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[Apophis2036]

I just see it says "over 100,000 polys" or whatever for Bayonetta. And it says Delsin is like 120k here. So am I missing something?

Plus Bayonetta is sort of set up like DMC. It's not open world or anything, so I'm sure they could fit in better character models and stuff. The Wii U reminds me of the Gamecube: In the hands of the right devs, some amazing visuals can be made.

I have no idea but Krizz liked to shout about how she had 130k polys in the WiiU GPU thread lol. If she has that many then that is very impressive considering the game looks gorgeous and runs at 60fps on a 33w console with a 176GFLOP GPU.

 

[dragonbane]

Dragon vs. dragonbane.

How appropriate.

What I was thinking lol
I'm trying to live up to my name.

 

[amstradcpc]

Sweet. Hopefully that's enough polygon's to guarantee me a good trade in price on this forgettable game.

This dude is going to Best Buy today in trade for a copy of Dragon's Crown for the Vita.

You change a character with 120000 polys for a character with TWO GOOD polys...good change sir.

 

[dragonbane]

I wouldn't say it's dick measuring. More appreciating how good facial animations/details have gotten over the past couple of years.

Ryse, Halo 4, Beyond, I:SS, GoW3 to name just a few are very notable for their impressive facial detail and animations. Although I:SS is the best of the bunch in my opinion.

Yup. Exciting times ahead.

 

[dcx4610]

I'm loving Second Son but the faces/characters have have been the least impressive part of the game to me so far (although Betty did look real). The textures and the lighting engine on the other hand are mind blowing.

It's hard to look at any faces after games like LA Noire and Beyond. Those games set the bar for me and haven't been topped.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm loving Second Son but the faces/characters have have been the least impressive part of the game to me so far (although Betty did look real). The textures and the lighting engine on the other hand are mind blowing.

It's hard to look at any faces after games like LA Noire and Beyond. Those games set the bar for me and haven't been topped.

I'm not a big fan of the LA Noire faces. They animate really well but the graphics aren't quite good enough. They look like an animated bag placed over a manniquin.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

And then there is the stuff from the show-floor:

"There’s also a bit of a mystery that we are still unable to solve. The article on the Official PlayStation blog talks about a little less than a million polygons per character, but our team reports that during the presentations at E3 “only” 60-70,000 polygons were mentioned. The other sources agree with that notion. I included the official PlayStation blog number in the list above, as it’s the most “official” source we have, but the discrepancy seems strange. We reached out to Quantic Dream for a clarification on the issue, and we’ll keep you updated if we hear anything relevant."

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06...echnical-specs-unveiled-and-a-little-mystery/

I tweeted someone at QD and hopefully get an answer soon.



Just comparing certain elements seem fine to me. I don't see anyone arguing that as a whole any PS3/360 game looked better.

I remember that Dualshocker article full of retardness. I posted the video and Dualschockers did not discern his words clearly, the goblin is 670 000 polys and not 67 000. It will be not equilibrated if all characters are around one million poly and the goblin is around 67k.

 

[fred]

That's what I'd expect from current gen games. Isn't the Bayonetta model in Bayonetta 2 around 120,000 polys too..?

 

[Vitor711]

I wouldn't say it's dick measuring. More appreciating how good facial animations/details have gotten over the past couple of years.

Ryse, Halo 4, Beyond, I:SS, GoW3 to name just a few are very notable for their impressive facial detail and animations. Although I:SS is the best of the bunch in my opinion.

I just can't agree that I:SS looks better in that department. As a whole, it is far nicer looking than any of the other games mentioned (barring perhaps Ryse) but in terms of facial tech? If wrinkles impress, then I suggest getting a copy of LA Noire.

And, I've said it before, but the low resolution skin textures on Reggie, Evil Concrete Lady and other side characters are seriously distracting. The animation is perhaps slightly better than the titles listed but not the facial detail.

I guess I'm arguing fine points but, as a whole, the facial tech in I:SS is a mixed bag.

 

[dragonbane]

I'm not a big fan of the LA Noire faces. They animate really well but the graphics aren't quite good enough. They look like an animated bag placed over a manniquin.

Also there is no going back after performance capture (body and voice/face synchronised). L.A. Noire lacks that and it hurts the overall presentation quite a bit. Funny how Cage once said performance capture would be the future and Noire's system appeared like a dead end to him with lots of limitations and everyone got mad. Now everyone uses performance capture and Noire's tech was never seen again lol

I remeber that Dualshocker article full of retardness. I posted the video and Dualschockers did not discern his words clearly, the goblin is 670 000 polys and not 67 000. It will be not equilibrated if all characters are around one million poly and the goblin is around 67k.

Could be true. I hope I get a definitive answer soon. 1 million sure would be impressive as hell.

EDIT: Got it. 1 million pretty much confirmed: https://twitter.com/m00tm00t/status/456045883021611008

Will be interesting how their next game is going to look like.

 

[not_so_special]

Someone else said it as well or did you not read again?

As for LOL keep posting everytime I see the name I just chuckle at the bs you do to defends things you like.

woa..someone is angry..are u ok?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I just can't agree that I:SS looks better in that department. As a whole, it is far nicer looking than any of the other games mentioned (barring perhaps Ryse) but in terms of facial tech? If wrinkles impress, then I suggest getting a copy of LA Noire.

And, I've said it before, but the low resolution skin textures on Reggie, Evil Concrete Lady and other side characters are seriously distracting. The animation is perhaps slightly better than the titles listed but not the facial detail.

I guess I'm arguing fine points but, as a whole, the facial tech in I:SS is a mixed bag.

I don't disagree, it's immediately obvious that Delsin and Betty benefited from the greatest amount of work due to how much better they look compared to everyone else, but those two characters alone were enough to blow me away in terms of now good they looked and how impressive their facial animations were. I'd also maybe throw Hank in there too, but we see so little of him...

In terms of consistency across a number of characters, L.A Noire is definitely better than most, but it also suffers from some from really odd animation quirks. It does have some of the best subtle facial animations though.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Also there is no going back after performance capture (body and voice/face synchronised). L.A. Noire lacks that and it hurts the overall presentation quite a bit. Funny how Cage once said performance capture would be the future and Noire's system appeared like a dead end to him with lots of limitations and everyone got mad. Now everyone uses performance capture and Noire's tech was never seen again lol



Could be true. I hope I get a definitive answer soon. 1 million sure would be impressive as hell.

EDIT: Got it. 1 million pretty much confirmed: https://twitter.com/m00tm00t/status/456045883021611008

Will be interesting how their next game is going to look like.

Told you haha. And this is even beyond what CGI movies do per character and they are just using a PS3 engine. Imagine if they use PS4 new techs and TressFX 2.0 etc.

 

[LastNac]

Problem with Lasky's model is that it looks good but just seems like a mannequin in a mall, no idel animation at all in game.

It is one thing for a model to look great in still shots, it is another for it to look great in motion. Ellie's model in idel still "takes the cake" this gen in my opinion:

Seeing stuff like this gives me hope for this gen. I really would love to see the ingame character models of Drake and Sully emote this much in Uncharted 4 when they quip back and forth during gameplay. I also loved the dialogue between the two ("Hooker in church, etc.") but when you swivel the camera on their faces they are just moving their jaws in a puppet motion. Really want to see that improved.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

EDIT: Got it. 1 million pretty much confirmed: https://twitter.com/m00tm00t/status/456045883021611008

Will be interesting how their next game is going to look like.

Their next game is going to be Beyond: Two Souls remastered, i think. Will be interesting to see if they increase the polygon count or simply upgrade the textures/lighting etc.

 

[dragonbane]

Their next game is going to be Beyond: Two Souls remastered, i think. Will be interesting to see if they increase the polygon count or simply upgrade the textures/lighting etc.

Yeah I think they are probably doing both at the moment. We know some of them are definitely working on a new IP on PS4. The new writers are there since 2012 and are not credited at all on Beyond, so I imagine they are quite far as well. They have been hiring like mad recently too, so I'm guessing full production is about to begin.

For Beyond they probably have some higher quality assets available than what is in the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if they upgrade some of the textures.

Seeing stuff like this gives me hope for this gen. I really would love to see the ingame character models of Drake and Sully emote this much in Uncharted 4 when they quip back and forth during gameplay. I also loved the dialogue between the two ("Hooker in church, etc.") but when you swivel the camera on their faces they are just moving their jaws in a puppet motion. Really want to see that improved.

This unfortunately is the same for most of TLoU. They didn't bother to hand animate most of the ingame dialogue and opted for an automatic approach it seems like. Looks really robotic when you manage to get up close during a gameplay dialogue. The idle faces are obviously a different story. Beyond also has some really good ones, will try to capture some of them to see how they do compared to Ellie.

 

[KKRT00]

If You want to appreciate Ryse's graphics without suck ass upscaling from 900p, here some shots

Direct feeds from Xbone are here:
http://kkrt.minus.com/mDxZTxmbWVH9J

 

[LastNac]

This unfortunately is the same for most of TLoU. They didn't bother to hand animate most of the ingame dialogue and opted for an automatic approach it seems like. Looks really robotic when you manage to get up close during a gameplay dialogue. The idle faces are obviously a different story. Beyond also has some really good ones, will try to capture some of them to see how they do compared to Ellie.

Yeah, I certainly got that sense while playing TLoU. Ellie's idel animation, as opposed to Drake, seemed to having a lot more personality; that is really the only difference between Uncharted and TLoU.

LA Noire is probably the only time I have been blown away by ingame conversations during gameplay. Very early on in the game Cole takes cover with a shotgun and is shot at, he yells back "Cop Killers get the chair." Blown away by it everytime I see it.

 

[dragonbane]

Yeah, I certainly got that sense while playing TLoU. Ellie's idel animation, as opposed to Drake, seemed to having a lot more personality; that is really the only difference between Uncharted and TLoU.

LA Noire is probably the only time I have been blown away by ingame conversations during gameplay. Very early on in the game Cole takes cover with a shotgun and is shot at, he yells back "Cop Killers get the chair." Blown away by it everytime I see it.

Yeah. While I don't really like their technique all that much, it helped in that regard cause their method of filming people's faces is not replicable using automatic methods. They basically had no choice but to capture every single ingame dialogue with the same approach they used for all the conversations. Makes it certainly a lot more consistent.

Many devs do that actually who are using techniques such as full performance capture. Pretty much the only negative to ND's approach. Hand animated looks fantastic, but there is only so much footage you can animate before you need to hire a lot more animators.

 

[Apophis2036]

Sony first parties miss SPUs a lot... a pity they didn´t include a bunch of them.

Would the PS3's CELL be a bottleneck if you put in it PS4 instead of the normal CPU ?.

 

[KKRT00]

Would the PS3's CELL be a bottleneck if you put in it PS4 instead of the normal CPU ?.

Yes, big time bottleneck actually if You are talking about PS3's CELL setup. Not only from performance standpoint, but also from development standpoint.

 

[Dictator93]

My only problem with the Second son character models are the eye shaders. They are completely off. An eye does not reflect light like that, hence why that power charge sequence looks soo off. But pretty great poly counts otherwise.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

If You want to appreciate Ryse's graphics without suck ass upscaling from 900p, here some shots

These are all bullshots. By comparison, even The Last of Us had plenty of impressive looking bullshots - actually, almost every game has them pre-release.

 

[Majanew]

Second Son's character models look good... but from the next-gen games I've played, Ryse has the best. The hair is great and the fur on King Oswald's vest looked good.

 

[KKRT00]

These are all bullshots. By comparison, even The Last of Us had plenty of impressive looking bullshots - actually, almost every game has them pre-release.

They are just rendered in higher resolution, but on Xbone specs:

Quite old bullshot

Ingame real time

 

[Apophis2036]

You should see some of the clipping in I:SS. Good grief...

Anyway, more Ryse. (I'm bored, will try to do some facials later)

http://a.pomf.se/bxwtnl.webm
http://a.pomf.se/pzmghi.webm

I do wonder why people get so upset about the tech difference between the two new consoles tbh going on that. Ryse is an incredible looking, first generation XBone game (didn't it also start as a 360 Kinect only game ?). Halo and Gears of War are going to look phenomenal and up there with anything on PS4 imo.

Spoiler

I own a PS4 not XBone before I get called a deluded fanboy...

In this age of gaming outside of image quality I think artistic talent and budget have far more to do with what we see on screen than the actual specifics of the chips inside the consoles.

The most impressive thing to me about I:SS is the lighting, it's the most realistic lighting I have ever seen in a game. Some of the facial animations in the cut scenes are also very impressive.

People really need to see these games in action though because the old ladies pic in this thread is laughable yet I thought that early cut scene was one of the most incredibly lifelike scenes I had ever seen in a game in motion.

Yes, big time bottleneck actually if You are talking about PS3's CELL setup. Not only from performance standpoint, but also from development standpoint.

Yes I meant the exact PS3 chip. Interesting to know thanks.

 

[KKRT00]

A think those webm are slightly better

http://a.pomf.se/xkrkxr.webm
http://a.pomf.se/cbscay.webm
http://a.pomf.se/kytpbb.webm

Made by MarkV.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

They are just rendered in higher resolution, but on Xbone specs:

Quite old bullshot

Ingame real time

Hence a bullshot? That's not what you see when you play the game

 

[Maninthemirror]

Second Son Devs went from decent graphics devs to amazing graphics in the gen jump. Crytek have always been graphics king. One can only imagine what they will be able to do if they can do a ps4 exclusive

 

[KKRT00]

Hence a bullshot? That's not what you see when you play the game

And i've never said You do. But You still can see how assets look without blurry IQ, which was the point.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

And i've never said You do. But You still can see how assets look without blurry IQ, which was the point.

I just find it silly to compare the actual game models for Infamous to uprezzed Ryse shots

 

[Wickerbasket]

Second Son looks amazing; I was blown away by the image quality when playing it. I don't know how they managed to pull it off in an open world game, but I'm amazed.

Definitely looking forward to the future of the console if this is what they put out near the start,

 

[silver.tongue]

And yet the characters in Beyond looked better.

Not saying the facial animation isn't impressive at points in Infamous but the seams are very noticeable, both literally and metaphorically.

Low res skin textures didn't help nor did the weird shadowing under the jawline.

I'm playing through Beyond right now and am ASTOUNDED at how good it looks. Just incredible.

I'm near plat in the game and holy shit it looks incredible.
Characters are PS4 level. No contest. Simply too good for last gen.

Enviroments are also very good but I expect better in PS4 titles.

Annoying problems I've seen would be aliasing (there's a lot on the enviroments) and frame-rate drops (navajo chapter mostly).

I still need to make a LTTP thread on this game. It's not Heavy Rain caliber, but It's still great. I think low reviews made a lot of people give up on playing it. If people give it a chance, they will be surprised.

 

[Melchiah]

Heavy on the compression but shows the finger, chain and hood modelling nicely.

Kratos' model is fabulous.

Then again so is much of the world geometry. I'd replay III in 1080p.

The chains look so much better in Infamous, as they aren't just drawn on the character's arm.


EDIT: Here's a better pic of Kratos' "2D" chains.

 

[SniperHunter]

why are people posting Ryse cut scene shots in here? I thought all the cut scenes in that game were rendered elsewhere and cleaned up after just like Uncharted

 

[SystemBug]

why are people posting Ryse cut scene shots in here? I thought all the cut scenes in that game were rendered elsewhere and cleaned up after just like Uncharted

this is ingame.

 

[dragonbane]

I'm near plat in the game and holy shit it looks incredible.
Characters are PS4 level. No contest. Simply too good for last gen.

Enviroments are also very good but I expect better in PS4 titles.

Annoying problems I've seen would be aliasing (there's a lot on the enviroments) and frame-rate drops (navajo chapter mostly).

I still need to make a LTTP thread on this game. It's not Heavy Rain caliber, but It's still great. I think low reviews made a lot of people give up on playing it. If people give it a chance, they will be surprised.

It sure does look incredible. Fortunately it sold well enough (over 1.5m atm) even with the divisive reviews and the majority of player impressions is positive as well. You can read up on some of the struggles they had with producing Beyond here:

http://mediacap.net/simon/portfolio/beyond/
http://mediacap.net/simon/portfolio/b2s-preproduction/
http://mediacap.net/simon/portfolio/b2s-production/

There are also some interesting looking scenes that were cut from the game. Mainly a chapter set in Mongolia and one where you play Jodie as a baby.

 

[KKRT00]

why are people posting Ryse cut scene shots in here? I thought all the cut scenes in that game were rendered elsewhere and cleaned up after just like Uncharted

Nah, many are prerendered, but some are real-time too. They are not touched up like Uncharted series, they were recorded on Xbone settings and exported to avi, they even have tons of LOD bugs in them
Uncharted cutscenes were rendered by several PS3 on the other hand.

This shots are from real-time cutscenes:
http://i1.minus.com/ibc1k9XfSnA05u.png
http://i3.minus.com/ibx2RwGLgAoTym.png
http://i4.minus.com/ibqAIlK3ok9dY6.png
http://i4.minus.com/iFGGHfqu5e7Kr.png
http://i1.minus.com/ibchNKsA5vVfRu.png
http://i6.minus.com/i4rmMaU6lbp6e.png
http://i2.minus.com/iVLa9UhREgfS5.png
http://i1.minus.com/iyb60VdMNB3N7.png
http://i7.minus.com/ijBbnT1LXg1Xk.png
http://i2.minus.com/iBWvLDxC85Kr9.png
http://i5.minus.com/ib0QJaoHAMo2wd.png

All cutscenes with hud are real-time and very few without hud too.

------------

I just find it silly to compare the actual game models for Infamous to uprezzed Ryse shots

How is this silly? Those are the same assets as on Xbone. Same fidelity, same textures, same geometry, even same lighting, The only difference is that on Xbone some details are hidden behind blurry IQ.

You can look at shot above, its the same fidelity, just screens are blurrier. So why not cut the blur if You can in some cases?


----------------
@dragonbane
I like that QD is quite transparent about their production. Its actually a shame that from so many games from last year, so little gave away technical details.

No talk from DICE still publically available, not talk from GG too since March ;\

 

[SniperHunter]

Nah, many are prerendered, but some are real-time too. They are not touched up like Uncharted series, they were recorded on Xbone settings and exported to avi, they even have tons of LOD bugs in them
Uncharted cutscenes were rendered by several PS3 on the other hand.

This shots are from real-time cutscenes:
http://i1.minus.com/ibc1k9XfSnA05u.png
http://i3.minus.com/ibx2RwGLgAoTym.png
http://i4.minus.com/ibqAIlK3ok9dY6.png
http://i4.minus.com/iFGGHfqu5e7Kr.png
http://i1.minus.com/ibchNKsA5vVfRu.png
http://i6.minus.com/i4rmMaU6lbp6e.png
http://i2.minus.com/iVLa9UhREgfS5.png
http://i1.minus.com/iyb60VdMNB3N7.png
http://i7.minus.com/ijBbnT1LXg1Xk.png
http://i2.minus.com/iBWvLDxC85Kr9.png

thanks for clearing that up. very impressive shots those

this is ingame.

looks very impressive

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

The chains look so much better in Infamous, as they aren't just drawn on the character's arm.


EDIT: Here's a better pic of Kratos' "2D" chains.

Since the first trailer of Infamous, I wasd impressed by the chains: they are 3d modeled with skeleton in them allowing them to cast shadaows and have physics and move and roll around Delsin's arms and jiggle when he runs while Kratos chains are just normal normal and bump maps imported from a higher res model.

 

[Darknight]

you know whats funny?

I remember seeing the first ISS teaser and I thought it was all CG. lol

 

[Reg]

I just find it silly to compare the actual game models for Infamous to uprezzed Ryse shots

Well, rendering at a lower resolution gives Crytek freedom to push higher quality assets. If Ryse was rendered at 1080p then the assets would probably have to take a hit to keep performance similar.

 

[Vitor711]

I don't disagree, it's immediately obvious that Delsin and Betty benefited from the greatest amount of work due to how much better they look compared to everyone else, but those two characters alone were enough to blow me away in terms of now good they looked and how impressive their facial animations were. I'd also maybe throw Hank in there too, but we see so little of him...

In terms of consistency across a number of characters, L.A Noire is definitely better than most, but it also suffers from some from really odd animation quirks. It does have some of the best subtle facial animations though.

Yeah, LA Noire's lack of motion capture for the neck downwards was a real issue. Shame though because the tech was amazing at the time. It looks less great now (especially when playing at higher resolutions on PC) but still beats the vast majority of games out there.

And yeah, the opening hours of I:SS blew me away too but once you moved out of the tutorial, the inconsistencies started to add up. Hank does look great too, forgot about him. Always easier to do characters with no hair though

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

It's funny, despite having 120k polys - a lot of them seemed wasted. Delsin does not look like a 120 K poly character

Uses a quarter of the polys yet Ellen's face looks better than Delsin's [in both ways..]... testament to Beyond, I guess.

Face =/= entire body.

Delsin actually looks like he is wearing actual clothing & not the rock chiseled armor that passes off as clothes in every other game.

I wonder how much polygons the characters in GTAV used.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the 100,000 range as well.

 

[Melchiah]

Since the first trailer of Infamous, I wasd impressed by the chains: they are 3d modeled with skeleton in them allowing them to cast shadaows and have physics and move and roll around Delsin's arms and jiggle when he runs while Kratos chains are just normal normal and bump maps imported from a higher res model.

Agreed. I hope the gear in games eventully gets close to Quantic Dream's tech demo. That was one of most impressive things in it for me.

 

[KKRT00]

Well, rendering at a lower resolution gives Crytek freedom to push higher quality assets. If Ryse was rendered at 1080p then the assets would probably have to take a hit to keep performance similar.

Not really, high polycount is not really as demanding on new hardware. Their shading, shadowing and post-processing take the most frametime.

 

[Apophis2036]

So this E3 is when we will get a much better idea of what all three consoles can do. We should see the new Halo / Gears for XBone, Uncharted 4 / something new from Santa Monica / Quantic Dream for PS4 and Zelda U / the first real playable demo footage of X.

Exciting times...

 

[Pachinko]

The visuals in Infamous really are quite impressive, it never seems to drop any lower then 30 fps and there has to be a TON of shit going on for it to push that hard. To learn the character models in an open world game like this are 5 times as detailed just in geometry leaves me to wonder just what a game built in a couple years will look like. Something locked to 30 FPS with cinematic gameplay (like uncharted) could see us hitting 250K plus triangles in a single character model. The texturing and pixel shading effects do tend to be more important in the long run but , let's just take a second to consider - on the PSone, the entire polygonal throughput over 30 seconds was only a little more then double what's in Delsins character model alone. Not to mention that it's being rendered with almost 30 times as many pixels on screen at once.

I really want to see these consoles pushed to the limit for a fighting game sometime soon and I don't mean Killer Instinct (as fun as it looks , it's not exactly a graphical showpiece).

 

[Alchemy]

I didn't think I drank that much, but I'm seeing people compare a linear action game to an open world one. I guess this is just extra dense vodka...

 

[Liabe Brave]

Not really, high polycount is not really as demanding on new hardware. Their shading, shadowing and post-processing take the most frametime.

Yeah, I don't think polycount is where the gains are anymore. For example, the Xbox 360 and Xbox One versions of Titanfall appear to have identical geometry (allowed by effective culling on the weaker machine). The compromises are in other places: textures, and the graphical effects you mentioned.