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[soultron]

Spoke to someone who knows The Evil Business Partner today. It's interesting how he approached the filmmakers and apparently was repeatedly turned down. Also intetesting how trapdoor dude is apparently the exec producer of the movie?

Great photography but I don't like the biased slant given to Fish. (Even though I like him. And Renaud!)

Loved the Team Meat bits especially.

My biggest problem though is how it paints even high profile indies as people who give up everything. I know several highly functioning indies in my local scene who don't put themselves through depression, isolation, and so forth. They might not have million-selling XBLA games, but still.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I've never had a problem with "pretentiousness". Sometimes I'll recognise it, but usually what it demonstrates is ambition and that can never really be faulted.

Pretention implies an unhealthy or negative ambition.

Edit: Seriously, what is this "hipster" shit? What does it actually mean?

It mean assholes, basically.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Spoke to someone who knows The Evil Business Partner today. It's interesting how he approached the filmmakers and apparently was repeatedly turned down. Also intetesting how trapdoor dude is apparently the exec producer of the movie?

Great photography but I don't like the biased slant given to Fish. (Even though I like him. And Renaud!)

Loved the Team Meat bits especially.

My biggest problem though is how it paints even high profile indies as people who give up everything. I know several highly functioning indies in my local scene who don't put themselves through depression, isolation, and so forth. They might not have million-selling XBLA games, but still.

true, but i cant blame them for going with (and probably exaggerating) the most dramatic cases for the sake of making the movie more compelling. but out of the 3 devs i actually enjoyed john blows parts the most despite it being a success story from the start.

i also want to add that im inspired as hell to make an indie game, and i have to thank the movie for that.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

im inspired as hell to make an indie game, and i have to thank the movie for that.

Good. Do it.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Agreed. The Avergage Joe isnt an interesting person to watch. Fish and Edmund are, because their minds are facinatingly different from ours. Plus, I really feel the movie shows the torments of creativity, the maddening effects it may have on you. Fez clearly shows a deep passion for Video Games and is a testament to Fish' OCD. Its also why I feel his comments on suicide are genuine. I really think that if he had failed to finish Fez, he would have hurt himself. Putting your soul into something for five years and failing.. thats devastating, especially if you're not a fully stable and clearly impulsive person to begin with. Their torments is what makes IGTM facinating to see and gives it a much more broader appeal than going intop boring game design specifics (I like them mind you, but its not for everyone, nor do I believe depicting that part of development will really distinguish the Indie scene from the larger studios)

Secondly: The internets tendency to shout hipster and pretentious at anything even remotely out of the ordinary needs to die of already. Everyone doing that is acting like the type of person they perceive as annoying: claiming some moral or intellectual high ground over others. The reddits of this world are almost more annoying than actual hipsters (for as far as they even exist). Give fair critique not this sad excuse for an argument.

Well said

Good. Do it.

already on it >:]

 

[IrishNinja]

I think it's a very accurate portrait of an overly emotional, stressed and loud-mouthed artist.

see, i kinda wanna see this now after all the positive critical reception, but after the GDC thing, i feel i'm pretty biased @ Fish and won't really give those bits a fair shake. what ive read here about the game's woes, his family's health etc make me wanna sympathize, but everything else doesn't sound at all likeable, much less "falling in love with". to a smaller degree, i had this issue a bit with Fez, which is a shame cause i can usually separate the work from the artist (Kanye, etc).

still, gonna check this one out.

 

[SteveWinwood]

The saddest part for me was that they are all outcasts, the only friend they have and that they care for is their game.
I mean, they didn't even have a release party for SMB. If that was my game I would be up in the club getting buzzed with my friends celebrating like every other normal person but they just went to bed instead lol

I didn't even think about or notice that. Damn. Yeah I probably wouldn't want to know sales or anything either, but that's because I'd want to be wasted.

 

[CloakedPuppet]

Just finished watching it and thoroughly enjoyed myself - highly recommended!

 

[CambriaRising]

I loved it, but I was surprised that the epilogue sequences were so out of date.

 

[Guri]

I loved it, but I was surprised that the epilogue sequences were so out of date.

It was done by March. I think they didn't have time do do a new epilogue.

 

[ComputerMKII]

I like it and there's not even a single indie game I'm interested in (I'd be willing to try FEZ if it ever comes out on PC). Phil Fish has excessive reactions but he's passionate and likable nevertheless. Braid always struck me as pretentious and just not fun and the film confirmed my opinion. Yet, even though I don't like Jonathan Blow as a game designer, I now like him better as a human being.

Edit: I hate the Depth of Field effect that ran on for most of the movie, making 65% of the screen blurry at any given moment.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

I liked the movie and I loved the Team Meat commentary but I felt like the depressing undertones were a little to much. I mean I know its business and all of the devs were under a lot of pressure but I dont recall any of them acting like they enjoyed the process of making a video game

 

[wutwutwut]

The saddest part for me was that they are all outcasts, the only friend they have and that they care for is their game.
I mean, they didn't even have a release party for SMB. If that was my game I would be up in the club getting buzzed with my friends celebrating like every other normal person but they just went to bed instead lol

Why is it sad? How do you know they're 'outcasts'? Even if they are, how is it your business to judge them? What's wrong in being one? Who are you to define 'normal'?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The saddest part for me was that they are all outcasts, the only friend they have and that they care for is their game.

You're an incredible asshole. Like the duck said, who the hell are you to judge people you don't even know?

I mean, they didn't even have a release party for SMB. If that was my game I would be up in the club getting buzzed with my friends celebrating like every other normal person but they just went to bed instead lol

Well... they had been kind of eating and breathing it forever.

That kind of wipes a person out.

Not every "normal person" gets drunk or has a party.

You know what I did for my 29th birthday? I went to a play.

I liked the movie and I loved the Team Meat commentary but I felt like the depressing undertones were a little to much. I mean I know its business and all of the devs were under a lot of pressure but I dont recall any of them acting like they enjoyed the process of making a video game

They enjoyed it enough to make it.

 

[hoverX]

Loved this movie, found it really inspiring too.

 

[Clear]

Just watched the movie...

Its a weird thing but coming from a time and a place where many people I know/knew were making games of their own, it just seemed so hysterically overblown.

I'm talking about the UK in the 80's and 90's. Sure we were coding stuff for home computers and not consoles, and the technology was so primitive compared to now, but there was a genuinely pioneering aspect to it that is missing these days.

Feel inspired by these guys by all means, I certainly came out feeling good for Tommy and Edmund, but in the end they're only treading a path blazed by generations preceding them.

And the truth is most of us did it for the love of it too, we weren't trying to build empires although I know more than a few who did.

You might see TT Games as simply purveyors of endless Lego branded blockbusters, but I'll always remember Jon and Andy working on Leander (Galahad) in a rented house near where I lived by themselves for months.

 

[bon]

I watched this today. Jonny Blow was the only likeable guy in the whole movie.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Okay. So I've finally sat down tonight and am watching the rest of this.

It's still pretentious as hell, but you can at least understand why the creators think of it in a very absolute, completely serious, completely generalizing way.

Then I got to the Braid segment.

Holy fucking fuuuuuu, what the fucking shit am I watching? "Braid was the first game to use time shifting, but I got the idea from Prince of Persia, but it only let you do a time shift so many times, so my concept is completely different" - what the what?

Also, everyone sploojing over Braid because "video games don't do love stories" (WTF?), and acting like it is some deep storytelling/gameplay junction?

I've played Braid. It's quite generic. Pretty as sin, but generic.

So far, I like the atmosphere of this film, I enjoy hearing personal stories when they are not waxing on about how the industry sucks or how this is the only thing they can do in life. But as of this point, it's an interesting film, just not a good one.

Does it get any better, GAF?

 

[MooseKnuckles]

I watched this the other day and really loved it. Thought it was a great doco.

And I skimmed over the review that a few posters have been discussing and this:

Much of the film is made up of these random shots of outdoor scenery. Like, they may as well have cut to utterly stock footage clips of a man gutting a fish, little girls singing in a play, or a horse running around a barn. The film itself had a good bit of that same pretentious audience-disrespect that was exhibited by some of its subject.

Makes it very obvious that this guy should not be taken seriously/has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Nose Master]

Blow continues to be obnoxious as fuck, but Fish and the SMB crew are pretty awesome guys. Felt inspired afterwards to finish my game I haven't touched in years. (Probably won't, but it's fun to pretend.)

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Okay. So I've finally sat down tonight and am watching the rest of this.

It's still pretentious as hell, but you can at least understand why the creators think of it in a very absolute, completely serious, completely generalizing way.

Then I got to the Braid segment.

Holy fucking fuuuuuu, what the fucking shit am I watching? "Braid was the first game to use time shifting, but I got the idea from Prince of Persia, but it only let you do a time shift so many times, so my concept is completely different" - what the what?

Also, everyone sploojing over Braid because "video games don't do love stories" (WTF?), and acting like it is some deep storytelling/gameplay junction?

I've played Braid. It's quite generic. Pretty as sin, but generic.

So far, I like the atmosphere of this film, I enjoy hearing personal stories when they are not waxing on about how the industry sucks or how this is the only thing they can do in life. But as of this point, it's an interesting film, just not a good one.

Does it get any better, GAF?

No, not really.

 

[stressboy]

I have watched a little bit of it so far. It makes me wish I had the skills to make a game.

 

[cr_blah_blah]

Okay. So I've finally sat down tonight and am watching the rest of this.

It's still pretentious as hell, but you can asst least understand why the creators think of it in a very absolute, completely serious, completely generalizing way.

Then I got to the Braid segment.

Holy fucking fuuuuuu, what the fucking shit am I watching? "Braid was the first game to use time shifting, but I got the idea from Prince of Persia, but it only let you do a time shift so many times, so my concept is completely different" - what the what?

Also, everyone sploojing over Braid because "video games don't do love stories" (WTF?), and acting like it is some deep storytelling/gameplay junction?

I've played Braid. It's quite generic. Pretty as sin, but generic.

So far, I like the atmosphere of this film, I enjoy hearing personal stories when they are not waxing on about how the industry sucks or how this is the only thing they can do in life. But as of this point, it's an interesting film, just not a good one.

Does it get any better, GAF?

How is Braid generic? Its time shifting isn't Prince of Persia at all after the beginning. It takes the simple use of time shifting displayed in PoP and evolves and creates interesting puzzles and complete level design based on time manipulation. If it was just a rewind button I could see an argument but that's not its main purpose. It is completely different than PoP.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

How is Braid generic? Its time shifting isn't Prince of Persia at all after the beginning. It takes the simple use of time shifting displayed in PoP and evolves and creates interesting puzzles and complete level design based on time manipulation. If it was just a rewind button I could see an argument but that's not its main purpose. It is completely different than PoP.

I don't quite think you know what you just said.

 

[GeorgieBoysAXE]

If you have the opportunity then buy this movie, it's really worth owning. It has this poignant and brutal portrayal of a world that most over look...you know, what a documentary is supposed to convey for it's subject matter.

Co-Owner/Podcast Producer, Press Pause Radio
www.presspauseradio.com

 

[cr_blah_blah]

I don't quite think you know what you just said.

Levels designed specifically around particular time manipulation techniques? You can be dense if you'd like, it's fine, but that doesn't really change that you're incorrect or just didn't play enough of Braid to see the rest of the time components beyond generic PoP parts.

In PoP, unless I really have forgotten, time reversal is to correct mistakes and reverse death (killed or missing jumps). In Braid time is quintessential to solving puzzles and even general movement in certain levels (like the one where enemy movement is based on the direction of your moving, for example)..

 

[Dog Problems]

If you have the opportunity then buy this movie, it's really worth owning. It has this poignant and brutal portrayal of a world that most over look...you know, what a documentary is supposed to convey for it's subject matter.

Co-Owner/Podcast Producer, Press Pause Radio
www.presspauseradio.com

Is that meant to be a signature?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Wait.

So I knew Blow was a blowhard.

But not accepting universal perfect scores, something that rarely ever happens to video games let alone indie games, because you felt they "didn't get it"?

Blow calls himself an artist while at the same time ignoring the number one rule of art: that everything you do is subjective.

Okay.

you're incorrect or just didn't play enough of Braid to see the rest of the time components beyond generic PoP parts.

Okay, whatever you say.

 

[Misguided]

Wait.

So I knew Blow was a blowhard.

But not accepting universal perfect scores, something that rarely ever happens to video games let alone indie games, because you felt they "didn't get it"?

Blow calls himself an artist while at the same time ignoring the number one rule of art: that everything you do is subjective.

Okay.

Blow has said in other interviews that he certainly appreciates the kind reception that Braid has gotten as a puzzle game, but that the puzzles and the rewind mechanic were like the wrapping to an overall bigger present, and people just never opened it. His reaction that you saw in the film was sort of more directed at how most video games have trained people to see only the surface-level material (mechanics, art, music, etc.) and so when a game like Braid comes along that has a little more going on, even if it's not perfect (honestly, the writing in the game is doing Blow no favors), it's still going to be praised but not for the really important reasons, the ones that made Blow work on the game for three years.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Blow has said in other interviews that he certainly appreciates the kind reception that Braid has gotten as a puzzle game, but that the puzzles and the rewind mechanic were like the wrapping to an overall bigger present, and people just never opened it. His reaction that you saw in the film was sort of more directed at how most video games have trained people to see only the surface-level material (mechanics, art, music, etc.) and so when a game like Braid comes along that has a little more going on, even if it's not perfect (honestly, the writing in the game is doing Blow no favors), it's still going to be praised but not for the really important reasons, the ones that made Blow work on the game for three years.

That's.... still fucking pretentious and contradictory to what he says he believes in.

 

[ScOULaris]

That's.... still fucking pretentious and contradictory to what he says he believes in.

Do you really not get where he is coming from? Have you ever produced something creatively in your life?

The Soulja Boy clip that was used during that scene should have summed it up for you well enough. He worked hard for years on this very personal product that he hoped would resonate with people in a way that would share a part of himself and his experiences, and when the initial reception came out he was disappointed to see that all of the praise revolved around the most surface-level aspects of his creation. That would frustrate anyone on some level, but Blow was more outspoken about his frustration than most developers.

Even if you thought that Braid was generic or pretentious, you need to calm down and put yourself in the creator's shoes to understand where he's coming from.

 

[Riposte]

Contrary to popular belief, it is the cookie people like most about fortune cookies not the banal message inside.

 

[Dog Problems]

Contrary to popular belief, it is the cookie people like most about fortune cookies not the banal message inside.

I like the message. :-(

I often find myself looking for deeper meaning in some games (not all) even if it's not there. Not to relate to something, just a way to look at it in a different way.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Do you really not get where he is coming from? Have you ever produced something creatively in your life?

Even if you thought that Braid was generic or pretentious, you need to calm down and put yourself in the creator's shoes to understand where he's coming from.

It's because I am a creative person why I'm so annoyed.

I know exactly the feeling he is feeling.

I just think it's bullshit.

So fucking what if someone doesn't "get" it? So what? You do. You made it. You didn't make it for other people. You made it for yourself. Other people like it. That should be enough. Other people are talking about it. Something you made with your sweat and blood. It's doing well enough to allow you to continue doing what you do. It's doing well enough to let you live off what you do.

Seriously, you really want to attack me just because I have an opinion? And please, spare me the "asking you if you have made anything in your entire life was not a personal attack".

 

[Salsa]

If you have the opportunity then buy this movie, it's really worth owning. It has this poignant and brutal portrayal of a world that most over look...you know, what a documentary is supposed to convey for it's subject matter.

Co-Owner/Podcast Producer, Press Pause Radio
www.presspauseradio.com

oh my god what is going on

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Is that meant to be a signature?

I, too, just got that.

I'm... impressed for reasons other than positive impressedness.

 

[Misguided]

It's because I am a creative person why I'm so annoyed.

I know exactly the feeling he is feeling.

I just think it's bullshit.

So fucking what if someone doesn't "get" it? So what? You do. You made it. You didn't make it for other people. You made it for yourself. Other people like it. That should be enough. Other people are talking about it. Something you made with your sweat and blood. It's doing well enough to allow you to continue doing what you do. It's doing well enough to let you live off what you do.

Seriously, you really want to attack me just because I have an opinion? And please, spare me the "asking you if you have made anything in your entire life was not a personal attack".

Well games are quite an investment, both from the developer and for the player. 5-6 hours is a long time! It's obvious that Blow didn't make it just for himself, he made it to give the players something that other games can't. That's where his frustration lays.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Co-Owner/Podcast Producer, Press Pause Radio
www.presspauseradio.com

Is this some sort of weird meta parody?

 

[bon]

Contrary to popular belief, it is the cookie people like most about fortune cookies not the banal message inside.

what? dude fortune cookies taste awful. without the fortune they are bad cookies

 

[Suairyu]

So fucking what if someone doesn't "get" it? So what? You do. You made it. You didn't make it for other people. You made it for yourself. Other people like it. That should be enough.

Well this is the most reductive and presumptive statement I've seen on GAF all week.

 

[Schmattakopf]

If you have the opportunity then buy this movie, it's really worth owning. It has this poignant and brutal portrayal of a world that most over look...you know, what a documentary is supposed to convey for it's subject matter.

Co-Owner/Podcast Producer, Press Pause Radio
www.presspauseradio.com

This is a quality first post.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Well this is the most reductive and presumptive statement I've seen on GAF all week.

I was referring to the subtext and message you know is there, not to the finished product as a whole.

Tons of people "get it" but don't like the message. I think the message is neat, but I don't particularly think it's effective. Does Blow think those people are idiots? I would hope not.

 

[Suairyu]

I was referring to the subtext and message you know is there, not to the finished product as a whole.

And you're still being reductive and presumptive. Yes, some people just make art for themselves.

A whole chunk of them don't. When they subtextual messages in there, they put them in there to be understood.

The film itself even tells you this when Edmund says he's trying to communicate with others and then it moves to Blow talking about how his message wasn't understood or even perceived.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The film itself even tells you this when Edmund says he's trying to communicate with others and then it moves to Blow talking about how his message wasn't understood or even perceived.

Trying to communicate does not equal getting upset when people like your sh -

You know what, nevermind.

Goodnight, GAF.

 

[clav]

The movie is $5 for the Steam summer sale.

 

[GK86]

The movie is $5 for the Steam summer sale.

Worth it at $10.

A steal at $5.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Movie was pretty good.

Really felt for Team Meat and their struggles. They come off the best in the movie.

Blow was kind of silly with how he was bothered by people not enjoying Braid the right way. The whole imagery of him sitting in a dim room depressed while the Soulja boy video plays over it was hilarious. But I get where he was coming from since he put so much of himself into his game.

Phil Fish, yeah, he was super obsessive and his wanting to kill himself if Fez goes unfinished, his rant against Jason Degroot...yeah, I guess that got me. Seeing him panic when Fez kept crashing at PAX was really depressing. Still think he's a dick but I understand him a little better.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Movie was pretty good.

Really felt for Team Meat and their struggles. They come off the best in the movie.

Blow was kind of silly with how he was bothered by people not enjoying Braid the right way. The whole imagery of him sitting in a dim room depressed while the Soulja boy video plays over it was hilarious. But I get where he was coming from since he put so much of himself into his game.

Phil Fish, yeah, he was super obsessive and his wanting to kill himself if Fez goes unfinished, his rant against Jason Degroot...yeah, I guess that got me. Seeing him panic when Fez kept crashing at PAX was really depressing. Still think he's a dick but I understand him a little better.

"Oh no! A rapper doesn't get it!"

 

[WrenchNinja]

Seriously, right? He should quit giving a shit. People like your game, be happy!

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

He should quit giving a shit. People like your game, be happy!

Too bad he doesn't make games.

He makes art.