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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor
- Thread starter chubigans
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Thats amazing, congratulations. I can see it being really fun to get to work properly on your own titles. I'm full time in the industry and finding time for my own project outside of that is hard
AusRoachman
Member
Taking a break from my larger project to make something micro sized over a few days to kind of keep my sanity.
Doing the first round of art first then I'll break it up and work on the actual gameplay.
Love the art, what style of game will it be ?
AusRoachman
Member
Managed to get some new units into my game (tentatively called hexteren)
First show off me building up my fleet
This one shows off my destroyer unit
Finally showing off my new attack fighter
hoping to add some better particles and fancy effects over the weekend
First show off me building up my fleet
This one shows off my destroyer unit
Finally showing off my new attack fighter
hoping to add some better particles and fancy effects over the weekend
Hi all, does anyone here use Unreal, or would like to learn UDK/UnrealScript? I'm not really any kind of developer as yet, but trying to get into Unity and as such my wife bought me a book at Christmas - except she bought me an Unreal book!
http://www.packtpub.com/unreal-development-kit-game-programming-with-unrealscript-beginners-guide/book
I got a full refund from PACKT due to the error, but they don't have a returns process so told me I could keep the book! It's £30.99 new, but if anyone is interested please PM me and you can have it for the price of postage, or probably even free if you're in the UK
http://www.packtpub.com/unreal-development-kit-game-programming-with-unrealscript-beginners-guide/book
I got a full refund from PACKT due to the error, but they don't have a returns process so told me I could keep the book! It's £30.99 new, but if anyone is interested please PM me and you can have it for the price of postage, or probably even free if you're in the UK
This is looking promising. I'm very much into finding ways to cut corners during 3D development to save time. As long as the overall aesthetic remains coherent I quite like this low poly stuff. I use it myself in my own game. Adding cool particle effects can definitely really bring stuff like this to life.
Edit: May I suggest that you bevel the sharp edges on all your units, and maybe smooth the normals on those edges. It doesn't take much extra time during modelling but it makes a big difference to the overall look. Your hexagons have a bevelled effect so I think your units would look better with the same style.
Well I'm currently only giving myself a week or two so it'll be a procedural platformer. Of course now that I'm in there I keep getting bigger ideas for a more exploration focused game, but that'll have to wait.
PSY・S;102494231 said:
I use photoshop for 2D animation for game assets.. Ari at mechanical apple even also uses Photoshop to create those features.
I think if you're trying to animate and avoid things being time consuming, you're in the wrong field.
StrangeADT
Banned
That isn't Unity's fault. Go read up on floating point numbers. If you want to compare them you need to add a tolerance level for what you would consider equal and such. When you store a floating point number as say 1.8 like you did, it is almost never exactly 1.8. Usually people will define a tolerance as something really small like 0.00001 and they will check if the number is within a range above and below 1.8 by the tolerance amount.
This is a programming thing you just don't know about. read this
I use photoshop for 2D animation for game assets.. Ari at mechanical apple even also uses Photoshop to create those features.
I think if you're trying to animate and avoid things being time consuming, you're in the wrong field.
I'm not trying to avoid anything time-consuming I was just looking for something that could allow me to create animations a little quicker for rapid prototyping. I will most likely still hand animate stuff that I have more time to work on. I see that people use skeletal systems for animation, so I want to try that out but I'm not sure where to start.
bumpkin
Member
Are you working on a Windows PC? There was a Kickstarter for some product called "Spriter" a little while back. I'm not sure if it's officially out now or not, but it sounds like a tool for creating the sort of thing you're talking about with a bit more ease than using a traditional image manipulation program like Photoshop.PSY・S;102497759 said:
Here's a link to the KS: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/539087245/spriter
Personally, I picked up a Bamboo Sketch (tablet) a month or so back when it was on sale. My hope is to use it for hand-drawing assets to use in a game I'm working on.
LSauchelli
Member
Harry Partridge did a tutorial series a while ago, I think they could be helpful for 2D games. Obviously not what PSY・S is looking for, but someone else might find them useful.
EPISODE 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHtoFwHh38Q
EPISODE 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf1L7Cqr8a0
EPISODE 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZom9HRkt9o
EPISODE 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcRZUuYCUTo
EPISODE 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhM7qQY-DQ4
EPISODE 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HIieEoYU88
EPISODE 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4CIwdN5ATM
EPISODE 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDttReIf5mk
EPISODE 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7NUw82B-w
EPISODE 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6IST1R3x8
EPISODE 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kecQzJFdeUU
EPISODE 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDkQhi-728I
EPISODE 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHtoFwHh38Q
EPISODE 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf1L7Cqr8a0
EPISODE 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZom9HRkt9o
EPISODE 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcRZUuYCUTo
EPISODE 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhM7qQY-DQ4
EPISODE 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HIieEoYU88
EPISODE 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4CIwdN5ATM
EPISODE 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDttReIf5mk
EPISODE 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7NUw82B-w
EPISODE 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6IST1R3x8
EPISODE 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kecQzJFdeUU
EPISODE 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDkQhi-728I
So as someone who has always been interested in making a game and but knows next to nothing about programming does anyone have any advice on where to even begin? I'm a fairly decent artist, in my opinion of course, and I have some concepts for games drawn out but I feel like without any knowledge of programming or a programmer on hand there's essentially nothing I can do.
If you feel like you want to learn programming I'd honestly dive right into C++ as its a super easy transition to C# if you want to go the Unity route. If you want skip some programming I'd take a look at Stencyl or Construct as you can do quite a bit without programming. At least a few months of studying on your own can yield great results, at least enough to gain insight to the logic of state machines - you will be much better at drag-n-drop style game development IDEs even from this.
Why learn C++ as a transition if he can go directly to C#?
Make it into a board game! Oh, and learn some programming in the meantime.
bumpkin
Member
This was the book I got when I first started learning C++. It was great because the examples all have video game context. A lot of beginner books for C++ don't or are almost unapproachable for someone starting out.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1435457420?cache=9ec48d1ed3dcae543bce5375e47a42ac&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_5&qid=1393544582&sr=8-5
The edition I read was the second I think, but I'd be surprised if he (the author) changed a lot in the revision.
I suggest trying Construct, Stencyl, or Game Maker. I like Game Maker since it has a scripting language, and if you decide you want more power or like scripting, that can serve as an introduction.
I do not recommend starting with C++/C#, and I say that as someone who has been programming for many years. I think you will find it more rewarding as an artist with no knowledge of programming to get something working on the screen quickly. If you then decide you want or need more power, you can start learning about scripting in Game Maker or Unity.
I also recommend Construct/Stencyl/Game Maker before Unity since you say you are an artist rather than a "modeler" specifically, and those other three tools are probably still simpler for making 2D games from scratch compared to Unity, given no experience with any of them.
For ANY of the above tools, ask in this thread if you have trouble finding tutorials, since there are a wealth of guides, examples, tutorials, and so forth on the interwebs.
So if I'm understanding you guys right coding will eventually become necessary as I expected but for some of these tools a full understanding isn't needed right off the bat? I have a decent chunk of free time most days so dedicating time to learning shouldn't be to hard if I have to.
So which one of them would you suggest for making a game in a 2.5D(?) style like this:
Flexibility down the road. Everyone recommends C# to C++ but I like the other way around, personally.
For the tools mentioned, understanding of code isn't necessary off the bat. With Game Maker you will probably start using script stuff pretty quickly since a lot of tutorials use it.
A beat 'em up game might not be the easiest thing to try with no experience. Here are a couple of links which might show that it can be done:
http://jamjamtutorials.blogspot.ca/2012/11/side-scrolling-beatem-up-tutorial-part-1.html (sadly they did not seem to make any followups to that part that I saw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B00R9C2cNZ0 (2-hour tutorial presented at a conference, but sadly limited to 360p so you probably can't see anything happening)
One Game-Maker-specific tip, it sounds like the "depth" variable can be used to determine which sprites get drawn on top of the others, which might allow you to do the 2.5d effect you want.
A more complicated approach would be to start learning Unity and C# (used for scripting in Unity). You can then either learn one of the ways to do 2D stuff in Unity, or start down the 3D modeling road and make a full 3D "2.5D" game.
I do think it's a good idea to start super simple though, making something like a platformer or shoot 'em up. The sooner you actually download one of the (free) tools and get something playing in it, the sooner you will discover whether you like/hate that particular tool, and you'll be able to better decide where you want to go, hopefully.
Crazy Harry
Member
If you really want to learn programming, start with Java (not Javascript, that's not the same).
Java is very strict, it will force you into a decent programming style. It's the most taught programming language for a reason.
But be warned, you will hate Java in the process, you will hate every bit of it. Until you really get it, then you will love it, every bit of it, for how it has taught you well.
You will then have a foundation to learn other languages with far more ease then you would when starting with C++, C# or any of the other languages around.
But still, you are probably better of to hone your artistic skills and search for a programmer who wants the same but is in search for an artist.
Java is very strict, it will force you into a decent programming style. It's the most taught programming language for a reason.
But be warned, you will hate Java in the process, you will hate every bit of it. Until you really get it, then you will love it, every bit of it, for how it has taught you well.
You will then have a foundation to learn other languages with far more ease then you would when starting with C++, C# or any of the other languages around.
But still, you are probably better of to hone your artistic skills and search for a programmer who wants the same but is in search for an artist.
Finished up as much of the main area as I'm going to do for now, need to work on the procedural level tiles and then I'll take another crack at it.
Need to figure out what I want to do for the stone border, that will never change so I'm torn between making it inoffensive and simple but I don't want to just go with a black border or something too simple.
Need to figure out what I want to do for the stone border, that will never change so I'm torn between making it inoffensive and simple but I don't want to just go with a black border or something too simple.
I figured that idea was too ambitious for my first potential project which is fine since I had an idea for a platformer that should be simpler. I downloaded Construct and plan on experimenting with it this weekend so I'll subscribe to the thread and pop in when I need it... which will probably be a lot.For the tools mentioned, understanding of code isn't necessary off the bat. With Game Maker you will probably start using script stuff pretty quickly since a lot of tutorials use it.
A beat 'em up game might not be the easiest thing to try with no experience. Here are a couple of links which might show that it can be done:
http://jamjamtutorials.blogspot.ca/2012/11/side-scrolling-beatem-up-tutorial-part-1.html (sadly they did not seem to make any followups to that part that I saw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B00R9C2cNZ0 (2-hour tutorial presented at a conference, but sadly limited to 360p so you probably can't see anything happening)
One Game-Maker-specific tip, it sounds like the "depth" variable can be used to determine which sprites get drawn on top of the others, which might allow you to do the 2.5d effect you want.
A more complicated approach would be to start learning Unity and C# (used for scripting in Unity). You can then either learn one of the ways to do 2D stuff in Unity, or start down the 3D modeling road and make a full 3D "2.5D" game.
I do think it's a good idea to start super simple though, making something like a platformer or shoot 'em up. The sooner you actually download one of the (free) tools and get something playing in it, the sooner you will discover whether you like/hate that particular tool, and you'll be able to better decide where you want to go, hopefully.
Sounds like a very good plan. Walk before you can run and all that. I'm a coder and have been years, but I would recommend to anyone that says "I can't program, how do I go about making a game?" to use one of the creation tools first. One of the quickest ways someone drops off/gives up is when there is no immediacy, no quick feedback. Of course you could go away and learn Java or C# (and no, not C++. That's adding a whole new level of frustration that'll just serve to piss you off and drive you away) but it'll take time before you really get anything fun going on.
In short, do something fun. Something that gives you feedback. You have all the time in the world, you don't have to get bogged down by language things right now. Do a simple game where things fly around. Give it pretty graphics. Let it play some of your favourite MP3s. Have fun, catch the bug.
Then start programming.
I'm curious: what is GAF's opinion on Python as a game development language? I've seen a lot of hate for it, which essentially boils down to "Python is bad at maths", which would lead me to believe physics-heavy games are not suited for it. However, I've seen that, for example, a couple Battlefield games, EVE, and Civ IV were all made in Python. I would consider those games to have a lot of math going on, the first two with pathing and physics, and the last one when you are speeding up gameplay and it needs to make several decisions quickly. So that makes me dubious as to exactly how limited the language is. In my opinion, one of the most useful things in a language is being able to understand the code quickly, and share that code with others so THEY can understand it quickly. A high-level language seems ideal for this. Am I wrong?
BomberMouse
Member
Python is fine and is far from bad at math, numpy is used a lot. Most of these games use an embedded python for some light game logic but the hardcode core is still c++. Just don't expect the portability you get from some other frameworks like Unity.
Teknopathetic
Member
A lot of games use Python (or LUA) in conjunction with other languages. To use one of your examples, many aspects of Eve Online are written in C++, with things like game logic written in Python.
It would seem to be a similar case for Civilization 4.
And I'd imagine it's the same for the Battlefield games.
It would seem to be a similar case for Civilization 4.
And I'd imagine it's the same for the Battlefield games.
HellBlazer
Member
Eh? That would be highly surprising. They possibly use Python as a scripting language, but I would bet the engine itself is not programmed in Python.
That said, I don't know what "Python is bad at math" would even mean. As far as I know, it's actually often used in scientific projects.
As for its use in game dev, well, it's mostly used as a scripting language as mentioned, but it's still possible to develop a game using only Python. There are libraries to that effect, such as PyGame. I never used it personally though. Unity also supports Boo as a scripting language, which is based on Python syntax.
Learn programming. It isn't really that difficult as you might think it is.
Programming is actually pretty easy because it has known rules. Just learn the
rules and you are in. That's it. Almost everything can be learned while
spending enough time on it. You don't need to be a talent or something to
understand some simple rules and put some lines into the computer. The trick
is to keep it simple. And by that I mean; do not to use any tools (in the
beginning). Its fundamental that you learn the rules/logic of a programming
language and not the antics of any (game maker) tool. If you start with tools,
you will never come back!
About the programming language.
That's a hot topic, as always, since anyone has his preferred choice. But in
the end a specific language isn't that important because you will be able to
express your ideas in any of them once you have learned the fundamental rules
of programming. Yet you need to start somewhere. Being an artist you have to
know something about your color table, color mixing, pens, the canvas you draw
in, perspective, etc. These are all technical things. But the interaction of
these things combined with creativity can yield some very pleasing results.
Now people may tell you not to focus on a computer while programming, i.e.
abstracting the computer away while learning a programming language. I can't
support this theory, because, basically, it's the computer you program for.
You don't program for the sake of it. The computer is your canvas and the
programming language is your pen to draw into that canvas. Knowing the canvas
is vital for becoming a good programmer, since each canvas comes with its own
restriction and limits. Knowing these and using them to your advantage will
make you a better programmer. To do this you need a language not too high-
level (abstracting away the computer) and not too low-level to get caught into
the antics of a processors' execution/addressing model. The language that
fulfills all these needs is just the plain simple C language.
While learning C you won't just learn programming, you will also learn
something about the computer, i.e. that there are hard restrictions. Knowing
about these restrictions is fundamental, they define your environment, your
canvas so to speak. And this is quite universal, since the (game maker) tools
you may going to use later on do have to adhere to the same restrictions. You
have to know them, otherwise you will get stuck sooner or later. Knowing them
will also allow you to build workarounds while using a given (game maker)
tool. And as such, learning programming from first principles with respect to
the antics of computers will serve you along the entire road of programming
video games even while using very abstract (machine independent) game maker
tools.
What's the downside?
You have to spend more time and your progress will be slow, initially. Using
(game maker) tools etc. right from the beginning will get you results more
quickly, indeed, but as further you go as more you may stumble upon many of
the issues using these tools. And without a proper knowledge of the
fundamentals of programming/computing it becomes hard to work around them,
i.e. in building custom solutions.
I know, everyone just wants to make a small game etc., initially. So why
learning all the programming stuff and all that, if the tool does it for me?
That's a valid question. Well, your next game will be bigger, you want to make
a better one, a more sophisticated one, you have lots of ideas etc. That's
nice and dandy, but the problem is that the complexity will rise pretty fast
and the tools become of no help withing this regard. This holds true esp. for
3d games. In 3d you will reach the limits of your "canvas" much faster. You
have to know something about the limits of the hardware, of different
algorithms and their complexity, of mathematical equations etc. No tool can
help you here. So its better to know about some of these things from first
principles.
Well, my advice is to start programming in C for a couple of month and write
one or two little games from scratch, for example the game you indicated which
will give you a lesson in sprite/animation programming, bitmap blitting and
control logic from first principles. Once you got the hang of it you may
switch over to a game maker tool and try to replicate one of your games done
in C and observe the restriction and possibilities the given tool has to
offer while weighting them in for your next game. Even if you may stick to
a given tool or use an entirely different language afterwards, the basic
knowledge gained from C serves you wherever you go.
Edit: As you can see, El Odio, my approach is the complete opposite of
amanset's one. Circumventing a problem while getting frustrated is a pretty
bad way to follow. Real frustration simply stems from a lack of knowledge.
And it is not important to see pictures fast just to feed ones ego no to let
go. That's a pretty bad thing to begin with and won't keep you into
programming anyways, since you will always be pretty close to frustration
while programming. It's better to know how to deal with it.
Edit: As you can see, El Odio, my approach is the complete opposite of
amanset's one. Circumventing a problem while getting frustrated is a pretty
bad way to follow. Real frustration simply stems from a lack of knowledge.
And it is not important to see pictures fast just to feed ones ego no to let
go. That's a pretty bad thing to begin with and won't keep you into
programming anyways, since you will always be pretty close to frustration
while programming. It's better to know how to deal with it.
Yep. There's no right answer, just opinions. Everything missile says is just as valid as what I said.
Although I think I broke internet rules by admitting that.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Compute-bound games aren't great for Python, but there's always the option of writing your computation-heavy functions in C (super easy) or C++ (not as easy). For physics, there are options like pybox2D which do just that--I think it's written in C++.
Media libraries like Pygame (SDL-based), PySDL2, and Kivy do their heavy lifting in C as well. Pygame is probably the easiest to learn and the most well-supported by a large community, but it uses software rendering only, which is very slow. It -can- create OpenGL contexts for other libraries to interact with, but at that point you should be using something like PySDL2 or Pyglet. That said, software rendering can be -fast enough- depending on what you are trying to make. If you're trying to make something like a retro SNES game or anything that doesn't need an entire 1080p surface to be blitted on and updated at 60 Hz, Pygame is more than up to the task. To put it into perspective, I can update an entire 1920x1080 surface--with minor game logic--at roughly 70 Hz on a 2.7 GHz core. That's pretty tolerable speed, but it doesn't give you very much room to breath if you want a smooth-scrolling action game. This is all from the perspective of doing 2D games--I can't speak to 3D since I've yet to muster any interest in it.
I will say that, generally speaking, for the types of games most hobbyists and indie teams want to create, Python will be fine, especially when you factor how quickly you can create and iterate your game engine--I get far more done in a smaller window in Python than I ever did C#. There is a very definitive and significant performance trade-off, but as long as your product is performant enough it doesn't matter.
Indeed. Very true. I just wanted to hint that frustration isn't a good adviser.
I disagree. I still recommend learning programming, again, if nothing more than to understand the logic of a state machine. That's all any game, any program, any app, is. A large, complex state machine. I also disagree about C++. Where is the frustration? That there is more to learn? That's pretty much it. It is very strict which is a GOOD thing as it drills home the need for clean code. You also dont have to go down the rabbit hole with C++ to make example projects. The idea is to understand the fundamentals of programming logic and solving problems. You dont need to go deep to understand this. Hell, learning IF, WHILE, FOR, arrays, operands, etc is a LOT to build a strong foundation. And that's not much. But it IS just enough to build a strong foundation for the aforementioned state machines. If he will decide to use some sort of an IDE with lightweight coding he will probably never get into pointers. There's a strong foundation in C++ that translates well to other languages. Most IDEs use their own dot syntax in conjunction with a familiar language so there is a whole new level of deep that needs to be explored even with relatively simple and lenient scripting.
There's nothing more scary about C++ than any other language. There's just more to learn with it and it's a lot stricter. Strictness instills good coding habits. "More" isnt necessary in the beginning, understanding logic and the state machine is.
Hell, I'd even go as far as saying he already understands basic logic creation and his own pseudo code simply from everyday tasks. He wants to make a drawing. He already knows the actions he needs to do to sit down, launch photoshop, select tools that yield desired results and perform routines that execute his decisions. He already had a basic understanding of the state machine. Now he needs to do that with some coding and it is most certainly not terrifying. Its just text on a page that need to be placed in a specific order for specific results. Its not magic. It can "seem" daunting but the fear is the roadblock, not the language. Frustration is a given. Even something simple like "Hello World" has problems. Frustration comes from the need to identify those problems and act, which is an entirely different skill set than coding and its not something that can be taught to great degrees, only experienced for oneself.
I am rambling on tho. Take my opinions with a grain of salt, tho. Its just how I feel.
I come at this from a slightly different perspective. I found programming tools like Stencyl or C2 (in my case, Stencyl, but C2 is also good) to be invaluable for introducing me to programming concepts and getting me making games. Not all of us are alike; Some of us are extremely right-side brain types, we don't focus well on complicated tasks, we aren't good with numbers, we aren't good at solving complex problems or thinking about things deeply. We're just bad at it, and if the only way into game development was learning C# from a cold start, then, well, I don't know if I'd be in game development right now.
Pretty much my feeling although we are approaching it from different angles. I see it as more about things been fun and engaging from the offset whereas you are a bit more upfront in that artists aren't always the types that deal with code too well.
I think missile and Jack_AG are coming from the direction of "I understand it so others should be able to", but things don't really work that way. There's a reason we introduce children to programming with the likes of Scratch or, going back to when I were a nipper, Logo instead of C++.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I guess it really depends on what kind of person you are. Coding always made instant sense to me, but I really struggle with the visual aspects of making a game.
Incidentally, the way Stencyl visual programming works is similar to Scratch.
Diablohead
Member
Great thing about some of the packages you can use out there, I know hardly anything about C or any coding language outside of some basic html yet I am making a big game for pc and iOS, you could not do that 5 years ago.
Do have to understand and know how to plan and setup stuff, just don't need to actually type code.
Do have to understand and know how to plan and setup stuff, just don't need to actually type code.
Heart of Black
Member
I learned programming concepts using Construct 2 to make some games and looking at their logic. I understand a bit of HTML, but I don't really know much beyond concepts for coding these days. Learning a programming language beyond html though, which has it's basic templates so I don't have to rewrite everything every time is a no go for me, every time I start I lose interest. That's why a partial script program like Game Maker or Construct 2 is best for me.
My friend and I, the guy currently programming Treachery in Beatdown City in C#, started working in Game Maker, and made a lot of headway, although I think Studio is much better than 8.1, although so much could be done in 8.1 as well.
My friend and I, the guy currently programming Treachery in Beatdown City in C#, started working in Game Maker, and made a lot of headway, although I think Studio is much better than 8.1, although so much could be done in 8.1 as well.
That's not my take at all. If someone is passionate about it - there is nothing stopping them. Drive is something that can never be taught, you either have it or you dont. If one has the drive, there is nothing keeping them from absolutely obliterating a problem with laser like focus. It might not be easy but determination is a strong force that should never be discounted.
Heart of Black
Member
As an artist/game designer/writer I have laser focus.. when I draw, write, animate, make up game design systems, prototype and go through and create stats and the like for things.
When I sit down to learn code, I wander, quickly. It can't keep my focus. Even getting the determination to sit through programming something is really hard, but I can do all of the rest. So game jams and working with a friend has been the best.
I would suggest that the bolded is just plain not true. Has anyone in this thread started with a tool and ended up with scripting or programming? It sounds like Jobbs started from that angle.
Furthermore, if someone meets their own particular goals and their own particular timeframe with a tool, is there a need for them to go back? If they are happy with the capabilities, more power to them.
I think it is worth pointing out, not as a personal attack but just an observation, that you seem to have a very particular strongly-held set of views. For example, the 78-character forced linebreaks, because unlike everyone else, you prefer to use a particular text-formatting utility/editor rather than allow a web browser to format your posts in a readable fashion for all platforms. You are also very focused on low-level programming and math, and neither those aspects nor your own drive are likely to be applicable to an artist interested in starting to animate simple things on screen.
I started as a teenager messing with batch files and assembly language and QBASIC and logic circuits. I kept experimenting, but I would hardly recommend the same approach to someone else.
You do address some of the other aspects, but in particular:
1. As people point out, you can be frustrated with both a tool not making some detail work, AND trying to figure out why a low-level C bug is causing a failure. Or maybe (like I've experienced) you were using a library like SFML, and it just so turns out that it crashes on exit and you have to dig into the library to find out why! Educational? Yes. Recommended? Not yet.
2. Potentially hitting limitations or dislikes with certain tools is why I recommend they try a tool, then come back with questions. They find something confusing or problematic -- is it the end of the world because they didn't start with C? No, it's a learning opportunity. We, or someone else on the internet, can then explain why the problem is. Maybe it's something that Game Maker script solves very early on. Well then, that's an opportunity to learn Game Maker script like I mentioned!
What does Game Maker script (or Unity Script, or Unity C#, etc.) provide? Simple programming syntax, similar to Java/C/C++/C#/Python/whatever. Basic logic flow from that can be extended to other languages, should there be a need or a desire to go there.
Drive isn't mutually exclusive to everything. Some people just can't do something but have that focus on something else. Its different for everyone.
So I'm officially registered as a sole proprietor and now doing some reading on financial stuff. Anyone understand how Google Play and IOS APP store process taxes?
I've asked around locally at the bank and a couple accountants and never really got a straight answer. Doing some reading on google, still don't quit understand. I'm from Canada, so do I need to collect federal taxes and provincial on purchases from those regions? It'd be nice if Google and Apple just handled all that, but not sure.
Going to open my business account today at the bank. Maybe after setting it up on IOS and Android it'll be more clear. But if anyone has some required reading for Canadians on the app stores that'd be great.
edit: found some apple stuff
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/iTunesConnect_Guide/Chapters/ManagingContractsandBanking.html
I've asked around locally at the bank and a couple accountants and never really got a straight answer. Doing some reading on google, still don't quit understand. I'm from Canada, so do I need to collect federal taxes and provincial on purchases from those regions? It'd be nice if Google and Apple just handled all that, but not sure.
Going to open my business account today at the bank. Maybe after setting it up on IOS and Android it'll be more clear. But if anyone has some required reading for Canadians on the app stores that'd be great.
edit: found some apple stuff
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/iTunesConnect_Guide/Chapters/ManagingContractsandBanking.html
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