TheLaughingStock
Member
Hillary's rhetoric, ideology, and poor judgement depressed turnout for liberals.
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I was on stage at Javits Center the night Hillary lost
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Hillary's rhetoric, ideology, and poor judgement depressed turnout for liberals.
I would say it's both. She ought to have had the leadership balls to come out to speak, but we should try and empathise with why she didn't.
I mean, it's not like being angry at her lack-of-appearance helps you, me, or the Dems at this point.
A coalition that led to the GOP having more power in govt than they have in a generation. How is the Democratic Party not damaged?
For sure. Personally, I put a lot of blame on the DNC, from their terrible midterm strategy to messing with the primaries. It needs a complete overhaul.
But at the end of the day, it was Hillary who had 3M less votes than Obama. Pathetic. She needs to fade away from public life entirely.
Sohter.Nura
Member
The denial that Clinton was a horrible candidate on GAF is appalling.
Know a lot of people who volunteered in Obama's campaigns in '08 and '12. Almost none of them felt like working in the Clinton campaign.
She was a candidate with more skeletons in her closet than a horror movie main character. Sure, some of them were planted by the right, but a lot of her issues were legit conflicts of interest which unmotivated a lot of the democratic base. The e-mails, the server, the COI in the foundation, and her overall lack of charisma brought this on in the presidential election.
I'm not saying she is a bad person, I'm 100% sure she has done some amazing things in her life and would've been one hundred times the president that Trump will ever be, but her faults ended up preventing her from becoming elected.
Know a lot of people who volunteered in Obama's campaigns in '08 and '12. Almost none of them felt like working in the Clinton campaign.
She was a candidate with more skeletons in her closet than a horror movie main character. Sure, some of them were planted by the right, but a lot of her issues were legit conflicts of interest which unmotivated a lot of the democratic base. The e-mails, the server, the COI in the foundation, and her overall lack of charisma brought this on in the presidential election.
I'm not saying she is a bad person, I'm 100% sure she has done some amazing things in her life and would've been one hundred times the president that Trump will ever be, but her faults ended up preventing her from becoming elected.
While I agree that she should have come out, I also think that not only was she having a meltdown BUT she also had no concession speech prepared. Everything she does is carefully crafted by a team and there was no way she was capable of going out there and ad-libbing. Even if all she had to do was thank her supporters.
BotoxAgent
Member
Well I volunteered for Obama both times and also volunteered enthusiastically for Clinton this year. Most of my Facebook friends did too. *shrugs*
But yes, there's a lot of blame to go around....but I squarely put the front end of the blame on Clinton's court. She fucked this up badly.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Pretty much.
"Wow, I did not see this coming at all, I was sure beyond a doubt that we were looking at a 15 point national popular vote win and a 320+ electoral vote landslide. Creaming myself at the possibility of a Blue Texas. Well, here's what we must do next, and if you aren't along for the ride, prepare to be dogpiled into eternity again."
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Hillary was wrong for not going out and speaking to those supporters that night, no two ways about it. And even if not everyone acted like it, people were absolutely disappointed in her. I have no sympathy for her. We were electing her to be President of the United States. She should have chosen to act like a leader that night and come speak to those supporters herself, and the fact she couldn't do so was disgraceful and just further evidence that she really and truly doesn't have the character to be President.
Cry your tears behind the scenes, and then you take your ass out there and talk to all those people who took the time to show their support for you.
Cry your tears behind the scenes, and then you take your ass out there and talk to all those people who took the time to show their support for you.
This thread has already devolved into a debate over Hillary's merits, but I would just warn people against taking OP's observations as gospel. It's one thing to speak on an event you were at (election night at the Javitz Center) and quite another to draw broad conclusions about a campaign you were not directly involved in.
Working indirectly for Hillary 12 years ago and having some campaign friends, seemingly in the comms shop, makes you better connected than the average GAFer but does not make you an insider -- it puts you on par with your typical DC resident. I am not saying this to cast aspersions on the OP, but to caution against speaking with such authority and to remind people here that as a general rule with these things those who know don't speak, and those who speak don't know.
Working indirectly for Hillary 12 years ago and having some campaign friends, seemingly in the comms shop, makes you better connected than the average GAFer but does not make you an insider -- it puts you on par with your typical DC resident. I am not saying this to cast aspersions on the OP, but to caution against speaking with such authority and to remind people here that as a general rule with these things those who know don't speak, and those who speak don't know.
Its a critical analyses of the freaking Clinton campaign. What are you even talking about?
"They were worried about Bernie once he gained steam because they believed in his message but didn't think it was mainstream enough."
This is why Hillary lost.
There were many reasons but this is by far the one that could have been most easily fixed.
Nothing about Trump was "mainstream", the entire election was anti-"mainstream".
This is why Hillary lost.
There were many reasons but this is by far the one that could have been most easily fixed.
Nothing about Trump was "mainstream", the entire election was anti-"mainstream".
elvisaintdead
Member
Am I the only person who didn't understand what happened there, and why it should reflect badly on Hillary?
I thought there was a venue issue, where they couldn't be in Javits past a certain time. When Podesta came out, things looked bad, but no network or news organization had called the race yet. Was the expectation that she should have conceded before the race was called by a major media outlet? Should she have come out and said essentially the same thing that Podesta said? I get the sense that you never see the candidate in these things until the race is over, when it's called by a major outlet.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Deleted
stan423321
Member
Okay, wooow. This whole election is becoming more and more like some classic dark comedy instead of, you know, an election, form outside view. Hillary's meeting... in the not-Trump Center.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I think this is a really really important piece to remember for all news in general. Especially after this election. It bothered me how much people were immediately dismissing OP's observations because of....other people's observations. Not sure why one is more important or believable than another. I enjoyed reading OP observation, no matter how much I believe them or not.
The wall of evidence that makes it clear Clinton had no business being a leader of anything just got higher. Hopefully the yassqueen crowd goes back to their hole and GAF won't get hijacked to this degree again.
Skellig Gra
Member
Daily mail isnt a reputable source
One, it isn't a reputable source, and two, it's the UK print equivalent of Breitbart. And that's legitimately not an exaggeration - they've been pushing anti-immigrant/anti-women/anti-feminism stances for the past 15+ years, and normailsing a lot of hatred and bigotry.
aorange999
Member
Agreed 100% with what you say here. I was engaged in the campaign more than the average gaffer and studied the messaging hard because I was seeking to be involved in that directly on a national level. I probably wouldnt have posted if so many posts on here hadn't made me sad. I'm yet to read a good post on this forum by anyone with access that seemed to be higher or more reliable than mine which is the only reason I posted.
I was a campaign operative many years ago and maintained many of my relationships from that world as you say like a 'standard DC person'. I have stated a few times this is MY opinion and the key takeaway is that there are millions of opinions on why she lost. I stand by everything I say and I would hope that people don't think I made anything up.
He knows this, that's why he used an url shortener, and is a junior.
Caipirinha
Member
This is where you guys still fail to understand why you lost.
It isn't a case of doing whatever it takes to simply get "your team" elected, Bernie was popular because his politics (and particularly economics) is significantly different - indeed, opposed - to Hillary's. On top of this you have the polls that suggested if he was on the ballot, he would have beaten Trump.
The same applies to Trump, he won because he was offering an alternative to the status quo to a country that largely consists of an over-worked, under-paid, neglected working and middle class whose lives are getting worse whilst the lives of the establishment continue to improve.
They would have voted for literally anyone who claimed to change the status quo and Hillary does not, neither fundamentally did Obama, neither do most oft he mainstream political parties in Europe, and this is why you see the rise of the far fight across the US and EU - because the left is still too busy refusing to actually be the left and instead insists on clinging onto a "mainstream" that has failed the public and is being terminally rejected, leaving the far right as the only alternative on the ballot sheet.
probably a dramatization of the what actually happened
according to Julie Pace from the AP, the Clinton campaign laughed at him for suggesting that Hilary should spend more time in Wisconsin after the primary
Dramatisation =/= real-life. I mean, yes, you're probably right, CNN and the AP have both reported similar things. But at the same time, we won't know for sure until the postmortem behind-the-scenes books are released, so speculation and repeating of these things is, literally, pointless.
We should be focused on what can be done for the future, and how to push the Democrat-minded base (both those registered Dems, and those not) into voting more regularly, both in mid-terms and in Presidential elections. Even if the latter is feet-dragging "I'm not enthused" voting - people who vote based on how much they like the candidate and not how much the policies mean to them or their friends/family are the worst.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Oh shit, I didn't know. Deleting link.
Yeah, it's got a really bad rep, but not everyone knows that outside the UK, so no probs.
Sirpopopop
Member
A critical analysis is more than just an attack.
Oh & you shouldn't whine about personal attacks if you're going to do them yourself.
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