Dozens of highly profitable MMO's coexist right now. World of Warcraft may be the biggest, but Runescape, Aion (in Asia), Guild Wars 2, and heck even Star Wars The Old Republic (a 'failure') rake in hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
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Is Halo dying?
- Thread starter Knocks
- Start date
Dozens of highly profitable MMO's coexist right now. World of Warcraft may be the biggest, but Runescape, Aion (in Asia), Guild Wars 2, and heck even Star Wars The Old Republic (a 'failure') rake in hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
GingerOfEden
Member
Halo needs a change if it's going to continue being made. A simple FPS with a convoluted story and an okay multiplayer won't do it anymore, especially with new, innovative shooters like Titanfall and Destiny.
We know for sure that they're going to be new, but I sense some chickens being counted...
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
But if Blizzard went on to make a new MMO franchise and handed over WoW to an inferior team, it would definitely divide the market.
I know that plenty of MMO's are making a profit, but there's always a big fish.
Ol No Bones
Banned
NO! Halo needs to go back to basics.
I like to think 343 will get it right but they have been getting it wrong since taking over Halo Reach. Bungie at the time looked like they were fixing the issues before handing over the reigns and 343 just destroyed it. DLC playlist management was a joke. That was the point when you shouldn't buy Halo DLC as you'll never get to play it and that continued into Halo 4.
Look at Waypoint versus Bungie.net and after how many years it still sucks.
343 Industries are more like Outsource Industries. There is no central vision, do it cheap, bolt it on, done. Their whole map strategy is that looks nice, okay but does it play well, who cares, look at that feature with a backstory! Wrong priorities.
Look at Waypoint versus Bungie.net and after how many years it still sucks.
343 Industries are more like Outsource Industries. There is no central vision, do it cheap, bolt it on, done. Their whole map strategy is that looks nice, okay but does it play well, who cares, look at that feature with a backstory! Wrong priorities.
quickwhips
Member
Halo is only dying if you consider all other exclusives dead. I mean it sells more than most other exclusives still.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I would say Halo 4's was the worst. The level design was boring and the enemies were dumb as rocks and the Prometheans were actually less fun to fight than the Flood.
Halo 4 sold well, yes, but that game may have damaged sales for any future games.
If they don't change course and return this series to it's simple and refined gameplay roots, then I think the series will continue like Halo 4. I think it will still sell well (unfortunately), but it will become a disposable game. The game people play for a month or two then leave for other games, never to return. They will not stay invested over the lifespan of the game like they used to.
I hope the population that left Reach and H4 finally learned their lesson. I hope they'll view things more critically leading up to H5, and not just trust in the BS from 343 PR mouthpieces when they talk about "classic Halo".
I hope the population that left Reach and H4 finally learned their lesson. I hope they'll view things more critically leading up to H5, and not just trust in the BS from 343 PR mouthpieces when they talk about "classic Halo".
TheOctodad
Member
I think a central problem with the Halo series is that it's caught between nostalgia and the future.
On one hand there are people like me who loved Halo 1/2/3 and really want to see simplified gameplay, smaller weapon choices, no load outs, etc.
Yet the general market has changed and people also seem to want (in general) unlocks, pats on the back for basic things like kills, etc.
And with the next ten there's probably some pressure to make the next Halo game easy to jump into for people who have never played it.
So what do you do? I know what I want, but I'm not sure Halo is able to pull off all of the demands successfully. Other games are coming (Destiny, The Division, TItanfall) that don't carry the baggage of nostalgia and can simply do what they want. Halo is trapped in the tension of comparison and competition.
On one hand there are people like me who loved Halo 1/2/3 and really want to see simplified gameplay, smaller weapon choices, no load outs, etc.
Yet the general market has changed and people also seem to want (in general) unlocks, pats on the back for basic things like kills, etc.
And with the next ten there's probably some pressure to make the next Halo game easy to jump into for people who have never played it.
So what do you do? I know what I want, but I'm not sure Halo is able to pull off all of the demands successfully. Other games are coming (Destiny, The Division, TItanfall) that don't carry the baggage of nostalgia and can simply do what they want. Halo is trapped in the tension of comparison and competition.
You'd actually be surprised at how many people completed the campaigns and put in over 200 games in the multiplayer.
That's kinda ridiculous.
Halo 5 will, and should, have a spot in anyone's Xbox 1s library. It's the main reason people bought it, or considered it over the ps4. Those multiplayer stats aren't telling you the full story. I'm telling you that now.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Not really, look how quickly the population of Halo 4 died. Another thing to note, while sorta anecdotal is that you don't have to look very hard to find lots of people online who are done with Halo now. I used to be a massive Halo fan and bought all the LEs and books and lots of other shit and Halo 4 as well as everything else 343 has done has completely killed all interest I have in the franchise and I know it is this way for a lot of people. I will not be buying Halo 5.
Oh well, Destiny looks rad as shit.
Halo franchise is not more popular or less popular. It is simply not as popular as before. I would personally say it is irrelevant to the FPS genre;If I gathered up one thousand gamers from all over the world to discuss fps games across all platforms, I would highly doubt if anyone mentioned Halo as part of any conversation; it has been surpassed by far too many shooters third person and first person and that is exactly why it is irrelevant now; it has lost its influence or its presence to lead the market, form it or even shape it.
It is not as influential as it was. That is the grim reality of things - repetition leads to less excitement and less excitement leads to being an uninteresting title of the past.
It is not as influential as it was. That is the grim reality of things - repetition leads to less excitement and less excitement leads to being an uninteresting title of the past.
paperspace
Member
Haven't played Halo in a veery long time but I'd be pretty hyped for a re-release of CE, 2, 3 and Reach on Steam!
A new Halo could be interesting I guess, but I'm not buying a Xbox One in the foreseeable future.
A new Halo could be interesting I guess, but I'm not buying a Xbox One in the foreseeable future.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Ghaleon lost interest in Halo.
When Ghaleon stops playing halo you KNOW you dun goofed.
When Ghaleon stops playing halo you KNOW you dun goofed.
NobleGundam
Banned
population? I have never thought of halo players as forum dwellers or internet savvy peeps. I put them in the casual cod, Wii, god of war and socom club. :/
That being said I only see that hate on the net. meh.
TheOctodad
Member
Not crazy at all.
I have about 10 friends who have been gaming since we met on Halo 2. We played Halo 3, Halo Reach and Halo 4 together as well. When Halo 4 came out we gave it a chance for awhile and then just stopped playing. We played Battlefield, went back to Reach, etc.
Guess what happened when the new consoles came out? We all bought PS4s. Why? Well a lot of reasons, but one was that the main game we felt attached to wasn't all that great anymore. And a lot of people have more faith in Bungie.
Bungie talked about increasing player counts before, and it's not so much a technical limitation, so much as a design decision. Halo's gameplay is meant to make you feel like a badass by yourself. Battlefield's gameplay is designed around playing in a squad and being a member of a team. When you add that many players, it lessens the players ability to feel like a badass.
It's been out for a long time - so yes, folks likely are moving on... but that doesn't mean they won't come back for Halo 5 when it returns. Honestly - this whole thread is odd to me. Record setting video game, sells 8 million, now is dead.
There is more competition, sure, but the lore is huge for Halo fans and I am more than certain that 383 will do a wonderful job bringing the world back to life on next-gen hardware.
I'm buying it for sure - and i'm buying titanfall. And probably Destiny. Why not all?
OK, just to clarify, I dont really cared about the Multiplayer. I played some matches, maybe more than in other Shooters, but I was far more interested in the Singleplayer Modus and this one really amazed me. Loved every moment of the story and had a lot of great shot-outs with the Covenant. Afterwards I went directly to my local gameshop and bought every single Halo game and played through them in about three weeks.
In the end, Halo 4, together with Reach and second one was definitly my favourite and had some extremly good improvements, like the story or a more talking Master Chief.
I can understand, if you played Halo mainly for the Multiplayer, than its possible that the franchise is gone worser with 343 hopping in. I cant say anything to this. If you say Halo is dead speaking from its Multiplayer, than its maybe really dead.
Still, Halo 5 will be the reason why I will buy a Xbox One on some point next year. And I am extremly excited for all future games of this franchise.
Warm Machine
Member
In terms of MP population decline I think angry Halo players are really underestimating the power of Call of Duty and how so many people simply default to one of the 6 versions of it that are out instead of 1 of the 3 relevant Halo games that are out.
The question is why people would rather play CoD instead of Halo. Is it the speed, perks, rewards, simplicity, visuals, tone, contemporary setting and weapons?
Killzone has the same problems in that you have a gorgeous sci fi game that has a small online population but decent unit sales.
Titanfall being a MP only bridge game that somewhat straddles the two sensibilities and is MP only and its flagship version is on a new console will be interesting to see.
The question is why people would rather play CoD instead of Halo. Is it the speed, perks, rewards, simplicity, visuals, tone, contemporary setting and weapons?
Killzone has the same problems in that you have a gorgeous sci fi game that has a small online population but decent unit sales.
Titanfall being a MP only bridge game that somewhat straddles the two sensibilities and is MP only and its flagship version is on a new console will be interesting to see.
Same exact thing happened to me and several of my friends. We'd always play H3 or Reach together. H4 came out, played a few weeks, didn't enjoy it and left. Now most of us own a PS3/PS4 or plan on getting a PS4 because we weren't attached to anything in the Xbox brand. I bought my 360 to play H3, after H4, I have no plans on getting an X1 any time soon.
We've done this thread countless times since Halo 4, but I'll throw in my opinion anyway.
For me, Halo isn't dead, but it is half-beaten to death and slowly bleeding out. I'm not going to reiterate on what Halo 4 did wrong in my eyes, but I will say it sets a worrying precedent looking forward through Halo 5 and 6. Entire metagame components were either altered heavily or cut entirely, replaced by lesser mechanics if at all. Halo 4 felt lifeless and unoriginal, completely missing the mark on what many people enjoyed from the first 5 games. Halo was the franchise keeping me tied to the Xbox brand; Halo 4 was so bad that it was the prevailing thing that led to the PS4 being my primary console this generation.
However, I will keep an eye on Halo5 Xbox One's development. While I still feel Halo 4 is a jumbled mess, the multiplayer component has been significantly improved since launch, and while many poor decisions have been made for that mode, other good ones are there too. I'll wait for gaffer impressions rather than the "9.8 amazing" IGN review.
For me, Halo isn't dead, but it is half-beaten to death and slowly bleeding out. I'm not going to reiterate on what Halo 4 did wrong in my eyes, but I will say it sets a worrying precedent looking forward through Halo 5 and 6. Entire metagame components were either altered heavily or cut entirely, replaced by lesser mechanics if at all. Halo 4 felt lifeless and unoriginal, completely missing the mark on what many people enjoyed from the first 5 games. Halo was the franchise keeping me tied to the Xbox brand; Halo 4 was so bad that it was the prevailing thing that led to the PS4 being my primary console this generation.
However, I will keep an eye on Halo
ArchedThunder
Banned
Same, my friends and I are all gaming on PC right now. I own a PS4 and most of my friends plan on getting a PS4 before Destiny comes out and none of us plan on getting an Xbone.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
This is the exact scenario with my friends and family. Even my dad, who played a RIDICULOUS amount of Halo 2/3/Reach, dismissed 4 almost immediately and has no interest in the Xbone or Halo 5. It's actually really depressing to me.
Agree its not as influential because the first game redefined the console FPS and so many games including its sequels basically copy it's formula/gameplay systems.
However you're completely wrong if you think most people would not mention Halo when discussing game systems. It still is probably the biggest non Nintendo exclusive franchise.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'd say it's lost steam. 343 is no Bungie.
CthulhuPL
Member
I bit off topic but for me there were 3 genre-defining FPS games on consoles: Halo 1, Half Life 2, Crysis 1. Unfortunately, after Crysis 1 there is no FPS game worth naming as genre-defining. Destiny? With all respect to Bungie, I don't think so. Although I would like to be wrong on this, because FPS genre need some kick in the butt.
You really consider the console port of Crysis 1 as genre-defining on a console?
I am ok with your opinion, but I just wanted to ask, if I didnt geht you wrong or something.
MightyHedgehog
Member
It definitely is hurting, but until Halo 5 bombs, I don't see how anyone could say it was dying even if their own interest in it has waned or evaporated. Halo 4 and the intervening years between it and Halo 3 with several Halo somethings releasing felt on the edge of total 'whore out' mode, though. I generally dislike the whole transmedia mindset because it usually ends up affecting the mainline product negatively, either by skewing its forward direction into a narrative-heavy one or by simply believing it is somehow immune to simple oversaturation. Halo is best when sandbox and player tactics are front and center and everything else, including plot and characters, is secondary. 343i, stop filling people's heads with an abundance of lore and bullshit that only interested fans should want and be able to seek out with the Halo novels and supporting merchandise...many of us love Halo despite the 'epic saga' constantly creeping into the player experience, force-feeding us extraneous and hokey detail by hijacking our ability to sense the non-gameplay side of the franchise simply by experiencing the game ourselves. IMO, action games work best when you're not constantly disconnected from the game progression with someone's need to be movie maker. Halo 5 needs to come from the place Halo 1 did than from any other installment. If they fuck it up with the new one and continue down the lame-ass path Halo 4 started in, I'm probably done with the series.
CthulhuPL
Member
I had PC version in mind but it doesn't matter. Console port was very ok to me. Gameplay was the same.
Syphon Filter
Member
Destiny is nothing like Halo, Bungie left to stop making Halo.
Latvian Hitman
Member
I think there's still a place for Halo near the top. They just need to stop chasing bad design choices down the rabbit hole.
400,000 people were in competitive playlists at peak times during launch week of Halo 4. They were ready. They had been sold on what they had seen in previews and in the Vidocs. They were ready for a great Halo game. They didn't get one. They left once they figured that out.
Several people in this thread have said that Halo's fate was written on the wall when COD 4 launched. That's an uninformed point of view, IMO. Halo 3 was still competing for the #1 spot on XBL two and three years after its launch when it was going head to head with three COD games. COD isn't what put the Halo franchise in this position. Two poor efforts in a row is what put the Halo franchise in this position.
They can turn it around. They know what they need to do. The only question is: is 343i willing to do it?
400,000 people were in competitive playlists at peak times during launch week of Halo 4. They were ready. They had been sold on what they had seen in previews and in the Vidocs. They were ready for a great Halo game. They didn't get one. They left once they figured that out.
Several people in this thread have said that Halo's fate was written on the wall when COD 4 launched. That's an uninformed point of view, IMO. Halo 3 was still competing for the #1 spot on XBL two and three years after its launch when it was going head to head with three COD games. COD isn't what put the Halo franchise in this position. Two poor efforts in a row is what put the Halo franchise in this position.
They can turn it around. They know what they need to do. The only question is: is 343i willing to do it?
SpartanN92
Banned
Ughhhh
One poorly received entry in a franchise and all is doom and gloom.
If we gave up entire series due to one lack luster entry then we'd probably have no series left!
Just wait for Halo 5... Make decisions then.
One poorly received entry in a franchise and all is doom and gloom.
If we gave up entire series due to one lack luster entry then we'd probably have no series left!
Just wait for Halo 5... Make decisions then.
Solid Samus
Banned
Halo and Xbox/Xbox 360 helped to define one another and I, as a fan, honestly and truly think that the series has run its course - and the Xbox's branding and presence has outgrown the need for Halo anyway. Microsoft should invest heavily this generation in new, console-defining IPs that aren't necessarily super-familiar shooter games
I'd say let it die but it's a hell of a moneymaker and who else is gonna cobble put out a decent FPS arena shooter on console? nobody i tells ya
I'd say let it die but it's a hell of a moneymaker and who else is gonna cobble put out a decent FPS arena shooter on console? nobody i tells ya
The first two titles raised the bar. Especially the first, truth be told. I still have fond memories of it. The landscape was beautiful and the story line was more than life, it gave you that feeling that it was up to you to save mankind.
I would like to say that Halo franchise in its current state reminds of me CS - where this franchise was good at its time, it offered everything it could offer and now it is time to let it die and move on. The fundamental issue with Halo and other fps franchises is the story; if you have nothing more to say or add or most importantly impress you will not be relevant anymore - Games like these made an name because of their story, their main character connected with a larger audience in a very deep and fundamental level.
MGS runs the same issue as a shooter - FPS genre needs to embrace the RPG concept more if it wants to survive so we shall see how Destiny plays out. FPS right now can't maintain a good face value to the gaming culture just be reproducing titles of killing X enemies over and over again ignoring completely the depth and immersion, ignoring the fact that they must evolve and not be stable and repetitive.
Who would care if Halo 5 comes when Destiny is already out? A number of gamers will but if it does not tick the next-gen demands which are specific and straight forward, they will just move along.
Anyway, that is my view.
Eh, it's no longer THE shooter anymore. Xbox needed Halo, but 360 sure as hell didn't when you look at the numbers CoD put on it. Don't see why the trend will change for the X1.
The games will still sell a lot (millions), but it reminds me of Final Fantasy. Probably will never return to its former glory.
The games will still sell a lot (millions), but it reminds me of Final Fantasy. Probably will never return to its former glory.
BlazeBreak
Member
Exactly that. Halo 4 isn't "terrible", I'd maybe even call it the most polished shooter on the market. But me and my friends all virtually stopped playing after a couple weeks. A lot of my friends have mixed opinions about Reach, I can bitch about plenty too, yet we still wound up putting hundreds of hours into it and kept playing it much, much longer than we did 4.
I don't think Halo 5's gonna bomb, but I definitely don't think it's going to sell as well as 4 did. It's going to release on a console with a much smaller userbase than the 360 had when H4 released. And Halo isn't a system seller anymore. At least for nearly as many people. After Halo 4, and with people who were pushed toward PS4 and/or PC following the Xbone debacle, I think there are now a lot less people who'll go buy an XBO just for Halo. Certainly much fewer than the amount of people who bought a 360 just for Halo 3.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Halo died in the sense that it's no longer the most popular shooter on consoles. Call of Duty has it beat there as once a new COD came out the Halo community would basically shrink to a fraction of what it used to be.
But it's not dead in the sense of sales as it still is the go-to exclusive for Microsoft. And it still sells like hot cakes. Many die hard fans of the Bungie titles, including myself, lost interest once Bungie left. I really did try to care for Halo 4, I just couldn't. If Halo 5 doesn't break the mold somehow it might have more people saying that it's boring and outdated now.
But it's not dead in the sense of sales as it still is the go-to exclusive for Microsoft. And it still sells like hot cakes. Many die hard fans of the Bungie titles, including myself, lost interest once Bungie left. I really did try to care for Halo 4, I just couldn't. If Halo 5 doesn't break the mold somehow it might have more people saying that it's boring and outdated now.
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