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[tuffy]

This is one of those articles where the author starts out from some wishful thinking ("I want the Vita to sell more than the 3DS") and promotes it to a statement of fact ("the Vita is sure to sell more than the 3DS!") by cherry-picking any factors that work in favor of that prediction ("the Vita's more powerful, which has got to count for something this time") and trivializing any factors that don't ("most people are tired of Nintendo's best-selling franchises by now, because I am and my opinions are obviously shared by everyone") which results in the usual journalistic train-wreck that's better at promoting flame wars than making any useful predictions.

 

[Risk Breaker]

but unlike every system released in the last 6 years

The cheapest 360 needed one as well. I'm pretty sure the Vita will get built-in memory later on, when prices go down.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

30 dollars is a problem, but it's not a big issue. It's not a system killer, I mean. After all, the cheapest 360 needed a memory card as well, and they also lacked WiFi.

If you had to spend 90 dollars for a 32GB card then yeah, it would be a problem. But with the 4GB one I think you can be fine for a good long time.

You're missing the point that literally puts it at $300 for the wifi only model for just the system and the memory card then. The price is what's frustrating. The 3DS at least came with a SD card inside. It's literally $300 for the base model and $350 for the 3G then and possibly more depending on what the tax rate is for your state. Mind blowing tech or not $300 for the base model of a handheld isn't exact cheap.

 

[frankie_baby]

The cheapest 360 needed one as well. I'm pretty sure the Vita will get built-in memory later on, when prices go down.

ah i did forget that one, ok then the vast majority of systems from the last 6 years

 

[test_account]

You're missing the point that literally puts it at $300 for the wifi only model for just the system and the memory card then. The price is what's frustrating. The 3DS at least came with a SD card inside. It's literally $300 for the base model and $350 for the 3G then and possibly more depending on what the tax rate is for your state. Mind blowing tech or not $300 for the base model of a handheld isn't exact cheap.

The 4GB card wont be $50. It will be around $20 - $25. We know this 99% sure based on the japanese prices. If someone were willing to pay $250, then they are most likely willing to pay $275 as well. It is a bit of extra money indeed, but it is an one time investment, so i cant really see this as a huge deal.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

The 4GB card wont be $50. It will be around $20 - $25. We know this 99% sure based on the japanese prices. If someone were willing to pay $250, then they are most likely willing to pay $275 as well. It is a bit of extra money indeed, but it is an one time investment, so i cant really see this as a huge deal.

I said after tax.... Did you read my post?

 

[test_account]

I said after tax.... Did you read my post?

Yeah, i did read your post, but you said "It's literally $300 for the base model and $350 for the 3G then and possibly more depending on what the tax rate is for your state", i understood this as you ment that it would be $300 + tax (since you said "possible more"). But i just took point in that the 4GB memory card wont be $50

 

[SmokedMeat]

You have to spend around $30 for the cheapest memory card and you need it just to do gave saves. How is that only a problem if you want isos/CFW?

Considering the games come on carts will they have room for game saves? I would assume so, but I'm not sure.

I think the added need for a seperate proprietary memory card sucks, when a lot of people are already considering $250 as too expensive. Why couldn't I just use my Memory Stick Duo? I think in some ways Sony's shooting themselves in the foot here.

 

[NIghtWolf]

Yeah, i did read your post, but you said "It's literally $300 for the base model and $350 for the 3G then and possibly more depending on what the tax rate is for your state", indicating that it would be more than $300 when tax is added, not that it is $300 including tax. But i just took point in that the 4GB memory card wont be $50

A 4gb card shouldn't even be more then 15 bucks ;/ I don't think producing them would be a problem when they are flooding japan with 16-32gb ones.

 

[test_account]

A 4gb card shouldn't even be more then 15 bucks ;/

We dont know about the specs and transfer speed of this memory card. But even if it isnt faster, it is a proprietary format, which i think usually cost more to produce because they arent produced in such huge scale to begin with, which pushes up the production price. But we'll see what the price will be. If it is $20, then it is isnt THAT far away from $15 =)

 

[Vanillalite]

For the hardcore the extra $25 won't matter, but I've been on the memory card issue since like 6 months ago in the other Vita threads. I could just tell this was coming.

The problem is once you filter through the initial hardcore are the rest the casuals and the core gamers that maybe aren't huge into handhelds or already have a 3ds or the like will they see the extra $25 as creeping towards to the $300 mark before you even get a game and hesitate? I'm honestly not sure. It's by far the best most functional dedicated handheld I've ever seen, but I'm not sure how much that really matters to people.

I think the Vita has a lot of value in what it offers, but I lean towards thinking that value only goes so far as people just have a price ceiling they aren't willing to go over these days.

 

[test_account]

For the hardcore the extra $25 won't matter, but I've been on the memory card issue since like 6 months ago in the other Vita threads. I could just tell this was coming.

The problem is once you filter through the initial hardcore are the rest the casuals and the core gamers that maybe aren't huge into handhelds or already have a 3ds or the like will they see the extra $25 as creeping towards to the $300 mark before you even get a game and hesitate? I'm honestly not sure. It's by far the best most functional dedicated handheld I've ever seen, but I'm not sure how much that really matters to people.

I think the Vita has a lot of value in what it offers, but I lean towards thinking that value only goes so far as people just have a price ceiling they aren't willing to go over these days.

Sure, it depends on how people see it. Personally i see it as a small extra cost, so if i'm willing to pay $250, then i'm also willing to pay $275. I'm planing on having the PS Vita for years, so that $25 one-time cost dont bother me. I would have gotten a memory card regardless even if wasnt for saves, because i'm planing on buying PSN games as well. But i'm sure that some people see it differently and see it closer to $300 as you mention.

 

[jonno394]

We dont know about the specs and transfer speed of this memory card. But even if it isnt faster, it is a proprietary format, which i think usually cost more to produce because they arent produced in such huge scale to begin with, which pushes up the production price. But we'll see what the price will be. If it is $20, then it is isnt THAT far away from $15 =)

You do realise that the reasoning behind using their own proprietary format is so they can charge megabucks for them (as well as to try and combat piracy)

 

[ScrabbleDude]

IGN had this to say about the PSP vs DS.

Jeremy: [...]I prefer the PSP's analog stick to even the PlayStation 2's Dual Shock.

I do not trust that site at all to make rational decisions.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Considering the games come on carts will they have room for game saves? I would assume so, but I'm not sure.

I think the added need for a seperate proprietary memory card sucks, when a lot of people are already considering $250 as too expensive. Why couldn't I just use my Memory Stick Duo? I think in some ways Sony's shooting themselves in the foot here.

They won't or at least not all. It's already been confirmed that Uncharted, Ridge Racer, and Hot Shots Golf will all need the memory card in order to save and there is no option to save on the game cart. I might be wrong about ridge racer but it was definitely 3 games and I know uncharted and hot shots definitely do.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

the only reason im considering a 32gb and dealing with it's cost is because i assumed that my 128mb stick would last me a while in my PSP, and i ended up *needing* the 512mb.... and then the 1gb later on. might as well get the top tier off the bat, and not have to worry about space.

i think the average portable gamer isn't going to be downloading a ton of games, they're more likely to buy carts like with their DS, so their memory stick will be mostly save-focused. a small cheap stick will suffice for what they need, but i think the shock of seeing how expensive the lineup of all the cards are could put a bad taste in their mouths anyway.

the vita needs to dazzle them enough to not care about/notice the expense of accessorizing your device. ipod/iphone has done that to a lot of consumers, but handhelds have a tougher job convincing people. sure, the value packs of cheapo stuff will sell a bit but most of that stuff isn't *required* like a memory stick to save.

hopefully the NA prices won't be too bad. i think it will do okay regardless though.

 

[MrPliskin]

Not convinced either of them will be massively successful.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

IGN had this to say about the PSP vs DS.

I do not trust that site at all to make rational decisions.

That's the misconception by this article and by a post like yours.

This is not quite like the DS/PSP situation. I would certainly argue in favor of the analogs on VITA as a much closer thing to the DS3 analogs this time around. Not better but certainly not nubs.

I swear this article is dumb but it's even more fascinating to read several responses that almost seemed threatened by the prospects of VITA success. It will get run over by 3DS in sales but damn if everyone here who calls themselves a fan of games and handhelds should not want one. It will have the games and only get better. And the apps and such will surprise lots of people.

My hope is to one day have most of the main apps if possible. Like and ESPN or Iheartradio app.

 

[JasoNsider]

I don't see what the big deal is. Even with a 4GB memory card added to the $250 price, you are getting technology that trumps even the iPad 2 for a price that no one has managed to reach.

The people saying all of this is sounding like PSP vs. DS are right. You guys are seriously just adding more fuel to that fire. This line of "You are getting X technology for a really low price!" is proven to not matter.

Games are the only really important point. It was true in GameBoy era, it was true even on 3DS launch, true as 3DS gets some absolutely great games in its lineup, and will still stand true when Vita launches. No killer titles will mean no killer sales.

 

[Averon]

Not convinced either of them will be massively successful.

Agreed. I would not be surprised if the 3DS doesn't outsell the PSP LTD. My view on the Vita, of course, is bleaker.

 

[mclem]

I swear this article is dumb but it's even more fascinating to read several responses that almost seemed threatened by the prospects of VITA success. It will get run over by 3DS in sales but damn if everyone here who calls themselves a fan of games and handhelds should not want one. It will have the games and only get better. And the apps and such will surprise lots of people.

Now, hangon; is this arguing that we should want one because of the tech, or because as a gamer we'll simply want to be able to play every single good game that comes out, no matter the platform? I need to know whether I need to be going all HULK SMASH or not.

(I also think it's a bit too early to assume that it *won't* be successful, too. The cards are stacked against it, but if *something* can catch on, it could do an awful lot better than people are assuming.)

 

[Wolves Evolve]

This is one of those articles where the author starts out from some wishful thinking ("I want the Vita to sell more than the 3DS") and promotes it to a statement of fact ("the Vita is sure to sell more than the 3DS!") by cherry-picking any factors that work in favor of that prediction ("the Vita's more powerful, which has got to count for something this time") and trivializing any factors that don't ("most people are tired of Nintendo's best-selling franchises by now, because I am and my opinions are obviously shared by everyone") which results in the usual journalistic train-wreck that's better at promoting flame wars than making any useful predictions.

This.

Excellent junior member post.

 

[Vanillalite]

I still think the bigger block for both systems will end up being the $40 games. Heck there are a ton of hardcore gamers on here that won't ever pay that for a handheld game let alone the general public.

 

[marc^o^]

I still think the bigger block for both systems will end up being the $40 games. Heck there are a ton of hardcore gamers on here that won't ever pay that for a handheld game let alone the general public.

As long as these consoles don't get pirated, games will sell.

 

[JGS]

I still think the bigger block for both systems will end up being the $40 games. Heck there are a ton of hardcore gamers on here that won't ever pay that for a handheld game let alone the general public.

This is the primary thing holding me back from 3DS. I'm already sold on it & a Kindle by the end of the year at it's price but I'm waiting for the back catalogue prices to drop to a more respectable 20-30 or finding deals on Black Friday.

I am only picking one portable and 3DS is a lock over Vita.

 

[Luckyman]

Maybe if they bring the price down really fast. It could be possible to bring it down because the components are so standard. More standard than 3DS

 

[Souldriver]

That's the misconception by this article and by a post like yours.

This is not quite like the DS/PSP situation. I would certainly argue in favor of the analogs on VITA as a much closer thing to the DS3 analogs this time around. Not better but certainly not nubs.

That's not the point he was trying to make though. He's pointing out that IGN has said some stupid shit before to make the device they're rooting for seem awesome compared to others.

And despite the details, it really is same difference though. Just like with the PSP vs DS thing 6 years ago, they're saying that the Sony hardware is much stronger (which it is), and therefore it's gonna sell better than Nintendo's handheld. It simply must! Pretty please? Add a few insightful comments like "Nintendo=kiddy", "old, tired Nintendo franchises", "too much mario", "Nintendo handheld is toy", to discredit any attempt at a genuine prediction they might have, and we're done ...

Mind you, just because the gaming press is doing exactly the same as 6 years ago, doesn't mean that the reality will become exactly the same as well. How the 3DS and Vita will fare, is anyone's guess. Vita has an uphill battle, but it's definitely not DOA. The 3DS had a rough first half year as well, while initially people thought the thing would sell like hotcakes.

I swear this article is dumb but it's even more fascinating to read several responses that almost seemed threatened by the prospects of VITA success. It will get run over by 3DS in sales but damn if everyone here who calls themselves a fan of games and handhelds should not want one. .

And I'll go out on a limb and say that this is you reading into people's posts too much. Or, at the very least, focusing on the few posts that don't deserve attention in the first place. Mostly I see people facepalming over IGN's stupidity, and genuine discussion over the handhelds survival chances.

 

[Pureauthor]

Maybe if they bring the price down really fast. It could be possible to bring it down because the components are so standard. More standard than 3DS

There's also the issue of perception. Price drops too fast are basically an admission that they screwed up somewhere - look at how Nintendo handled the 3DS pricedrop, with a lot of 'Yes, we messed up, here's some free stuff for early adopters'.

Now it may be bias talking, but I don't see Sony being able to follow the same tack.

 

[Takao]

I still think the bigger block for both systems will end up being the $40 games. Heck there are a ton of hardcore gamers on here that won't ever pay that for a handheld game let alone the general public.

My rule of thumb:

If it's from a niche publisher who needs the $40 price tag to make it worthwhile, then sure.

If it's a game that clearly has had a tonne of effort poured into it, then sure.

If it's a series I really, really enjoy and this is a quality entry, sure.

If it's from Ubisoft? No.

 

[JGS]

Now it may be bias talking, but I don't see Sony being able to follow the same tack.

I don't think they would want to until they absolutely had to. Sony's got a thing for price = quality. It covers all the stuff they do.

Plus to me it would be somewhere near the price expect for all the supposed stuff it can do. It still might not match up with demand for the product.

 

[Luckyman]

There's also the issue of perception. Price drops too fast are basically an admission that they screwed up somewhere - look at how Nintendo handled the 3DS pricedrop, with a lot of 'Yes, we messed up, here's some free stuff for early adopters'.

Now it may be bias talking, but I don't see Sony being able to follow the same tack.

Well they surely have a roadmap for pricedrops already. I didn't mean panic drops

 

[DCharlie]

Now it may be bias talking, but I don't see Sony being able to follow the same tack.

follow the same tack?

you mean in giving stuff away or implementing a panic price cut if the machine is floundering ?

I'm pretty confident they could do both if push came to shove, though it would hurt them more and they maybe can't cut to the same extent Nintendo did (because there's less profit on the machine (if any))

 

[Mxrz]

Over the top biased article triggers over the top biased reactions. Keep fightin' the war, someone is bound to win someday!

 

[Gravijah]

Over the top biased article triggers over the top biased reactions. Keep fightin' the war, someone is bound to win someday!

we are reasonable people

 

[Xplatformer]

I still think the bigger block for both systems will end up being the $40 games. Heck there are a ton of hardcore gamers on here that won't ever pay that for a handheld game let alone the general public.

What about the $10 and less games that should be available on the Sony Store?

 

[opticalmace]

Over the top biased article triggers over the top biased reactions. Keep fightin' the war, someone is bound to win someday!

Them's fighting words!

 

[test_account]

You do realise that the reasoning behind using their own proprietary format is so they can charge megabucks for them (as well as to try and combat piracy)

Sure, but it doesnt change what i said though The reason why prices often go down is because of huge mass productions. Proprietary formats arent produced in that big amounts to begin with, so this can affect the cost of the production. I'm not saying this is the only reason for the pricetag, but it could be one of them.

EDIT: I fixed some typos.

 

[rpmurphy]

This is one of those articles where the author starts out from some wishful thinking ("I want the Vita to sell more than the 3DS") and promotes it to a statement of fact ("the Vita is sure to sell more than the 3DS!") by cherry-picking any factors that work in favor of that prediction ("the Vita's more powerful, which has got to count for something this time") and trivializing any factors that don't ("most people are tired of Nintendo's best-selling franchises by now, because I am and my opinions are obviously shared by everyone") which results in the usual journalistic train-wreck that's better at promoting flame wars than making any useful predictions.

Yeah, the whole article doesn't say anything much more than listing the positive features of Vita. It's an incredibly lazy editorial, even if you could call it that. It's a fanboy rah-rah piece.

 

[theBishop]

To the people who reacted strongly negative to this article:

What are you really arguing against here? I mean, how can you strongly feel that 3DS "deserves" to sell more based on what we know about both game libraries. I feel like some people here would be rooting for My Pet Rock to win out over Vita. Shouldn't you care about which system has the best games?

 

[charlequin]

What about the $10 and less games that should be available on the Sony Store?

An iOS App Store equivalent is going to be meaningless as a device selling point, given that more powerful devices that play the same type of games will be available for a cheaper price.

If Sony established an XBLA-type service specifically for Vita and targeted that with regular, $10-$15 releases, that might have potential to be a noticeable selling point (in the US), but that just runs back into the storage pricing issue again -- the system itself is designed to be an awesome, always-online, all-digital powerhouse but the storage pricing pushes way in the other direction.

 

[Berordn]

Shouldn't you care about which system has the best games?

Yes. That's why I support the 3DS.

Spoiler

zing

 

[theBishop]

If Sony established an XBLA-type service specifically for Vita and targeted that with regular, $10-$15 releases, that might have potential to be a noticeable selling point (in the US), but that just runs back into the storage pricing issue again -- the system itself is designed to be an awesome, always-online, all-digital powerhouse but the storage pricing pushes way in the other direction.

Seriously. This whole issue with Vita's storage is so boneheaded. Who can we blame for this? Do you think it's a japan/hardware decision winning out over input from the software people? Or just corporate short-term greed all around?

 

[rpmurphy]

To the people who reacted strongly negative to this article:

What are you really arguing against here? I mean, how can you strongly feel that 3DS "deserves" to sell more based on what we know about both game libraries. I feel like some people here would be rooting for My Pet Rock to win out over Vita. Shouldn't you care about which system has the best games?

IGN tries to venture into the realm of Sales-Age and fails miserably. Vita has a lot of incredible features and potential, but not everyone is going to agree that it will become the best-selling handheld in the market, for the many reasons being discussed in the thread.

 

[Gravijah]

Yes. That's why I support the 3DS.

Spoiler

zing

i support the commodore 64

 

[JGS]

To the people who reacted strongly negative to this article:

What are you really arguing against here? I mean, how can you strongly feel that 3DS "deserves" to sell more based on what we know about both game libraries. I feel like some people here would be rooting for My Pet Rock to win out over Vita. Shouldn't you care about which system has the best games?

I think the argument is the editorial doesn't really know what it's talking about since the 3DS has a bunch of game out or that are coming that is compelling enough to purchase the system in standard portable quantities befitting a Nintendo portable.

Vita should be able to do the same. Sony being the leader is definitely possible, but will not be a blowout. The blowout can really only come from Nintendo's side. It's far less likely that Vita will do the same after the launch hype.

 

[blizzardjesus]

3ds's i'm buying in the next 2 weeks: 1
PSPV's I'm buying in the next 2 years: 0

 

[theBishop]

IGN tries to venture into the realm of Sales-Age and fails miserably. Vita has a lot of incredible features and potential, but not everyone is going to agree that it will become the best-selling handheld in the market, for the many reasons being discussed in the thread.

Oh yeah, I'm not talking to people who simply disagree. I'm not even sure I agree with the article.

I'm more reacting to the most indignant posters I've seen in this thread. How you can feel a strong personal allegiance right now? Unless you never played Ocarina of Time before, I guess...

 

[Haunted]

To the people who reacted strongly negative to this article:

What are you really arguing against here? I mean, how can you strongly feel that 3DS "deserves" to sell more based on what we know about both game libraries. I feel like some people here would be rooting for My Pet Rock to win out over Vita. Shouldn't you care about which system has the best games?

You best not be dissing my pet rock, son.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Now, hangon; is this arguing that we should want one because of the tech, or because as a gamer we'll simply want to be able to play every single good game that comes out, no matter the platform? I need to know whether I need to be going all HULK SMASH or not.

(I also think it's a bit too early to assume that it *won't* be successful, too. The cards are stacked against it, but if *something* can catch on, it could do an awful lot better than people are assuming.)

I hope so

This isn't a pro Vita rant but more than a call for some fans to support what Vita is doing.

That's not the point he was trying to make though. He's pointing out that IGN has said some stupid shit before to make the device they're rooting for seem awesome compared to others.

And despite the details, it really is same difference though. Just like with the PSP vs DS thing 6 years ago, they're saying that the Sony hardware is much stronger (which it is), and therefore it's gonna sell better than Nintendo's handheld. It simply must! Pretty please? Add a few insightful comments like "Nintendo=kiddy", "old, tired Nintendo franchises", "too much mario", "Nintendo handheld is toy", to discredit any attempt at a genuine prediction they might have, and we're done ...

Mind you, just because the gaming press is doing exactly the same as 6 years ago, doesn't mean that the reality will become exactly the same as well. How the 3DS and Vita will fare, is anyone's guess. Vita has an uphill battle, but it's definitely not DOA. The 3DS had a rough first half year as well, while initially people thought the thing would sell like hotcakes.


And I'll go out on a limb and say that this is you reading into people's posts too much. Or, at the very least, focusing on the few posts that don't deserve attention in the first place. Mostly I see people facepalming over IGN's stupidity, and genuine discussion over the handhelds survival chances.

I agree that a lot of posts are sensible but even if I don't post in every thread I certainly do read a lot. I've noticed some tendencies and trends but don't care to comment on them because it's not that important. If someone makes threads about computers or something you will see me there if I can find them. Just like how some make certain types of posts when there is no Vita interest. You can see these kinds of posts in lots of threads on GAF. They are very easy to spot. People that come into threads just to show lack of interest come to mind but this is just my psychology centered mind a work. I won't comment on all of it but there is definite animosities and defensiveness in a non aggressive way. It's how people on the internet work. Luckily GAF isn't as bad and people tend to stay focused and not let things get to their head too much

I would still say that articles like this stir conversation. Other places handle that better than here. Sometimes this forum can get like that too but in a more controlled manner. It's still there though.

 

[Takao]

3ds's i'm buying in the next 2 weeks: 1
PSPV's I'm buying in the next 2 years: 0

yeah you can't buy what doesn't exist