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[ZealousD]

I loved the old Genesis games, and I loved the Rush games.

What makes many 3D Sonic games horrible is either a lack of polish or useless gimmicks. What is ultimately going to make this game bad is the werehog portions, not the speed portions.

Some of you people are so focused on nostalgia that you can't see that Sonic can grow into a speed platformer and still be good. The real problem is, Sonic Team seems focused on crapping out at least one game a year while shoehorning in some kind of unfun gimmick.

Further, the only reason people hate the "shitty friends" is that the bulk of them are associated with bad gameplay mechanics. Case in point, "shitty friend" Blaze has no negative connotations associated with her.

 

[bucklam66]

I know no one will care considering my post count, but, this sounds pretty good. i wish it were pure 2d, but let us wait and see ( i can only hope it brings back my 11 year old wonder at watching sonic go through hoops as my eyes and head followed).

 

[Teknoman]

I loved the old Genesis games, and I loved the Rush games.

What makes many 3D Sonic games horrible is either a lack of polish or useless gimmicks. What MIGHT make this game bad are werehog portions, not the speed portions.

Some of you people are so focused on nostalgia that you can't see that Sonic can grow into a speed platformer and still be good. The real problem is, Sonic Team seems focused on crapping out at least one game a year while shoehorning in some kind of unfun gimmick.

Further, the only reason people hate the "shitty friends" is that the bulk of them are associated with bad gameplay mechanics. Case in point, "shitty friend" Blaze has no negative connotations associated with her.

Fixed. Seriously. We dont know if its actually fun to play as the beast or not.

 

[RagnarokX]

I loved the old Genesis games, and I loved the Rush games.

What makes many 3D Sonic games horrible is either a lack of polish or useless gimmicks. What is ultimately going to make this game bad is the werehog portions, not the speed portions.

Some of you people are so focused on nostalgia that you can't see that Sonic can grow into a speed platformer and still be good. The real problem is, Sonic Team seems focused on crapping out at least one game a year while shoehorning in some kind of unfun gimmick.

Further, the only reason people hate the "shitty friends" is that the bulk of them are associated with bad gameplay mechanics. Case in point, "shitty friend" Blaze has no negative connotations associated with her.

No, I'd say the speed portions are just as at fault. Just because gameplay has changed doesn't mean it has changed for the better. Sonic Team changed a lot over the years, and they got it in their heads somehow that Sonic is about speed and that since new technology could allow him to go even faster they should speed him up. Allowing him to go to a higher max speed isn't inherently a bad thing; the problem lies in the fact that he pretty much accelerates from 0 to max speed almost instantly, and then they add a boost button so he accelerates even faster.

It used to be that Sonic had to build up speed to get around certain obstacles. You could use spin dash to build that acceleration up faster, but it cost you the ability to stop sonic without jumping. In the latest games, there is very little reason to use spin dashing or even rolling in a ball. Since Sonic can reach high enough speed fast without it and he can just plow through enemies with boosts.

Enemies have taken a major it since the Genesis era too. They used to be imaginative robots based on animals, and they'd be unique to each area. Now they are mostly humanoid and generic.

The biggest disappointment I have with the series is level design. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a masterpiece. It has great level design. Lots of platforming, lots of secret passages, lots to explore. You don't just speed through them. All 3 characters go through the same levels with few exceptions, but each character can take optional paths based on their abilities.

Don't get me wrong; Sonic Rush was fun, and the Sonic segments of Sonic Unleashed look fun. It's just that the Genesis games are better and I and many would like to see the series shift back in that direction.

Edit: and the problem with the friends is that they don't add anything to the series. It was the most obvious in Sonic Heroes where you had 12 characters split into 4 teams of 3 characters that all basically had the same skill set with minimal differences. If they are just going to do that, then just give us Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

The problem is the scripted sequences. The game plays itself. Sonic used to be good because of the ability to exploit the physics of the game ontop of the exploration. Please don't make me pull out the old Sonic physics diagrams.

 

[Firestorm]

Remember, that is one of the first images that ever appeared when Unleashed was leaked. it could be what you are talking about, I doubt it isn't.

 

[Yoshi]

The problem is the scripted sequences. The game plays itself.

I don't get why this is always stated in Sonic topics around here, altough it's factually wrong.

 

[Teknoman]

:lol Cant be unseen.

 

[ZealousD]

Don't get me wrong; Sonic Rush was fun, and the Sonic segments of Sonic Unleashed look fun. It's just that the Genesis games are better and I and many would like to see the series shift back in that direction.

I simply can't see old school Sonic working on consoles anymore. The gaming environment has changed. It'd work on handhelds, but not consoles.

The Sonic Adventure basic template was good, and the Sonic Rush/Secret Rings style they're going for on Unleashed looks good, it's just Sega can't help but ruin all of that by rushing out a product with dumb gimmicks.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

There's still a lot to worry about with Sonic Unleashed.

I've been slowly softening (very, very slowly) to the Werehog stuff. It still doesn't fit in the Sonic franchise as far as I'm concerned, but then again, by that definition, neither did E-102 Gamma's shooting gameplay in Sonic Adventure, and that was pretty awesome.

But one complaint that seems to be creeping up out of this is that there's not enough to do in speed stages. Regardless of whether or not the game "plays itself" (something I flip-flop about being good or bad, considering how scripted SA1 and SA2 could be), there just doesn't seem to be a lot of variety in stages.

Sure, each level looks different, but so far, most stages seem to contain identical hazards with identical enemies. The only new enemy we've seen since this game was first unveiled was in the Abadat trailer - the Werehog fights some glowy bee-things with huge stingers.

Part of the reason I hold Sonic Rush Adventure in such high regard is because there's actually a good amount of variety in the game:

Plant Kingdom has the giant bouncy mushrooms, the living trees that throw you around, and unique enemies (pterodactyls, rhinos and piranhas).

Machine Kingdom has the breakable steam vents, hang-glider sections, speed tubes, the 3D drums, and, again, unique enemies (robots with steam guns and robots with wrenches).

Coral Cave has those mining pulleys, mining scoops, angled crystals, mine carts, falling rock platforms, and of course, unique enemies (bats, crabs, and angler fish).

What does Sonic Unleashed have?

Apotos has dash pads, spikes, grind rails, crates and the same five enemies that appear in the rest of the game.

Spagonia has dash pads, spikes, grind rails, crates and the same five enemies that appear in the rest of the game.

Shamar has dash pads, spikes, grind rails, crates and the same five enemies that appear in the rest of the game.

Nobody at SonicTeam seems to have a lick of creativity in them anymore at all. I mean, the fact that they're basically using real-world locations (despite them being renamed recently to stupid nonsense - remember, early demo units for this game called them by their real-world names) is proof enough that there's little creativity in this game. Anybody can simply use real-world locations; it takes an active imagination to craft new places to visit.

If Sonic Unleashed is fun, I'd imagine it won't be fun for long periods of play.

 

[gwiz210]

I'm looking forward to this game quite a bit.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Nobody at SonicTeam seems to have a lick of creativity in them anymore at all. I mean, the fact that they're basically using real-world locations (despite them being renamed recently to stupid nonsense - remember, early demo units for this game called them by their real-world names) is proof enough that there's little creativity in this game. Anybody can simply use real-world locations; it takes an active imagination to craft new places to visit.

It does take creativity to place a fake character in a real-world environment and make it look good. See Space Jam.

 

[gwiz210]

It does take creativity to place a fake character in a real-world environment and make it look good. See Space Jam.

Everybody get up it's time to slam now
We got a real jam goin' down
Welcome to the Space Jam
Here's your chance, do your dance at the Space Jam
Alright....

Come on and slam, and welcome to the jam
Come on and slam, if you wanna jam

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

It does take creativity to place a fake character in a real-world environment and make it look good. See Space Jam.

...no it doesn't.

Realism is not creativity. Taking inspiration from the real-world is not creativity. You're essentially looking at what already exists, and trying to re-create it.

Putting a cartoon character in the real world would be creative if it hadn't been so much already. No, all that takes nowadays is a little bit of technology. Technology isn't really creativity either, at least, not in the artistic sense.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Putting a cartoon character in the real world would be creative if it hadn't been so much already. No, all that takes nowadays is a little bit of technology. Technology isn't really creativity either, at least, not in the artistic sense.

So I'm taking it you'd prefer them to have a water, ice, fire, desert, and future themed world like every sonic game in the past 15 years, that'd be more creative, wouldn't it?

 

[Azure J]

So I'm taking it you'd prefer them to have a water, ice, fire, desert, and future themed world like every sonic game in the past 15 years, that'd be more creative, wouldn't it?

When done right, yes. There's a reason Green Hill Zone stands the test of time as one of video games best first levels while being nothing more than a hill with some cool waterfall in the background at it's lowest artistic level.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

So I'm taking it you'd prefer them to have a water, ice, fire, desert, and future themed world like every sonic game in the past 15 years, that'd be more creative, wouldn't it?

In a certain sense? Yes.

Because let's face it. Which would you rather prefer Sonic visit?

Ice Cap Zone, or Alaska? Because Sonic Unleashed has a level called "Holoska" set in a snowy region.

 

[Infernal Monkey]

So I'm taking it you'd prefer them to have a water, ice, fire, desert, and future themed world like every sonic game in the past 15 years, that'd be more creative, wouldn't it?

It'd certainly be a lot more interesting.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

I think its a welcome change of pace. I don't approve of the name holoska though, sounds like a holocaust that happened over Ska music... Should've just stuck with Alaska.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Creativity in levels is one thing that Sonic Team USA excelled at Sega.

Look at Heroes and Nights JoD. Heroes had a lot of variety in levels, so much that you'd wonder how the fuck the characters got to each of them, like being in a forest and then to a haunted house?

Nights had great fantasy art direction.

In fact I think it's Takashi Iizuka, the head of the studio designed the levels (and created Shadow himself).

I wonder if they're part of the Unleashed team, as the studio no longer exists.

If they're not, then what the hell are they up to?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Shamar is also the desert/egyptian themed level.

Abadat is the beachy/jungle level.

Empire City will most likely be the highway/city level.

Holoska will be the snow/ice level.

The only difference here is that these places are based off of real-world locations rather than made-up ones, which means my point still stands regarding a lack of creativity.

Also: All these names are stupid as hell and feel like somebody just mashed the keyboard until something that looked sort of like a word came up.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Creativity in levels is one thing that Sonic Team USA excelled at Sega.

Look at Heroes and Nights JoD. Heroes had a lot of variety in levels, so much that you'd wonder how the fuck the characters got to each of them, like being in a forest and then to a haunted house?

Nights had great fantasy art direction.

In fact I think it's Takashi Iizuka, the head of the studio designed the levels (and created Shadow himself).

I wonder if they're part of the Unleashed team, as the studio no longer exists.

If they're not, then what the hell are they up to?

The original NiGHTS had fantastic art direction. I can't speak for JoD.

Sonic Heroes had good graphics design, but as far as level variety there was still very little. It was, again, the same five enemies in every level and very little in the way of unique level objects (oh look, another kart sequence. I didn't get enough of that in the other three levels it appeared in).

(Edit: Shit, I meant to edit my other post if nobody had responded so I wouldn't double post)

 

[Azure J]

You know what random little thing I miss? Zones. Why did they change the names in development? I remember a while back hearing that Apatos was originally designated "Windmill Island Zone".

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Shamar is also the desert/egyptian themed level.

Abadat is the beachy/jungle level.

Empire City will most likely be the highway/city level.

Holoska will be the snow/ice level.

The only difference here is that these places are based off of real-world locations rather than made-up ones, which means my point still stands regarding a lack of creativity.

The fact that they tried something new is creative in my eyes. If Nintendo were to make a realistic mario at this point in time, I'd consider it more creative than Mario Galaxy 2 most likely. To me, creativity in gaming is a company going in a direction they haven't taken before. While some of the concepts are taken from real environments - in all due respect, they look nothing like their real world counterparts.

 

[[Nintex]]

The fact that they tried something new is creative in my eyes. If Nintendo were to make a realistic mario at this point in time, I'd consider it more creative than Mario Galaxy 2 most likely. To me, creativity in gaming is a company going in a direction they haven't taken before. While some of the concepts are taken from real environments - in all due respect, they look nothing like their real world counterparts.

The best part about non-realistic settings is the creative freedom it creates. Just compare Super Mario Sunshine to Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo had to work with the tropical island setting, which was limited. In Super Mario Galaxy they could design floating cookies and spaceships, nothing looks out of place in a fantasy world.

That's why SEGA shouldn't work with real world locations. Although I'm quite a fan of the Sonic Adventure games

 

[Oblivion]

The fact that they tried something new is creative in my eyes. If Nintendo were to make a realistic mario at this point in time, I'd consider it more creative than Mario Galaxy 2 most likely. To me, creativity in gaming is a company going in a direction they haven't taken before. While some of the concepts are taken from real environments - in all due respect, they look nothing like their real world counterparts.

They tried that shit with Sunshine, and nearly everyone hated it (or at least disliked it quite a bit).

But hey, a bunch of people like different things, so Holaska to you might be Termina to certain Zelda fans.

 

[Blueblur1]

The whole premise of the game is absurd IMO. It's not surprising that the stage names are retarded. But to avoid a massive disappointment my expectations are set to very low. I advise that everyone else do the same.

If its halfway decent then I won't hate it as much as I hate Sonic 2006.

 

[youngleaves]

Sonic IS about speed, and always has been about speed. What are you guys blabbering about(no offense intended). Back in the 16 bit days all the marketing was, "oh Sonic's so fast, look how fast he goes."

Look at the Gamerankings.com scores for the original Sonic Adventure games. They had far more side characters than Sonic Unleashed does and they still got great reviews. The fact is, if the game is enjoyable, it will be enjoyed. And right now it's looking good and getting positive previews.

Also, every single Sonic game from Sonic 2 onwards has introduced new characters. So to say "oh! no new characters!" is just finding a reason to complain. If you guys enjoyed most of the gameplay of the extra characters in the other 3d sonics, it likely wouldn't be a worry.

To me, Sonic Unleashed is looking like the best Sonic ever. And I say that as a 21 year old who grew up playing Sonic on Genesis.

And I'll tell you why, aside from the beautiful art design of the levels, this is the first game where Sonic looks like he really lives up to his billing, speed wise. I remember watching the old Sonic tv show, where Sonic would zoom off into the horizon. Then I would play the games and yeah, he was pretty fast, but aside from with the super sneakers he wasn't all that fast. Though the running on water in Sonic 3(which I never owned until now on Ps2 is pretty awesome)

Anyway, hopefully this will be polished and smoothed out by release. They've certainly improved the framerate, and Sega seems to know that this game is very important for the character's legacy.

 

[Firestorm]

There is a difference between marketing and actual gameplay. There is also a difference to how speed is approached in 2d and 3d Sonic games. Also, nobody liked how the new characters post-Knuckles played

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Is Shadow in this one?

I remember reading an interview with Sumo Digital before Sega Superstars Tennis came out, and I think they said on the market research they did for the characters for that game, kids actually like Shadow more than Sonic. So fucking funny. I guess kids just love a bad guy.

 

[Diablohead]

Is Shadow in this one?

I remember reading an interview with Sumo Digital before Sega Superstars Tennis came out, and I think they said on the market research they did for the characters for that game, kids actually like Shadow more than Sonic. So fucking funny. I guess kids just love a bad guy.

coming from sega we will probably get an overpriced unlock key for shadow and big etc.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

coming from sega we will probably get an overpriced unlock key for shadow and big etc.

 

[lopaz]

Sonic in a Mario Galaxy style engine could work. Just look at stuff like Sonic Jam to see that you could have a proper platformer style with a fast character, he doesn't need to go lightspeed.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Newest Amazon Dates.... looks like they might work on the 360 version and PS3 versions for a bit longer...

Wii: Nov 18th
PS3: Dec 12th
360: Nov 24th
PS2: Nov 18th

 

[Teknoman]

Sonic in a Mario Galaxy style engine could work. Just look at stuff like Sonic Jam to see that you could have a proper platformer style with a fast character, he doesn't need to go lightspeed.

Sonic X-treme seemed to be that idea.

 

[lopaz]

Sonic X-treme seemed to be that idea.

Yeah, though imo it also looked poor, which points to the real problem: they aren't talented enough to make a good game like that.

 

[jman2050]

Sonic IS about speed, and always has been about speed. What are you guys blabbering about(no offense intended). Back in the 16 bit days all the marketing was, "oh Sonic's so fast, look how fast he goes."

Look at the Gamerankings.com scores for the original Sonic Adventure games. They had far more side characters than Sonic Unleashed does and they still got great reviews. The fact is, if the game is enjoyable, it will be enjoyed. And right now it's looking good and getting positive previews.

Also, every single Sonic game from Sonic 2 onwards has introduced new characters. So to say "oh! no new characters!" is just finding a reason to complain. If you guys enjoyed most of the gameplay of the extra characters in the other 3d sonics, it likely wouldn't be a worry.

To me, Sonic Unleashed is looking like the best Sonic ever. And I say that as a 21 year old who grew up playing Sonic on Genesis.

And I'll tell you why, aside from the beautiful art design of the levels, this is the first game where Sonic looks like he really lives up to his billing, speed wise. I remember watching the old Sonic tv show, where Sonic would zoom off into the horizon. Then I would play the games and yeah, he was pretty fast, but aside from with the super sneakers he wasn't all that fast. Though the running on water in Sonic 3(which I never owned until now on Ps2 is pretty awesome)

Anyway, hopefully this will be polished and smoothed out by release. They've certainly improved the framerate, and Sega seems to know that this game is very important for the character's legacy.

I feel like throwing up after reading this.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

The best part about non-realistic settings is the creative freedom it creates. Just compare Super Mario Sunshine to Super Mario Galaxy. Nintendo had to work with the tropical island setting, which was limited. In Super Mario Galaxy they could design floating cookies and spaceships, nothing looks out of place in a fantasy world.

That's why SEGA shouldn't work with real world locations. Although I'm quite a fan of the Sonic Adventure games

I can definitely understand where you're coming from but there is a difference. Sunshine was limited to a tropical setting, but Adventure, Adventure 2, and Unleashed have a worldwide setting. But yes, the setting does narrow some of the things they can do I suppose, but Shadow of the Collousus was one of the most creative & artistic games and it all took place in a valley in the middle of nowhere.

 

[grandjedi6]

Sonic IS about speed, and always has been about speed. What are you guys blabbering about(no offense intended). Back in the 16 bit days all the marketing was, "oh Sonic's so fast, look how fast he goes."

Yeah it was marketed that way but as its been explained the old Sonic games were never about pure speed.

Look at the Gamerankings.com scores for the original Sonic Adventure games. They had far more side characters than Sonic Unleashed does and they still got great reviews. The fact is, if the game is enjoyable, it will be enjoyed. And right now it's looking good and getting positive previews.

Is gamerankings really the best you can do to defend Sonic Adventure? I think its pretty well accepted that the Adventure games were overrated when first released (Dreamcast fans a little too wow'd by 3D sonic me thinks). Oh and everything gets good previews.

Also, every single Sonic game from Sonic 2 onwards has introduced new characters. So to say "oh! no new characters!" is just finding a reason to complain. If you guys enjoyed most of the gameplay of the extra characters in the other 3d sonics, it likely wouldn't be a worry.

Yeah and thats one of the flaws of the franchise. The first few "friends" had a purpose: Tails brought a new interesting dynamic and 2P, Knuckles was a rival but more importantly brought his own spin on the Sonic gameplay, and Amy... well she was just stupid but I think having a damsel in distress isn't too outrageous of an idea to swallow. Everyone else has ranged from decent (Blaze) to annoying as hell (Big) while their gameplay has ranged from copying Sonic (Shadow) to stupid as hell (again, Big).

To me, Sonic Unleashed is looking like the best Sonic ever. And I say that as a 21 year old who grew up playing Sonic on Genesis.

And I'll tell you why, aside from the beautiful art design of the levels, this is the first game where Sonic looks like he really lives up to his billing, speed wise. I remember watching the old Sonic tv show, where Sonic would zoom off into the horizon. Then I would play the games and yeah, he was pretty fast, but aside from with the super sneakers he wasn't all that fast. Though the running on water in Sonic 3(which I never owned until now on Ps2 is pretty awesome)

Anyway, hopefully this will be polished and smoothed out by release. They've certainly improved the framerate, and Sega seems to know that this game is very important for the character's legacy.

I think we've been over enough why Speed Sonic is a flawed approach but if you're reasoning for why Unleashed is "living up to its billing" is because of the cartoon then someone call me when Sonic starts eating chili dogs and Scratch and Grounder appear.

 

[Azure Dream]

Sonic in a Mario Galaxy style engine could work. Just look at stuff like Sonic Jam to see that you could have a proper platformer style with a fast character, he doesn't need to go lightspeed.

You have vague memories of Sonic Jam at best. There wasn't a lot of platforming to do, and he went slow. This slow.

I am a happy proponent of Sonic in something like Mario Galaxy, though. It would fit like a glove with the right level construction.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Ice Cap Zone, or Alaska? Because Sonic Unleashed has a level called "Holoska" set in a snowy region.

Yah, you betcha!

 

[Azure Dream]

Yah, you betcha!

The boss is Nack, trying to snipe the Werehog from a helicopter.

 

[FightyF]

* Sonic is all about speed. Without it, he is not Sonic. So we needed to put absolute priority on the sense of speed and let him dash non-stop on the trackless routes.

YOSHIHISA YOU FUCKING PEICE OF SHIT!!! YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KILLED SONIC YOU BASTARD!!!

Oh ok, after reading some this thread it looks you guys got it covered.

Sonic was also about physics...Sonic physics is what made Sonic different than other platformers.

I'm trying to learn Blender right now so I can make a concept demo of how Sonic should play in 3D. Got a lot to learn so I won't have it ready for a while...but once I do you'll all want me to make the next Sonic 3D title.

 

[RagnarokX]

I think we've been over enough why Speed Sonic is a flawed approach but if you're reasoning for why Unleashed is "living up to its billing" is because of the cartoon then someone call me when Sonic starts eating chili dogs and Scratch and Grounder appear.

Barring Sonic Spinball and Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine...

Grounder (recolor).

This is the closest badnik to Scratch.

Coconuts.

Of course, I support your argument, but I just had to

 

[youngleaves]

I think we've been over enough why Speed Sonic is a flawed approach.

Amazing, as I said before, if the game is enjoyable it'll be enjoyed. You guys are trying to throw out quick fixes of what sonic needs to be to be "good again." It needs to be well made, and polished.

 

[grandjedi6]

Barring Sonic Spinball and Dr Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine...

Grounder (recolor).

This is the closest badnik to Scratch.

Coconuts.

Of course, I support your argument, but I just had to

Bubububut, the chili dogs!

Amazing, as I said before, if the game is enjoyable it'll be enjoyed. You guys are trying to throw out quick fixes of what sonic needs to be to be "good again." It needs to be well made, and polished.

Well that would be fine and dandy if the games were enjoyable. However these changes have had a causation effect with the series decline in quality.

 

[youngleaves]

These changes have had a causation effect with the series decline in quality.

Disagree, if Werehog was/is as tight as Super Mario Galaxy, I don't think anyone will complain. The same with any gameplay mechanic. Right now Sonic Unleashed is looking speedy, with solid platforming.

 

[grandjedi6]

Disagree, if Werehog was/is as tight as Super Mario Galaxy, I don't think anyone will complain. The same with any gameplay mechanic. Right now Sonic Unleashed is looking speedy, with solid platforming segments.

If Sonic 2006 was as great as Sonic and Knuckes, I don't think anyone would have complained.

If game A was game B, I don't think anyone would complalin.

If feces tasted like ice cream, I don't think anyone would complain.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Yes. I will throw another chip in to the "I just want a good game, regardless of how well it perfectly replicates the gameplay mechanics of the Genesis games" hat.

 

[Yoshi]

Is gamerankings really the best you can do to defend Sonic Adventure? I think its pretty well accepted that the Adventure games were overrated when first released (Dreamcast fans a little too wow'd by 3D sonic me thinks).

Gamerankings is not a great way to argue, but Sonic Adventure 2 is not overrated. 83% is the rating Gamerankings has for this game and imo this is well deserved.