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Is "freshness" the secret to Wii's success?
- Thread starter DenogginizerOS
- Start date
Christopher
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Right Wii will see strong third party support because it's getting all those PS2 - PSP ports your talking about.
Pureauthor
Member
Big-E said:
Then they can end up missing the ball, and they can explain to investors why they threw away easy money.
Unless, of course, the race ends up close enough that it makes little difference.
dark10x said:
3rd parties are having great success on the DS. DS games do not need to sell the number of units as a console game to turn a profit. They are developed by small teams, in a short time frame, and many times reuse the same assets. Where are people getting that 3rd parties aren't doing well on the DS?
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The top selling console this past holiday was the PS2. The number one brand is Playstation. Of the 100 million+ PS2 owners in the world, a very, very small percentage of those own a Wii, X360, or even a PS3. Now, if the Wii is going to get a bunch of PS2 ports, I seriously doubt the 100+ million Playstation 2 owners are going to run out and buy the ported game just to use the Wii-mote. And I seriously doubt the Wii is going to add 100+ million new gamers to the world. I would argue that the majority of current gamers (PS2 owners being the largest percentage) are going to invest in new and fresh experiences that go beyond just a new interface. Wii may sell a lot more systems than Gamecube did to these folks, but at the end of the day, the Wii will need more than Nintendo's first party development to seduce PS2 owners into buying a Wii to play a PS2 game with waggle.
Pureauthor
Member
dark10x said:
3rd parties do not (and should not) come in with expectations of beating another company in sales. They should come in with the intent of maximising your own sales and thus your profit. Whether or not you end up beating another company in sales is ancillary to that.
(And can you name me a single 3rd party that has met undeserved failure on the NDS?)
Dragona Akehi
Retired
-jinx- said:
Shhh! You're supposed to wait till the thread hits five pages and then just bring in the Silent Banstick! You're gonna scare them all away!
My mother loves Ms. Pac-Man. I've never seen her play another video game in her life (besides something like solitaire or a casino game), but she'll pop a quarter in a Ms. Pac-Man machine if she sees one somewhere. My Dad played arcade games and he actually beat Metroid, Zelda, and Dragon Warrior on the NES. Two of my uncles owned NES despite not having children yet, but they owned several games for the systems like Top Gun and NES Open Golf. All of them are now over 50 and lapsed gamers, but they'll pick up and play something like Wii Sports or Guitar Hero.
It's basically a return to the old arcade ethos in a lot of ways. I see no reason why creating easily accessible games isn't going to continue to be a winner for Nintendo.
segasonic said:
:lol you don't have any idea what you're talking about
The Eye Toy has a tiny fraction of the functionality and wait for it, FUN, that is presented with the Wiimote. It also allows for regular controlling titles and the tech behind it is much more sound. Also, Nintendo is making games for it. That alone, allows it to rise above something as innovative and decidely average as the Eye Toy.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Dragona Akehi said:
I think you just did.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
DenogginizerOS said:
You know, eventually they will run out of ps2 games to port.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Pureauthor said:
Can we extend that to the 'cube, since it is in the same boat, at least when it comes to how Nintendo supports 3rd party developers?
The game that always pops into my head is Eternal Darkness. That game should have sold a lot more than it did and the only reason I can think that it didn't was that it didn't get adequate promotion from the big N.
Oops, nevermind, SK was a 2nd party developer for Nintendo at the time, not 3rd party.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Mrbob said:
You got me there. Good point.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Doc Holliday said:
Agreed. So, besides Nintendo, what other developers will continue to support Wii and more importantly, what will they support Wii with? Most agree that the assets used by third parties right now are PS2 and Gamecube assets. How will these assets continue to provide new and fresh experiences outside the realm of being a PS2 game? At some point a wall will be reached, and Nintendo will have to upgrade the hardware to take advantage of the assets third party developers are using for X360 and PS3 right now so that they can get a return on the investment, especially if Wii sales cut into the PS3 and X360 third-party sales of games using these new assets.
Woo-Fu said:Can we extend that to the 'cube, since it is in the same boat, at least when it comes to how Nintendo supports 3rd party developers?
The game that always pops into my head is Eternal Darkness. That game should have sold a lot more than it did and the only reason I can think that it didn't was that it didn't get adequate promotion from the big N.
Oops, nevermind, SK was a 2nd party developer for Nintendo at the time, not 3rd party.
The GC is definitely not in the same boat. It's in a boat that sailed off into the Bermuda Triangle about a year ago.
mentalfloss
Banned
Big-E said:
According to Reggie, they already have...
Reggie said:
I'm not saying they have the best support, but it's already much better than GC or N64 ever was.
He Wants Chalupas
Banned
This is the correct response to the OP.nerbo said:
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
He Wants Chalupas said:
Thank you for that thoughtful and helpful contribution to the discussion.
Mrbob said:
PS2 kept alive with shitty western games? The A teams have already moved on. With the exception of a few releases it will be the the newer PS2 users buying already released software. And there's no doubt Wii will get its share of legacy games being released on the PS2 for cheap, but its more a function of the PS2 having such a huge installed base that it will hang on for another year or so. The same thing happened to previous dominant consoles.
Big-E said:
THQ says otherwise. I'll take their word over yours.
But to the OP, the 'Wii difference' is that the Wii is competing against disinterest. Disinterest still holds the vast amount of marketshare. Until consoles break into 51% of households, disinterest wins every generation. The reason behind the explosive sales behind the DS and Wii is because Nintendo is aiming at 'the big picture': pushing back the barriers of disinterest. This is why the DS and Wii, when everyone thinks they are at their 'peak' and are set to come down, keep going up. By fighting disinterest, Nintendo is generating new demand. Consistant sell-outs are a symptom of a growing market. The NES never sold OMG numbers. It kept selling out consistantly, Nintendo would ramp up production, and all of that would sell out. When you successfully grow the market, you successfully grow the demand.
Meanwhile, the Blue Ocean Strategy guys congratulate Nintendo's successful implementation of their strategy.
Newzboyz99
Losers! My wife has me on lock!
I'm always amazed how wrong some of you guys are; though at least your consistant. Nintendo is doomed? WTF? Nintendo is in the driver's seat right now. Less than a year ago developers didn't even know what the hell Nintendo was doing, including Factor 5, a company that co-developed GCN. Since that time Nintendo is closing on becoming the market leader and developers are just now starting to flock to the system. Similar thing happened with the DS...blah, blah, blah.
Nintendo will be successful no matter what this generation because 1) they are different 2) price leader; they will always be in a fantastic price war position 3) developers will be forced to follow as it continues to succeed.
Just wait for future software to come out and this thread will look incredibly stupid, especially when Nintendo comes out with some really amazing and innovative stuff...which will happen.
Nintendo will be successful no matter what this generation because 1) they are different 2) price leader; they will always be in a fantastic price war position 3) developers will be forced to follow as it continues to succeed.
Just wait for future software to come out and this thread will look incredibly stupid, especially when Nintendo comes out with some really amazing and innovative stuff...which will happen.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Newzboyz99 said:
I don't see people saying Nintendo is doomed. I think a lot of people, including myself, have said Nintendo is in the best position right now. The question I am asking is how long is this sustainable. Now, you say that future software will make this thread stupid, but I think that is a bit off the mark. What it will do is answer the questions we have been raising. I think Nintendo will carve out a very nice market, out of the disinterested population as someone put it earlier, and I think PS3 and X360 will battle for the hardcore and the late adopters. If Wii is the number one selling console five years from now and wins this generation, I will be a little surprised, but I am sure it will be well deserved. And as a gamer, this gives me little worry.
cank stoochie
Banned
i'm forcing myself to love the wii because the way things are going i dont think i can stomach 4 or 5 years of bitterness :lol , it looks like its going to win so yeah haters have no choice really
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Newzboyz99 said:
segasonic said:
Mario Galaxy and SSBB will make sure that it at least matches up with the GC.
Also, I'd like to point out to all the people that mention PS3 will conquer all once it gets a price drop in 2 or whatever years. That would be nice to believe if it weren't for the fact that publishers aren't going to wait that long to see sales take off. They'll support the most popular platform at the present.
Newzboyz99
Losers! My wife has me on lock!
I'd also like to point out that every price cut Sony/MS does Nintendo can if they want (depending on how their selling) match or exceed.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Newzboyz99 said:
I think Nintendo has said they aren't competing with Sony and MS as far as their strategy is concerned (and vice versa) so I doubt they will respond to price drops from X360 or PS3..
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I love how it's either, "The Wii is going to completely fail", or "The Wii is the spiritual successor to the PS2".
It could be anywhere between those two extremes...and it's too early to say either way.
It could be anywhere between those two extremes...and it's too early to say either way.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Oblivion said:Nintendo also said they weren't competing with the PSP. (well, they're not anymore, obviously, but that's for a different reason
I'm sure Nintendo would like something similar to happen in the console race, but I doubt the Wii will ever completely replace and/or push traditional consoles out of the market.
Moderation Unlimited
Banned
Sure for the common folk the wii is a new experience...but for internet nerds and the like like us--I think it's going to take a whole lot more convincing.
I played the Xavix version of tennis, bowling, fishing, and baseball, and I can't say it was much different from Wii sports. To tell you the truth, it was almost identical, albeit with worse graphics. And 90 - 95% of the annecdotal reports of people's families being enamored with this freshness comes in the form of them picking up and playing Wii sports. Sure, those type of experiences seem to map well physically with the controller motions because they are physically natured games, but what happens when motions on-screen don't practically map with the physical controls that you have to input on the Wii-mote end? I don't think it will be anymore intuitive or familiar at that point than using an ordinary controller. At that point, the motion you'd be using would be just as much a broken, confusing metaphor as a color-coated button with a letter or shape on it, except with a less efficient keystroke. So far my favorite part about the Wii is the sense of nestalgia it conjurs up, when games were more innocent, less violent, and more based on imaginitive fantasy themes.
All that being said, I'm still not 100 % impressed with the motion controls as of yet. My other gripe (besides metaphor for use) is performance. They seem to be laggy, which sucks.
I'd really like to see a game where the controller brings you in in a whole new way...where it feels natural, yet it doesn't feel like playing the same game in a different way; rather, it feels like playing a brand new game in a brand new way.
I played the Xavix version of tennis, bowling, fishing, and baseball, and I can't say it was much different from Wii sports. To tell you the truth, it was almost identical, albeit with worse graphics. And 90 - 95% of the annecdotal reports of people's families being enamored with this freshness comes in the form of them picking up and playing Wii sports. Sure, those type of experiences seem to map well physically with the controller motions because they are physically natured games, but what happens when motions on-screen don't practically map with the physical controls that you have to input on the Wii-mote end? I don't think it will be anymore intuitive or familiar at that point than using an ordinary controller. At that point, the motion you'd be using would be just as much a broken, confusing metaphor as a color-coated button with a letter or shape on it, except with a less efficient keystroke. So far my favorite part about the Wii is the sense of nestalgia it conjurs up, when games were more innocent, less violent, and more based on imaginitive fantasy themes.
All that being said, I'm still not 100 % impressed with the motion controls as of yet. My other gripe (besides metaphor for use) is performance. They seem to be laggy, which sucks.
I'd really like to see a game where the controller brings you in in a whole new way...where it feels natural, yet it doesn't feel like playing the same game in a different way; rather, it feels like playing a brand new game in a brand new way.
Oblivion said:
I don't think Mario Galaxy or SSBB (especially SSBB) really appeals any more to the masses than Mario Sunshine or Mario 64 before that. Besides number of consoles sold thie early in it's lifecycle, I'm hard pressed to find any evidence of how Nintendo is doing anything different than they did with the GCN. It's still going to be Mario/Metroid/Zelda every 6-9 months, only now were are treated to a plethora of mini-games in the interim.
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
chriskzoo said:
You're hard pressed to find them doing anything different, except now we're getting a ton of mini games as well? And when you say mini-games, I imagine you're talking about the million-sellers like WiiPlay, WiiSports, and the like, correct?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I'm not on board with the whole Wii hype train, to be honest. I know it's a controversial thing to say. I might as well be saying "Video games suck and I am an adamant supporter of Jack Thompson and his policies!" for all most people on this board care. Maybe I'm just different. Maybe, maybe not. But all I've seen is that there were these huge expectations before the Wii's launch, and now all anybody's doing is pretending they're happy with the outcome.
I don't even have a Wii, but I've played enough of it. All my gamer friends are far more excited about upcoming 360 games than anything the Wii has to offer. For like 2 weeks after November 19, everyone was saying, "Oh yeah! Can't wait to go home and play some Wii Sports/Zelda!" at my school. Now, not a person talks about it.
I hate to say it, but I honestly do see the Wii as a novelty item. I can imagine the responses I'll get now, "If it's such a novelty, why are they getting bought up so quickly?!?!" and the like. I don't really have an answer for that but my personal experience speaks a lot more powerfully for me than some sales data.
EDIT:
Are you trying to make a point here? Because I'm missing it if you are. If I'm understanding correctly, you're disputing that the Wii will be inundated with mini games. Yet you cite "million sellers" like WiiPlay and Wii Sports, which are the very definition of mini games, as evidence otherwise?
I don't even have a Wii, but I've played enough of it. All my gamer friends are far more excited about upcoming 360 games than anything the Wii has to offer. For like 2 weeks after November 19, everyone was saying, "Oh yeah! Can't wait to go home and play some Wii Sports/Zelda!" at my school. Now, not a person talks about it.
I hate to say it, but I honestly do see the Wii as a novelty item. I can imagine the responses I'll get now, "If it's such a novelty, why are they getting bought up so quickly?!?!" and the like. I don't really have an answer for that but my personal experience speaks a lot more powerfully for me than some sales data.
EDIT:
Are you trying to make a point here? Because I'm missing it if you are. If I'm understanding correctly, you're disputing that the Wii will be inundated with mini games. Yet you cite "million sellers" like WiiPlay and Wii Sports, which are the very definition of mini games, as evidence otherwise?
Forgotten Ancient said:
And Rayman, Elebits, WarioWare, Mario Party 8 etc.
I'm not saying that they are not selling better - but it's hardly full of the 3rd party support they promised or even the regular release of Nintendo titles Reggie touted. That being said, they were genius to go a different route than the 360/PS3. It has certainly garnered a lot of attention and now we'll just see if it can maintain that momentum.
These are pretty much my sentiments as well - though I'll eventually pick one up. The demand is created by 2 things - the novelty and the price. It's the perfect "alternate" system, which will be proven by the total consoles sold this generation likely being more than the last generation (i.e. more multi-console owners.)
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
Emerson said:
No, I'm using those games as examples of what Nintendo is doing differently from the Gamecube. It sounded like he was shrugging off the very thing that is making the Wii popular right now while stating that Nintendo was maintaining their status quo.
Whether you like the "minigames" or not is inconsequential to what Nintendo is doing. They're securing a large fanbase early and they still haven't released their traditional, Wii only heavy hitters like Mario, Smash Bros., etc.
Aside from the name Nintendo, I see very few parallels to the Gamecube.
- edit -
Rumblings of a few third parties creating Wii-centric development teams is also a stark contrast to what we got from Nintendo in the previous generation. The 360 and PS3 are gonna get theirs, but 3rd parties are paying close attention to Nintendo again.
It may just be an exception for now, but I expect Dragon Quest Swords to make some waves for other third parties to ride on.
Just too early to tell...but to say Nintendo isn't doing anything different is just plain silly.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
It's about as logical as folks using a few months worth of launch-window sales to confidently predict the course of an entire generation.Jokeropia said:
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