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[Pieman0920]

Not really seeing the complaints about the designs, they all have distinctive silhouettes, tell me what I need to know about the character at a glance, while also being quite diverse.

Spoiler

Like...there's not a single muscular woman in Smash bros by my knowledge especially not one of Zarya's size....

Do people just not like the artstyle? Because no one seems to be using any sort of specificity about why the designs are bad.

Seeing them all lined like that makes it look like they were taken from Bendis' run of Gaurdians of the Galaxy. There's Angela, Star Lord, Gamora, female Drax, and Rocket

 

[WatTsu]

I was all set to crack wise on this but I watched the trailer and honestly I think it looks pretty okay for a F2P game?

Like, I prefer Smash 4 to Melee and it's not close but honestly for people who want that game I think this is a good solution and I hope it's successful for them. I'll give it a try.

Edit: Also I think them making the Fox clone a goat is pretty funny.

 

[Slamtastic]

Gigantic is down there with Battleborn to me.

Only the girl with the Stand jumps out to me as cool.

Battleborn has the Gentleman Zenyatta with Gun, the Midna-lika girl with multiple arms, the mushroom, the floating waifu who's like Saber with rapiers.

too bad they couldn't be in a better game

 

[Gestault]

Criticism is fine, but the language being used to describe the dislike is rather strong for a game that's free to play and no one is forcing you to play. I feel like if this was the art for a beloved franchise with a huge track record it would make sense, but since it's not and the character designs are passable, not understanding the hate.

As others have also said. There is some strange resentment mixed in. The game already looks 100x better than how PlayStation All Stars turned out and that was a normal release at $60.

You're tone policing, and apparently missing the point. No one is forced to play any game, and free doesn't matter if people take issue with the content. If someone sees a game and thinks it looks terrible, they can say that however they like (within reason). Unless you're making a specific counterpoint you think they overlooked, or you simply want to spell out your appreciation of some aspect of it, it's not your place to tell them what they "can" say.

PlayStation All-Stars was widely regarded as bad game design. Looking better than a bad game means nothing, and it's self-evident that most people don't care about that as a reference point. The clear frustration here is lack of creativity.

 

[Daouzin]

As a Ganon main I'm pretty excited to play this character, if they could combine what I love about Ganon and Falcon from Melee for this character. That would be hype. The trailer showed potential.

PlayStation All-Stars was widely regarded as bad game design. Looking better than a bad game means nothing, and it's self-evident that most people don't care about that as a reference point. The clear frustration here is lack of creativity.

From people that don't play Melee competitively.

Their target audience at this point.

There is still room for them to show their creativity, PM was ridiculously creative. I think people that played PM can trust they will add a unique spin to stuff and people that play Melee want to see that it actually 'plays like' Melee. If they release another trailer before the beta showing off the unique moves in the character move sets I think they'll be in a good spot.

Also, let's be honest.

She's fine. She's not a bad design.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Same, I think if the animations and sounds had been better than this would be less of an issue.

Not great designs but definitely passable.

Specifically I'm reminded of how early Brawl finished looked. when it was first announced. It's F2P so there's absolutely no risk to keep an eye on it and try it out once they start polishing it. I also agree that people are being completely hyperbolic and not actually detailing what's wrong with the designs but rather the art style itself.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

There is still room for them to show their creativity, PM was ridiculously creative. I think people that played PM can trust they will add a unique spin to stuff and people that play Melee want to see that it actually 'plays like' Melee. If they release another trailer before the beta showing off the unique moves in the character move sets I think they'll be in a good spot.

At the moment, I do not.

 

[Daouzin]

At the moment, I do not.

You clearly didn't spend enough time with PM then.

 

[Oberon]

Gigantic is down there with Battleborn to me.

Only the girl with the Stand jumps out to me as cool.

Battleborn has the Gentleman Zenyatta with Gun, the Midna-lika girl with multiple arms, the mushroom, the floating waifu who's like Saber with rapiers.

too bad they couldn't be in a better game

I think Battleborn is a different story, because none of the character in there were really "bland". They were more plagued by overdesign imo
I like some of the Battleborn designs, but saying it's on the same level as gigantic is going to far. And this is my favorite Battleborne design, even thought I know he doesn't actually look great ( still love him tho for some stupid reason)

You clearly didn't spend enough time with PM then.

unfortunatly, the reveal didn't really show any of that

 

[StayDead]

That's... just Melee characters and movesets with a different skin.

I'm not going to complain if it's good, but damn it seems a bit underhanded.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

You clearly didn't spend enough time with PM then.

I was in the PM scene for 3 years, but I'm not given them my trust from this first trailer. Let it bake.

 

[Joey Ravn]

From people that don't play Melee competitively.

Their target audience at this point.

So the main issue with this game is not that aesthetics or the character design. It's that it is not-Melee for Melee players and them alone.

This is a terrible stance to have. I'd love to be able to play Melee well, but I can't because those in the "meta" have been there since 2001 (or so). It's not a game for newbies.

Then these developers come and, by the looks of the trailer, are making the same game as Melee but just different enough that they can pass it as an original product and avoid copyright issues. The "meta" will be the same. Fox will be Fox, Marth will be Marth... just with a different coat of painting.

If that's the case, then I'll stick to Smash 4. At least I know the characters in there :/

 

[Kyne]

The characters look like a bunch of Battleborn/Wildstar clones.

Has there ever been a full fledged anime/smash clone? (not counting the Shonen DS titles)

I feel like that would do a lot better than this weird creature/furry train we have had going on.

Obviously no one could use any mainstream anime characters, but eve creating your own would probably still be better than the alternative.

 

[Protome]

Seeing them all lined like that makes it look like they were taken from Bendis' run of Gaurdians of the Galaxy. There's Angela, Star Lord, Gamora, female Drax, and Rocket

When the ad for this came on during Evo i genuinely thought it was a Mobile Marvel game to start with.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

That's more an animation and meta issue tho, separate from character design altogether. And remember we're talking about Smash where a lot of the designs have clear influences from other media.

I understand a new game needs to be given time to establish itself,but this was a poor show and hurt itself by only showing mechanics.

The dissonance of the characters using 1:1 animations of smash characters creates the issue because their designs will be considered bland, or at the very least, they just don't stand out against their smash counterparts. Let's say someone who knew nothing about Nintendo saw fox for the first time, they might say "generic space furry." However, smash doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has pedigree and history behind it. We care about the characters and like (or tolerate) them and their designs because of their history.
These characters are doing nothing to stand out is the problem. We know nothing about them, and thus their designs are unappealing by extension. But hey, maybe they'll give us something to care about with a later trailer.

Had they done their own thing, the characters animations could have done some of the talking for what the characterization is, but instead we look at them and go, "oh, it's not-marth or not-fox."

 

[PSqueak]

I think Battleborn is a different story, because none of the character in there were really "bland". They were more plagued by overdesign imo
I like some of the Battleborn designs, but saying it's on the same level as gigantic is going to far. And this is my favorite Battleborne design, even thought I know he doesn't actually look great ( still love him tho for some stupid reason)

To me, Pendles is a lot like Orendi, they're solid concepts that only start to look bad when you actually stare at them closely and start to notice they are in fact over designed, they have a good foundation and a solid core concept, but they put too many frills on them.

The "meta" will be the same. Fox will be Fox, Marth will be Marth... just with a different coat of painting.

NO ITEMS! KIDD ONLY! [whatever the final destination ripoff shown in the trailer is called]!

 

[Pieman0920]

Has there ever been a full fledged anime/smash clone? (not counting the Shonen DS titles)

Battle Stadium D.O.N.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

I just like how Daouzin cherry-picks which parts of posts to respond to.

 

[Slamtastic]

Honestly they should just give up on characters and just let you make you own with a moveset.

Like "Space Animal" and "Sword Lord" are movesets you select and apply to a character creator with head, body, etc pieces to put in lootboxes.

 

[Darksim]

At least now we know they were actually working on a game and that's the real reason they discontinued all Project M development and it's not a secret Nintendo takedown conspiracy.

Did people honestly think that??? I thought they just wanted to move away from the mod. Not everything has to be Nintendo's fault. But I guess AM2R might have broken some trust.

Nintendo did shut it down, apparently the truth never made it out into the public? I guess that's just how it works out when you get C&D'ed, but by virtue of being a nobody who happens to know another semi nobody who actually knows someone, I can reveal this unfortunate reality. Given the whole AM2R situation, this should be hardly surprising.

 

[PSqueak]

Honestly they should just give up on characters and just let you make you own with a moveset.

Like "Space Animal" and "Sword Lord" are movesets you select and apply to a character creator with head, body, etc pieces to put in lootboxes.

Now that's an idea!

 

[TwistedFreeze]

Isnt Smash only popular because its Nintendo? I mean this game could be a million times better than Smash but it will fail cause no Mario.

...there are very few, if any games, that are popular because they're made by a certain developer or published by a certain publisher. Smash is popular because they're well designed fun games with tons of content and a relatively low skill floor. If this game fails, it'll be because it just wasn't appealing to most, save for perhaps a few Melee guys or newcomers. I hope it succeeds because the people behind it are pretty talented and did good work with PM. I just think they needed to show off some characters that aren't clearly trying to copy Smash to show how it's different from it. That and the game needs more appealing character designs and art-style as they're both pretty ugly, IMO

 

[flaxknuckles]

Those designs look boring and the goat character straight up makes me wanna vomit. I am surprised the graphics are 3d though. I expected pixel art.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Nintendo did shut it down, apparently the truth never made it out into the public? I guess that's just how it works out when you get C&D'ed, but by virtue of being a nobody who happens to know another semi nobody who actually knows someone, I can reveal this unfortunate reality. Given the whole AM2R situation, this should be hardly surprising.

I mean you can't make it more public than officially clarifying the fact that they're shutting down the project and starting a company was not the result of a C&D.

 

[Giga Man]

Not really seeing the complaints about the designs, they all have distinctive silhouettes, tell me what I need to know about the character at a glance, while also being quite diverse.

Spoiler

Like...there's not a single muscular woman in Smash bros by my knowledge especially not one of Zarya's size....

Do people just not like the artstyle? Because no one seems to be using any sort of specificity about why the designs are bad.

I'm not a fan of the art style, and the character designs don't interest me, but the designs of the characters' moves are what bother me. Most of their moves look like Smash's moves without the flashiness, things that make them stand out. Their animations combined with the replication of Melee's mechanics (like Goat's wave-shining) look awkward, and it's difficult to compare the game to its source of influence without unfavorable criticism. The identities of the characters' designs are present, but the identities of the characters' movesets are absent.

Obviously it's early, and it has time to look better, but what they've shown us so far is... unsatisfactory. At least the artwork on the Icons website is pretty cool. Just wish they did more for the game itself.

 

[LordKasual]

Then there is seeing these bland characters doing their smash counterparts' moves with nearly perfect 1:1 animations creates a really off putting feeling.

Show me three 1:1 animations that aren't the 2 from Marthgirl.

Show me one character from Smash who is similar to the Twin-gun dude. You've got over 50 to choose from.

Do people just not like the artstyle? Because no one seems to be using any sort of specificity about why the designs are bad.

People don't like it because it's not the latest Smash from Nintendo.

People don't like Melee because it's not the latest Smash from nintendo. They didn't like PM for the same reason.

Hell people don't even like mods of Smash 4 because they aren't Sakurai approved.


It's just your typical blind bias

Looks terrible. Smash Bros. without the charm of Nintendo

See.

I cant even make this shit up rofl

 

[Nocturnowl]

I want to punch that Kidd thing in the face so mission accomplished in a roundabout way?

 

[Death Penalty]

Looks terrible. Smash Bros. without the charm of Nintendo, like they just peeled away the beautiful aesthetic. Really not a fan of this "me too!" character design, either. It looks like it's trying to emulate Overwatch and really looking like a cheap knock-off.

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Show me three 1:1 animations that aren't the 2 from Marthgirl.

Show me one character from Smash who is similar to the Twin-gun dude. You've got over 50 to choose from.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScentedEarnestAfricanjacana-mobile.mp4

Its 1:1 Fox

 

[collige]

So the main issue with this game is not that aesthetics or the character design. It's that it is not-Melee for Melee players and them alone.

This is a terrible stance to have. I'd love to be able to play Melee well, but I can't because those in the "meta" have been there since 2001 (or so). It's not a game for newbies.

Then these developers come and, by the looks of the trailer, are making the same game as Melee but just different enough that they can pass it as an original product and avoid copyright issues. The "meta" will be the same. Fox will be Fox, Marth will be Marth... just with a different coat of painting.

If that's the case, then I'll stick to Smash 4. At least I know the characters in there :/

A couple responses to this:
-The complete lack of tutorials and aids for learning the basics of competitve play inside the game of Melee itself is part of this problem. A new game built from the ground up can fix this by having proper tutorials (see: Rivals)
-Melee is not that particularly hard to get into if you're willing to put in the effort. A good chunk of those in the "meta" as you describe it were introduced to the game after the documentary came out in 2013. Syrox and Wizzrobe are good examples of this, the latter didn't start attending tournaments until 2013 and he's currently ranked as the 10th best in the world.
-PM had a drastically different meta compared to vanilla Melee and that had the same characters. While Fox will be Fox and Marth will be Marth, there's no guarantee whatsoever that matchups or their place in the tier list will translate over because it's still a new game

 

[LordKasual]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScentedEarnestAfricanjacana-mobile.mp4

Upsmash, that's #1

Sex kick doesn't count, I can show you that animation in literally every fighting game on earth

Dropkick doesn't count, same reason

Landing animation (wavedash) doesn't count, same reason (that has a wavedash anyway)

Nothing else really counts

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

Upsmash, that's #1

Sex kick doesn't count, I can show you that animation in literally every fighting game on earth

Dropkick doesn't count, same reason

Landing animation (wavedash) doesn't count, same reason

Nothing else really counts

Upsmash, 64 Fair, Shine, Bair, Nair (straight up all the same animations from Smash) all on a Space Animal but it doesn't count. LOL okay. The other characters seemingly aren't as bad (Gun character in particular) but the goat character is straight up blatant. They didn't even try.

Space Goat has a bunch of of Fox's normals just from that trailer, he also has fire fox (you can see the start up of the move in the trailer), Buff orc chick does ganondorf's side b animation, dark skinned girl straight up Falcon punches a character in the trailer.

Like people pointed out, gun guy is the only one who seems original, but we didn't se much of them and what we saw was similar to how pit's bow worked in brawl.

nah dude. the goat character doesn't count because reasons.

 

[PSqueak]

Show me three 1:1 animations that aren't the 2 from Marthgirl.

Show me one character from Smash who is similar to the Twin-gun dude. You've got over 50 to choose from.

Space Goat has a bunch of of Fox's normals just from that trailer, he also has fire fox (you can see the start up of the move in the trailer), Buff orc chick does ganondorf's side b animation, dark skinned girl straight up Falcon punches a character in the trailer.

Like people pointed out, gun guy is the only one who seems original, but we didn't se much of them and what we saw was similar to how pit's bow worked in brawl.

 

[Tawpgun]

I'm genuinley surprised there haven't been more Smash Bros reskins. I like that better than traditional fighting games but don't want to be limited to Nintendo.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Not really seeing the complaints about the designs, they all have distinctive silhouettes, tell me what I need to know about the character at a glance, while also being quite diverse.

Spoiler

Like...there's not a single muscular woman in Smash bros by my knowledge especially not one of Zarya's size....

Do people just not like the artstyle? Because no one seems to be using any sort of specificity about why the designs are bad.

They just aren't good designs, distinctive silhouettes or not.

 

[Lucky Seven]

This looks like it was made exclusively for people looking for a platform fighter- no fuck that- a good Smash clone. I think the problem they've run into is focusing too much on creating that good smash clone, improving on the mechanics and features to make a good fighter alongside the traditional fighting games. Doesn't matter how good your game is, or who is making it, or how long it's taken. If the average window shopper with no understanding of everything said previously sees this, a game with bland visuals and direction, then it goes the route of Battleborn. It's not that hard to avoid being Battleborn. Battleborn is probably much worse than this game!

 

[Crossing Eden]

I understand a new game needs to be given time to establish itself,but this was a poor show and hurt itself by only showing mechanics.

The dissonance of the characters using 1:1 animations of smash characters creates the issue because their designs will be considered bland, or at the very least, they just don't stand out against their smash counterparts. Let's say someone who knew nothing about Nintendo saw fox for the first time, they might say "generic space furry." However, smash doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has pedigree and history behind it. We care about the characters and like (or tolerate) them and their designs because of their history.
These characters are doing nothing to stand out is the problem. We know nothing about them, and thus their designs are unappealing by extension. But hey, maybe they'll give us something to care about with a later trailer.

Had they done their own thing, the characters animations could have done some of the talking for what the characterization is, but instead we look at them and go, "oh, it's not-marth or not-fox."

I'm not a fan of the art style, and the character designs don't interest me, but the designs of the characters' moves are what bother me. Most of their moves look like Smash's moves without the flashiness, things that make them stand out. Their animations combined with the replication of Melee's mechanics (like Goat's wave-shining) look awkward, and it's difficult to compare the game to its source of influence without unfavorable criticism. The identities of the characters' designs are present, but the identities of the characters' movesets are absent.

Obviously it's early, and it has time to look better, but what they've shown us so far is... unsatisfactory. At least the artwork on the Icons website is pretty cool. Just wish they did more for the game itself.

I agree but again that's less a design issue and more a character animation issue. Like how similar the climbing animation in Mordor is to AC.

They just aren't good designs, distinctive silhouettes or not.

Gotta be more specific...

 

[yyr]

My main complaint is that the backgrounds seem lifeless (at the moment).

Beyond that, I personally have no issue with this game. But certainly everyone will be able to tell that it's basically the sequel to Smash Melee and/or Project M. I feel like it's so close that Nintendo may have something to say about it, and regardless of whether they have a right to say anything, their army of lawyers is no doubt bigger.

So I'm worried.

 

[Dark-Cloudz]

Lol - they even have the flashes as the character is knocked off the stage.

Nintendo are going to crawl over that code - I hope they don't find any copypasta

 

[LordKasual]

Upsmash, 64 Fair, Shine, Bair, Nair (straight up all the same animations from Smash) all on a Space Animal but it doesn't count. LOL okay.

Space Goat has a bunch of of Fox's normals just from that trailer, he also has fire fox (you can see the start up of the move in the trailer), Buff orc chick does ganondorf's side b animation, dark skinned girl straight up Falcon punches a character in the trailer.

Like people pointed out, gun guy is the only one who seems original, but we didn't se much of them and what we saw was similar to how pit's bow worked in brawl.

Guess we we need to shit on every fighting game that includes a shoto schematic because of Street Fighter

DP motion = invincible uppercut on Ragna, Hyde, Sol Badguy, Ky Kiske, even Gohan in DBZ Fighters, wow Arc System Works is so fucking uninspired who gives money to these frauds

Someone call up Team Ninja, Namco is throwing a hissy fit because they can spot some character archetype similarities

Akira Toriyama called, he wants recognition from just about every shonen manga on earth

Steam has ALOT of fucking work to do purging all these goddamn shameless "Souls Inspired" clones from their platform


why can't every developer on earth be as flawlessly creative and charming as Nintendo, their products are so amazing that they never make games that bite concepts that were mastered in other games before them

and anyone who tries, ESPECIALLY not a group of humble modders making a lovechild to a game they deeply enjoy (for free), should EVER be allowed to do anything that looks even remotely similar to this untouchable priceless masterpiece

 

[Darksim]

I mean you can't make it more public than officially clarifying the fact that they're shutting down the project and starting a company was not the result of a C&D.

Language is a funny thing, it lets you say things while allowing contradicting possibilities to remain. The only thing funnier is non disclosure agreements. Between getting removed from twitch in multiple steps, having the files taken down (a thing which nobody who has ever worked hard on something wants), and there being an in progress unreleased version of the mod to later surface it should be pretty obvious what was going on. In my region throughout 2014 PM was literally bigger than melee, no one would ever want to throw away such a success only to start over, yet here we are. Given the near universally negative reactions to Icons, I doubt they will ever again reach the success they previously had, and I simply want those thinking that this was their desired choice to know that it was most definitely not.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

I agree but again that's less a design issue and more a character animation issue. Like how similar the climbing animation in Mordor is to AC.


Gotta be more specific...

Well, what I'm trying to say is that they are intertwined in this case. The designs appear boring because they are practically forcing the game to be compared to smash with the similar animations, and smash has a wealth of interesting and well loved designs

And if they appear boring or generic, well, if it looks like a duck...

Shadow of Morodor has the LotR designs to build upon, so even if an animation looks the same, no one will mistake Morodor for Assassin's Creed.

 

[Giga Man]

Honestly they should just give up on characters and just let you make you own with a moveset.

Like "Space Animal" and "Sword Lord" are movesets you select and apply to a character creator with head, body, etc pieces to put in lootboxes.

I'd actually be down for this.

Lol - they even have the flashes as the character is knocked off the stage.

Nintendo are going to crawl over that code - I hope they don't find any copypasta

There are a ton of Smash clones that have similar looking explosion effects for their blast zones. That's most certainly not an issue.

 

[Whompa02]

The physical modeling/execution isn't bad, but the base designs lack any character. They all look completely mundane and uninteresting. Nothing about them are striking or original in any way. They look cliched and inspired from many many other videogame designs in the past.

I'm sure others can go into much greater detail, but the first thing I thought of when I saw these designs is that they look uninspired and totally boring. Nothing about them stood out and made me think that they'd be memorable outside of this game.

 

[TI82]

This will do insanely well if it is well made and doesn't get caught up on legal terms

 

[Acerac]

It's kind of amazing how many people in this thread just showed up to make fun of Melee players.

I wonder how many of these same people ask why these players don't move on to a new game.

 

[TwistedFreeze]

Guess we we need to shit on every fighting game that includes a shoto schematic because of Street Fighter

DP motion = invincible uppercut on Ragna, Hyde, Sol Badguy, Ky Kiske, even Gohan in DBZ Fighters, wow Arc System Works is so fucking uninspired who gives money to these frauds

Someone call up Team Ninja, Namco is throwing a hissy fit because they can spot some character archetype similarities

Akira Toriyama called, he wants recognition from just about every shonen manga on earth

Steam has ALOT of fucking work to do purging all these goddamn shameless "Souls Inspired" clones from their platform


why can't every developer on earth be as flawlessly creative and charming as Nintendo, their products are so amazing that they never make games that bite concepts that were mastered in other games before them

and anyone who tries, ESPECIALLY not a group of humble modders making a lovechild to a game they deeply enjoy (for free), should EVER be allowed to do anything that looks even remotely similar to this untouchable priceless masterpiece

Jeez, dude, relax. You're taking this all way too seriously. The problem with your counterpoint is that most fighting games and Anime and what not do actually try to do something new or different from what they were inspired from. For example, something like Naruto is inspired by Dragon Ball Z but it's so different that you'd have to be reaching real far to say that it's a ripoff. However, in the case of Icons, with some of the characters having legit the same animations as Smash characters, saying that they're basically trying to copy Smash is a fair point. If you wanna take that as spite against the game or Melee from Nintendo or Smash 4 fans, you can, but that's not really the case here as reception is pretty bad across the board

 

[woopWOOP]

I think the characters look alright? Didn't know what I was looking at when the camera was zoomed out, but those zoomed in shots don't look that bad honestly.

Some of the pretty blatant moveset rips are pretty lol, but hey, whatever makes the community happy

 

[Zyrox]

Doesn't look very good. Especially not them copy pasting entire movesets. I usually don't throw that term around but that is just lazy. Why would any Melee fan play this over Melee? At least Rivals of Aether has some ideas of its own.

 

[Jigolo]

Looks terrible