And what does that have to do with ue5? Does epic state they are using this custom hardware?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Inside Unreal: In-depth look at PS5's Lumen in the land Of Nanite demo(only 6.14gb of geometry) and Deep dive into Nanite
- Thread starter Lethal01
- Start date
- Status
VFXVeteran
Banned
The Order's 1886 SSS (as well as Uncharted 4's) is using a texture masked approach by creating textures that will "glow" around the ears (even God of War uses it). It's not a real SSS solution using Henyey-Greenstein phase function model. Todays games now use full SSS evaluation.
Your statement is equivalent to accusing me of saying a game doesn't use procedural texturing by computing it with a 2D array of random numbers and indexing those numbers based on a world space position. You'll say I'm wrong because a paper will say "we use procedural noise" by baking down the procedural into a texture and using it as a regular texture map. The two aren't the same.
I have a deeper knowledge on how these things get implemented so that's where you don't see what I"m seeing.
UC4 using GI is an approximation with one bounce done only on a flashlight. It is not using GI in a global lighting situation like RTGI. We could go on and on about this. The thing is instead of looking up stuff on google to try and refute me, you should try to understand what a developer means when he says something. I can easily work at any of these gaming studios and none of them would think I would be ignorant of these things. Yet, I have people who have never worked in the field telling me that I'm wrong because they don't understand fully what's happening at the rendering level.
Last edited:
You have no idea of what you talking about. Pretty much like always. but it is no longer important as most people understand now how ue5 works. You are an outelier
Last edited:
I’m sure he knows the difference.who's going to tell this guy that he is just playing the demo IN the editor. and all of us are talking about a COMPILED demo (as an .exe like vfxveretan's thread). i don't want to break their heart. the guy spent all day recording a video for nothing
from more to less resource intensive
Playing the demo in the editor (snake's video) > Exploring the project in the demo in the editor (epic's video) > Playing a compiled demo (ps5's demo)
PaintTinJr
Member
Pretty sure I just finished watching nearly three hours of interesting stuff about nanite - dovetailed lots of interesting stuff many of the technical here at gaf have discussed - like Brian's comparison of mipmaps for textures and difficulty of LoDs not having an equally simple filtering method, him clarifying why nanite meshes aren't real-time generated, which cause the limitations to non-uniform scaling and no animation, etc, etc with lots that can be discussed in this and other threads, and this was your opening post to trolling people - and you weren't even bringing quotes of what people should apologize for.@Bo_HazemPaintTinJr @muteZX @geordiemp
Where is my apology?
Can't run on PC huh? Or maybe run it on the editor too!
If I ever said the demo definitely won't run on a PC in any form - like this new world area grid solution in the pre-release, that Brian said wasn't in the 2020 PS5 demo, but is in what he showed on his work from home PC, that he also said had preloaded the entire data in memory for Lumen in the land of nanite, in his editor PC showcase - and you can find a quote - as they are the words you are attributing to me - then by all means, take a well earned apology, if you can.
So much of the twitch nanite stream really drilled into the way nanite taxes a GPU in ROPs and scales linearly by resolution by being all done in the rasterization (fragment shader) - according to Brian , which I also tried to discuss for weeks without people like VFXVeteran and you acknowledging.
So if we take - a mid range game clock for - a RTX 3090 and doing a quick estimate of pixel-rate (ROPs x clock = 112x1.7) ~190billion/s, and do the same for the highest next-gen console pixel-rate, we get 140billion/s. So assuming console optimizations like cache scrubbers, and streaming out compression to the SSD made no difference in the first UE5 Demo solution, then a RTX 3090 PC should be able to manage nanite at 1.35x the native resolution, = 3,456 x 1895 @ 30fps at the same fidelity settings AFAIK.
Lethal01
Member
You should try to not sound like a 12-year-old who's desperate to sound authoritative.
What you meant to say is "I meant X method of GI used at Y scale, and I'm sorry for speaking vaguely and making a blanket statement like Uncharted has no dynamic GI since it does" It's okay, it's a simple mistake. We can forgive you if you don't try to turn it into "All you guys are just idiots and what I actually meant is super clear and any real devs would know exactly what I'm saying" They don't.
What does your personal drama have to do with inside unreal?
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Did you watch the video?
He flys right through that area on his PC in the editor.. he outright states it's a misconception the demo would only work on PS5... he describes that it's actually all really efficient data wise, and implies it DOESNT require anything like the PS5 I/O maxed out.
Destruction happening doesn't increase data needs.. those systems running would do great on a PC... why wouldn't they?
None of what he showed required some insane I/O.. it makes no sense that it would, considering the entire demo was likely under 20GB on disk. Whether using an NVME drive (even before DirectStorage), or a combo of an SSD/NVME/HDD and system RAM.. that demo would run great on PC most likely.
As the dev.. stated.. in the video.. in the OP lol
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games
Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.
www.nvidia.com
DirectStorage + RTX I/O is the next-gen of the same concept.
AMD will likely have something similar.
PC GPUs already have more than enough extra power to take on decompression needs if a game would benefit from that.
It's all not quite there TODAY.. but either is UE5.. either is any game that really is clearly pushing any of this tech.. even Ratchet.
The cards that can do it are already here.. the API being released this year...
Last edited:
sainraja
Member
You don't need to explain that to me lol. From the outside, based on the posts I quoted, it seemed you guys were saying the same thing and still arguing over it as if you were not. I see now that he's insisting that the PC won't be able to run certain sections of that demo. I will leave that argument to you all.
Last edited:
PaintTinJr
Member
I might be mistaken, but his editor was showing 4096px in the top right menu for something, so I'd presume that was for textures, as virtual shadow maps are 16K according to the video. So if the textures were 4 times the size( and storage) for the 2020 real-time gameplay shown, and in 2020 they didn't have the world grid system of the new UE5 pre-release demo - as is stated in the twitch nanite video - so there's every possibility the PS5's version was streaming data crazily throughout - even if the editor mode he showed was all running from RAM - as he stated. The 2020 demo slides in an Unrealfest video does state the PS5 was stream compressing out to the PS5's SSD, as well as compressing geometry on the GPU in ram.
PaintTinJr
Member
Not that it detracts from this being a huge step up for PC and will be the baseline for UE5, but as it is a shared project with Microsoft, both the DirectStorage XVA and RTX IO are the same solution, and are still only a 20x reduction in latency over HDD - as stated in the XVA reveal info - not the 100x latency reduction of the IO complex solutionIntroducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games
Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.www.nvidia.com
DirectStorage + RTX I/O is the next-gen of the same concept.
AMD will likely have something similar.
PC GPUs already have more than enough extra power to take on decompression needs if a game would benefit from that.
It's all not quite there TODAY.. but either is UE5.. either is any game that really is clearly pushing any of this tech.. even Ratchet.
The cards that can do it are already here.. the API being released this year...
Last edited:
Papacheeks
Banned
Introducing NVIDIA RTX IO: GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology For The Next Generation of Games
Load instantaneously, experience vast worlds with endless views and rich detail, and further improve gameplay by leveraging the power of GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics cards and NVIDIA RTX IO.www.nvidia.com
DirectStorage + RTX I/O is the next-gen of the same concept.
AMD will likely have something similar.
PC GPUs already have more than enough extra power to take on decompression needs if a game would benefit from that.
It's all not quite there TODAY.. but either is UE5.. either is any game that really is clearly pushing any of this tech.. even Ratchet.
The cards that can do it are already here.. the API being released this year...
I said this? What you don't understand is direct storage still will use CPU cores to process the compressed data.
Did you not listening to what I said earlier about where we are headed? Direct storage in use with Nvidia and amd's API still will be based on software, and doesn't have 6 priority lanes on top of dedicated chips that literally handle data.
Pc still will use CPU/GPU cores to do the same thing.
Why do you think we are headed to chiplet? Do we can have a secondary chip with SRAM on the same dye as CPU. That's still years out.
harmny
Banned
Last edited:
The myth of Sony exceptionalism.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
HBO tentacle pron? >_>
Insane Metal
Member
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Calls someone a 12 year old then proceeds to act like a 12 year old, nice.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well he said it was the same demo repeatedly.. and stressed it runs fine on a PC. He's showing it off in the editor because he wanted to show all the different views like the triangle highlighting, making no mention of a difference in textures.. he outright states it as a misconception that only the PS5 could run the demo.
And it just doesn't make sense that a demo likely around 20GB in total size would ever really stress I/O that much. Even w/ 3x compression... that's 60GB... let's say that fly-through section is 10% of the demo.. that's 6GB uncompressed... if it's 25% of the data (very unlikely) it's still only 15GB. And compressed that's only 5GB...
RTX I/O is not XVA; it's the DirectStorage API w/ using an RTX GPU for decompression. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion it has the same limitations as XVA, MS doesn't have an RTX GPU for it's decompression... they outright state 100x throughput.
But the main thing about UE5.. is that it's actually extremely EFFICIENT with data.. that's the real advancement. Which makes the idea that it's heavily I/O dependent sort of.. a myth.
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It uses half a CPU core; the rest is done on the GPU. There is an insane amount of extra CPU power on PCs.. more than enough to spare.
Software? So what? That "software" runs on the GPU.. have you noticed how much power is available on PC GPUs? Just because there isn't a dedicated chip doesn't mean that's going to stress a PC GPU.
Most of UE5 uses "software" too.
You really think GPUs with 3x's the power and CPUs with multiple times the power can't overcome a dedicated decompression chip on the PS5?
Vick
Member
That was your defence last time as well, until people faced you with evidence of the entirety of the skin being affected.
About Uncharted 4 SSS, you went on record saying it didn't implement it. Then, that was only used in cutscenes:
Now, that it's just an approximation anyway. But it behave as it should, always, and therefore the game "implements SSS" (no matter which form of it).
One bounce? It affects the entire scene along with every surface, and it is not limited to a flashlight but extended to fire torches, matches, lighters and every kind of light source. Another lie.
In case the linked videos weren't sufficient i have many others effectively showcasing it.
Only difference between ND GI (software RT) and a full RT GI would be the introduction, on top of the already present self occlusion, of indirect shadows caused by real-time indirect light bounce.. a huge far cry from:
I'm also sure none of them would say that "there is nothing impressive in Sony FP titles, they do things every other developer does and only differences are artistic in nature".
The Order: 1886 pipeline is eight years old.. Naughty Dog's motion matching and soft-body dynamics still unparalleled, and capsule AO and soft shadows had no equals on console and basically still do on any other system not running on RTX.
And no other game does this in real-time:
P.S. For the love of God stop acting like a persecuted saint, you are permabanned on any other respectable Forum, do not work for any of these companies despite this being your field, and have verified people of the Industry on this Board calling you a clown for a reason.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I was going to post, but decided not to. I'll watch the mine field from afar. lol
Fredrik
Member
Doubting what? Did i said i was doubting that the PC could run UE5....? The engine is just ONE part of everything else. I bet my PC wouldn't perform the same if they ever release the PS5 demo for pc. I can already say that some of the heavy parts in that demo will cause heavy drops since assets won't load that fast on our NVMe drives compared to the dedication I/O chips the PS5 has.
Much less happens in this valley demo than in the PS5 demo, and not even completely stable in that little bit of combat you have at the end.
This last part will be much more resource heavy then the entire Valley demo.
I didn’t even install it on my NVMe drive, I installed it on an older sata ssd. Still only getting rare and short small dips at key locations, like after shooting to clear the path before the droid and like I said earlier at one spot after the droid fight if I look to the left. When flying the drone in the desert at the start it’s locked. And like I said, 60fps by tweaking the details, and this is a 4yo graphics card. And we don’t know how they had set up the PS5 demo, you probably think it’s the highest setting on everything, I think it’s carefully adjusted to get the framerate solid.
Load times will be faster on PS5 though, takes 10 seconds on my sata ssd to warp from the desert to the droid area, with some stuff at a distance arriving late.
Last edited:
no....there 3 cases who will use DirectStorage Api
Direct Storage ..(just every PC)
Direct Storage + RTX IO (PC which will use Nvidia GPUs to decompress data)
XVA (Custom NVME SSD + Direct Storage +HW Decompressor + SFS)
I am convinced that after Nvidia also amd will allow PC's to decompress data on their GPUs. So that 20X is the baseline
Last edited:
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Cuz PC doesnt "NEED" that, PCIE by definition is either talking directly to the CPU already or to the chipset.
With new IO solutions the CPU can even be bypassed entirely....why would we need something else to "talk" to the SSD?
The IPC of a full fat CPU/GPU is enough to not need to have a separate piece of hardware to do the decompression.
And once the Win 10 version with DirectStorage is out, devs will just force that version as minspec and the war is over.
Hell they could put an SSD in the rec spec as well to make sure their game works correct.
HDD for minspec but dont cry if the game runs like shit on your PC.
In a gaming PC you are going to have a GPU or CPU thats vastly superior at decompression instructions than the chip in the PS5 so why would anyone want to then have another custom chip to do that job, just schedule a core/thread or the GPU to do the job.
So yes you are correct there are no consumer level custom chips for I/O and decompression.....in the same vein on PC there are also no consumer level custom GPUs, or custom CPUs, or custom RAM configurations, or custom SSDs.....see where im going with this.
DirectStorage might be alot closer than you think.
:format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22554963/image001.jpg)
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
He was just using a damn camera to go over the area, same i did in my first part of the video in editor mode. That is really not the same as when all systems are enabled like in the PS5 demo. Flying in camera mode in editor is not the same as “he it can run on my system” since no mechanics run so your system is not stressed at al. Again look at my video.
M MonarchJT Why the fuck are you even trying to talk to me? You don’t know shit, i bet you just wanna say something instead going into discussion. I quite easy to say “like others already told you” yeah and there are also others that are explaining what i already said. You have guts to say this.
Fredrik
respect dude. Your the “only” one not going personal and just want a normal discussion. I also had some dips, and in others runs dips at places i didn’t had before. But the whole point of this thread and what people tried to claim from the start was “ooh look they lied, demo can run on pc”. But what we’ve seen was a map area without any control over mechanics which is much less resource intensive because you can crank camera speed and fly over the area with the camera without any interaction with the area, no collision, no vfx, and all other mechanics. So as long as we haven’t seen the demo on the pc running and playable like the Valley demo. We don’t know how it will run on different systems. And like i said, i bet some of the heavy sections wont do well on the ssd side or even fps.But why not, let EPIC release the demo if possible for the pc.
Last edited:
yes yes sure...but your were wrong yesterday one month ago and today I was and im right from monthsHe was just using a damn camera to go over the area, same i did in my first part of the video in editor mode. That is really not the same as when all systems are enabled like in the PS5 demo. Flying in camera mode in editor is not the same as “he it can run on my system” since no mechanics run so your system is not stressed at al. Again look at my video.
M MonarchJT Why the fuck are you even trying to talk to me? You don’t know shit, i bet you just wanna say something instead going into discussion. I quite easy to say “like others already told you” yeah and there are also others that are explaining what i already said. You have guts to say this.
Last edited:
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Let's rewind again. Maybe you and that weird raja guy need to see how things unfolded here. There's no way you are that blind or lacking that much self awareness.He was just using a damn camera to go over the area, same i did in my first part of the video in editor mode. That is really not the same as when all systems are enabled like in the PS5 demo. Flying in camera mode in editor is not the same as “he it can run on my system” since no mechanics run so your system is not stressed at al. Again look at my video.
M MonarchJT Why the fuck are you even trying to talk to me? You don’t know shit, i bet you just wanna say something instead going into discussion. I quite easy to say “like others already told you” yeah and there are also others that are explaining what i already said. You have guts to say this.
Here's my very first post in this thread. I never said anything wrong.
You reply with a respectful response
I reply back with a respectful post as well.
Then outta no where you get some courage to try and act better than others and pretend you know what you are talking about. I never did or said anything to get your panties in a bunch.
And you wonder why all of us respond back to you with the same energy you gave us? Or why no one is really trying to help you understand why you have been wrong all along. If you didn't beat your chest so loud, I'm sure all of us would be willing to help you understand the differences, or how to compile the demo into an executable, etc. It takes 2 to tango, so next time come correct, and no one would be as asshole right back to you.
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
All of us? Really, i see the same 5 people constantly…so sorry, that doesn’t mean you guys are completely right since others also had discussions with you “all”. It’s not me against the thread and so far my evidence is in this thread were i can claim that the editor is less resource heavy. I even fly fast over the canyon, same they did in the last section from the PS5 demo. Editor mode is more flexible to go anywhere on the map without any mechanics enabled.
M MonarchJT ow sure so my video is also fake like everything that has to do with UE5 right? Come back when you have the editor running on your little pc. Just watch my video or shut up.
From here i’m done with the thread. At this point we’ve only see it running in realtime on the PS5, and just a editor overview from the devs on pc. Maybe next-time they will show if and how it will run on pc playable and maybe side by side with the PS5 version.
Last edited:
the editor require many , many more resources. period.
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Have you compiled the demo yet? As that's one of the things that keeps being brought up. It's not a proper compared to hitting the play button in the editor. Try running all 3, and let us know in order, what uses the most to least resources out of the three options. Until you do that, it will continue to be the same people arguing against what you are claiming, as we've all ran it already.
Here
Snake29
Last edited:
Brofist
Member
Yeah best to give it up fella, you've dug yourself in a hole that you can't get out of, and it's obvious you are clueless.
Last edited:
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Try to cook, bake, compile, broil, fry, grill the demo, and see what uses more resources. I'm almost beginning to think you are trolling at this point... You keep purposely skipping that step that we have all been saying. That way you can test without the editor running. And using common sense, we should be able to conclude that it would use less resources as the editor won't need to be running anymore. And to be sure, you can run that cooked demo and how much resources it would be using in comparison to running the editor in free roam or hitting the play button.
I don't think any of us can make it any clearer to you at this point. If you don't want to try it out, cool, but don't sit up here and argue with those that have already done this, hence why we know which is heavier for a fact.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
You know, I genuinely like a lot of people on this forum...from all sides and it’s painful to see all this back and forth. Let’s say hyperthetically that Epic aren’t very clever and catered an engine that could do these demo flyby moments on only one platform out of say the 4 to 5 they are really targeting.
we will never see a game on ps5 using unreal engine 5 and the full incredible utilisation of the god like ps5 IO because it’s pretty obvious that the current sony has pivoted to look at keeping games on PS4 and even more so bringing games to pc. So until mass consumer pcs have the same IO as the ps5 we won’t see games utilising the ssd that way.
Long story short, IF and a big IF (which I personally don’t believe) only the ps5 could pull off the clearly scripted fly by scene we will not see anything doing that on ps5 using unreal engine 5 This Gen. Maybe the ps6.
also,we are in e3 season so let’s get hyped for the real games we will actually see instead of some tech demo that will never be a game.
we will never see a game on ps5 using unreal engine 5 and the full incredible utilisation of the god like ps5 IO because it’s pretty obvious that the current sony has pivoted to look at keeping games on PS4 and even more so bringing games to pc. So until mass consumer pcs have the same IO as the ps5 we won’t see games utilising the ssd that way.
Long story short, IF and a big IF (which I personally don’t believe) only the ps5 could pull off the clearly scripted fly by scene we will not see anything doing that on ps5 using unreal engine 5 This Gen. Maybe the ps6.
also,we are in e3 season so let’s get hyped for the real games we will actually see instead of some tech demo that will never be a game.
Last edited:
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Nice drive by shitpost.
What point do you want to make with "packaging"? It's only for exporting it to upload it on the marketplace. If i package it, it will still run on my hardware so it doesn't make any sense what you're saying here. But thnx for sharing this video because i looked at it, and still trying to figure out what point you try to make.
The Valley demo is already a separate package you need to download. When you open the file, it will open the UE5 editor.
So there is nothing different from already running in the editor and then export the SAME DEMO and run it again lol.....
Last edited:
DonJuanSchlong
Banned
Look man, I'm trying to help you out. Instead of assuming or going by what you think, just hear me out.
When you export the demo, you can run it without the editor. You can even uninstall the editor, and still run the demo, as the editor will no longer be a prerequisite. And you don't have to upload it either. Just export and run.
Why not just try it out? That way you can have a real comparison, and can see for yourself that the exported demo uses way less resources than it does running the editor on top.
Brofist
Member
I've followed the whole topic, what can I say that hasn't been said by 100 people now. You need another A-Z explanation that you won't understand or just dismiss?
Last edited:
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
It's special strange when every PS5 user here also have high-end PC.
GuinGuin
Banned
A few games that have been in development for 3+ years are cross gen and you think Sony has given up on PS5 exclusives? Seriously. This forum is so full of people with no grasp on reality. Guess what, Rift Apart comes out in a few days and is using the SSD and godlike I/O to it's fullest as will the first Unreal 5 games released on PS5.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
hey sorry, I didn’t realise rift apart was using unreal engine 5 and utilising the tech we saw in the ue5 demo. Try reading my post please.
also, games take like 5 years to make now. So let’s start developing a game at the end of this year on ue5 and we may see it at the end of the ps5s lifecycle. Shits not really gonna be here until ps6 and then you will be all going on about some other bullshit that Cerny, Tim Sweeney fed you all.
Last edited:
mansoor1980
Gold Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Breathtaking.
i just wanna see a huge shadow of the colossus beast step around that mountain!
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Flying through the scene manually in the engine viewport is the same as doing it in a release build. Only with extra engine overhead (significant), and minus the animated player Actor and camera (insignificant).
Whatever you can do in the engine, you can always do faster in a cooked build.
Whatever you can do in the engine, you can always do faster in a cooked build.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
looks real , amazeballs
GuinGuin
Banned
Do I need to point out that Sony had early access to Unreal 5 and already has games in development that will likely use it like the new IP from Bend?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
looking forward to seeing an actual game on ue5 on ps5 and what Sony first party can do with it. Let’s pick up in 6 years seeings though that’s how long bend took with Days Gone.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked