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[AWizardDidIt]

Seriously, what's even the point?

Melee players are nuts. They want something new but they also want the exact same thing. If Nintendo won't make it, they'll set out to do it themselves.

Then again, I guess spending 16 years with stockholm syndrome to a single game would make anyone insane.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

levels look fun

 

[Aaronrules380]

Remember that time Sony was making a Smash Bros. game and we all thought "I hope they don't just straight clone Smash", and then the game came out and we were like "Sorry, we were wrong, you should have just copied the code or something".

Wavedash has some former Project M devs on board. This is a game dedicated to bringing out a platform fighter in the style of Melee, and there are certain staples that you have to bring along if you want to win that audience over. Marth and Fox are iconic, they need to be there. Shine needs to be in that game for people to give it a shot, Ken combos need to be there, I bet you anything that a character will have Falco pillars. They're making the correct moves by evoking it so clearly and shamelessly.

Animations look rough, but pre-alpha.

I'm excited about it, but I really hope they can clean it up and their F2P model isn't trash.

I really doubt they'll get a solid audience by copying melee and doing nothing new or creative. Melee fans will keep playing melee. It doesn't have the appeal of the actual smash characters to draw in casuals. I don't see this getting a big audience

 

[jediyoshi]

Every single bit of that code is likely going to be looked at.

Melee has been broken down and recreated in browser game form at this point, the ability to recreate existing movesets without literally using code is trivial.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Project M is a dead end in terms of growth, a project of their own isn't. Unless you're under the impression the Smash modding scene is at an uptick for some reason.

That's cool. They can try to make their own games. But if they do, they should try to make something new rather than reskinning project m and calling it a new game

 

[Codeblue]

I really doubt they'll get a solid audience by copying melee and doing nothing new or creative. Melee fans will keep playing melee. It doesn't have the appeal of the actual smash characters to draw in casuals. I don't see this getting a big audience

They won a solid audience with PM before Nintendo put on the pressure.

 

[Lucario]

Looks like Rivals of Aether without the good character design and creative movesets.

 

[Aaronrules380]

They won a solid audience with PM before Nintendo put on the pressure.

Which worked because it still had the trappings of Smash.

 

[jediyoshi]

That's cool. They can try to make their own games. But if they do, they should try to make something new rather than reskinning project m and calling it a new game

Is 'reskinning' your shorthand analysis from literally just watching the trailer or a broader way of dictating what game they should be making? Do you see any more or less variance in other games attempting to do the same thing?

 

[Codeblue]

Which worked because it still had the trappings of Smash.

What are the trappings of Smash?

 

[random25]

They won a solid audience with PM before Nintendo put on the pressure.

PM is a modded Smash Bros Brawl though.

 

[Vena]

This just looks like a bootleg.

 

[jnWake]

They could showcase some creativity in a debut trailer lmao.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Looks awful if you ask me.

I don't get why they didn't give wavedashing a better animation. It looked janky in Melee because it was unintentional, no reason to still have it look like this

 

[Aaronrules380]

Is 'reskinning' your shorthand analysis from literally just watching the trailer or a broader way of dictating what game they should be making? Do you see any more or less variance in other games attempting to do the same thing?

Add a new mechanic? Not copy characters pretty much ver batim? Innovate in some way, any way at all?

And saying "Other rip offs do the same thing" isn't really a justification. Not to mention I've never seen a ripoff so blatant before

 

[Oyashrio-Sama]

The characters look... generic. Like random fantasy novel cover generic.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

Melee players are nuts. They want something new but they also want the exact same thing. If Nintendo won't make it, they'll set out to do it themselves.

Then again, I guess spending 16 years with stockholm syndrome to a single game would make anyone insane.

There are elements and mechanics exclusive to Melee that no other game has emulated successfully to this day that make its gameplay extremely compelling, deep, and fun. It's not Stockholm syndrome. We're not nuts. No need to throw shade.

 

[Timeaisis]

Those movesets are literally coppef from Melee. I hope they diversify.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Pathetic.

 

[Codeblue]

PM is a modded Smash Bros Brawl though.

I was replying to someone that said no one would go for something so similar to Melee, which is clearly wrong.

 

[FZeroRacer]

Melee players are nuts. They want something new but they also want the exact same thing. If Nintendo won't make it, they'll set out to do it themselves.

Then again, I guess spending 16 years with stockholm syndrome to a single game would make anyone insane.

How do you feel about Bloodstained?

 

[Aaronrules380]

I was replying to someone that said no one would go for something so similar to Melee, which is clearly wrong.

Nobody will go for something so similar to melee that isn't a smash game and doesn't innovate at all.

 

[Remapped88]

Lol Marth, is that you? I'm always down for new fighting games but I'm not feeling this one. The art style isn't my cup of tea, characters are kinda bland and the sound effects need a TON of work. I don't mind watching future updates though but I still think that Rivals of Aether is still the most solid/best "Smash" clone.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Whats with the Warcraft gnome ?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

People harping on re-skinned Marth, but are we going to ignore that the Goat character LITERALLY has the same entire moveset as Fox including his bicycle kick, forward air, shine-spark, and recovery?

And the green character looks like a cheap Ganon.

=/

 

[Aaronrules380]

How do you feel about Bloodstained?

I mean, at least Bloodstained is copying Iga's own work that he no longer has the rights to work on rather than shamelessly copying someone elses

 

[Neoleo2143]

I had certain expectations in place. But Project M actually ended up pretty different from melee overall despite trying to create a similar feel. I hope that translates here eventually.

I can't help but feel the animation work in PM was way better there than here for some reason.

Also, that Fox rip off is super disappointing. I would have expected a change to Fair for it to not be useless but nope lol.

 

[RM8]

Looks rough and shameless. And those character designs... yeah.

 

[FZeroRacer]

I mean, at least Bloodstained is copying Iga's own work that he no longer has the rights to work on rather than shamelessly copying someone elses

Why doesn't he just make something else though? It's silly to make the same thing over and over again, isn't it?

I mean most of the animations and systems are literally ripped out of Symphony of the Night.

 

[jwhit28]

When people ask "Why not change the assets a little and make your own game" when a fan game is C&Ded I think this reaction is why.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Why doesn't he just make something else though? It's silly to make the same thing over and over again, isn't it?

I mean most of the animations and systems are literally ripped out of Symphony of the Night.

I mean I agree that Iga should innovate with Bloodstained. But again, there's a huge difference between copying your own work and ripping off someone elses

 

[jediyoshi]

Add a new mechanic? Not copy characters pretty much ver batim? Innovate in some way, any way at all?

And saying "Other rip offs do the same thing" isn't really a justification. Not to mention I've never seen a ripoff so blatant before

Who said that? I'm getting a reading on your spectrum of fighters, for all I know, you don't actually see a difference between Smash games themselves, let alone a Street Fighter from a Skullgirls to a Guilty Gear. Your ability to gleam the entirety of a game's depth from a quick cut trailer and double down isn't inspiring faith.

 

[Codeblue]

Nobody will go for something so similar to melee that isn't a smash game and doesn't innovate at all.

I mean no disrespect, but I really don't think you understand why people still play Melee, or what that scene wants out of a game. A lot of people here don't, and that's cool, you can't understand every community.

 

[Daingurse]

Wow, this is a straight-up clone.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Who said that? I'm getting a reading on your spectrum of fighters, for all I know, you don't actually see a difference between Smash games themselves, let alone a Street Fighter from a Skullgirls to a Guilty Gear. Your ability to gleam the entirety of a game's depth from a quick cut trailer and double down isn't inspiring faith.

It's pretty obvious how Smash differs from Street fighter or streetfighter differs from guilty gear. Literally nothing here is unique and as mentioned, some movesets are literally taken verbatim from smash with pretty much no modifications. Is it possible there's something they aren't showing? Sure, but I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[C.Olimar788]

Props for making it F2P. It would have come across as... weird for them to kill PM so unceremoniously and then come back with "hey please buy our game now thanks!"

I have zero problems whatsoever with them copying from Melee considering there is approximately one competitively-focused Smash Bros-like game on the market right now, and it (Rivals of Aether) doesn't get nearly enough attention. Better copy from what made Melee great than throw together slop and end up with PSASBR or something.

Hate the artstyle though, lol. The characters are so boring looking.

Seriously, what's even the point?

Having a Melee-like solid base that can be expanded on later. Basically what PM did except they have to start from scratch to make it an original game - presumably later down the line we will have more interesting characters that diverge from Melee. It's unfortunate we didn't start there but it is what it is.

 

[FoneBone]

Why are devs like this still not releasing 60fps trailers, especially in genres where a high framerate is crucial?

 

[RM8]

When people ask "Why not change the assets a little and make your own game" when a fan game is C&Ded I think this reaction is why.

This reaction comes mostly from the bad animation and characters. If it looked cool, people wouldn't mind that there's Marth and Fox there.

 

[FZeroRacer]

I mean I agree that Iga should innovate with Bloodstained. But again, there's a huge difference between copying your own work and ripping off someone elses

And in this case they're essentially copying off of their own work on Project M. They've done a ton of work and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering Brawl, moreso than if they had just made a game from scratch in the first place.

Plus there's a ton of genres and games that only popped up as a result of imitation. Tribes -> Midair is a great example.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Looks boring and lacks imagination.

Spoiler

just like smash melee fanboys.

 

[Aaronrules380]

And in this case they're essentially copying off of their own work on Project M. They've done a ton of work and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering Brawl, moreso than if they had just made a game from scratch in the first place.

Plus there's a ton of genres and games that only popped up as a result of imitation. Tribes -> Midair is a great example.

Project M is a mod of Brawl. At the end of the day, they didn't add any new ideas. It might have been a lot of work, but there was still no innovation. So no, it isn't copying off their own work. And making a game inspired by something else is fine. I have no problem with that. But there's a difference between taking inspiration from another game and straight up ripping off another game. I'd have no problem with this if they did something, anything, FRESH with the idea. Add a cool new mechanic. Make unique and interesting characters that work within the concept of this new game. Straight up copying an entire character's moveset is creatively bankrupt

 

[Somnid]

When people ask "Why not change the assets a little and make your own game" when a fan game is C&Ded I think this reaction is why.

You mean they can't leverage other's IP to artificially boost interest? Yeah that's kinda the point.

 

[Toxi]

Disappointing. Smash already exists, so there's no point in sticking 100% to its blueprint.

Plus, as much as people talk about mechanics, aesthetics matter. People didn't start playing Melee because of how fun it was to play competitively, they started because it had Mario and Link and Pikachu and looked badass. The negative comparisons to Rivals of Aether, a game with more appealing graphics and character design, is a perfect demonstration of why visuals matter.

Melee players are nuts. They want something new but they also want the exact same thing. If Nintendo won't make it, they'll set out to do it themselves.

Then again, I guess spending 16 years with stockholm syndrome to a single game would make anyone insane.

Man, it really pisses some people off when folks still enjoy old games.

 

[massoluk]

And in this case they're essentially copying off of their own work on Project M. They've done a ton of work and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering Brawl, moreso than if they had just made a game from scratch in the first place.

Plus there's a ton of genres and games that only popped up as a result of imitation. Tribes -> Midair is a great example.

At the end of the day, their work is about copying Melee AGAIN.

 

[FZeroRacer]

Project M is a mod of Brawl. At the end of the day, they didn't add any new ideas. It might have been a lot of work, but there was still no innovation. So no, it isn't copying off their own work. And making a game inspired by something else is fine. I have no problem with that. But there's a difference between taking inspiration from another game and straight up ripping off another game. I'd have no problem with this if they did something, anything, FRESH with the idea. Add a cool new mechanic. Make unique and interesting characters that work within the concept of this new game. Straight up copying an entire character's moveset is creatively bankrupt

What do you mean they didn't add any new ideas? There were a bunch of characters revamped with outright new mechanics (Samus, Lucas, Wario), new modes (Turbo) and more. Arguing that they somehow didn't add any new ideas is just objectively wrong and proves you didn't actually play it.

 

[FSLink]

Yeah....this looks rough.

Rivals of Aether is really cool and creative, and Project M is an awesome mod on Brawl. This looks like it doesn't have the creative aspects of Rivals of Aether, and doesn't have the cool characters that people love from Smash...the ones shown off so far look kinda awful. Not sure who this appeals to, and I'm a huge Smash fan.

What do you mean they didn't add any new ideas? There were a bunch of characters revamped with outright new mechanics (Samus, Lucas, Wario), new modes (Turbo) and more. Arguing that they somehow didn't add any new ideas is just objectively wrong and proves you didn't actually play it.

Project M is freaking great, and it's crazy how in depth the modding got on the Wii.... but it's still a mod of a game. There's some new ideas, but they still had a pretty fantastic base to work off of.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I mean no disrespect, but I really don't think you understand why people still play Melee, or what that scene wants out of a game. A lot of people here don't, and that's cool, you can't understand every community.

So how many people do you think are going to give this game a chance? I think it would be huge if they no longer have tou use fucked up gamecube controllers and SD TVs so those are Pros but then I dont know how much of the charm of Melee for the community is also on the fact that it uses Nintendo characters.

 

[Ross61]

Looks solid. Signed up for the beta.

 

[conpfreak]

Umm..

ATTN Melee fans/Wavedash Games:

Let. It. Go. It's okay to love the awesomeness that is Melee and be inspired to create your own game based on the blueprint set there, but this is a bit much.

 

[FZeroRacer]

At the end of the day, their work is about copying Melee AGAIN.

And at the end of the day, DotA 2 was all about copying DotA. There are seriously a lot of mods turned full-fledged games by virtue of them standing out above the rest. They take what was a good base, improve on it and then spin it off into a full experience.