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[DenogginizerOS]

I had one of those Wii moments the other night that convinced me Nintendo is winning right now because they are providing a highly interactive fresh experience that has never been executed so well before in gaming. My 5-year-old daughter and my 59 year-old mother were bowling in the living room and were having as much fun as a grandmother and granddaughter can have. I heard my mom say over and over how fun and neat the Wii was. Even my dad, who is difficult to excite, acknowledged that the Wii was "pretty cool". Now, he remembers when I got my NES and how Nintendo seemingly took over the world back in the 80's. He said it sounded like to him that this was happening again. But he asked me about the X360 and the PS3 and wanted to know if they were going to release a controller like the Wii and it made me think. If X360 and/or Sony fully copied the Wii-Mote, would it suddenly increase their sales?

My answer is no. The reason: Sony and MS want to give gamers physics based gameplay, with photorealistic graphics, online play, downloadable entertainment, all in HD with surround sound. Their strategy is long-term and will take much longer to evolve than the much more tangible strategy of Nintendo with its user-friendly Wii. In my opinion, gamers are on a high right now with the Wii. The question is how long will the high last before gamers want more?

Which leads me to another question. When will we see PS3 and X360 deliver something so fresh and exciting that the Wii might possibly be eclipsed as the must-have system? I think that something like Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4 is the easy answer to this question, but I really believe it will be a game we weren't expecting that delivers on the promise of the much criticized target videos we have seen in the past. Perhaps GDC will provide the answer, but until then, I will just have to surrender the living room to my parents and my daughter so they can play the Wii.

 

[Fredrik]

The question is how long will the high last before gamers want more?

Probably not for much longer. I had exactly the same experience as you, I got both friends and family to have a blast with the Wii and personally I stopped playing on the 360 and didn't touch it for over a month. Traditional gaming was dead to me.

But now?
Well, friends and family don't care all that much anymore and personally I'm mainly playing on the 360 and is basically just using the Wii for Virtual Console and some occasional Wii Sports session.

Sad but true.

But I'm not bored of Wii as a console, it's just that I want more games like Wii Sports and not Xbox/PS2/PSP ports with new controls. I want new games with new gameplay. That's what got me to buy a Wii and that's what's going to keep me playing on the Wii. Nintendo needs to stop stalling with their first party games and at least show us some hints on what type of real Wii-generation type of games they have under development.

 

[antispin]

"Moisture is the essence of freshness, and freshness is the essence of beauty"

 

[bud]

the wii reminds me of those systems they sell on the homeshopping network. you know where they say omg this system is incredibly cheep and you get one cartrigde with it which contains over a HUNDRED games for the enitre family to have fun with!

and this is why it's selling.

Spoiler

lolz

 

[ElectricBlue187]

The question is how long will the high last before gamers want more?

that high has already passed for this gamer

 

[Prine]

Broke gamers!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Graphics IMO

 

[Defuser]

I wouldn't say fresh but they are aiming at different audience who think it is fresh.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

that high has already passed for this gamer

I am the same. But has that high been restored by Sony or MS or a PC game recently? For me, I am looking to Crackdown and Motorstorm and possibly F1 to give me a new experience, but I am keeping my hopes suppressed in preparation for disappointment.

 

[methane47]

I totally agee on Wii's "freshness"

I keep on going over in my head... thinking about what opportunity will this leave Nintendo for the next generation?

In my mind Nintendo will now never be able to justify a new system. All they can do Now in regards to the console is just update the one they have...

 

[travisbickle]

I think the xbox 360 made next-gen stale, more than the wii fresh.

 

[R0nn]

Is "freshness" the secret to Wii's success?

Yes it is. It's fresh to core and hardcore players who never used a control method like this before and because it could do good things to certain genres like shooters. It's fresh to casuals for about the same reason and also because it has the potential to offer some quick fun and entertainment. It's fresh to the mainstream (ie. so called non-gamers) because they've never seen a videogame device before with this kind of accessible interface which seems fun to them.

Now I will take the time to read your opening post.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Well, I don't know about all that, but it seems like the Wii's success gives some people a not-so-fresh feeling.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

"Freshness" as you call it is a part of it, but do really think that that is the sole reason for Nintendo's successes so far?

This seems like another veiled "The Wii is a novelty" type threads.

 

[Draft]

"Moisture is the essence of freshness, and freshness is the essence of beauty"

Merman, pop. ...merman.

Anyway this is clearly a camouflaged Wii is gimmicky thread. And I guess it is gimmicky but it doesn't matter because the public has spoken, and the public wants Wii.

 

[Zoramon089]

I like how people ignore all the games coming out for the Wii and think that this is it...

 

[Lord Error]

I pretty much completely agree with Denogs opinion, and I don't see that as a knock against Wii, perhaps the opposite actually. The question of how long that freshness will last, will in large part depend on Nintendo themselves and other devs of course, to provide compelling games and ideas that keep it fresh.

 

[RubxQub]

Even as a massive supporter of what the Wii is trying to do with gaming, I have also not picked up my Wii as much as I'd like to.

I'm currently filling my void with VC games and playing co-op 360 games with my roomate.

The great news, however, are the things that aren't even here yet that have the potential to kick the Wii into high gear again:

- Online play (huge question mark here, but at least something is on the way)
- Original Content on the VC (It's been talked about a lot as of late, and could open tons of doors)
- Mario Galaxy (impressions of this game were overly positive, title that appeals to the masses)
- Smash Bros. Brawl (one has to come to terms that this fighting game is a juggernaut)

It isn't just titles that the Wii is going to be adding, it's features too.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

I haven't really had much chance to play my Wii. I moved it out into the living room (which now doubles as my brother's bedroom) and he and his friends are usually on it. Like any system at launch, I kind of hit a wall at first waiting for Smash Bros and Mario Galaxy to really get me into it.

Same thing happened with the 360, really. Actually, it's still happening. I'm not really much of a shooter fan and I couldn't get into Gears. I'm basically playing a ton of XboxLive and waiting for MLB2k7 and Blue Dragon.

I've never found one console to satisfy me. "traditional gaming" gets tired, but so does non-traditional if that's all you're playing. It makes more sense to get the best of both worlds.

...oh, and Fire Emblem's gonna fuse me to my Wii whenever it comes out over here.

 

[Pureauthor]

The freshness will last as long as Nintendo continues to make games that demonstrate said freshness.

That aside, the reason a game console sells is 'software, software, software'. If the software is fresh, then so be it.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

"Freshness" as you call it is a part of it, but do really think that that is the sole reason for Nintendo's successes so far?

This seems like another veiled "The Wii is a novelty" type threads.

I don't do those kinds of threads. Right now, I see the industry at a huge starting line and we are are all waiting for the pistol to fire to get this next-gen fully underway. In my opinion, the Wii is the favorite out of the blocks right now because it is the darling of the media and many gamers, but will it have the legs to win the long race ahead? I just think the Wii's success right now is not written in stone and I am postulating on how all three console makers will try to capture the market for the long haul and who is best prepared to do this on all fronts.

 

[GameGamer]

Which leads me to another question. When will we see PS3 and X360 deliver something so fresh and exciting that the Wii might possibly be eclipsed as the must-have system?

This kind of talk is amazing to me.

Gears, Viva Pinata, Rainbow 6, Crackdown, HD download movies, Live (is a solid service), HD games, Surround, etc.

That's about as good as I've ever seen a system firing on all 8 in such a short period of time.

.

 

[MrSardonic]

When will we see PS3 and X360 deliver something so fresh and exciting that the Wii might possibly be eclipsed as the must-have system? I think that something like Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4 is the easy answer to this question, but I really believe it will be a game we weren't expecting that delivers on the promise of the much criticized target videos we have seen in the past.

I don't think anything on X360 or PS3 could provide the kind of experience that would attract the non/ex gamers like Wii can. You're crazy if you think MGS4 or Halo3 even vaguely stand a chance of capturing the areas of the market DS/Wii are going for. Even as a gamer, the interface of the X360/PS3 instantly prevents it from providing anything radically "fresh" despite the fact that many games on these systems will be excellent and original...but they are confined to working with a pre-existing formula.

Wii's strength is that it has no competitors in a massive area of the consumer electronics market thanks to the accessibility to games that it provides. As long as Nintendo kick into gear with the software in a similar way to how they did with the DS (a while after launch) then the Wii is going to have a good future in the US/EU. It doesn't actually matter who thinks which console is the "must have".

 

[koam]

is this zoolander day? i keep seeing zoolander pics in each thread i go to. Not that i have a problem with that. just saying.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

This kind of talk is amazing to me.

Gears, Viva Pinata, Rainbow 6, Crackdown, HD download movies, Live (is a solid service), HD games, Surround, etc.

That's about as good as I've ever seen a system firing on all 8 in such a short period of time.

.

Then why is the X360 losing out to Wii in the area of demand? I agree that the X360 has a lot in place and they, like the Wii, have given us a taste of what is to come, but don't you think the X360 would be the leader right now amongst all gamers if it were truly delivering on all 8 as you say?

 

[ziran]

I had one of those Wii moments the other night that convinced me Nintendo is winning right now because they are providing a highly interactive fresh experience that has never been executed so well before in gaming. My 5-year-old daughter and my 59 year-old mother were bowling in the living room and were having as much fun as a grandmother and granddaughter can have. I heard my mom say over and over how fun and neat the Wii was. Even my dad, who is difficult to excite, acknowledged that the Wii was "pretty cool". Now, he remembers when I got my NES and how Nintendo seemingly took over the world back in the 80's. He said it sounded like to him that this was happening again. But he asked me about the X360 and the PS3 and wanted to know if they were going to release a controller like the Wii and it made me think. If X360 and/or Sony fully copied the Wii-Mote, would it suddenly increase their sales?

My answer is no. The reason: Sony and MS want to give gamers physics based gameplay, with photorealistic graphics, online play, downloadable entertainment, all in HD with surround sound. Their strategy is long-term and will take much longer to evolve than the much more tangible strategy of Nintendo with its user-friendly Wii. In my opinion, gamers are on a high right now with the Wii. The question is how long will the high last before gamers want more?

Which leads me to another question. When will we see PS3 and X360 deliver something so fresh and exciting that the Wii might possibly be eclipsed as the must-have system? I think that something like Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4 is the easy answer to this question, but I really believe it will be a game we weren't expecting that delivers on the promise of the much criticized target videos we have seen in the past. Perhaps GDC will provide the answer, but until then, I will just have to surrender the living room to my parents and my daughter so they can play the Wii.

this is a key point imo. the fight for dominance this generation isn't one just about software its as much a battle of strategies.

nothing is certain and the race isn't over yet, but if wii's strategy continues to succeed imo it will have a bigger dominance over 360 and ps3, than ps2 had over xbox and gc, because they're such different experiences and wii potentially appeals to a much bigger audience.

if you accept:
- nintendo makes fun, simple gaming better than anyone
- most people aren't bothered about graphics
- they see videogames as a bit of occasional fun
- they think the difference between zelda tp and gears/resistance, as epic, realistic, cinematic, hd, 5.1, experiences, isn't that significant
understanding wii's success is easy.

the other thing to remember, which is often ignored, is the potential of nintendo's new internally developed franchises. something like wii fitness could outsell halo3 and mgs4 combined with ease. we've had 2 years of evidence from ds and wii, to suggest many people love these simple, fun titles regardless of handheld or home console.

this gen has the potential to show the hardcore their tastes are nothing like those of the masses.

 

[Drensch]

The secret is that most people's idea of fun is not counting pixels, but having fun with friends.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I don't do those kinds of threads. Right now, I see the industry at a huge starting line and we are are all waiting for the pistol to fire to get this next-gen fully underway. In my opinion, the Wii is the favorite out of the blocks right now because it is the darling of the media and many gamers, but will it have the legs to win the long race ahead? I just think the Wii's success right now is not written in stone and I am postulating on how all three console makers will try to capture the market for the long haul and who is best prepared to do this on all fronts.

Fair enough.

Tell me then why you believe that the Wii will fail to deliver on the hype and initial sales momentum that it has garnered in all three territories.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

This kind of talk is amazing to me.

Gears, Viva Pinata, Rainbow 6, Crackdown, HD download movies, Live (is a solid service), HD games, Surround, etc.

That's about as good as I've ever seen a system firing on all 8 in such a short period of time.

.

I swear that listmakers are getting worse and worse all the time.

- edit -

Meaning, that things like HD download movies (worthless), and HD games/surround (etc?) don't offer anything really fresh.

Besides, the 360's got many other great games that could've been mentioned instead. I'll give ya Xbox Live though - that's the #1 thing I love about mine.

 

[segasonic]

like EyeToy the Wiimote's novelty will wear off quickly

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Umm, arent the only difference between the PS3's tilt and Wii's Wiimote the fact that the PS3 controller cannot give signals as to distance? If Sony stressed games using the controller I'm sure they could create a similar experience, if not a bit more comfortable because the controller does resemble a real controller.

 

[dark10x]

this gen has the potential to show the hardcore their tastes are nothing like those of the masses.

...but how many games do you actually expect those masses to purchase? I can see many of these casual gamers being happy with just a few games throughout the lifetime of the system. Heck, Wii Sports would probably keep most of them busy for a year.

 

[Draft]

The secret is that most people's idea of fun is not counting pixels, but having fun with friends.

Yes, I feel Microsoft made a serious error when they disabled the X360s ability to have fun with friends.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Yes, I feel Microsoft made a serious error when they disabled the X360s ability to have fun with friends.

I laughed.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Fair enough.

Tell me then why you believe that the Wii will fail to deliver on the hype and initial sales momentum that it has garnered in all three territories.

I don't know, honestly. No one does. I am commenting more on the short-term succes the Wii has experienced in the last few months. Is it sustainable? Sure. But at some point, gamers, new and old, will see or play something that could shift momentum. Could it be on the next Wii or the PS3 or the X360 when their prices reach mainstream prices? Who knows. But I think the Wii has made a great start. Lets see if the freshenss of the experience will compete with what the other console makers have in store.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

like EyeToy the Wiimote's novelty will wear off quickly

I disagree.
Pack-in != optional accessory. Almost every game developed is with the Wiimote in mind.
Besides, there'll be games that don't use the Wiimote at all, or at least no waggle.
Just like the DS not always using touch screen, the wii won't always need the Wiimote's every function.

 

[Pureauthor]

Then why is the X360 losing out to Wii in the area of demand? I agree that the X360 has a lot in place and they, like the Wii, have given us a taste of what is to come, but don't you think the X360 would be the leader right now amongst all gamers if it were truly delivering on all 8 as you say?

Well, because the X360 has made a rather large error - by no means fatal or anywhere close, but an error all the same.

It's been marketed from the getgo as a system for the hardcore. And in terms of software, the system has largely delivered on this front.

Since it's largely a hardcore system, we see a model where sales of software are through the roof, but hardware was largely sluggish.

Frankly, I think as of now this is the best way to go about things for them, at least until they can stop selling hardware at a lost. At the very least, Capcom isn't complaining about shoddy hardware.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

...but how many games do you actually expect those masses to purchase? I can see many of these casual gamers being happy with just a few games throughout the lifetime of the system. Heck, Wii Sports would probably keep most of them busy for a year.

Dark, you WERE around for the PS2, right?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Yes.

Many of my friends who never talk about games talk about the new controls. They don't even care so much about what the big software titles are. Hardcore gamers and people like myself who pay too much attention to gaming news were wrong.

 

[Elios83]

Mass market price + new control system designed to attract the casual market = big early success.
Of course the big challenge for Nintendo comes in the mid-long term when their competitors make their products affordable, even casual gamers will desire better graphics and the novelty effect will fade away as happened with the Eye Toy.
This year will be big for Wii anyway and it's definetly a success for Nintendo's new strategy.

 

[dark10x]

Dark, you WERE around for the PS2, right?

Different audience.

How many stories are we hearing of parents and the rest of the family getting into the Wii? There are people buying and playing the Wii that are far more casual than your average PS2 owner. That IS the new market everyone is talking about. People that could not previous play games are joining in. The people that made GTA3 a success are not of the same group. What we don't know is how much influence they will end up having in the long run.

Many of the people who have purchased a Wii would have done so regardless. They are NOT the "new" audience.

 

[Pureauthor]

Dark, you WERE around for the PS2, right?

Casual masses or nongamer masses?

Regardless, the only precedent we've got thus far (DS) seems to be turning that perception on it's head.

 

[nerbo]

 

[open_mouth_]

Mass market price + new control system designed to attract the casual market = big early success.
Of course the big challenge for Nintendo comes in the mid-long term when their competitors make their products affordable, even casual gamers will desire better graphics and the novelty effect will fade away as happened with the Eye Toy.
This year will be big for Wii anyway and it's definetly a success for Nintendo's new strategy.

before this happens, Nintendo has to make sure they have a large # of must have experiences on the Wii so that even if the novelty wears off a bit, those AAA games and the low price will attract lots of gift givers. For reference, See Nintendo DS.

 

[theBishop]

I honestly think "next-gen" is still in its birthing stage. Gears of War is a taste, Oblivion is a taste. But I don't think our expectations have been shattered yet.

As for the Wii, its easier for Nintendo to get a strong first impression because their interface is so original, and the barrier to entry is low. However, I'm not convinced the Wii is actually "growing the market" (TM). My brother got a Wii for Christmas, and like many of you, I watched my whole family get into it, tennis, bowling, etc. But since Christmas, it hasn't happened again. My brother plays Zelda, and the rest of my family doesn't touch it.

If Nintendo can break the potential non-gamer base, they could have a level of cultural success not seen since pong. But I don't think that is where the industry is going. Most of us talk about videogames as the next important media since film. And the Wii isn't a part of that vision.

Wii's strong point is in activity, not in storytelling. It lacks the hardware to deliver the kind of immersive experience next-gen is only just beginning to fulfill. Once those games start hitting their stride, Wii is going to look incredibly outdated.

Also, Sony's sixaxis controller cannot be overlooked. While its not central to the PS3 in the way Wiimote is central to the Wii, it does have the potential to deliver similar level of interactivity without sacrificing everything else next-gen has to offer (heh, except rumble...). Assuming Lair is a great game in its own right, its use of motion controls could be just as exciting for people who got into Wii Sports, while also providing them the complete next-gen experience.

And i completely agree with you that something unexpected will break next-gen. Often in sales threads people say stuff like "Halo, Final Fantasy and GTA are system sellers". Maybe they forgot that GTA3 was totally unexpected last gen.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I don't know, honestly. No one does. I am commenting more on the short-term succes the Wii has experienced in the last few months. Is it sustainable? Sure. But at some point, gamers, new and old, will see or play something that could shift momentum. Could it be on the next Wii or the PS3 or the X360 when their prices reach mainstream prices? Who knows. But I think the Wii has made a great start. Lets see if the freshenss of the experience will compete with what the other console makers have in store.

While I agree fundamentally, here's my problem with this statement:

PS3 - Price. Best case scenario, I believe it will take Sony at least a year to drop the price once, and how much will that price drop be? $50 dollars? Still a large way away from being mainstream.

As Pureauthor mentioned, the 360 is a hardcore gamers' console. I don't see how this could be disputed; the high software/low hardware attach rates and abject failure of a certain Viva Pinata game denotes that the userbase knows exactly what it wants. Nintendo has proved (with the GameCube) that a niche console doesn't grow the market. MS can buck this trend, but it's going to take some doing, and they've already had a year.

The Wii by definition has both systems beat already by these two points; it has already positioned itself as the next generation mass-market priced console, as is (attempting) to not define itself as a console where you get specific experiences, instead professing to play anything.

There are arguments made by the hardcore of course, namely the graphics debate as well as the Wii being a novelty that will wear off. And while there may be some merit in the latter, the graphics debate is one that's been constantly debunked by history.

The way I see it, the burden of proof is on the PS3 to prove it can usurp the Wii's lead, which so far it has failed to do. The 360 has been crippled by the Asian market, but has positioned itself much better in the long run. Truth be told though I don't see what the 360 has that will garner mainstream appeal, despite the obvious Halo 3.

 

[Slacker]

like EyeToy the Wiimote's novelty will wear off quickly

I disagree there. I think the remote has huge potential compared to the Eye Toy (which I grew tired of within about five minutes). And like Forgotten Ancient mentioned - we're not talking about a LTTP pack-in periph here.

Umm, arent the only difference between the PS3's tilt and Wii's Wiimote the fact that the PS3 controller cannot give signals as to distance? If Sony stressed games using the controller I'm sure they could create a similar experience, if not a bit more comfortable because the controller does resemble a real controller.

You'd be more comfortable swinging a Sixaxis™ around like a tennis racket (for example) than a Wii remote? I don't see how they could create anything resembling a Wii-like experience.

As for the Wii in general, I bought one for a few reasons.

- I wanted to catch up on SNES/N64/GC games (I haven't had a Nintendo console for years and years)
- I play a LOT of games with groups of people
- I love my DS

If the Nintendo DS never existed, I think I would have been much more hesitant about purchasing a Wii. But the DS proved in my mind that Nintendo can take an original (and bizarre sounding) idea and make it work. Enough so I ended up trading in my underused PSP to get one.

I have every confidence that the Wii experience will just get better and better, like it's little cousin the DS did.

 

[duderon]

I wonder when GAF will realize that the "novelty" will not "wear off" until this generation is over. That is until Nintendo decides to release their next console. The Wii is here to stay. It's not going to drop off the face of the Earth after 2007.

 

[ksamedi]

I think its the NES al over again, simple games with exciting gameplay. I think the Wii will follow that path, games will slowly become more complex and in the end reach the status of Super Mario 3. I think even non-gamers will play more complex games if they are slowly brought into it.

 

[Drensch]

Wii's strong point is in activity, not in storytelling. It lacks the hardware to deliver the kind of immersive experience next-gen is only just beginning to fulfill.

1. Games are not a narrative media
2. WTF?