Sparkedglory
Member
FFXII is a great game. I really want an HD remake.
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In Defense of Final Fantasy XII
- Thread starter Megalosaro
- Start date
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Even though I didn't care for XII's plot, it probably had the least cringe-inducing tone in the series. I'd like to see another shot at a more sophisticated FF.
mgs2master2
Banned
While I personally am not fond of FFXII, it really does not need defense. It is known as one of the best FF game made.
KrM DeLorean
Member
This. More people need to experience the storytelling and characterization in this masterpiece.
Not my intention to start a list war. However, if that was your take away from my comment, I can't stop that.
Bardiche
Member
Final Fantasy XII doesn't need any defense. I think most of the backlash occurred during the beginning of it's release, but over time, people started to hail XII as one of the best FF games in the series. FFXII is the one Final Fantasy game that everyone is demanding for an HD remaster.
I think a lot of people considered X to be the start of the downfall of the series, or VIII, with IX being the exception.
I think a lot of people considered X to be the start of the downfall of the series, or VIII, with IX being the exception.
I lost track of the story when I reached the Phon Coast. That's when the game starts becoming kind of annoying with lengthy dungeons, a story that goes off rails into mysticism, and just a switch in tone. The characters stop developing and moments that should matter start ringing hollow. It started off like a Matsuno game and then it turned into a Kawazu game. Weird.
Anyways, I still think the game is a 9/10, great, fantastic or whatever. I love it.
Edit: Also, when the game came out, it was ripped apart by a lot of people. The game is still divisive, it's just that the game is old and most people have moved on. Those that hated it don't care enough to talk about it.
Anyways, I still think the game is a 9/10, great, fantastic or whatever. I love it.
Edit: Also, when the game came out, it was ripped apart by a lot of people. The game is still divisive, it's just that the game is old and most people have moved on. Those that hated it don't care enough to talk about it.
qualitydisc
Member
Final Fantasy XII needs no defense. I recently replayed it and it moved way up on my list of favorite FFs.
Regarding its painful development, I recently stumbled across this archived fansite from November 2003 which has a big article about FFXII's announcement press conference:
http://individual.utoronto.ca/mkhan/squarenews/news173.html
At that time Square believed their game was 70% finished and would release by Summer 2004. *cringe* Actual release date was March 16, 2006.
Also I didn't know my main man Sakaguchi spoke at the announcement. I assumed he had nothing to do with the project.
Regarding its painful development, I recently stumbled across this archived fansite from November 2003 which has a big article about FFXII's announcement press conference:
http://individual.utoronto.ca/mkhan/squarenews/news173.html
At that time Square believed their game was 70% finished and would release by Summer 2004. *cringe* Actual release date was March 16, 2006.
Also I didn't know my main man Sakaguchi spoke at the announcement. I assumed he had nothing to do with the project.
I agree, the game needs nothing but an HD remake.
And frankly, I like the role of Vaan as a main character. The idea of telling the story from a war victim's point of view was excellent.
The enviroment is beautiful and varied, being an open world game. Sometimes I will travel from Giruvegan to Archadia on foot just to see the game's stunning environment.
The military-theme music is epic. Boss fights are just crazy when it comes to atmosphere and battle.
Overall, I think FFXII is a solid entry in the series. It was fresh, rich in content and enjoyable.
And frankly, I like the role of Vaan as a main character. The idea of telling the story from a war victim's point of view was excellent.
The enviroment is beautiful and varied, being an open world game. Sometimes I will travel from Giruvegan to Archadia on foot just to see the game's stunning environment.
The military-theme music is epic. Boss fights are just crazy when it comes to atmosphere and battle.
Overall, I think FFXII is a solid entry in the series. It was fresh, rich in content and enjoyable.
Nose Master
Member
I know way more people that love 12 than dislike it. I didn't like it other than the world. The plot and battle system weren't really my thing.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Loved this game.
Best part was the localisation. The dialogue and vocabulary just sings.
Best part was the localisation. The dialogue and vocabulary just sings.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It wasn't a symbol of a decline. XIII was made as a modern JRPG. XII was fun, but the gambit system went a bit overboard and made it seem automatic. Plus there weren't really classes until Zodiac came out. Plus it had much better dialogue and atmosphere than most PS2 RPGs had.
XIII took everything and made it simple. Giving FF fans one of the cheapest feelings in FF. Spamming a spell until the guard breaks. If anything XIII should of been more like XII, but weren't they testing XIII's battle system for a while?
XIII was too emotional.
XIII took everything and made it simple. Giving FF fans one of the cheapest feelings in FF. Spamming a spell until the guard breaks. If anything XIII should of been more like XII, but weren't they testing XIII's battle system for a while?
XIII was too emotional.
It is fair to have that opinion. I remember my brother playing it a lot when I was younger. I had to go back to play a lot of the FF games. My favorite being 9. I also know more people who liked 12 than disliking it too.
KiwiLannister
Member
Doesn't need defense. Innovative battle system, some great characters (Basche, Ashe, Balthier), great character design, great visuals at the time, big world, interesting locations, good music.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Looks like FFXII doesn't need much defense...the game is more than fine.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Who's out there hating Tactics? I'll have to fight them.
No, it's not. Love Ivalice.
When I saw XV's battle system, I realized they'd been heading towards that for awhile, gradually making the combat less and less turn-based. XII let you set it up so it was all automatic. XIII basically turned it into a bunch of X presses for half the game. Now XV just tossed out any sense of turns and has made it an action RPG. Seems like that's where they were going the whole time.
XII is better than X. By like, miles. As a mainline title, the only one that's better than XII to me is IX.
Megalosaro
Banned
My hope for FFXV was that it would be a Hiroyuki Ito game. It's a shame it's just going to be Versus 13 rebranded.
Maybe Ito will do FFXVI?
Maybe Ito will do FFXVI?
Its a shame more didn't have the chance to play the Zodiac Jobs version. It fixed almost all of my complaints from the original version. Plus the game has a fuckton of content to last well over 100 hrs. Only real gripe for me is the story. Its not a bad story, just average. Among Matsuno's writing, its between Crimson Shroud and Madworld. Which means its still better than most jrpg stories
The Xtortionist
Member
The sheer size and depth of FF12's world is staggering. You could make a sequel using the exact same world assets, and it would feel completely new if the progression was mixed up. So many optional areas...I bet a large number of players went completely unaware of areas like Nabudis, Nabreus Deadlands, Zertinan Caverns, and the depths of Barheim Passage.
I have a ton of issues with the gameplay but I think literally every one of them is addressed by the IZJS version (fast forward, break damage limit, etc...). Really hope we get it at some point.
I have a ton of issues with the gameplay but I think literally every one of them is addressed by the IZJS version (fast forward, break damage limit, etc...). Really hope we get it at some point.
Megalosaro
Banned
I love Tactics, but I think Chapter IV is a little bit too rushed. Pacing-wise, FFT is like 75% build up, and then the game rushes to conclude all of its stray plot threads. It should have gone on an extra chapter IMHO
qualitydisc
Member
It would be amazing if Square asked Matsuno to come back and flesh out the story a little more like they did with Tactics Ogre PSP. But now I'm just getting greedy. Frankly I'm surprised that they asked him to do that on Tactics Ogre after his meltdown on FF12.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
So this.
I would love that! FFIX was my favorite in the series
Upsetting that Ito's talent has been put to sub-par Mobile games. I miss him directing FF
.devious.one
Member
It's the best FF I ever played, and I'm saying this without having played IZJS yet.
qualitydisc
Member
If Ito is not working on FF16 right now, then I have literally no idea why Square continues to employ him.
Those who say FFXII doesn't need to be defended, I can assure you it actually does. I don't know for sure if minds changed since the original release, but at that time, there were a lot of negative comments. Most of these comments were related to the battle system, because of the gambits and how the game "played itself" (so what? The system was made so that you can wander the wide areas without the pain of having to constantly choose and target enemies).
But the other negative comments were related to the story and characters, which were supposedly underdeveloped. I was quite sad to hear this, considering the writing and lore are of the highest quality.
Oh and about music, I'd like to share one very nice FFXII medley that was performed in Paris, last year, at Hitoshi Sakimoto's tribute concert "Vagrantes Mélodies". It's a mix of many field music from the game, arranged by Tsutomu Narita:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4K4rcLVJ6I
But the other negative comments were related to the story and characters, which were supposedly underdeveloped. I was quite sad to hear this, considering the writing and lore are of the highest quality.
Oh and about music, I'd like to share one very nice FFXII medley that was performed in Paris, last year, at Hitoshi Sakimoto's tribute concert "Vagrantes Mélodies". It's a mix of many field music from the game, arranged by Tsutomu Narita:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4K4rcLVJ6I
WonkyPanda
Member
Best 3D FF.
Japanmanx3
Member
Agreed. Ivalice Alliance better than all other groups.
Aeriscloud
Banned
It's right up there with Final Fantasy XIII.
Edit : I kid, I think XII is a great game, just not as a Final Fantasy.
Edit : I kid, I think XII is a great game, just not as a Final Fantasy.
PensivePen
Member
I've always really enjoyed this game, probably my favorite Final Fantasy title. Thought admittedly I've never completed it. The game is arguably too long for its own good. I think its looked upon more favorably now than it was at release in light of people's reactions to XIII. Final Fantasy XII and XIII are pretty much the polar opposite of each other in terms of design (for the majority of XIII at least).
Megalosaro
Banned
Frankly I'm surprised so many people on GAF like it. I've been ostracized from some boards on GameFAQs because I've had the audacity to speak up in support of FFXII.
They have him developing these sh**ty mobile card games. Square needs to get that man back to FF
I played five hours of it when it released and had a pretty good time but never got back to it. For what I played I think it was impressive as it was completely different in style and gameplay to FFX. I'm not a fan of sequels that play exactly the same way. It's superior to FFXIII and I finished that.
I'd be down for a HD version too, because my copy is about 6000 miles away...
I'd be down for a HD version too, because my copy is about 6000 miles away...
Pellegri Testament
Member
Only thing I would question when it comes to defending any part of this game is the character development(or complete lack of).
Vaan/Penelo - you find out at the beginning of the game that they lost their family during the war, instead of go into any form of detail about this like half the Final Fantasies before would have, they leave it at nothing more than what is said in the first 10mins after the intro is over. "I want to become a sky pirate" is Vaan's only dream throughout the entire game, this does not change at all even after everything he has been through. Thought it was a little odd that this was the first Final Fantasy where the first character you get control of(after the intro) isn't actually the main character, his role is to bring the group together and provide comedic relief, nothing more. Penelo was just always kinda...there, she seemed to be taken straight out of ff8 where she was literally a worthless character outside of saying a few things and having a single moment...and then to the backburner forever.
Ashe - one of the few characters that had anything remotely interesting to be said about. The story clearly revolved around her and her pursuit to take back her kingdom, choices are made throughout the game that could have developed her character more if they actually seemed to sway her focus, but in the end she did exactly what she set out to do. Any kind of deterrence to her cause would have made her a much more interesting character, in the end though you knew exactly what she wanted to do in the beginning of the game and she did exactly that, nothing different.
Fran - no interesting story until you got to her village where she was the outcast amongst her people. You go into the town, find out everyone hates her, do a few side stories that don't develop her, leave. She had no background story before her village and as soon as you left it she once again went to the back of line rarely to talk again. She could have found a way to ease everyone's hatred towards her when you entered her village, instead she wanted nothing more than to remain an outcast.
Balthier - "the leading man" or in the end "nothing more than a supporting character". Another potentially interesting character that seemed pretty cool and could have a lot of story to him. Gives you the airship, provides some comedy relief along with Vaan, knows a few characters that he doesn't want to talk about, that's it. Oh hey he did mention that he used to be a judge, surely that could provide some interesting backstory on why he ended up leaving and not following the empire....nope? oh well, they tried with the 2mins they gave him in the sandsea. Something that could have been done here, actually talk about him being a judge and his relations with the characters he knew but didn't want to go into any detail over?
Basch - supporting role to Ashe, few interesting bits to him other than his role as a protector. Had some story to him at the start when you met him which fleshed out his character some, gave advice throughout the game as to the goal of your mission, the usual protector character. Honestly have nothing more to say about him since he was one of the only characters that actually had something to him and actually changed some throughout the game.
I liked the majority of what they did with 12, the music was great(not Uematsu great but still good), the world was amazing, the plot honestly wasn't terrible for being political(even though it had it's moments of cheese). The characters and their development however is something that leaves a fairly large mark on the game for me when compared to 6-10(hell even 4/5 had more development to their characters). Sure you knew the main characters would most likely get the girl in those, you knew they had their goals and reasons for doing so, those reasons and goals changed throughout the games though. The characters were not the same in the end as they were in the beginning. This is something I did not like about 12, you knew within the first hour just how each character in your party would end up, there was either nothing or very little that seemed to sway their end goal.
Vaan/Penelo - you find out at the beginning of the game that they lost their family during the war, instead of go into any form of detail about this like half the Final Fantasies before would have, they leave it at nothing more than what is said in the first 10mins after the intro is over. "I want to become a sky pirate" is Vaan's only dream throughout the entire game, this does not change at all even after everything he has been through. Thought it was a little odd that this was the first Final Fantasy where the first character you get control of(after the intro) isn't actually the main character, his role is to bring the group together and provide comedic relief, nothing more. Penelo was just always kinda...there, she seemed to be taken straight out of ff8 where she was literally a worthless character outside of saying a few things and having a single moment...and then to the backburner forever.
Ashe - one of the few characters that had anything remotely interesting to be said about. The story clearly revolved around her and her pursuit to take back her kingdom, choices are made throughout the game that could have developed her character more if they actually seemed to sway her focus, but in the end she did exactly what she set out to do. Any kind of deterrence to her cause would have made her a much more interesting character, in the end though you knew exactly what she wanted to do in the beginning of the game and she did exactly that, nothing different.
Fran - no interesting story until you got to her village where she was the outcast amongst her people. You go into the town, find out everyone hates her, do a few side stories that don't develop her, leave. She had no background story before her village and as soon as you left it she once again went to the back of line rarely to talk again. She could have found a way to ease everyone's hatred towards her when you entered her village, instead she wanted nothing more than to remain an outcast.
Balthier - "the leading man" or in the end "nothing more than a supporting character". Another potentially interesting character that seemed pretty cool and could have a lot of story to him. Gives you the airship, provides some comedy relief along with Vaan, knows a few characters that he doesn't want to talk about, that's it. Oh hey he did mention that he used to be a judge, surely that could provide some interesting backstory on why he ended up leaving and not following the empire....nope? oh well, they tried with the 2mins they gave him in the sandsea. Something that could have been done here, actually talk about him being a judge and his relations with the characters he knew but didn't want to go into any detail over?
Basch - supporting role to Ashe, few interesting bits to him other than his role as a protector. Had some story to him at the start when you met him which fleshed out his character some, gave advice throughout the game as to the goal of your mission, the usual protector character. Honestly have nothing more to say about him since he was one of the only characters that actually had something to him and actually changed some throughout the game.
I liked the majority of what they did with 12, the music was great(not Uematsu great but still good), the world was amazing, the plot honestly wasn't terrible for being political(even though it had it's moments of cheese). The characters and their development however is something that leaves a fairly large mark on the game for me when compared to 6-10(hell even 4/5 had more development to their characters). Sure you knew the main characters would most likely get the girl in those, you knew they had their goals and reasons for doing so, those reasons and goals changed throughout the games though. The characters were not the same in the end as they were in the beginning. This is something I did not like about 12, you knew within the first hour just how each character in your party would end up, there was either nothing or very little that seemed to sway their end goal.
Lee Chaolan
Member
It's in my top 3 with 6 and 7. Definitely doesn't need defending. IZJS is where it's at though,
The Praiseworthy
Member
The most forgettable Main Final Fantasy ever... I even prefer XIII over it.
The only good thing about the game is the battle system.
The only good thing about the game is the battle system.
uncledonnie
Banned
The pinnacle of the series does not need a defense.
Ito has so much talent, its a shame he was relegated to mobile games for the past few years. I think he should get 2-3 games with good budgets to direct.