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[loosus]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with finding new Sonic games (specifically for me, the advance and rush series) enjoyable. I know they are not anything like the original game, but does that make it bad or different? Different is not always bad. I do feel for fans of type 2, because the chances of that happening seem to be getting slimmer and slimmer. I like classic Sonic as much as I like Dimps Sonic, just in a different way. Is that really so outlandish?

I wouldn't say it's "wrong," per se. Nonetheless, I would question these people's sanity, taste, age, and ability to conduct business in society without a mentor nearby!

So while liking these games is genuinely possible, other people are asking "Why?" Sorta like asking why some people like cutting themselves.

 

[HUELEN10]

I'd be worried about that considering how bad the shitty friends played in StH360.

If I remember correctly, you ONLY play as the friends if you want. You play as Tails in the Tornado early in the game for example.

 

[HUELEN10]

I wouldn't say it's "wrong," per se. Nonetheless, I would question these people's sanity, taste, age, and ability to conduct business in society without a mentor nearby!

So while liking these games is genuinely possible, other people are asking "Why?" Sorta like asking why some people like cutting themselves.

Come on man. How would you even compare it to that! What makes the dimps games SOOOOOOOOOOO bad?

 

[loosus]

Come on man. How would you even compare it to that! What makes the dimps games SOOOOOOOOOOO bad?

Let's not even talk about the games for a second. Because that isn't REALLY what this is about.

This is really about you -- you and your high tolerance for pain. What is it about you that allows you to play these games and not hate the game, the developer, and yourself?

 

[HUELEN10]

Let's not even talk about the games for a second. Because that isn't REALLY what this is about.

This is really about you -- you and your high tolerance for pain. What is it about you that allows you to play these games and not hate the game, the developer, and yourself?

?
I actually found these games to be fun, the developer to be competent, and it all to be a very fun experience, especially with the Rush games and Advance 3 (Liked 2, but it was a bit TOO fast). This is not about me.

 

[loosus]

Do you cut yourself? (You don't have to answer if that's too personal of a question!)

 

[Azure Dream]

Wow, Loosus, if there was ever a need for the Super Paper Mario "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!" pic, you've earned it.

The Dimps DS games are hardly painful. Advance 1 was rough around the edges, Advance 2 some complain was too easy, Advance 3 had a partner system that didn't turn out well. But when you get to Rush, and especially Rush Adventure, calling them "painful" is just stupid. They're good games, and they may not be "Sonic the marble" as some cry for, but that doesn't mean they aren't good in their own right.

Hate the idea of Chip though. Wasn't there an article that said Tails was a little bit playable at some point? I'd be worried about that considering how bad the shitty friends played in StH360.

From what I remember reading, you play him, but you're really playing as the Tornado flying Sonic from point A to point B.

 

[HUELEN10]

Do you cut yourself? (You don't have to answer if that's too personal of a question!)

Of course not, I save up my razor blades for the trolls.

 

[loosus]

Wow, Loosus, if there was ever a need for the Super Paper Mario "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!" pic, you've earned it.

:lol No, I really just hate these fucking games.

Like, I just don't "get" how you guys have fun with this stuff. To me, there's just NOTHING there. To me, they're empty shells. The controls are decent enough, but it seems like nobody came in and actually created levels for you to play in.

I got through a good portion of the first Rush, and I just hate it.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

If I remember correctly, you ONLY play as the friends if you want. You play as Tails in the Tornado early in the game for example.

Nope, there are sections later on in the game where, for absolutely no reason, you'll have to play as Tails or Rouge maybe knuckles as well. And they all play even crappier than the main characters, which seems to defy possibilities, but there it is.

Do not under-estimate the crappiness of Sonic 360, it is that bad. If this game brings quality bar up to where Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure are, then it's a success. If it brings it up to Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 then it'll be a miracle.

I hope it's great though, I really, really do. I'm not ready to give up hope and move to section 1 just yet.

 

[SapientWolf]

So, in summary:

Speed in the old games was based on skill.

Speed in the new games is easy to obtain, thus ruining the fun.

The solution to this is simple. Find another game where speed is based on skill.

Hmmm.......

I wonder what it could be.......

fixt

 

[AwakenedCloud]

http://blogs.ign.com/SEGA_SonicUnleashed/2008/10/23/104478/

* Sonic is all about speed. Without it, he is not Sonic. So we needed to put absolute priority on the sense of speed and let him dash non-stop on the trackless routes.

* Draw from and improve the classic “Side-Scrolling Sonic” from Genesis. This would surely please loyal Sonic fans.

Bull, Sonic was platforming with a sense of speed, not the other way around. You can't improve on a gameplay that was more or less perfecte; you can try something different, but you've already messed that up countless times. Just throw us fans a bone.

* However, be careful not to end up with just an ordinary side-scrolling game. Because it will be nothing more than a “Nostalgic Sonic” experience. We wanted to make the “Ultimate Sonic” experience.

* Keep platforming gameplay elements in mind too. Speed can be appreciated more with the contrast of differently played, slower in speed areas.

Nostalgia is all Sonic fans have at the moment, there is no future! And with his last comment, he better not be referencing the were-hog levels as the main platforming source...

 

[Teknoman]

Well I highly enjoyed the Sonic Rush titles, and I hated the last two Advance games. While they're ridiculously fast, they have a lot of rhythm to them.

Clearly there is something else afoot with Unleashed (Who's going to be the REAL enemy who's making the shadow monsters Werehog fights?) but it's certainly looking very playable.

Hate the idea of Chip though. Wasn't there an article that said Tails was a little bit playable at some point? I'd be worried about that considering how bad the shitty friends played in StH360.

Probably "Dark Gaia". Heard about it in that Unleashed tour press release. Also yes, werehog does look pretty playable, not something Sonic style (aside from platforming) but not pure crap.

Now while that remains to be seen, most people who play the day time stages (which are alot more than night now) say they were actually pretty fun.

 

[camineet]

For me, the target for visual quality was to be on par with pre-rendered CG animation and I wanted to achieve that goal in this title. Now with high-end hardware such as Xbox 360 and PlayStation3, it’s the right time to be able to achieve this goal.

Utter nonsense.


Xbox 360 and PlayStation3 are little more than "Xbox1 in HD resolution" with more polygons, more/better textures, lighting, better pixel-shaders, HDR, plus a few other things. They're both just an improvement over Xbox, not consoles capable of anything even remotely near "CGI like" visuals.

The Global Illumination they're talking about, isn't realtime. It's completely pre-baked. It's like what RARE did with DKC on SNES with ACM. The SNES can't do pre-rendered quality graphics in realtime. They used computers to pre-render the look first, then take that and have the SNES display it back in 2D. I know I did not explain that very well, but what I am saying is, what they're doing in Sonic Unleashed isn't really much different.

On another note though, this Hedgehog Engine of theirs is absolutely marvelous. It almost feels like you're looking at a playable Pixar cartoon, a look a lot of games could benefit from.

I think that next-gen consoles (XB3, PS4 and perhaps Wii HD) should get alot closer to that. We are still a long ways off from videogames that will even *seem* to kinda of look somewhat like Pixar movie.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Woah, double post, several posts apart...

 

[grandjedi6]

Guys he also said this:


So all hope is not lost

All hope was lost years ago when Sonic Team started to refer to the Adventure games as the pinnacle of the series

 

[Teknoman]

Bull, Sonic was platforming with a sense of speed, not the other way around. You can't improve on a gameplay that was more or less perfecte; you can try something different, but you've already messed that up countless times. Just throw us fans a bone.



Nostalgia is all Sonic fans have at the moment, there is no future! And with his last comment, he better not be referencing the were-hog levels as the main platforming source...

First, not really. Long time Sonic fan and the Rush games are actually pretty fun. So there is a future in the Rush style gameplay. They've already show Unleashed to have more 2.5d platforming than even Rush 1 had. Its got more 3d platforming than all the older 3d Sonic games ever had, even forcing you to stop running and take your time for the platforms.

The max 2.5D non-boost aided running speed is pretty manageable, so lets not get too negative about the game. Hell even the loops arent automated anymore. Grind switching has been vastly improved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26k8STS3nZk
Reddish haired player at 0:50 onward. At 2:15 you can see that he didnt go fast enough to take the higher path, so he had to go through the lower path.

It as well as Black Knight have both defied "The all powerful chart" so lets just wait till release or a demo or something before we skewer the game eh?

 

[AwakenedCloud]

First, not really. Long time Sonic fan and the Rush games are actually pretty fun. So there is a future in the Rush style gameplay.

Difference of opinion I suppose, Aside from the bonus stages, Rush didn't satisfy me at all.

The max 2.5D non-boost aided running speed is pretty manageable, so lets not get too negative about the game.

It as well as Black Knight have both defied "The all powerful chart" so lets just wait till release or a demo or something before we skewer the game eh?

I'm not saying the game is bad, I just strongly disagree with some of the MAIN design decisions.

 

[grandjedi6]

Hey guess what. Most of the Sonic cycle has not been completed and the game is about to release.

It as well as Black Knight have both defied "The all powerful chart" so lets just wait till release or a demo or something before we skewer the game eh?

Man you're picky. But whatever floats your boat:

 

[Teknoman]

Man you're picky. But whatever floats your boat:

HA! Gameplay still isnt same old same old. The second stage has been broken and the prophecy will be fufilled. I win. :lol

 

[Death_Born]

Fixed.

 

[Teknoman]

Curses. I'll be back.

 

[Ixzion]

Spoiler

I tried, GAF.

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

Spoiler

I tried, GAF.

it works


but only just enough

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

It looked to me that Sonic was a bit restrained. I could hear his cry; “I want to run faster! I want to run freely!”

Which is why he decided to put Sonic on rails, obviously. Nothing shouts freedom like "the game plays itself".

 

[RagnarokX]

Which is why he decided to put Sonic on rails, obviously. Nothing shouts freedom like "the game plays itself".

Yeah, "free" from player interaction.

 

[Ramenman]

Guys he also said this:

Keep platforming gameplay elements in mind too. Speed can be appreciated more with the contrast of differently played, slower in speed areas.

So all hope is not lost

BUBUBU LET US BITCH, WILL YOU

 

[Teknoman]

There's two types of people in the Sonic fanbase:

1) Those who have given up any hope that Sega will ever release a good Sonic game again

2) Those who continue to cling to hope that one day their favorite mascot will 'relive his glory days' once again.

The latter of which continues to dwindle with each successive failure.

No doubt, when Unleashed is released, more folks in the "2" crowd will join those in the "1" crowd.

So what if the game releases and its actually fun?

Also none of Unleashed gameplay looks like its on rails...even the "hold right to win" impression doesnt apply to the first stage.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

So what if the game releases and its actually fun?

Also none of Unleashed gameplay looks like its on rails...even the "hold right to win" impression doesnt apply to the first stage.

Then the universe may yet implode upon itself.

In all seriousness though, I do hope it is fun. But I just don't see it happeneing.

Well I highly enjoyed the Sonic Rush titles, and I hated the last two Advance games. While they're ridiculously fast, they have a lot of rhythm to them.

Yeah, I don't include the portable games in the same mix of shitty Sonic games of the last 10 or so years. I was referring strictly to the 'main' series of console games. I really enjoyed the Rush series, for what they were.

 

[Naruto]

Who cares about the graphics if the fucking game runs on 30fps? That's really lame for a game that's all about speed and flow.
BTW, the flow of the game looks really bad, Sonic keeps bumping into stuff which slows him down. Reminds me of Sonic And The Secret Rings.

 

[Skiptastic]

I know Sonic isn't all about speed, it's about fun platforming and all, but does someone want to go off on a rant about what makes Sonic great instead of just facepalming the whole "Sonic = Speed" thing? I'd like to hear it.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

The early Sonic games worked because Sonic was a fast creature in a slow world. He had a distinct advantage. Things like crushing walls and such were too much for someone of average speed but Sonic could burn through several at a time with enough momentum. While Mario(as an example) would have to jump from platform to platform Sonic could with a single good running leap go over a large number of those platforms.

That all kind of fell apart in the Sonic Adventure games. Apparently Sonic is just fast enough to barely outrun a semi or a killer whale. Aside from that the levels are designed entirely for speed. Apparently the rest of the world has caught up with Sonic's speed so the only time you see Sonic really put his abilities to any real advantage is through various glitches(dig up some SA1 & 2 speedruns sometime, really impressive stuff)

Course it doesn't help that for the most part Sonic's 3D outings have been terribly designed and suffer from numerous technical issues. And while the Rush games are an improvement they still have the "Fast Sonic/Fast World" style of design which IMO really doesn't fit.

 

[Rlan]

Team Xbox have an exclusive look a an unseen level - Adabat, the "Beach" level.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/2326/Sonic-Unleashed-Exclusive-Level-Reveal/p1

The framerate seems to drop significantly during the video. It also looks like they really wanted to remake the Sonic 2006 Beach level, specifically the "walking on water" pieces.

 

[Teknoman]

Who cares about the graphics if the fucking game runs on 30fps? That's really lame for a game that's all about speed and flow.
BTW, the flow of the game looks really bad, Sonic keeps bumping into stuff which slows him down. Reminds me of Sonic And The Secret Rings.

He doesnt if you dont go blitzing through the stage when you arent supposed to.

And I think (hope) the small fps drops in the Abadat video are just from the video itself (they try to do little stylized slowdown segments in the video just for transitions it seems. They even added sounds on top of the trailer to try to match things for some reason. Messed up and used the ring drop noise for the ring collect noise (no its not like that in game from what i've seen).

As far as running at 30fps goes, Sonic Adventure 1 was one of the "better" 3d Sonic titles and that ran at 30.

 

[Diablohead]

I stopped reading it after he said sonic is all about speed as his first bullet point.

 

[Skiptastic]

The early Sonic games worked because Sonic was a fast creature in a slow world. He had a distinct advantage. Things like crushing walls and such were too much for someone of average speed but Sonic could burn through several at a time with enough momentum. While Mario(as an example) would have to jump from platform to platform Sonic could with a single good running leap go over a large number of those platforms.

That all kind of fell apart in the Sonic Adventure games. Apparently Sonic is just fast enough to barely outrun a semi or a killer whale. Aside from that the levels are designed entirely for speed. Apparently the rest of the world has caught up with Sonic's speed so the only time you see Sonic really put his abilities to any real advantage is through various glitches(dig up some SA1 & 2 speedruns sometime, really impressive stuff)

Course it doesn't help that for the most part Sonic's 3D outings have been terribly designed and suffer from numerous technical issues. And while the Rush games are an improvement they still have the "Fast Sonic/Fast World" style of design which IMO really doesn't fit.

Thanks! That's a well reasoned elucidation.

My biggest problem with the 3D Sonic games have been camera issues and never feeling like I could move around like a 2D Sonic game without having him constantly pull to a stop and walk the other way. Mario never did that shit for me in Mario 64. It was just a colossal pain in the ass.

 

[Bizzyb]

Why are some people acting upset that the guy said sonic is about speed? Umm last time I checked Sonic WAS all about speed. There will and always have been obstacles/platforming involved as well...but speed is Sonic's main draw. Always has been and always will be....

WTF are you guys on about??

 

[Varjet]

As more rings are collected, more energy would be accumulated, and by gathering the rings, it would also allow Sonic to “Sonic Boost”, the fast acceleration feature. [...] Using the “Sonic Boost” is very thrilling and you will quickly become addicted to using it.

Sounds like F-Zero to me.

 

[bdouble]

Uh... do you know how fast hedgehogs move?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3dgUlfeLcw

Sonic shouldn't be much faster than Mario is when you hold the B button.

Umm I've owned a pigmy hedghog and they aren't real slow. They can sprint and are quite fast for their short legs. Not to mention they kick ass. Anyways yeah. Facepalm.gif at this article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcaaDNKRepY

 

[grandjedi6]

Why are some people acting upset that the guy said sonic is about speed? Umm last time I checked Sonic WAS all about speed. There will and always have been obstacles/platforming involved as well...but speed is Sonic's main draw. Always has been and always will be....

WTF are you guys on about??

Nope. At least not in the way Sonic Team views speed. Sonic games use to be about tight platforming and the fact that Sonic moved much faster than Mario (hence the speed marketing aspect). However the big difference between old Sonic and new Sonic is that speed use to be optional. When playing the genesis titles a player would usually go rather slowly (in comparison) through levels as they learned the level design. But as they got better at the game and levels they would be able to complete them faster and faster to get a better score. Nowadays though Sega views Sonic as speed 24/7. Thus Sonic almost always races through a level which hurts both the level design and platforming.

 

[Blueblur1]

Team Xbox have an exclusive look a an unseen level - Adabat, the "Beach" level.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/2326/Sonic-Unleashed-Exclusive-Level-Reveal/p1

The framerate seems to drop significantly during the video. It also looks like they really wanted to remake the Sonic 2006 Beach level, specifically the "walking on water" pieces.

The Buzz Bomber look-alike monsters are a nice touch.

 

[Azure J]

I know Sonic isn't all about speed, it's about fun platforming and all, but does someone want to go off on a rant about what makes Sonic great instead of just facepalming the whole "Sonic = Speed" thing? I'd like to hear it.

Late to this but, go back and look at my posts in this thread. Also PepsimanvsJoe & grandjedi6, great insights.

 

[Gagaman]

fixt

The irony is that fix shows a game that was very similar to what Sonic games are like now: pushing forward, doing the odd jump and trick, and never stopping.

I can't remember who it was that said it, but someone compared the original sonic games to a marble rolling around. Those Sonic games were mainly about momentum, building up speed using the scenery around you so you can find the shortest route or overcome a dead end. For example: you jump and fall into a deep pit with slopes in the Casino night zone. What do you do? You run up and down the slopes until your momentum makes you fast enough to reach back up to the top of the pit you fell in.

I think the main problem isn't so much the fact that Sonic is fast, but that he never seems to roll anymore on scenery like hills to build that speed. Now you have speed boost pads everywhere and enemies can be pushed aside by just running into them with a boost. Sonic 1 and CD relied a lot more on platforming, but in Sonic 2 and 3K you could blitz your way through a level with the right timing and momentum. If you slowed down you'd end up on another route with more platforming.

I think they have the right ideas at heart about giving you different routes based on your speed, but their execution of it still looks to be a little too automated. There's barely any physics involved, just the need to push the right buttons at the right time. I'm still glad they're at least pushing for 2D gameplay in places of Sonic Rush caliber, though. Really need a demo of this near the release.

 

[Azure Dream]

Team Xbox have an exclusive look a an unseen level - Adabat, the "Beach" level.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/2326/Sonic-Unleashed-Exclusive-Level-Reveal/p1

The framerate seems to drop significantly during the video. It also looks like they really wanted to remake the Sonic 2006 Beach level, specifically the "walking on water" pieces.

There are so many parts of that trailer where I see the things like in Heroes, "Hit this one trigger up in mid-air or you die." I was cringing when I saw the spring surrounded on all sides by spikes, like that's not going to be a source of frustration.

One of the things Heroes did horribly was that it expected you to land on to grind rails over death pits after long falls, and it had a nasty habit of shifting the camera just before you landed, which meant your control shifted, which meant you were just a little off and fell to your death. I keep seeing things like that here, really awkward gameplay cameras (excluding the obvious trailer-specific stuff) and I'm left wondering if that's a 2d gameplay segment or a 3d gameplay segment, how forgiving the game's really going to be, et cetera.

 

[evilromero]

I called this from the very beginning. These designers have no fucking clue.

 

[ShadiWulf]

just a heads up, theres a new Wii trailer for Shamar on the SEGA FTP

ftp://segapr.segaamerica.com/SEGA_G... Unleashed Shamar Wii Trailer - October 24th/

takes ages for downloading and your gonna kill your PC if its old while trying to run this video.

 

[Azure J]

just a heads up, theres a new Wii trailer for Shamar on the SEGA FTP

ftp://segapr.segaamerica.com/SEGA_G... Unleashed Shamar Wii Trailer - October 24th/

takes ages for downloading and your gonna kill your PC if its old while trying to run this video.

Holy shit, I clicked the link and saw 13 hours to download and was reminded of my 56k days. :lol

Thank God it was just the "warm up" though.

 

[NTom64]

just a heads up, theres a new Wii trailer for Shamar on the SEGA FTP

ftp://segapr.segaamerica.com/SEGA_G... Unleashed Shamar Wii Trailer - October 24th/

takes ages for downloading and your gonna kill your PC if its old while trying to run this video.

Holy 645mb download, Batman...

I'm not gonna download that just to watch it once and then delete it...

Spoiler

Yes I am :lol

 

[toneroni]

crossing my toes on this one...

 

[Bizzyb]

Nope. At least not in the way Sonic Team views speed. Sonic games use to be about tight platforming and the fact that Sonic moved much faster than Mario (hence the speed marketing aspect). However the big difference between old Sonic and new Sonic is that speed use to be optional. When playing the genesis titles a player would usually go rather slowly (in comparison) through levels as they learned the level design. But as they got better at the game and levels they would be able to complete them faster and faster to get a better score. Nowadays though Sega views Sonic as speed 24/7. Thus Sonic almost always races through a level which hurts both the level design and platforming.

He doesn't "Always" have to speed through a course. In every Sonic game there are plenty of times when you can just stop and look around and look for different paths to take. I don't know what you are talking about.