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Is "freshness" the secret to Wii's success?
- Thread starter DenogginizerOS
- Start date
Woo-Fu
Banned
Link said:
Go ahead and burn away. You guys don't get it. I'm just telling you what I see. I don't see these people buying a lot of games. End of story.
Maybe where you live grandmas are lining up to buy zelda and red steel, they're not doing it in my neck of the woods.
The Wii is not the DS. The console market is not the handheld market. I can't put it any simpler than that. If you believe the two markets are the same, then there isn't much left to discuss.
I will ask you if you can say with a straight face that introducing a new control scheme to a market you own is exactly the same as introducing a new control scheme to a market you had a cage match with MS over last place for last generation?
I really don't know what the point of arguing about it is anyways. I don't see non-gamers buying a lot of software, you do, end of story.
TigersFan said:
Maybe it will. But for your average 3rd/1st person free-camera 3d game, I find the Wii control setup to be far more complicated than the 360 or PS3.
Nintendo has always said their goal with the Wii was to overcome the intimidating controls that have kept certain people from playing games. The remote is a brilliant piece of engineering in that direction. But the tethered nunchuck blows it out of the water. I couldn't have imagined a more intimidating-looking contraption for controlling a video game.
Get your facts straight. DS has a distinctly better tie-ratio than the GBA had at this point and obviously way better than PSP.Woo-Fu said:
And I'm looking at the facts which say Wii has almost twice the tie ratio of PS3.Woo-Fu said:
Your entire post is based on anecdotal evidence which obviously means nothing when it conflicts with the facts.
i think that for games like tennis, golf, baseball, basically any sports game where the real-life physical motion can be approximated with the use of the wiimote, the Wii will be great and move a good number of units. The controller adds a lot to the experience. But for more traditional games, I think the Wii will fizzle here in this department. And ultimately, it will be what brings the Wii back down to earth. Sure, everyone is loving the "fresh" and "innovative" controls of wiisports, but what's going to happen when Wii owners get tired of wiisports-like games and want to play something like Halo or Metal Gear or Gears of War? Nintendo won't have an answer for that. So, I think things will eventually settle down to where they were last gen. The Mario/Metroid/Zelda fans will be clamoring for all things wii and the casual gamers that got hooked on wiisports and havent by then tired of it will push it along, but I think that they will still settle for 3rd behind ps3/xbox360. Much like last gen, although the numbers will be a LOT closer.
tekneek2k6
Member
Flo_Evans said:
The casual/non-gamers can help the system attract more 3rd party developers sheerly by increasing the install base of the system. This will help the Wii have a diverse selection of games.
Link
The Autumn Wind
You're the one that mentioned DS game sales as a precedent for Wii game sales.Woo-Fu said:
It seems to be working pretty well for them so far.
Again, looking at DS software sales, yes, I do. Even ignoring that, looking at the sales of Wii Sports in Japan and the hype it has caused over here, again, yes, I do.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Woo-Fu said:
I think you're missing the point.
The whole point of the Wii is to turn non-gamers INTO gamers. Gamers will then buy software.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Woo-Fu said:
Wait you tell me use numbers, when I get numbers proving me right you rely on what youre seeing at local game shops...wtf!? So far Wii is selling pretty well. So where are you getting the fact that Nintendo can't replicate what it did with the DS?
fresquito said:
Bingo.
The Wii is a gaming system only, not a multifunction device like the other two systems. People are buying the PS3 for the promise of games to come and Blu-Ray movies. The X360 is selling because of the awesome online experience and games and it's expanding to include movie and tv download service. The Wii is selling for the games only.
Myself, I like the Wii, but I don't know if I adore it yet. It's fun, to be sure, but it still is in the launch period, so I'll reserve judgement for when the games start flowing consistently.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Woo-Fu said:
Dude it was an obvious joke......thats why it was funny when you said the Ps2 had plenty of 50 million sellers
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Mrbob said:
Worked for the GameCube.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Woo-Fu said:
Can I give you a little hint ? You're new and you don't know the GAF yet. Ignore provocations, or you'll be banned very soon......
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Mrbob said:
Yeah, gamers really care about that. Dreamcast was ahead of it's time too. I didn't see any grassroots campaign to adopt the system after support dried up in favour of the PS2.
Enron said:
The mainstream market (ie. non/lapsed gamers and Wii's biggest target audience) are going to care about Metal Gear and GoW? Yeah, just like they did in the past amirite? Nintendo will have an answer for these people, and it's more games in the vein of Wii Sports (ie. Wii Music, Wii Fitness etc.). For the core and hardcore groups they'd better also keep releasing traditional Nintendo titles and give third parties a go too.
Not completely true. Otherwise you'll have to explain features like the News Channel, Voting Channel (what's the English name for it anyway?), Weather Channel and message board to me. The Wii IS more than just a gaming system, only in a different light. It has additional features other than multimedia.
If anything, the X360 is still the most traditional gaming system of all three (and I like it for that).
No, but it will not matter in the long run seeing as how Nintendo tries to attract other groups besides the traditional group of gamers. It's dellusional to think that core and hardcore gamers are the de facto audience of the Wii.
DeaconKnowledge said:
Depends on what you want to categorize the PS3 as. I wouldn't consider the PS3 a pure games machine. It is the first real multimedia convergence device, which also plays games. Whether it works out in the long run, I don't know. But I would argue that the success of the PS3 has nothing to do with what Nintendo and MS accomplish. It depends on Blu Ray becoming the dominant force for HD movies. Of course games is part of the equation, otherwise the system wouldn't play them. But it isn't the only driving force.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Big-E said:
Not really.
Was GameCube the jump over PS2 that the PS3 is over the Wii? Of course not.
But I ask you, why would gamers that have (hypothetically) anointed the Wii as market leader abandon it mid-race for the PS3? That argument completely ignores third party trends.
Look at the DS and PSP. The DS claims to bring in new gamers. Why then have the new gamers not adopted the PSP? It is the superior system graphically.
Confidence Man said:
I think this is true. The wii is seen as new and exciting technology but still family friendly priced. What happens in 2-3 years when the PS3 is $300, 360 is $200 and wii is $150 though? Some of the wii non-gamer converts might be ready for a more 'hardcore' machine. They might want to actaully experience an online game or take advantage of their new TV.
As for games only.. WTF are these photo news and weather channels then?! Being games only really didn't help out the cube. People like multifunction devices. Puting a memory card in the slot and being able to see pictures on the TV is like magic to non-technical people.
Well, can't really say as these games aren't out yet. Will the wiimote controls make you forget about the non HD graphics? It all depends on the talent of developers. The potential is there, certainly.Enron said:
Besides some gamers will have a wii and a next gen console. And some gamers will only have a wii. So there's a market for these games on wii too.
Either that or pricing are pretty much the only reasons to explain Wii's success thus far. The "freshness" is almost a default factor because, unlike the DS, which is anchored by hordes of superb traditional games among everything else--one could easily construct a great DS library and never use the touch screen (though one would be stupidly missing out on Elite Beat Agents)--basically everything on Wii so far has been catered to the controller. Except, perhaps, for people like me who have twelve Virtual Console games and one PS2 port, you won't find people who are buying a Wii to support their traditionalist values.DenogginizerOS said:
If they did, it'd be too late and divide their users into the categories of those who had the motion control and those who didn't--which would then fracture game developers, some of the mindset that they should focus only on the control style every 360/PS3 owner has, and others of the mindset that they should use the extra resources to create both control styles.
Assuming that I give you the premise that freshness is what drives a system to be "must-have," then yes, a game we aren't expecting is the answer. There's a difference between fresh and high-quality; Halo 3, MGS4, FFXIII, etc. may each end up being high-quality (and, for Wii, Super Mario Galaxy, etc.), but fresh? Doubtful. At the least, not fresh to those who have played their predecessors. It's usually the new franchises that come out of nowhere that show the most stunning success, relative to franchises that existed before--Pokemon, 3D GTA, Halo 1 (outside Japan), Brain Training (inside Japan).
marc^o^ said:
Not entirely related, but I wonder: out of the population that owns a console, what percentage of those folks own more than ONE console from the same generation? I remember back when i was a kid, you either had a nintendo or you had a sega. No one had both. When i was in college, you either had a PS or a Nintendo64. Never both.
speculawyer
Member
Sometimes I have that 'not so fresh' feeling? What should I do?
civilstrife
Member
Wii is experiencing a post-launch drought.
This is an entirely new phenomenon in the gaming industry.
Also, Nintendo is doomed.
This is an entirely new phenomenon in the gaming industry.
Also, Nintendo is doomed.
All I can say is that I totally missed this thread because I've been playing EXCITE TRUCK for a couple of hours, of which some were versus my dad. He really liked it, and even better, I absolutely enjoy tilting the controller left and right, while making these enormous jumps.
If Nintendo just keeps those games (Metroid, Mario, etc) and non-games (sports, music, health, etc) coming, they're going to be just fine.
If Nintendo just keeps those games (Metroid, Mario, etc) and non-games (sports, music, health, etc) coming, they're going to be just fine.
DeaconKnowledge said:
Third parties haven't really embraced the DS to its full extent. 3rd party software sales are better for the PSP then the DS. As the old adage goes, Nintendo is your biggest competitor on a Nintendo system. It will be interesting to see if 3rd party developers are going to enjoy success on the Wii.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Big-E said:
Many PSP third party titles use PS2 resources to make games. The PS3 will not have the same luxury.
Also, $600.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Big-E said:
That comment was misread.
It isn't multiple 50 million sellers, it is 50 individual titles that sold a million plus. I never said that about the PS2 in the first place, but that is beside the point. I said it had plenty of million+ sellers, and I seem to recall that being a true statement.
They're not my numbers...
DeaconKnowledge said:
Isn't this what we are seing with the Wii already though? We already have a PSP and Wii PoP and there have been anouncements of PS2/Wii titles in development. The PSP may have better third party sales because of the closeness to PS2 projects but I don't think the Wii is going to have a healthy third party area if it adapts a lot of these type of projects.
Enron said:
No, and I said so already. But what part of 'biggest target audience' didn't you understand? I mean, that group of non-gamers is most probably Nintendo's most important audience and one they want to keep. Sure, the core and hardcore gamers are quite important too, but Nintendo still has their more traditional licenses for those people. Then there is third-party which might concentrate more on Wii depending on how succesful the console becomes and how third party games sell on the platform.
Still, I do believe that the Wii will never be a main platform for more traditional gaming in the Gears of War-sense so to speak. People should get either a X360 or PS3 for that.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Big-E said:
You're not getting it.
Under the hypothetical "Wii is the market leader" argument, there is not much incentive for 3rd parties to develop for the PS3 because they have to build tools and engines from scratch, whereas on the Wii they can re-use resources made for the Wii and transferred from the PS2.
This is why despite the DS' success the PSP still sees healthy (but declining) 3rd party development; devs can just transfer PS2 resources. That won't be a viable option for the PS3.
Jokeropia said:
It's not just that. He also seems to forget how much longer the PS2 is on the market compared to the DS and also how much bigger it's userbase is.
So yeah, it's not a very valid argument he's making. At the least, it's rather baseless. Anecdotal evidence isn't much, especially when it gets debunked by actual figures.
Now that's some serious hyperbole right there! :lol This scenario will never happen, not in more than one territory at least (Japan might be possible). You can quote me on that later.