groundbreaking manifesto. I was being condescending because you started throwing out insults and acting like people were too stupid to understand a very basic point.

And yeah, I already admitted I overstated your original point by framing it as wanting bankruptcy. That has nothing to do with misunderstanding what you were saying

Still, the mechanism is shakier than you're giving it credit for. Studios rarely read a bomb as 'wrong direction'. They read it as bad timing or poor execution. The message you're trying to send usually doesn't land where you think it does

 

[Bridges]

This doesn't make sense. With the way the industry is today, a game's failure will not cause the studio to pivot, it'll just cause them to shut down. Yes, I am also tired of GaaS oversaturation but that doesn't mean every service game is equally bad or unworthy of existence.

If Marathon drops to zero players tomorrow, that doesn't get you Destiny 3, that just gets you the death of Bungie.

As gamers in the modern age, there is almost always someone out there making something that caters to your taste, it just may not be the same devs that used to be doing it, and that's okay. Actively wishing for failure probably means you need to take a break from the hobby, you're way too emotionally invested in this.

 

[ReasonBeing]

I just can't relate to the sentiment of "I don't like this, therefore, I don't want it to exists".

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Why are moron journalists or industry people always making a surprised Pikachu face when gamers root for games they dislike to fail? Of course, you should want something you dislike to fail so you see less of it. What's so hard to understand?

We hate Sony doing GAAS because it comes at the expense of the better single-player games they used to deliver, so we want them to bomb for Sony to realize they're betting on the wrong horse and to give us back what we want. Same reason that many want COD to fail because they're fed up with bro shooters saturating the market and want talented devs to do something else. I haven't seen the next rumored God of War with Faye, but my opinion on it is already negative because I don't want God of War to be feminized. If it bombs, Sony and SSM will hopefully get the message and stop heading in that direction.

You want what you like to succeed to get more of it.

You want what you dislike to fail to get less of it.

Simple, right?

Your suggesting that everyone complain about stuff they don't like and that is a novel idea to you?

 

[R3TRO]

Seems childish.

I just play the games I like and keep it moving.

 

[Zephyranthes]

It may well not be the case, but I wouldn't call it obvious. It depends on what games you like.

Anyone into Sony first party efforts must be feeling kinda beat up this gen with where they have spent all their money.

Since the PS5 launch Playstation Studios have released the following:

God of War Ragnarok
God of War Sons of Sparta
Returnal
Saros
Gran Turismo 7
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Horizon Forbidden West
Ghost of Yotei
Spiderman 2
Astro Bot

All of these were generally well received, and several of them were GOTY contenders. Just because Concord and Marathon were duds doesn't mean Sony's been shooting nothing but blanks for the last 6 years.

 

[Gaiff]

Your suggesting that everyone complain about stuff they don't like and that is a novel idea to you?

Please, explain how you concluded that from my post.

 

[GateofD]

I would agree if the games I don't like prevented the ones that I do like from existing, but that is obviously not the case. People can spend their time however they want, bit personally I would rather use my available leisure time actually playing games than campaigning against them.

I mean it kind of does? DA: Veilguard being done the way it is pretty much erased any chance of another dragon age you loved and played from ever coming again.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Please, explain how you concluded that from my post.

Because that's what you wrote.

 

[Gaiff]

Because that's what you wrote.

So you didn't bother reading. Got it.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

So you didn't bother reading. Got it.

I read it, its just fucking stupid.

 

[MiguelItUp]

This doesn't make sense. With the way the industry is today, a game's failure will not cause the studio to pivot, it'll just cause them to shut down. Yes, I am also tired of GaaS oversaturation but that doesn't mean every service game is equally bad or unworthy of existence.

If Marathon drops to zero players tomorrow, that doesn't get you Destiny 3, that just gets you the death of Bungie.

As gamers in the modern age, there is almost always someone out there making something that caters to your taste, it just may not be the same devs that used to be doing it, and that's okay. Actively wishing for failure probably means you need to take a break from the hobby, you're way too emotionally invested in this.

I couldn't agree more.

I feel like I've said similar things around this and similar topics. But I'm usually told it's an incorrect perspective/opinion, lmao.

 

[Gaiff]

I read it, its just fucking stupid.

So stupid that you didn't get it, right? Where the fuck did I imply this was a novel concept? I made an observation that journos act like they don't understand why people root for games to fail and gave a very simple explanation. That's it. There's nothing groundbreaking or novel. It's something painfully obvious as highlighted in the OP when I finished it with "simple, right?".

Your suggesting that everyone complain about stuff they don't like and that is a novel idea to you?

I mean, when did I suggest everyone should do it? I said they already do and why. I assume you meant "You're" and not "your".

I swear, the smartasses on Gaf are the absolute worst. You barge in, completely misconstrue a post, condescendingly make a dumb reply, then you need to be explained why your reply is even more stupid and missed the mark.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This doesn't make sense. With the way the industry is today, a game's failure will not cause the studio to pivot, it'll just cause them to shut down. Yes, I am also tired of GaaS oversaturation but that doesn't mean every service game is equally bad or unworthy of existence.

If Marathon drops to zero players tomorrow, that doesn't get you Destiny 3, that just gets you the death of Bungie.

As gamers in the modern age, there is almost always someone out there making something that caters to your taste, it just may not be the same devs that used to be doing it, and that's okay. Actively wishing for failure probably means you need to take a break from the hobby, you're way too emotionally invested in this.

Yup.

Bluepoint was only around 80 people. Sony and BP couldnt figure out a GAAS game to work on. After years of prototype work and nothing worth pursuing Sony execs simply pulled the plug instead of them going back to remasters and remakes.

Instead of being pressured to work on GAAS, they could probably could had released two remasters/remakes by now. Instead they got shut down.

 

[HRK69]

I swear, the smartasses on Gaf are the absolute worst. You barge in, completely misconstrue a post, condescendingly make a dumb reply, then you need to be explained why your reply is even more stupid and missed the mark.

I like how you're acting emotionally wounded over 'condescending replies' in a thread that literally started with 'moron journalists' and ranting about games being feminized

You set the tone, man

 

[Gaiff]

I like how you're acting emotionally wounded over 'condescending replies' in a thread that literally started with 'moron journalists' and ranting about games being feminized

You set the tone, man

Nobody's emotionally wounded. It's just annoying to see someone thinking they're smart while shooting wide of the mark like you did.

And why would you even care about me insulting journos lol? I also didn't "rant" about games being feminized. I simply gave an example of not wanting to see God of War getting feminized.

Anything else you wish to misinterpret?

 

[Guardian Monkey]

So stupid that you didn't get it, right? Where the fuck did I imply this was a novel concept? I made an observation that journos act like they don't understand why people root for games to fail and gave a very simple explanation. That's it. There's nothing groundbreaking or novel. It's something painfully obvious as highlighted in the OP when I finished it with "simple, right?".


I mean, when did I suggest everyone should do it? I said they already do and why. I assume you meant "You're" and not "your".

I swear, the smartasses on Gaf are the absolute worst. You barge in, completely misconstrue a post, condescendingly make a dumb reply, then you need to be explained why your reply is even more stupid and missed the mark.

Why are moron journalists or industry people always making a surprised Pikachu face when gamers root for games they dislike to fail? Of course, you should want something you dislike to fail so you see less of it. What's so hard to understand?

Literally your words. So you think the proper discourse is to whine about what you don't like? Not everyone likes the same shit, so what then? Not everyone likes GAAS, not everyone likes JPRGs, etc.. This is honestly one of the dumbest topics I have read here.

 

[HRK69]

Nobody's emotionally wounded. It's just annoying to see someone thinking they're smart while shooting wide of the mark like you did.

And why would you even care about me insulting journos lol? I also didn't "rant" about games being feminized. I simply gave an example of not wanting to see God of War being feminized.

Anything else you wish to misinterpret?

You seem to be spending a lot of energy arguing over definitions and policing how people read your posts

And overstating the tone isn't the same as missing the mark on the substance. I hit your point exactly; I just didn't treat it with the importance you wanted. The reason this became a mess is that my framing made you feel patronized instead of challenged, so you pivoted to defending your ego instead of your argument

You aren't actually interested in a conversation, just in having the last word

 

[Gaiff]

Why are moron journalists or industry people always making a surprised Pikachu face when gamers root for games they dislike to fail? Of course, you should want something you dislike to fail so you see less of it. What's so hard to understand?

Literally your words. So you think the proper discourse is to whine about what you don't like? Not everyone likes the same shit, so what then? Not everyone likes GAAS, not everyone likes JPRGs, etc.. This is honestly one of the dumbest topics I have read here.

And yet most have no problem contextualizing and understanding my post, except for a select few who seem to have just skimmed over it. Did you ever see anyone who dislikes a genre and consistently complains about it? I bet not. The context of the OP refers to what people do and why they do it. ie, you will see someone disliking every GAAS Sony puts out or a franchise they love going in a different direction. In such cases, it's common for people to be very vocal about their discontent with the product. No one goes around shitting on every JRPG on the planet, so that's utterly irrelevant and purposefully misses the context of the post for a silly "gotcha" moment that doesn't even make sense. I even gave some examples to drive the point home by framing this as a zero-sum game, because this is about practices and directions, not entire genres, which wouldn't even work anyway.

You seem to be spending a lot of energy arguing over definitions and policing how people read your posts

And overstating the tone isn't the same as missing the mark on the substance. I hit your point exactly; I just didn't treat it with the importance you wanted. The reason this became a mess is that my framing made you feel patronized instead of challenged, so you pivoted to defending your ego instead of your argument

You aren't actually interested in a conversation, just in having the last word

Oh, the irony. You came in without any interest in understanding what I said. You outright misinterpreted it and damn near put words in my mouth. I explained why your assertion was incorrect. What kind of discussion do you want to have when someone doesn't even understand your position or (intentionally or not) misconstrues it?

 

[poodaddy]

Nobody's emotionally wounded. It's just annoying to see someone thinking they're smart while shooting wide of the mark like you did.

And why would you even care about me insulting journos lol? I also didn't "rant" about games being feminized. I simply gave an example of not wanting to see God of War getting feminized.

Anything else you wish to misinterpret?

Ignore em dude, the vast majority of the forum agreed with you, quite obviously, these dudes are just trying to stir shit up with you to troll you and argue for no reason. They know what you meant, they're deliberately being thick to be combative.

Don't feed trolls brother.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

And yet most have no problem contextualizing and understanding my post, except for a select few who seem to have just skimmed over it. Did you ever see anyone who dislikes a genre and consistently complains about it? I bet not. The context of the OP refers to what people do and why they do it. ie, you will see someone disliking every GAAS Sony puts out or a franchise they love going in a different direction. In such cases, it's common for people to be very vocal about their discontent with the product. No one goes around shitting on every JRPG on the planet, so that's utterly irrelevant and purposefully misses the context of the post for a silly "gotcha" moment that doesn't even make sense. I even gave some examples to drive the point home by framing this as a zero-sum game, because this is about practices and directions, not entire genres, which wouldn't even work anyway.

Of course they don't because its stupid. One game, a whole sub category, etc. That's the point, its all stupid. What you are suggesting is irrational.

Ignore em dude, the vast majority of the forum agreed with you, quite obviously, these dudes are just trying to stir shit up with you to troll you and argue for no reason. They know what you meant, they're deliberately being thick to be combative.

Don't feed trolls brother.

Most of the actual comments say otherwise.

 

[Fess]

Probably the failure of PC's, then you can happily switch to the best place to play without concern.

Why is it the best place to play?
I already have the Pro, as far as I'm concerned there is nothing impressive about it, it's weak and ugly and games are expensive and the controller has low battery life and sticks are drifting and I can't use mods. The only reason I have it is to play games locked to it. No other reason. And there are far too few games like that to justify it's existence. It's an annoyance in my life.

 

[Gaiff]

Of course they don't because its stupid. One game, a whole sub category, etc. That's the point, its all stupid. What you are suggesting is irrational.

Nope, I disagree. Backlash and low sales inevitably lead to changes. It's not irrational whatsoever. Money and success drive this industry, so not wanting a product you hate to have either so it cannot continue existing is perfectly logical.

Most of the actual comments say otherwise.

Yeah, you're just lying. 90% of the posters are on board with the OP. Only a select fringes like you are arguing against it and often in bad faith.

 

[dgproject]

There are plenty of games that I likes, and with plenty I mean abundance, to the point I don't have enough time to play them all.
So honestly I don't really care about games that I don't like.

I kind of understand OP point of view, I think the best way to vote is with your wallet, support publishers/ developers that create games that you like.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Nope, I disagree. Backlash and low sales inevitably lead to changes. It's not irrational whatsoever. Money and success drive this industry, so not wanting a product you hate to have either so it cannot continue existing is perfectly logical.

Yeah, you're just lying. 90% of the posters are on board with the OP. Only a select fringes like you are arguing against it and often in bad faith.

LOL 90%?!?, are you counting emojis?

 

[bender]

Yeah, you're just lying. 90% of the posters are on board with the OP.

86% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[kat_on_the_roof]

If you wanted Destiny 3, you would have it if it weren't for Marathon. Those hundreds of millions Sony burned on failed GAAS could have been used to make something else.

What's so hard to understand?

Yeah I think you missed my point.
I just tried to say that wishing for Marathon to fail is a bit silly. I don't think it would have saved destiny with the way bungie handled it and there are people who like marathon.

A lot of other great games out there. No need to hate and wish for doom. It is not worth it.
But I guess I kinda understand where you are coming from. For me it is just not a healthy way personally and not a constructive way on the internet.

To each its own I guess.

 

[bitbydeath]

Why is it the best place to play?
I already have the Pro, as far as I'm concerned there is nothing impressive about it, it's weak and ugly and games are expensive and the controller has low battery life and sticks are drifting and I can't use mods. The only reason I have it is to play games locked to it. No other reason. And there are far too few games like that to justify it's existence. It's an annoyance in my life.

No Windows, no shader issues, games tend to load faster, no driver issues, runs better on a TV, everything works as intended, no messing around with mod instructions, more time for gaming.

Edit: There's probably a bunch of other stuff I'm missing too, like local co-op being more prevalent.

 

[ReasonBeing]

86% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

It's 76%

 

[Pyral Phoenix]

So voting with our wallets and time is now called root for a game to fail?
If I'm not buying what a dev offers and maybe express that, what's the problem?
Besides, games are being pruned out of existence daily
It's not like, the make a good game or even a bad one and just leave it for the ppl, nah!
Let's just wipe it out of existence!
If the ppl who made a game, can't stand behind what they made, how are consumers supposed to do that?

 

[Neolombax]

Completely idiotic take. This is one of the reasons why developers dont take risks anymore. I dont like sports game but I dont root for FIFA games to cease to exist. But I root for games that I feel give me value for my money.

 

[evanft]

Since the PS5 launch Playstation Studios have released the following:

God of War Ragnarok
God of War Sons of Sparta
Returnal
Saros
Gran Turismo 7
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Horizon Forbidden West
Ghost of Yotei
Spiderman 2
Astro Bot

All of these were generally well received, and several of them were GOTY contenders. Just because Concord and Marathon were duds doesn't mean Sony's been shooting nothing but blanks for the last 6 years.

The MLB games have also been very successful.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I hope these two flop. I liked that Saros didn't sell well... because of humiliating men.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

I would definitely apply OP's logic to certain trends inside of gaming, be it p2w MTX, agenda-driven writing, millenial style writing (yes, they overlap, but there's differences), focus on graphics over gameplay, etc.

But applying it to genres is idiotic.

 

[HRK69]

I hope these two flop.

Why?

 

[calico]

OP does not portray it as some novel or complex insight. In fact OP describes the concept as simple. It is being explained because -despite how simple it is- some in the industry apparently don't understand it (or claim not to).

Clearly it is at least somewhat effective in some cases, or we wouldn't see industry types and shills crying about it and trying to stop it.

'plz bro just don't buy it and move on bro' Request heard and rejected. I'll comment on the industry as I see fit, where the platform allows for it.

 

[viveks86]

86% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I'm 71% confused now. How many benders are we dealing with:

84% of all statistics are made up on the spot

94% of all statistics are made up on the spot

67% of those statistics are made up on the spot.

90% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

93% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

67% of people use statistics that are made up on the spot.

 

[bender]

I'm 71% confused now. How many benders are we dealing with:

 

[cortadew]

I am getting convinced Gaf is full of 40 year old children

 

[Deerock71]

May Nintendo perish.

Well, you know...

 

[Gamer79]

Why are moron journalists or industry people always making a surprised Pikachu face when gamers root for games they dislike to fail? Of course, you should want something you dislike to fail so you see less of it. What's so hard to understand?

We hate Sony doing GAAS because it comes at the expense of the better single-player games they used to deliver, so we want them to bomb for Sony to realize they're betting on the wrong horse and to give us back what we want. Same reason that many want COD to fail because they're fed up with bro shooters saturating the market and want talented devs to do something else. I haven't seen the next rumored God of War with Faye, but my opinion on it is already negative because I don't want God of War to be feminized. If it bombs, Sony and SSM will hopefully get the message and stop heading in that direction.

You want what you like to succeed to get more of it.

You want what you dislike to fail to get less of it.

Simple, right?

I am looking at intergalactic. I don't want to play as some woke virtual signal

 

[RCX]

According to access media we're supposed to support every game, every time without argument. Similar to "believe all women"

The way I figure it is that if I can help kill as many of these shit GAAS games as possible then they might finally get around to giving Burnout a new entry.

 

[Sohurmk833]

Since the PS5 launch Playstation Studios have released the following:

God of War Ragnarok
God of War Sons of Sparta
Returnal
Saros
Gran Turismo 7
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Horizon Forbidden West
Ghost of Yotei
Spiderman 2
Astro Bot

All of these were generally well received, and several of them were GOTY contenders. Just because Concord and Marathon were duds doesn't mean Sony's been shooting nothing but blanks for the last 6 years.

We are 5 1/2 years into the gen. This list is beyond pathetic.

Sony alone had a better lineup back in 2013. In one year.

 

[uncreativename]

Well, you know...

Nintendo haters online for 20 years

 

[Felessan]

Lots of Sony studios were forced to make GaaS games, what are you talking about?

And pitiful number of SP games this gen is a direct consequence of that.

Forced is a strong word
Enticed - yes, but no one really forced those studios to do live service. Like in BP case it was studio management decision.

This is not exactly what I mean. As many people pointed out, the OP is more about opportunity costs and treating game development as a zero-sum game.

The problem is that people think that in other reality we would get more SP games.
And that's unlikely given current state of the market (non-Chinese, non-roblox market at stale and matured8 is shrinking even not accounting for inflation, and even in these market conditions gaas keep eating share, making SP part of pie smaller and smaller).
BP had an year out of GaaS mines, pitched several (SP) project - all were rejected as unfeasible in current market and studio got closed. It did not closed due to GaaS venture, it got closed as there were no place for them in current SP gaming space.
SP games struggle, statistics point on that and widespread studio closures also hints. And Sony knows it too, so they are cautious now about SP games investments, especially as they don't have to burn money to win competition