Tell me about it. Took me the best part of around 7 months to pass that shipwreck section. It really was luck.
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I Think I Was Wrong About Uncharted 4
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
- Start date
Tell me about it. Took me the best part of around 7 months to pass that shipwreck section. It really was luck.
R_thanatos
Member
it took me a bit of time to find the right path but i did it. The window of opportunity is quite slim but i did it.
Kevin Shields
Member
Gosh that sounds like a chore.
The problem with Uncharted 4 is that it didn't know what it wanted to be. It wanted to be open, but not too open, it wanted to be linear, but not too linear. In the end, it became the worst Uncharted in the series despite having one of the best playing TPS mechanics out there.
Do you want to be semi-open world? Just do it. Do you want to be linear? Do it. Stop half assing it in both directions. The only parts I enjoyed in the game were the combat and the Jeep parts, I would have actually enjoyed it more if they dropped the entire fanfiction-y plot and made a massive world for you to explore with nothing but treasure and combat. OR made it like the previous games where it was very linear with combat encounter followed by a combat encounter.
It didn't help that I didn't give a shit about Sam, I wanted more Elena, Chloe, Sully, and Cutter. Not that boring ass retcon of a character.
Do you want to be semi-open world? Just do it. Do you want to be linear? Do it. Stop half assing it in both directions. The only parts I enjoyed in the game were the combat and the Jeep parts, I would have actually enjoyed it more if they dropped the entire fanfiction-y plot and made a massive world for you to explore with nothing but treasure and combat. OR made it like the previous games where it was very linear with combat encounter followed by a combat encounter.
It didn't help that I didn't give a shit about Sam, I wanted more Elena, Chloe, Sully, and Cutter. Not that boring ass retcon of a character.
vanDoughnut
Member
I thought wide-linear was fun. It's a nice balance between being straightforward, but with a nice amount of things to stir your curiosity off the beaten path. Sometimes it's a vista, sometimes environmental storytelling, sometimes treasure, but it added to the feeling of adventure, exploration, and gave the world a sense of place. And UC4 is the best in the series at evoking those feelings.
I didn't get the feeling it was half assed or ND had an identity crisis. I enjoyed Madagascar and the island with Sam. I hope ND doesn't abandon it, but improve upon it.
I'm curious to see how they handle it in Uncharted the Lost Legacy.
Dane_gerClose
Member
This. Seriously. I truly feel that many posters here have zero concept of both narrative and gameplay pacing. Each are something Uncharted 4 does near perfectly. But alas. Also agree with your order there. At the risk of an avatar quote, Uncharted 4 is really something special.
R_thanatos
Member
it's just a matter of finding the optimal path , everything afterwards was piss-easy , even the ship fight
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No lies detected. Nice takedown.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
could not have said it better
I guess the clock tower segment (or the car chase) really had certain people saying "that's not very realistic!" unironically
Nate is better with a grappling hook than batman. Game is totally 100% meant to be taken seriously.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because most movies actually have a point besides rewarding the protagonists for pursuing literally the exact same shit as the antagonist and never punishing the protagonist for his actions. And don't have pointless narratives where the new equilibrium is "well he's now even richer and has a kid."
His house is actually huge and fully paid off and his "normal life" job is scuba diving like no Nathan Drake's is privileged as hell...
Uh yes he was, by the time of UC4, Sam Drake straight up kept info from him that could've been incredibly fruitful at gaining information.
Nathan Drake literally murders people in the same mission. They aren't even murderous, they're straight up guards. Nathan even laments not bringing a gun. This is our protagonist...hell, the game even goes out of it's way to characterize the goons by giving them a unique conversation at every combat section. Like, consider what Rafe is actually doing by the time Nate comes into the picture, he's literally in the middle of nowhere, in Scotland. When they go to Madagascar, he's once again, in the middle of nowhere, a threat to nobody but the three guy specifically trying to get the treasure. Hilariously persistent trucks aside, his guards are always in the middle of nowhere before Nate steps in. There's much better ways to characterize an antagonist besides "well, the protagonist couldn't stand him at one point." At least the teaser hinted at some kind of interesting yet cliche narrative where Sam is the villain.
Again we never see any of this, we have no idea what happened between the events of UC4's climax and it's ending except for the fact that they had a child. And no the game didn't "shit in my salad" it's just a straight up pointless narrative, it's almost the same message as UC4 except with a forgettable fanfiction level brother character added, and the same message that no matter what Nathan Drake does, he will be forgiven and straight up rewarded. Not to mention Elena once again being angry at Drake and forgiving him anyway. Despite even him acknowledging that he's pulled this sort of shit way too many times at this point. For how badly the game wants to be a film, the game would straight up be terrible at being a film.
I choose not to because they go out of their way to emphasize how Nathan Drake is a normal guy when honestly he's just an asshole who always gets rewarded and forgiven no matter what he does.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Didnt realize UC4 was such serious business...
maybe I belong in a museum
maybe I belong in a museum
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea Drake is "privileged" but even if he was like a millionaire scuba diver in a mansion he would still miss the life of adventure. It's not about the freaking size of his house. Elena misses it to and she forgives him because at the end of the game in their conversation they both realize they course corrected to far in trying to live a "normal life". I think you missed some of the more clear themes.
Magic Mushroom
Member
It's a very good game. Varied, nice character moments and some of the best TPS gameplay. Not the best game of last year, despite it being the highest-rated title and the game that won the most awards, due to some pacing problems, but very good nonetheless.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
This story somehow won the best narrative too last year....god this medium..honestly the villain in this game didn't even do anything wrong. We're supposed to hate Rafe because he's rich and wants some credit for discovering the treasure too? I don't even know what the message of this game is supposed to be, because it's so interchangeable with 3, but at least that had somewhat of an ending that made sense. If you have a narrative where the characters are constantly reminded of the dangers of pursuing greed and obsession maybe don't reward them with that very greed and obsession at the end and make them richer than they were when the narrative starts. If we're talking equilibriums,What message am I supposed to glean from that? That if I lie to my partner and get caught she'll forgive me anyway? That I will not be punished in anyway shape or form for my actions? That wealthy people who're literally in the middle of nowhere trying to do their own thing are inherently evil? This story literally has nothing of value to say about greed or obsession. In fact i've actually been playing through it with my partner and she appropriately nicknamed it the privilege simulator after seeing this scene:Nathan Drake starts UC4 with a big house and happy marriage but isn't satisfied because he's a masochistic asshole, the middle of the game is him pursuing greed and yet another obsession, and the new equilibrium is that he has two houses and owns a beach.
The scene afterwards where the group was seen chillin' at an inn after the brothers caused so much mayhem and destruction in the city was kinda funny, lol.
I just finished the game yesterday. I thought it was a really fun experience for an Uncharted game. It's still a far cry from the masterpieces that were Jak 2 and Jak 3 but for post-Jason Rubin ND era it was one of their best games.
2 = 4 >>>> 3 >>>> 1
The Madagascar chase and Clock Tower crumbling set pieces were some of the most thrilling moments ever.
2 = 4 >>>> 3 >>>> 1
The Madagascar chase and Clock Tower crumbling set pieces were some of the most thrilling moments ever.
thecouncil
Banned
I still don't understand why Drake lied to Elena.
semiconscious
Member
& i still don't understand how nate & elena go about explaining their multiple blood-soaked adventures to little cassie. do they just leave out all the 'good' parts?
...I actually think ND's dedication to tailor the game design to what fits in the story/setting is one of UC4's biggest strengths. I hope the wide linearity of some chapters is there to stay. ND knew exactly what they wanted the game to be, and the coherence of the gameplay with the plot/setting is what makes UC4 a cinematic experience like no other, in my opinion.
NathanDiego
Member
For me was easy,when your learn that window is pretty easy,my first playthrough on hard I died a few times,when I started the crushing already expect to die a lot,but I passed in my first try.
Kevin Shields
Member
He said because he promised her the old life was done with and she would react negatively. Yea with a dead brother coming back with a bounty on his head, I feel it was a little too convenient for Drake not to tell her.
Lol, although if you've ever been married. Guys can do all kinds of dumb stuff for no reason. That's just how we are wired.
& i still don't understand how nate & elena go about explaining their multiple blood-soaked adventures to little cassie. do they just leave out all the 'good' parts?
If she's ever in a game I bet she'll catch on to the differences between cutscenes and gameplay pretty quickly and forgive them for perceived transgressions. What happens in gameplay sorta stays in gameplay!
He doesn't want her to get hurt.
So god damn annoying. I don't know why they went from "Nate, lets ditch the girl" "Who Elena? We don't need to ditch her, she's bad ass" to that crap.
The airplane scene is 3 is the worst. He tells her to go home and be safe while he tries to sneak on the plane. Then when he fucks up and is seconds away from death, Elena comes out of nowhere and saves his ass. Why the fuck wasn't Elena helping him get on the plane the plan in the first place? Did the scene really need that "I don't want you to get hurt" crap?
They're all a bunch of thieves, man. Of course they pursue the same goal. What matters is the means of doing so. Sam betrays Rafe, wants to leave him out, but that's it. He doesn't actively try and kill him, he just wants the fucking treasure..
...which equals 'threatening' him how exactly? They don't want to work with Rafe, but he won't have it, end of story.
And of course they get punished lol They almost got themselves killed over it! Multiple times. You want the ending to dish out long-lasting punishments or something for hunting riches? That's not something I would like to play tbh. You may not like the characters, but they're part of the reason I actually play those games. To see them live out a happy life, getting a kid is - believe it or not - actually what I want to see.
And all that talk about privilege has got me legit confused. Like... sure.. he doesn't exactly have money problems, he has a lovely wife. But can you blame him for harkening back to the old days? It's quite a stark contrast to his previous life. It's not even like he was super into it at first. Sam had to lie to him about it to convince him to do it.
I don't know man, is that really why? It's been too long, but I'm pretty sure he promised Elena that this kind of life was over and that's why he was trying to leave her out of this, pretending to be on a job.
Fancy Clown
Member
Um actually literally thousands of movies are about the protagonist and antagonist competing for the same McGuffin. Why does Drake need to be "punished" anyway? He clearly gave up on the treasure and adventure in the end and only confronted Rafe in the end to save his own life and Sam's. He even offered to help Rafe escape. The equilibrium is not "now he's richer and has a kid" it's "now he is able to do what he loves in a way that he can safely involve his family and provide a life for his daughter in a way his own parents couldn't do for him". The emotional core of stories is there so you can empathize with characters regardless of their differences. Even "rich" good looking dudes can have compelling stories told about them, otherwise Great Gatsby wouldn't be a classic would it?
I'm unsure why you think witholding information is morally equivalent to threatening murder.
I'm not sure what mission you're talking about now, because throwing the guard in the water was from Uncharted 2, and he never killed any of those guards. He even said "no guns" to Flynn but they were tranquilizers. The heist mission in 4 where you kill the guards, they shoot at you first and they are all mobsters (again, faceless capital-B Bad Guy cannon fodder).
Nate keeps running into Rafe because they are both after the same thing, Nate and Sam for very personal reasons which should be enough to get you to empathize with them over the psychotic murderer. His guys always attack you on sight, and they attack you in a city as well if you recall, which is not the middle of nowhere. Part of the plot's point is that Nate needs to leave this adventure behind, which he realizes in the culmination of his arc. Characters can make mistakes and do bad things and still be empathetic characters (in fact it often helps).
Rafe also has a good deal more characterization that you seem to be willfully ignoring than Nate and Sam just think he's kind of a jerk.
They don't need to explicitly show it. That's the whole point of you playing as Cassie and and exploring the house and looking at what their life is like, in sharp and obvious contrast with the super on the nose chapter 16 where you explore another adventurers house as a child but witness how it destroyed a family instead of brought them together. I don't think this game "wants to be a film" super badly like you think it does either, but whatever.
That's just the nature of this type of story, man. It's a fairly light adventure about the loveable kinda-assholish rogue thief who fucks everything up but manages to save the day and better himself a bit by the end of the story. The sequelized nature of it stretches credulity a bit, sure, but not beyond the bounds of the individual stories.
You seem to have totally overlooked the entire theme of the game and characterization to further your strange anger that Nate should be punished for everything for being privaledged or something, and applying a level of real life normalization and scrutiny to pretty standard fare action adventure tropes.
foolishoptimist
Member
He's not a ridiculous, megalomaniacal villain. He's more realistic, and better for it IMO.
In truth, they're all crooks. But Drake would avoid killing if possible. You only ever kill characters who would kill you. Rafe, it's demonstrated, is not so particular.
How many good, normal people hire a massive team of mercenaries, and have them open up in a crowded market place?
Spring-Loaded
Member
They fired warning shots to scare off civilians at the start of that fight
Conciliator
Banned
lol this is partly why I liked the game so much. this is exactly what it was.