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Is Halo dying?
- Thread starter Knocks
- Start date
RealDeadOne
Member
Halo is my second favorite franchise ever, after Metroid. Before Halo 4, I had read every book, completed every game on Legendary, played hundreds of hours of multiplayer and spent just as many hours playing and replaying the single player options.
I did not hate Halo 4, quite the contrary, I thought it was an excellent game. But it's clear by now that it just doesn't have the same staying power as previous games. While Reach changed the gameplay for the worse in my opinion, the core of what makes Halo what it is was still present. For 4, 343i messed with that core and turned it into something new, but that new thing is just not as good as the old Halo, and it's not even as good as the CoD4 formula it took influence from.
For the first time since Halo 2 released, I'm not playing Halo multiplayer anymore. It was fun while it lasted, but it just didn't keep me enticed like Halo used to. In addition, I didn't keep up with Spartan Ops because it was not fun or interesting at all, I stopped reading the books because they started to suck even for video game novels, and I basically stopped following Halo altogether, all because that multiplayer experience wasn't keeping me locked in the fiction like it did before.
So yes, I do think Halo is dying in the hands of 343i so far, in terms gameplay, fiction, and possibly even sales eventually if the huge dropoff of players is anything to go by. But I do have hope that Halo 5 will turn it all around and get me back in the game. If I hear good things about it, it'll be the only thing that can get me to buy an Xbox One.
I did not hate Halo 4, quite the contrary, I thought it was an excellent game. But it's clear by now that it just doesn't have the same staying power as previous games. While Reach changed the gameplay for the worse in my opinion, the core of what makes Halo what it is was still present. For 4, 343i messed with that core and turned it into something new, but that new thing is just not as good as the old Halo, and it's not even as good as the CoD4 formula it took influence from.
For the first time since Halo 2 released, I'm not playing Halo multiplayer anymore. It was fun while it lasted, but it just didn't keep me enticed like Halo used to. In addition, I didn't keep up with Spartan Ops because it was not fun or interesting at all, I stopped reading the books because they started to suck even for video game novels, and I basically stopped following Halo altogether, all because that multiplayer experience wasn't keeping me locked in the fiction like it did before.
So yes, I do think Halo is dying in the hands of 343i so far, in terms gameplay, fiction, and possibly even sales eventually if the huge dropoff of players is anything to go by. But I do have hope that Halo 5 will turn it all around and get me back in the game. If I hear good things about it, it'll be the only thing that can get me to buy an Xbox One.
Spartan Ops was an intriguing idea and well executed in the last few chapters but the first half season was awful. I was playing primarily for the cutscenes. There have been rumors of Halo going episodic and I think that would be a great way to keep the juice flowing in the Halo franchise.
Imagine this, launch Halo for xbox one with the complete multiplayer suite and the first part of an episodic story. Continue offering map packs and new episodes of the episodic story on a semi regular basis (maybe 3 or 6 months?). Also, tie in the Halo TV series with the initial purchase. Essentially make Halo for Xbox One the platform for all things Halo.
Imagine this, launch Halo for xbox one with the complete multiplayer suite and the first part of an episodic story. Continue offering map packs and new episodes of the episodic story on a semi regular basis (maybe 3 or 6 months?). Also, tie in the Halo TV series with the initial purchase. Essentially make Halo for Xbox One the platform for all things Halo.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
343 gets most of the blame but really Bungie started this. AA's, Sprint, DMR, Bloom. The baffling thing is why 343 would take every single unpopular decision and buildHalo 4 around it. They must have gambled that the new people they would pick up would outweigh the people they lost.
This, the competitive community is what keeps the game going. Remember in the Halo 3 days when random people would do customs with you just to help you out? Now you cant even find people on mics.
All of the MP stuff can be put in some kind of fiesta type of playlist. The next Halo has to be built around an equal footing ranked playlist. People need to shell out $500 for the next Halo, its got to be stellar.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Part of halo's problem IMO is the bloated playlist. In this day and age I can't see a game without sprint. That said, the sheer amount of escape shit built around armor abilities is annoying.
Sprint works in low TTK games because because of exactly that. The low time to kill. Sprint and escape mechanics shouldn't exist in halo. Paying attention to he map and your positioning in that map are what should keep you alive.
Sprint works in low TTK games because because of exactly that. The low time to kill. Sprint and escape mechanics shouldn't exist in halo. Paying attention to he map and your positioning in that map are what should keep you alive.
HiredN00bs
Member
PM me about what you're smoking.
Halo 4 is a patchwork mess. The only polish I would attribute to it is on the shoes of the execs who ravaged this franchise.
SPACECADET
Member
i really enjoyed halo 4, single and multi, but the population diminishing so quickly with the game definitely took some wind out of the franchises sails.
i think halo 5 could be a big chance for it though, new console, make it real purdy. win people back.
as of now though, halo is dead to me seeing as i have nothing to play it on anymore.
i think halo 5 could be a big chance for it though, new console, make it real purdy. win people back.
as of now though, halo is dead to me seeing as i have nothing to play it on anymore.
No, Halo isn't dying. Halo 4 sold a ton of units.
When Halo 3 released, it was THE console multiplayer game. Now, the accumulated competition has worn down Halo a bit. When Halo games release (I'm talking Reach and Halo 4), they still sell like crazy, they just don't have the sticking power Halo 2 and Halo 3 had. And you see that on the charts in this thread showing weekly XBL users.
When Halo 3 released, it was THE console multiplayer game. Now, the accumulated competition has worn down Halo a bit. When Halo games release (I'm talking Reach and Halo 4), they still sell like crazy, they just don't have the sticking power Halo 2 and Halo 3 had. And you see that on the charts in this thread showing weekly XBL users.
Matt2thefuture
Member
I would say yes and no. No the last game sold well, but Yes people dropped playing multi-player so quick.
I think 343 made some mistakes with multi-player but overall they did a great job there first real game out. It felt like It could have been the direction Halo was going.
(my personal non proven theory) Sadly, I think cod and military shooters have taken over sci-fi aesthetics. Halo was made by geeks who love sci-fi but multiplayer took off in Halo 2 when it was proven consoles could do online multiplayer confidentily. It was an entry point for most to get into that competitive multi-player. and it became a broader thing about people shooting other people a competitive thing (some college bros didn't even play the campaigns) once cod came into play all of the bros and military type guys or just people who just played for the multi, move from halo (which was never their taste) to COD a military realistic shooter (which is what they wanted) so now their not going back.
I think that's a part of it but not the whole thing, I think 4 tried to be closer to cod and alienated its core as well. Load outs are terrible, and they should have at leasts offered a clasic mode, Neither side was happy.
I think 343 made some mistakes with multi-player but overall they did a great job there first real game out. It felt like It could have been the direction Halo was going.
(my personal non proven theory) Sadly, I think cod and military shooters have taken over sci-fi aesthetics. Halo was made by geeks who love sci-fi but multiplayer took off in Halo 2 when it was proven consoles could do online multiplayer confidentily. It was an entry point for most to get into that competitive multi-player. and it became a broader thing about people shooting other people a competitive thing (some college bros didn't even play the campaigns) once cod came into play all of the bros and military type guys or just people who just played for the multi, move from halo (which was never their taste) to COD a military realistic shooter (which is what they wanted) so now their not going back.
I think that's a part of it but not the whole thing, I think 4 tried to be closer to cod and alienated its core as well. Load outs are terrible, and they should have at leasts offered a clasic mode, Neither side was happy.
TheOctodad
Member
I don't understand some of these responses. A lot of people are saying "it's not dying it's just becoming less popular and not as influential."
Isn't that, kind of just rephrasing "dying?"
Isn't that, kind of just rephrasing "dying?"
Halo 4 was an interesting experiment, trying to recapture the success of previous halo games with a brand new studio and staff. Usually doing that sort of thing tends to crash a franchise hard. Recall the PSone days when 989 studios took over for singletrac on the twisted metal games and later on when Pacific coat power and light took over for singletrac with Jet Moto 3. It was like the soul was gone.
343i has actually did manage to make a good halo game, it's just that it came out after Halo 3 and Halo Reach which were better halo games. Everything about 4 felt like a greatest hits sequence for the campaign and the multiplayer just wasn't as fun as it was in previous installments. This was fine by me because at least it showed that yeah, this new studio is capable of making the same thing bungie has already done but well, when a series has been around for over 5 installments and longer then a decade you start to want more than that.
Is Halo dying? I don't think so, I'll give 343i the benefit of the doubt and assume that Halo 5 can be something better than any previous game, they got the regurgitation out of their system now so they don't have much choice. The bigger threat to the series future is that bungie is also making a new game that actually does look like something far better than halo in the form of destiny. Xbox 360 owners from 2005-2008 have also started jumping ship to Playstation 4 which means a smaller audience on xbox one to play Halo 5.
Basically, ask this question 6 months after Halo 5 comes out.
343i has actually did manage to make a good halo game, it's just that it came out after Halo 3 and Halo Reach which were better halo games. Everything about 4 felt like a greatest hits sequence for the campaign and the multiplayer just wasn't as fun as it was in previous installments. This was fine by me because at least it showed that yeah, this new studio is capable of making the same thing bungie has already done but well, when a series has been around for over 5 installments and longer then a decade you start to want more than that.
Is Halo dying? I don't think so, I'll give 343i the benefit of the doubt and assume that Halo 5 can be something better than any previous game, they got the regurgitation out of their system now so they don't have much choice. The bigger threat to the series future is that bungie is also making a new game that actually does look like something far better than halo in the form of destiny. Xbox 360 owners from 2005-2008 have also started jumping ship to Playstation 4 which means a smaller audience on xbox one to play Halo 5.
Basically, ask this question 6 months after Halo 5 comes out.
King Beyond the wall
Member
I think most halo fans, including myself, have left after halo 4, and I think the franchise is definitely on the decline. Here is a response I made in a similar threat a couple of months ago about why I think most halo fans don't like halo 4
i HeaR MusiC
Member
Quality of the series is getting worse but it's definitely not dying.
That would depend on the respective series.
I haven't enjoyed a Halo game since 2. I thought Halo 4 was the best one since 2, multiplayer wise though. It definitely still has some glaring problems. I can't stand the jetpack or the way they have camo as an ability now. The jetpack completely ruins the flow of maps and camo is abused by players. There's a reason the overshield is still a pickup (technically) and not an ability. The same should go for camo. The biggest problem of all though is the maps. A MP game won't survive without good maps, and a good number of them. Not only does Halo usually ship with a smaller number of maps, but they then split them so there are maps for BTB. It's just not enough.
There are other things that bother me like flinch and not getting knocked out of zoom when shot, but I think I could live with those if they fixed what I mentioned above.
There are other things that bother me like flinch and not getting knocked out of zoom when shot, but I think I could live with those if they fixed what I mentioned above.
ArchedThunder
Banned
People need to stop saying this. Yes, it sold a lot, but what we don't know is how many people have left Halo after playing Halo 4. Internet posts would say it is a lot, but we won't know until Halo 5 launches.
People complaining about Sprint: I'm pretty sure Bungie's wanted to implement Sprinting since Halo 2.
Halo 4's backlash confuses me more than any other backlash for a game.
I never liked this series since CE, despite trying very hard to. I liked H4 enough, but I felt Halo 2 onward had always deviated drastically from the initial core principles that made CE great - cutting-edge A.I., fun and dynamic physics and most importantly; parred-down, simplistic design. That last element permeated throughout the game in the most positive of ways: from the competitive feel of the multiplayer to the relatively behing-the-scenes narrative. It's so strange to me how that element was touted so loudly by Bungie leading up to its release (especially regarding gameplay - "Two guns and a grenade!") and then Halo 2 became the bloated garbage that it was.
Halo is one of those examples that makes me think it's just impossible for any franchise or studio/firm in modern industry to maintain humility once they find mainstream success.
Halo 4's backlash confuses me more than any other backlash for a game.
I never liked this series since CE, despite trying very hard to. I liked H4 enough, but I felt Halo 2 onward had always deviated drastically from the initial core principles that made CE great - cutting-edge A.I., fun and dynamic physics and most importantly; parred-down, simplistic design. That last element permeated throughout the game in the most positive of ways: from the competitive feel of the multiplayer to the relatively behing-the-scenes narrative. It's so strange to me how that element was touted so loudly by Bungie leading up to its release (especially regarding gameplay - "Two guns and a grenade!") and then Halo 2 became the bloated garbage that it was.
Halo is one of those examples that makes me think it's just impossible for any franchise or studio/firm in modern industry to maintain humility once they find mainstream success.
Regardless of what Bungie wanted the fact is sprinting in Halo didn't exist until Reach. When it appeared, it was unbalanced and caused tons of frustration.
And on Sprint generally, I would love 343 to explain why they couldn't just slightly increase the movement speed.
It may have sold a lot of copies, but it later lost a shitload of fans because of it's online multiplayer, even amongst hardcore Halo fans.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Yes, I know this. I'm one of the people that is done with Halo and I've brought this all up in the thread before. What I'm saying is we have no idea how this will translate into sales. My guess is it will sell a lot less than Halo 4, maybe 4-5 million.
Zeouterlimits
Member
4-5 million on a console that's out less than a year? Sounds pretty good.
Emperor Bohe
Member
Halo needs to drop the abilities and loadouts. Hae everyone fight for their weapons again. No stupid ass unlock progression for weapons, just keep it for armor.
pleeeeeease.
at least make a reach-esque classic playlist
edit: and I really miss Halo 2's non symmetrical maps. they made assault (BRING THIS BACK) and CTF a lot fun. fuck it, just release Halo 2 Anniversary with untouched multiplayer please. glitches and everything.
pleeeeeease.
at least make a reach-esque classic playlist
edit: and I really miss Halo 2's non symmetrical maps. they made assault (BRING THIS BACK) and CTF a lot fun. fuck it, just release Halo 2 Anniversary with untouched multiplayer please. glitches and everything.
ArchedThunder
Banned
For the Halo franchise? Not really. I'm talking life time sales, not first year. And honestly I see it as 4-5 million max, it could very well sell worse.
Unknown One
Member
Sprint needs to die in a fire. It's like the developers want to ruin analog sticks.
Syphon Filter
Member
It sold a tons initially before people found out it was a bad halo game. Now people will be cautious with the next title. Still not even close to selling more than Halo 3. It's not so much the competition and more that they messed up the formula by adding things that don't belong in the franchise. Reach and Halo 4 sold on name and then fans found out it was a terrible game and no one plays it. 100k only in one month after release and then 1 year later its literally on 10k players[ i kid you not]. Even reach 1 year later had 100k+ players playing still. There is a reason they dont stick like Halo 3,they arent good halo games. 10k players is abysmal for a franchise of this caliber,even CS from the 90's has 50k playing. On the top xbl charts you realize its not even top 10 right? And that is only a year later...
Never saw the point of sprint. Maps have to be made bigger to accommodate it, so you're not getting cross the map any quicker. All it does is make engagements more frustrating and the maps annoyingly huge.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Some people are pointing to Halo 4's sales #'s as a sign that the franchise is fine.
I don't totally agree. H4 launched on a mature platform that sitting in 70 million homes. It also saw a series of massive price drops within months that didn't happen with the previous games. Both of those factors serve to inflate the numbers compared to other games in the series.
Halo 5 will definitely have some hurdles to climb being on a new platform with a much smaller user base, and given the sour taste that H4 left in the community's mouth.
I don't totally agree. H4 launched on a mature platform that sitting in 70 million homes. It also saw a series of massive price drops within months that didn't happen with the previous games. Both of those factors serve to inflate the numbers compared to other games in the series.
Halo 5 will definitely have some hurdles to climb being on a new platform with a much smaller user base, and given the sour taste that H4 left in the community's mouth.
People say about COD all the time, yet it sells the vocal people on the internet are not the majority here.
Because the last game was terrible
COD maintains its playerbase through out the year though, Halo4 hasn't.
eXistor
Member
I can only comment on the sp part (I never play mp), but I feel it's been in decline since the first game. Halo 2 was very forgettable, 3 was too narrow, Reach actually was a brief return to form and is my second favorite in the series and 4 was just copying what Bungie already did 4 times before, thus completely redundant.
The series needs a reboot or some very fresh ideas or it will sink further into redundancy. At this point I have zero interest in the series anymore. Then again, I'm not the target audience (I think people only really play Halo for the mp).
The series needs a reboot or some very fresh ideas or it will sink further into redundancy. At this point I have zero interest in the series anymore. Then again, I'm not the target audience (I think people only really play Halo for the mp).
Halo is probably the victim of a world where every sequel needs to have an expanded feature set, new game modes, new weapons, new abilities, etc. Any game series that starts out simple is going to be pretty bloated by the time 2 sequels come out.
The sad thing is that Halo is such an incredibly strong IP that it probably could have sold just as well without all that bloat. Every sequel could have had some weapon rebalancing, some mode tinkering, and a new weapon/vehicle or two and the sales would have been exactly the same. Just put together a cool campaign and give the community a dozen new multiplayer maps and they'd be very cool with it.
I doubt that the armor abilities and sprinting and all that other stuff garnered them that many new customers.
Syphon Filter
Member
COD is on another level,you cant compare them. It actually keeps their players online,even older titles like BO II and MW3.
Regardless of the quality of the games, is Halo going to have issues with the whole transfer from 360 to X1? There must be plenty of people (like me) who owned and loved the Halo series on Xbox & 360, but aren't planning on buying a One. The PS4 vs. X1 numbers speak for themselves. That reduced playerbase, plus the competition from CoD/Battlefield, and Titanfall may be very damaging.
Goodacre0081
Member
Halo hasn't been relevant since 3. IMO
Neuro
Member
I am with you on this one.
Halo Reach, this brought me back to the good old Halo :CE days, there were large environments, one felt as they were actually at war with the Covenant, it was after a long time I saw the raw brutality and tenacity of the invasion, this came alive especially when one turned the skulls on and played on Legendary.
Tip of the Spear is a brilliantly designed mission, it puts you right in the midst of the war with the Covenant swarming down and hunting down humans like a pack of savage dogs, I dont even remember how many times I have gone back to Reach and played this mission over and over again taking a different approach everytime and coming out with a different result
Coming to Halo 4, I have my fair share of issues with the game, to begin with they changed the feel of Halo, they made it more claustrophobic than ever and I personally dont find the Prometheans a formidable foe, yeah sure there were great moments here and there but it wasnt quite the Halo game I was looking for.
What I personally liked about Halo 4 was the visual fidelity, god knows what they did with the engine but every aspect of the game looked visually stunning given the fact it was running on a 7 year old hardware, this is how I had always imagined Halo to look/feel like and Halo 4 finally got it.
The next generation of Halo does excite me quite a but, but I do have fears on how much are they going to be losing out with next generation shooters like Destiny which is meshing the world of Halo with the exploration and fun of Borderlands
343i has an arduous task to balance out the expectations of what they are seeing as next gen yet be true to the Halo franchise because there are a lot of internal stakeholders who would want Halo 5 to mirror its predecessors
In case they do want to stick with the roots of Halo, I would not mind a Metroid Prime like of approach which will give a lot more leeway for the team to expand on the lore of the franchise than box it into a measly 5 hour campaign
Hopefully someone out there is hearing all the grumbling we have with the franchise are looking to make Halo 5 one of the definitive reasons to buy the Xbox One
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