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If you had to choose, what's the best WRPG ever made?

H

Henry Panic

Banned
I've been on a Wrpg binge lately, replaying several classics, some of which take forever to finish.

Arx Fatalis, Oblivion, Morrowind, Dagger fall, Skyrim, Deus Ex, Invisible War, Human Revolution, Ultima series, Baldurs Gate series, Jade Empire, Kotor, Fable ii, Vampire Masquerade bloodlines & redemption, Lands of Lore series, Betrayal st Krondor, Neverwinter Knights, Eye of the beholder 2, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3, New Vegas, Icewind Dale, Starlight, Nox, Wizardry 7 & 8, City of Heroes, Anachronox, Spore, Mount & Blade warband, Dragonshard, Ravenloft stone prophet, Buck Rogers matrix cubed, Black Crypt, Star Control 2, Dragonlord, Castle Master 1 & 2, original Bards Tale, and Risen, are a lot of games, and took a long time to replay, over a year.

While there are a few games I've still yet to complete, it's clear to me that after playing all these games again, many of them being great and stand amongst the best, I have come to a realization.

Oblivion is most likely the greatest Wrpg and greatest Rpg ever made. Nothing can touch it's balance and quality. Not even its own successor.

Does anyone agree? Or do you believe another game deserves that title? If so which one?
 
AlteredForms

AlteredForms

Banned
Ultima_VII_Black_Gate_box.jpg

Ain't no Elder Scrolls: Oblivion without this game. I'm a huge TES fan and have to give it up to Garriot and those people at Origin Studios.
 
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Mozzarella

Mozzarella

Member
No such thing as WRPG imo, people used to refer to the whole thing as RPG and JRPG, the differentiating factor is the "J" because it followed a specific style for many years before finally it merged with the RPGs of today.
The W essentially means its not Japanese, its not a genre, but the word was used in JRPG fans gathering because when they talk about RPGs that are not JRPG they needed something to highlight.
JRPG term used to have meaning that served its purpose, until things changed in the last 2 gens, now its fading.
WRPG term has no meaning aside from "not JRPG" the proof is your list, Deus Ex, Oblivion and Baldur's Gate are all different games. Some people refer to CRPG and ARPG but even that feels half-assed, just say RPG.


Okay so the best RPGs that are not from Japan, hmmm.
I dont have one in particular, but those are the ones that i think deserve highest rating.
PST, BG2, Deus Ex, Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 2, Morrowind goty edition, Witcher 3 goty edition, Divinity Original Sin 2 definitive edition, Mass Effect 2

And each one has different reasoning for me.

Planescape Torment (Writing)
Baldur's Gate II (Complete CRPG package) (DnD Based)
Deus Ex (Immersive-sim excllence)
Fallout 2 (The other side of complete CRPG package) (non DnD)
Fallout New Vegas (Probably the pinnacle of 3D roleplaying, excellent transition from crpg) (If you put a gun to my head and force me to choose this would probably be it)
Morrowind (Open-World sandbox interaction RPG, mods and longevity)
Witcher 3 (2 Peak DLCs and highest cinematic and acting value that is well supported by great side quest writing)
Divinity Original Sin 2 (Best combat and gameplay of a crpg and pinnacle of modern crpgs)
Mass Effect 2 (Best RPG trilogy ever, memorable cast and its a space opera, 2 being the best one as it strikes the best balance between gameplay, rpg and writing and cinematics)


Honorable mentions:

- VTMB (Really fucking good, closest one to the top, if not for the crazy amount of bugs and extremely outdated and janky gameplay, a proper remake by a good dev would easily put it among the best games of all time, has such a high potential)
- System Shock 2 (Near masterpiece, i love this game but im not a big fan of the ending sections, with proper remake it could easily reach the top)
- Arcanum (Has a deep world and its a neat mixture of steampunk and fantasy, extremely janky and rough around the edges, a proper remake or remaster to iron out some minor annoyances would easily put it at the top)
- KOTOR (Again didnt age super well, but its the best star wars content imo, not sure if a remake would actually put it up ahead, but its close)

Honorable mentions i like a lot but not sure if they can be at the top:

- Kingdom Come Deliverance: Really good and immersive rpg, i love the historical context of the game, and its fun to see how you progress, but it has some jank issues and the story isn't quite finished yet, but if you treat it as a chapter it does have a nice closure, i think it has a lot of heart and thats why i love it a lot, i would rate it very high but to put it at a top list would probably be extremely biased by me.
- Gothic 1&2: Kind of the same reasoning, has a lot of heart and incredible atmosphere, the open world is great, same with Gothic 2.
- Fallout: Revolutionary rpg, i like its atmosphere a lot, i think it probably has the best atmosphere in any fallout game, but it doesnt reach the highs of the two above hence it being here.
- Skyrim: Skyrim has its issues, but i'd be lying if i said i didnt have fun with it, probably has the best open world of any RPG, hell of any game ever made lol. Mods.
- Might and Magic 6: Used to play a lot in the old times, but i didnt understand it very well, i think its a really fun game, but doesnt hit that home run.
- Dragon Age Origins: Great lore and worldbuilding, and the only good DA game, its a great fantasy RPG but lacks some things that would put it up ahead with its peers in the fantasy genre.



That's my opinion on those games.
I wish Disco Elysium had more interactions and puzzles to it, that would probably make me rate it higher, but since i played it, i wasn't super impressed with the overall game, i think it does have top 5 writing in any RPG though, so i had to comment about it.
 
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killatopak

killatopak

Member
New Vegas.

But if we could have New Vegas insert itself unto Morrowind quest mechanics then I would have loved it more. Survival mode with no quest markers but npcs and a world that rewards exploration and experimentation.
 
Varteras

Varteras

Gold Member
Single-player: Knights of the Old Republic
Multi-player: World of Warcraft
If I can only choose one, it's the latter.
 
H

Henry Panic

Banned
Says choose one, no one chooses one.

Mozzarella said:
No such thing as WRPG imo, people used to refer to the whole thing as RPG and JRPG, the differentiating factor is the "J" because it followed a specific style for many years before finally it merged with the RPGs of today.
Click to expand...

This never happened. It was Computer and console rpg, not rpg and jrpg.

It's got nothing to do with turn based style, it's mechanical differences in general why people separate them.

Betrayal Krondor is turned based but the similarities between it and Final Fantasy 6 for example, end there.

Evolved1 said:
If I say Dragon's Dogma, will I break this thread?
Click to expand...

No, but not sure it can compare to some of the big bombs listed so far.
 
Laptop1991

Laptop1991

Member
Skyrim or Fallout New Vegas for me, i Played those 2 the most although i loved Oblivion and Fallout 3 as well, and The Witcher 3 deserves a mention also.
 
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Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
Not sure I can pin point one here.

I definitely have a soft spot for Oblivion, never finished it but I love how it starts, probably my favorite RPG start ever, and the world, quests and blank slate character role-playing is all top notch. At the time it was visually awesome too. I loved jumping into that world.

I have an old one I really love as well, Dungeon Master. It’s one of the absolute top dungeon crawler RPGs in my opinion, you had to think about food, water, sleep, torches actually lighting up the darkness and eventually burning out. The magic system was like it’s own language, super advanced. I used to make maps on checkers paper, never finished it but I’ve played quite far and it’s good enough that I could start over today and still love it.

Really enjoyed Baldur’s Gate too, was decades since I played it and it probably don’t hold up today but I had a ton of fun playing that. Still have a boxed copy sitting on a shelf.

And finally I want to add Skyrim VR on PC modded with HIGGS and VRIK here too, or just regular Skyrim on PC with mods, since that’s the western RPG I still play regularly and enjoy. I’ve done actual role-playing, completely ignored going through the main story, and it’s still possible to enjoy it, the world is extremely well thought out and diverse with all it’s characters and quests and dungeons. It’s just a bummer that all combat except bow and stealth combat is super janky, goes for most western RPGs actually. If FROM and Bethesda got together and made a RPG they could make the best game ever made.
 
Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Angry Gary Oldman GIF


Pretty much the genre that i always find something interesting and different between them that it's really hard to have a favorite.
I guess if there's one i played the most, it would be Deus Ex. For purely cRPG isometric, Baldur's gate II.
 
begotten

begotten

Member
ME2 + it's DLC is hard to top overall.

BG2 and PST best old school classics for different reasons that I'd have right under.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
pramod said:
For someone who grew up playing D&D, there is only one answer and that is Baldurs Gate 2.
Click to expand...
I’ve never played Baldur’s Gate 2 🫢
Always thought it seemed like an expansion to BG1 and I was too cheap and never bought it. Is it worth playing today? Maybe on iPad or something with the enhanced edition?
 
Paltheos

Paltheos

Member
Disclaimer: I'm not a big WRPG guy.

Top dog is Fallout: New Vegas, and it's not particularly close. Writing and quest design is unrivaled for what I've seen from real role-playing games (and, love them I may, JRPGs are more akin to linear adventure games)

Runner-up #1 is Planescape: Torment. This game's hurt allot by the jank of the era. Adventuring, combat, and other gameplay is mostly awful, so it's carried entirely by its writing, which is fantastic at its peaks but can't and isn't always there.

Runner-up #2 is Skyrim. It's just so beautiful. Writing isn't on the same level as the other two, but that's not really why you're playing Skyrim.

... I excluded Disco Elysium because it doesn't so neatly fit into a WRPG label (...right?) but I'd slot it between New Vegas and Planescape, I think. Probability rolls suck but the writing in Disco Elysium is so good, man. There's not much "gameplay" in Disco Elysium to speak of, so like Planescape it lives and dies by its writing, and Disco Elysium is more consistently 'on' than Planescape is.
 
StylishMGTOW

StylishMGTOW

Member
If I had to pick, it would be:

  1. Fallout 3
  2. Deus Ex/Human Revolution
  3. Mass Effect 1-2 (haven't played 3)
  4. Skyrim
  5. System Shock 1

Pretty basic list, but they're good games.
 
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