• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Ironfall Invasion temporarily removed from European 3DS eShop

Technoweirdo

Member
Dec 20, 2011
942
0
0
Nintendo enforced region restrictions in the first place. It's also Nintendo who pulled Ironfall off eShop, not smea. If Nintendo was the one who found the exploit, it'd still be pulled.

It's not smea's fault.

-

If the worst thing Ironhax (or any variant) enables is SNES emulation via homebrew and thus potential SNES ROM piracy, I'd say it was unreasonable of them to remove it when you consider that there are far easier and better avenues for SNES piracy, avenues that Nintendo has little control over, avenues that have been around for a pretty long time. The impact should be negligible.

Meanwhile, best thing about Ironhax is enabling importers to play the games they legally own copies of. Way I see it, it's like they don't want people buying games i.e. missing oppurtunities to easily make back any losses created by the small niche that wants SNES piracy specifically on 3DS. The importing community can't be -that- small.
 

me0wish

Member
Jun 1, 2014
1,734
78
530
I wouldn't be surprised if they made money during this period more than they did since launch, this hack gave the game exposure more than the devs could ever dream of, I personally know people that paid for the game after trying it because of the hack.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,335
1
0
Nintendo enforced region restrictions in the first place. It's also Nintendo who pulled Ironfall off eShop, not smea. If Nintendo was the one who found the exploit, it'd still be pulled.

It's not smea's fault.

-

If the worst thing Ironhax (or any variant) enables is SNES emulation via homebrew and thus potential SNES ROM piracy, I'd say it was unreasonable of them to remove it when you consider that there are far easier and better avenues for SNES piracy, avenues that Nintendo has little control over, avenues that have been around for a pretty long time. The impact should be negligible.

Meanwhile, best thing about Ironhax is enabling importers to play the games they legally own copies of. Way I see it, it's like they don't want people buying games i.e. missing oppurtunities to easily make back any losses created by the small niche that wants SNES piracy specifically on 3DS. The importing community can't be -that- small.
Ninjhax enables homebrew, which enables CFW hacks, which enable direct 3DS piracy. Ironhax will do the same.

I have a Ninjhax hacked 3DS but it doesn't get much use. It'll be nice if the homebrew community picks up and there are more interesting things to do with it at some point.
 

Dunnymeister

Member
Aug 27, 2010
205
0
0
Straya
Then why couldn't smealum have just let it be someone else
Does it matter who did it? It was going to happen eventually since the code was exploitable. Prevention is better than cure, if you want your product to remain available for sale you make sure it works.

As a side note - I wonder how many extra sales the exploit pulled in?
 

Yaranaika

Member
Mar 28, 2012
558
0
0
So he should be sorry, exploiting a game from a non existent developer or from a big publisher is one thing, but to exploit a 3 man studio that spent years coding in assembly to make the most technically stunning looking 3ds game is pretty damn cuntish really
Yeah, but they just got thousands of download over the last week and hopefully some sales off of that.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Mar 20, 2015
4,725
0
340
I mean... sure? But it's not really a problem, per se. The exploit doesn't open the door to piracy (since neither NinjaHax nor the OoT did); it only makes Homebrew possible on the 3DS. There's no harm in that... it even allows imported games to be played on any console regardless of its locked region, which is something that people have been clamoring for since the 3DS was first released.
That's not really how this works. Being able to directly run unsigned code on the system vastly increases the attack surface which could be used for other more unsavory things. Security flaws are serious business and Nintendo/VD-dev are taking the correct course of action by trying to fix this.

It honestly depends on a few variables, some of which we know and some which we don't. We know that the company behind it still exists and has a semi-active Twitter account, so that's one problem less compared to Cubic Ninja. What we don't know is how severe the bug can be. Smea's description of CN's code basically claimed that the thing has used unsafe function calls everywhere. If this thing is similar, cleaning it up can take too long for it to be profitable.
According to pre release trailers, the engine for IronFall is written 100% in assembly. Considering the code works at all, it probably is at least somewhat clean (as clean as assembly can get, at least), but fixing this issue could really suck.
 

Technoweirdo

Member
Dec 20, 2011
942
0
0
Ninjhax enables homebrew, which enables CFW hacks, which enable direct 3DS piracy. Ironhax will do the same.

I have a Ninjhax hacked 3DS but it doesn't get much use. It'll be nice if the homebrew community picks up and there are more interesting things to do with it at some point.
Yeah, digging around, CFW does allow running pirated 3DS games, but said CFW doesn't seem to like running on 3DSs with system versions higher than 9.2 -- and Ironhax is designed specifically for those on 9.9.

Might do so in the future (I hope not) but, at least for now, Ironhax won't allow 3DS piracy. I stand corrected on the variants though.
 

Vena

Member
Sep 2, 2014
16,385
0
0
Nintendo enforced region restrictions in the first place. It's also Nintendo who pulled Ironfall off eShop, not smea. If Nintendo was the one who found the exploit, it'd still be pulled.

It's not smea's fault.
Region restrictions with the 3DS aren't going to go away, simple as that, since there are likely numerous contracts behind it with retailers and markets. No matter how much people poke and prod at the code.

All this did was get a dev's hard work pulled from the store front. (Also looks like he might have actually gotten himself into trouble... that or Nintendo decided to hire him, lol.)
 

Worthintendo

Member
Feb 22, 2011
2,403
0
680
Perth Australia
The big thing I worry about with this is that its going to make it harder for games to get on the eShop and we'll see even less stuff.

Glad I upgraded to the full version earlier today before it all got taken off.
 

KHlover

Banned
Jun 26, 2013
13,792
0
0
He bloody should be sorry, look its one thing to have a go using an old game thats no longer being made from a developer who I don't think is around anymore.
But this hurts the guys behind Ironfall, it was a source of income for them and he's gone and screwed that up for them meaning they will need to do more work to try and fix.

I'm all for removing region free, but there have to be other ways around it that don't hurt small game studios.
It's a free game and they got a couple hundred thousand downloads on the first day the exploit was announced. That's as much as in the entire lifetime of the game before.

They know what's happening and they're happy about it.







They likely made more money from being the exploit game than as a forgotten, mediocre game on the eShop if even a tiny fraction of those who downloaded IronFall now bought some DLC.
 

patientx

Member
Sep 24, 2011
847
0
475
Turkey
hasanaslan.info
1. Sky is not very effective against latest games. (or so they say in the "scene")

2. Ironfall exploit is actually looks like the same thing with Cubic Ninja exploit.

3. Before Ironfall exploit was found, they also found that Ocarina of Time 3D also has the same exploit.

So there are three games now that produces same exploit thus enabling to run homebrew code, custom themes and most importantly region free gaming on the 3ds/n3ds.
 

Hitoribhoshi

Member
Feb 22, 2011
625
0
0
yeah the 2 newest games, FE Fates and Animal Crossing Home Designer don't work...but every other imported games on the 3DS does. (and a new sky3DS or assimilated with an updatable fw will come out eventually in order to fix that AP scheme)

(that being said I don't own a sky3ds)
 

L.O.R.D

Member
Apr 14, 2011
10,164
0
715
really ?
It's a free game and they got a couple hundred thousand downloads on the first day the exploit was announced. That's as much as in the entire lifetime of the game before.

They know what's happening and they're happy about it.







They likely made more money from being the exploit game than as a forgotten, mediocre game on the eShop if even a tiny fraction of those who downloaded IronFall now bought some DLC.
this
people forget this is a free game
many people here didn't even bother to try the game , that game is not very good
but thanks to the exploit , they gain alot of download
my guessing they gained more then 500000 downloads from the announcement of the exploit to yesterday , that about 12 days ?
 

Parshias7

Member
Feb 27, 2015
1,279
2
0
this
people forget this is a free game
many people here didn't even bother to try the game , that game is not very good
but thanks to the exploit , they gain alot of download
my guessing they gained more then 500000 downloads from the announcement of the exploit to yesterday , that about 12 days ?
So you think people downloading a dev's free game and then never playing it is... a good thing?

They only get money if users go on to spend $10 on either single player or multiplayer, which none of the people interested in the exploit are doing.
 

KHlover

Banned
Jun 26, 2013
13,792
0
0
So you think people downloading a dev's free game and then never playing it is... a good thing?

They only get money if users go on to spend $10 on either single player or multiplayer, which none of the people interested in the exploit are doing.
Going by the overall reception of the game no one else was doing so either so I don't see what your point is.
 

Parshias7

Member
Feb 27, 2015
1,279
2
0
Going by the overall reception of the game no one else was doing so either so I don't see what your point is.
People are trying to pass this off as a good thing for the devs. I don't think there's a horde of people wanting to get in on spending $20 on this game in the future, but it being removed from the eShop limits whatever legitimate audience this title might have had left. There isn't any way you can spin this as being a good thing for the dev team.
 

L.O.R.D

Member
Apr 14, 2011
10,164
0
715
really ?
So you think people downloading a dev's free game and then never playing it is... a good thing?

They only get money if users go on to spend $10 on either single player or multiplayer, which none of the people interested in the exploit are doing.
you should try playing the game
i downloaded the game day one , played the first level , never opened the game again
i also tried the game with the circle pad pro , it was better , but still not good

people forgot this game even exist , don't worry
the game will be back om the eshop soon
 

KHlover

Banned
Jun 26, 2013
13,792
0
0
People are trying to pass this off as a good thing for the devs. I don't think there's a horde of people wanting to get in on spending $20 on this game in the future, but it being removed from the eShop limits whatever legitimate audience this title might have had left. There isn't any way you can spin this as being a good thing for the dev team.
The devs literally thanked everyone who downloaded the game after the announcement of the leak. YOU are the one trying to spin this here.
 

Parshias7

Member
Feb 27, 2015
1,279
2
0
The devs literally thanked everyone who downloaded the game after the announcement of the leak. YOU are the one trying to spin this here.
And if you read their thank you, the devs ask the new users to spend $10 for the multiplayer. Which they did not, since its not needed for the exploit. I'm sure the devs are having a ton of fun with the zero dollars they just earned. They can take that money and spend it on salaries for the time they'll need to patch the game so it can go back on sale.
 

L.O.R.D

Member
Apr 14, 2011
10,164
0
715
really ?
And if you read their thank you, the devs ask the new users to spend $10 for the multiplayer. Which they did not, since its not needed for the exploit. I'm sure the devs are having a ton of fun with the zero dollars they just earned. They can take that money and spend it on salaries for the time they'll need to patch the game so it can go back on sale.
you can play mutiplayer for free
the 10$ for the full mutiplayer maps and full single player
 

wrowa

Member
Jul 26, 2006
14,351
1
1,170
Germany
People are trying to pass this off as a good thing for the devs. I don't think there's a horde of people wanting to get in on spending $20 on this game in the future, but it being removed from the eShop limits whatever legitimate audience this title might have had left. There isn't any way you can spin this as being a good thing for the dev team.
The game will be unavailable for a week or two, you are acting like it will never come back. :p

Ironfall released to little to no fanfare and was entirely forgotten a couple weeks after launch. It's a game that already was at the end of its lifespan - and now got a tremendous amount of exposure due to the exploit. Will it result to a huge amount of actual sales? Probably not. But they likely still have sold more copies in the last few weeks than they had before and being unavailable for a short time won't change this.

The biggest sales problem of Ironfall is still rooted in the fact that it is a game people only ever cared for due its graphics and yet they made it F2P. I know a lot of people who downloaded the game when it launched, and yet I know no one who wanted to continue playing after the first level... I'm sure they would have made more money if they actually charged a couple bucks for the download.
 

Doczu

Member
Aug 17, 2012
2,914
1,204
730
Poland
And if you read their thank you, the devs ask the new users to spend $10 for the multiplayer. Which they did not, since its not needed for the exploit. I'm sure the devs are having a ton of fun with the zero dollars they just earned. They can take that money and spend it on salaries for the time they'll need to patch the game so it can go back on sale.
Please tell me how much money would they earn if all those people wouldn't download that game during those 12 days. The same amount. So if 300.000 (or more) people downloaded the game and some of them paid 10 or 20 bucks to unlock the singleplayer/multiplayer because they tested it and found it fun, then made money. And we don't know how many of these people bought the dlc.
 
Jun 26, 2013
2,392
0
425
I think that we all want to know the answer to this question: does The Great Ace Attorney have an English text option like early Ace Attorney games on Japan?
 

tkscz

Member
Oct 17, 2011
9,366
1,474
870
you should try playing the game
i downloaded the game day one , played the first level , never opened the game again
i also tried the game with the circle pad pro , it was better , but still not good

people forgot this game even exist , don't worry
the game will be back om the eshop soon
I played the game, it isn't that bad. It's not amazing, but it's not horrible. It's an ok handheld TPS that I did pay the $10 for. But honestly, if the multiplayer is anything to go off of, I'm the only one who did.

As for the hack, I agree that while a massive amount of people downloaded it, VD Dev won't see a cent out of it. Unless these people start feeling sorry for VDD, no one will pay for it, just use the exploit.
 

stan423321

Member
Jul 24, 2014
4,817
0
0
There's an exploit in OoT3D?
It is a little more complicated. There is a save file ROP exploit known, but unlike Cubic Ninja and presumably Ironfall there is no in-game method of installing it, so eShop version is safe unless you already have some sort of attack vector (with a cartridge, you can buy a save "cheat" device). And then, there are rumours of multiple versions of the game with varying vulnerability, but I can't verify this.

The exploit has been used by Gateway team in firmware 9.2 to launch a kernel mode exploit, and apparently remains operable, since smealum announced a port of ninjhax2 to it.
 

Junahu

Member
Feb 3, 2015
978
0
0
Because other people exploit shit for profit or piracy. If it's inevitable someone does this, best it be smealum.
More than one person can exploit a vulnerability. Someone with honest intentions getting to it first does not stop anyone else from making a more nefarious exploit out of it.
 

NewGame

Banned
May 26, 2013
6,969
2
0
This is pretty funny (AND SCANDALOUS!!) I hope he tells everyone to download Steeldiver next.
 

Shiggy

Member
Jun 10, 2004
26,711
1
1,665
No one, for whatever reason, should be persuaded to download that app.
True. Cannot believe they even bothered. Was it fully done by Factor V or does it just use their streaming technology?
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
Sep 5, 2012
6,662
3
435
Spain
www.resetera.com
No one, for whatever reason, should be persuaded to download that app.
True. Cannot believe they even bothered. Was it fully done by Factor V or does it just use their streaming technology?
The YouTube app is just a rebranded original 3DS browser. Its exploitability has been known for quite some time. You can literally exit YouTube by clicking on any link that points outside its walled garden. For example, in the Licences and Terms section of the app there's a link to Google itself.

Why tell people not to download it, though? It's only 100 blocks, so telling people not to download it is rather counterproductive. At most, they can delete it if the exploit doesn't work.
 

ZeroX03

Member
Oct 23, 2009
27,340
0
620
Australia/New Zealand
More than one person can exploit a vulnerability. Someone with honest intentions getting to it first does not stop anyone else from making a more nefarious exploit out of it.
Actually now that Ironfall can't be downloaded, it kind of does. Only Smealum followers who downloaded the game will be able to make use of any future exploits from other people. He's severely limited the future audience of people who want to use Ironfall for piracy.
 

Hitoribhoshi

Member
Feb 22, 2011
625
0
0
The YouTube app is just a rebranded original 3DS browser. Its exploitability has been known for quite some time. You can literally exit YouTube by clicking on any link that points outside its walled garden. For example, in the Licences and Terms section of the app there's a link to Google itself.

Why tell people not to download it, though? It's only 100 blocks, so telling people not to download it is rather counterproductive. At most, they can delete it if the exploit doesn't work.
Exactly.
YT will probably let ppl install ironhax without Cubic Ninja or ZeldaOOT3D (and let you launch homebrew with wifi on)
My guess is iron hax will be the offline thing.

isn't the YT app thing thread worthy over here ?
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
54,014
0
1,140
Why tell people not to download it, though? It's only 100 blocks, so telling people not to download it is rather counterproductive. At most, they can delete it if the exploit doesn't work.
You do realise that was just a tongue in cheek dig at the awfulness of the app right?
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
28,956
2
620
I'm not europe, but I already have it on my 3DS when I took a moment to think about it.

Still haven't played it, and I'm one of the people who was big on Sub Wars back in the day.