We all know Knuckles is a black man
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Is Knuckles the Echidna's feminist statement accurate?
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The people who probably would have cared were probably exposed to what they've done with Sonic online and realized this wasn't a character worth defending the public image of anymore. Alternatively, the only way to fight back was allowing this sort of thing to run wild.
It's kind of like a softer, less extreme version of what happened with Conker when you think about it, actually.
evilromero
Member
I know it's the original name but I still like Robotnik better. Eggman will forever sound inferior to me.
Professor Beef
Banned
Phrozenflame500
Member
i like how they just completely gave up and handed the sonic franchise over to the ironic memers
I have many times admitted to my hypocrisy. I am not without fault.
I don't trust Sonic Stans
Sorry
You good peoples tho
At this point nothing could sink the franchise's reputation any lower so this is probably the best outcome.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Beef, say this knowing that I hold many less than acceptable opinions myself, but you are one of the last people who should be criticizing anyone for their taste, only topped by Slayven and Cipher "I find hiccups to be an enjoyable experience" Peon.
See, at first I thought the image in the OP was probably fake, then I saw the clip.
Then I thought this one HAD to be faked... then found the clip.
What the fuck are you doing Sonic Boom? THEY KNOW
rackham
Banned
This is a serious question, but what do you expect from an IP where the plot involved an anthropomorphic hedgehog fighting an evil scientist who is shaped like and named after eggs. A plot where this hedgehog also happens to be romantically involved with a human princess at one point.
SEGA made Sonic an ironic meme, no one else.
Psychoward
Banned
The quote in the OP is dumb as hell and does more harm than good even if it comes from a good place, that being said the sheer context of the situation and the rest of the screencaps in this thread more than make up for it.
that's okay
you're among friends here, you can let your inner Sonic fanboy out
link please
Galactic Specter
Member
Does this "Knuckles is a feminist" joke going viral mean that more people will watch Sonic Boom now?
Professor Beef
Banned
Do I know you?
LordKasual
Banned
this is actually funny
Vermillion
Banned
I mean, many people are saying this is mansplaining.
Uno Venova
Banned
am i going to start watching sonic fucking boom
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
Is it mansplaining if a woman wrote it?
StrangeRoboMemory
Member
Just one step in Sonic's woke history:
Glass Rebel
Member
Against my better judgement I will try to unpack this...
I think this is a case where writing and humour got in the way of conveying a deeper message. Not implying that women can't have misconceptions about feminism but there seems to be a genuine attempt here, hampered by the fact that it had to be written within the framework of Sonic Boom.
The first half of Knuckles' statement about the "undermining of the concept of gender equality" has some merit. Explicitly calling attention to breaking of gender roles in media is an acknowledgment of said (forced) gender roles and to a certain degree removes women's autonomy by implying that most simply adhere to them. Certainly, one can also make the argument that any pointing out of women "breaking the mold" is a celebration of women's autonomy within a patriarchal system and their ability to break free from it. I think both stances are valid.
The second part of his statement, however, goes too far in the sense that it tries to explain what I did above but has to do so in a succinct way. Dialogue in TV shows has to be snappy, otherwise you end up with stuff like True Detective Season 2. This goes especially for shows directed at kids. The way Knuckles' statement is phrased, it sounds as if he is denying the existence of gender inequality whereas it seems obvious that Knuckles is bemoaning the "status quo". In other words, Knuckles isn't talking about how things are but how they should be. He is for gender equality.
The message is further muddied by what Amy says before:
As I explained earlier, Knuckles is advocating for the autonomy of women. However, Amy, in evoking the metaphor of the "glass ceiling", an image that was coined by and gained traction within feminist circles, is talking about external limiting factors. Essentially, Knuckles and Amy are talking about two very different things here, which is where the problematic nature of Knuckles' statement stems from.
On the matter of mansplaining: It is true that Sticks the Badger could have delivered this speech. She is visible here on the left and clearly part of the conversation:
And this is another instance where the framework of Sonic Boom got into the way of the message the writer tried to convey. In this scene, the humour arising from the fact that it is Knuckles delivering this little speech, is intended to be the vehicle for the writer's message. What the writer is trying to say is that even a self-professed "meathead" like Knuckles can be a feminist but by doing so she inevitably puts him into a non-feminist position i.e. making him "mansplain" gender equality to Amy. Through this constellation of characters and the choice of humour as vehicle, the writer has essentially written herself into a corner. It certainly does not help that his explanation is flawed but I am willing to give the writer the benefit of the doubt here.
One has to also consider the nature of the show here. Sonic Boom does frequently break the fourth wall and feature self-deprecating humour. I am an advocate of the death of the author but Knuckles' comment can be seen as a meta-commentary on the cliched "You Go, Girl!" trope, essentially making him the writer's mouthpiece.
So to conclude, this was not a very effective way to introduce feminism and gender equality to children but I think the writer had the best intentions. I think it's important that TV shows for children try to tackle heavier subject matters like this but they also have to be very careful about it. The mere intention of conveying a positive message does not absolve one from potential missteps.
Now excuse me while I go to bed and think about why I am analyzing Sonic fucking Boom in the year of our lord 2017.
I think this is a case where writing and humour got in the way of conveying a deeper message. Not implying that women can't have misconceptions about feminism but there seems to be a genuine attempt here, hampered by the fact that it had to be written within the framework of Sonic Boom.
The first half of Knuckles' statement about the "undermining of the concept of gender equality" has some merit. Explicitly calling attention to breaking of gender roles in media is an acknowledgment of said (forced) gender roles and to a certain degree removes women's autonomy by implying that most simply adhere to them. Certainly, one can also make the argument that any pointing out of women "breaking the mold" is a celebration of women's autonomy within a patriarchal system and their ability to break free from it. I think both stances are valid.
The second part of his statement, however, goes too far in the sense that it tries to explain what I did above but has to do so in a succinct way. Dialogue in TV shows has to be snappy, otherwise you end up with stuff like True Detective Season 2. This goes especially for shows directed at kids. The way Knuckles' statement is phrased, it sounds as if he is denying the existence of gender inequality whereas it seems obvious that Knuckles is bemoaning the "status quo". In other words, Knuckles isn't talking about how things are but how they should be. He is for gender equality.
The message is further muddied by what Amy says before:
As I explained earlier, Knuckles is advocating for the autonomy of women. However, Amy, in evoking the metaphor of the "glass ceiling", an image that was coined by and gained traction within feminist circles, is talking about external limiting factors. Essentially, Knuckles and Amy are talking about two very different things here, which is where the problematic nature of Knuckles' statement stems from.
On the matter of mansplaining: It is true that Sticks the Badger could have delivered this speech. She is visible here on the left and clearly part of the conversation:
And this is another instance where the framework of Sonic Boom got into the way of the message the writer tried to convey. In this scene, the humour arising from the fact that it is Knuckles delivering this little speech, is intended to be the vehicle for the writer's message. What the writer is trying to say is that even a self-professed "meathead" like Knuckles can be a feminist but by doing so she inevitably puts him into a non-feminist position i.e. making him "mansplain" gender equality to Amy. Through this constellation of characters and the choice of humour as vehicle, the writer has essentially written herself into a corner. It certainly does not help that his explanation is flawed but I am willing to give the writer the benefit of the doubt here.
One has to also consider the nature of the show here. Sonic Boom does frequently break the fourth wall and feature self-deprecating humour. I am an advocate of the death of the author but Knuckles' comment can be seen as a meta-commentary on the cliched "You Go, Girl!" trope, essentially making him the writer's mouthpiece.
So to conclude, this was not a very effective way to introduce feminism and gender equality to children but I think the writer had the best intentions. I think it's important that TV shows for children try to tackle heavier subject matters like this but they also have to be very careful about it. The mere intention of conveying a positive message does not absolve one from potential missteps.
Now excuse me while I go to bed and think about why I am analyzing Sonic fucking Boom in the year of our lord 2017.
Mr. Smiley
Member
i commend you glass rebel
SubjectNineteen
Neo Member
Absolutely! I couldn't say it any more eloquently or succinctly, though I was trying. Words failed. Neshcom's post voices my thoughts on Knuckles' words perfectly.
Like, I get what Knuckles is trying to say. (Am I really discussing feminism in the context of the freaking Sonic universe!?) And, as Neshcom said, he's sort of right -- but only in a truly equal world.
The problem I have is that by not taking the opportunity to bring attention to or outright extol the accomplishments (and challenges) of classically underrepresented populations, like people of color and women, for example, is that there is a strong likelihood that no one will bring them up. As such, they may continue to go unnoticed by the general population, and thus remain an exception to the rule, rather than becoming the status quo, as Knuckles alleges they are. And in our world, they're clearly not.
So, I see Knuckles as basically meaning well, but essentially, albeit unintentionally, advocating the continued silence of those that would draw attention to the challenges and successes of underrepresented populations, because if no one mentions them, then how will they be brought into the public's consciousness? And if the public continues to be unaware of those things, then how will gender equality/racial equality/etc. become status quo? Most change doesn't happen in silence.
and keep the typo
It's a reference to the movie Dodgeball. Felt right to write it like that given that we are talking about something completely non intellectual like Sonic.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Professor Beef
Banned
this thread is a treasure
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah maybe but it's kinda just left there amd he's the only one who invoke ls the word
It's a bad joke if it is because as far as I can see no one corrects him.
SubjectNineteen
Neo Member
It's a reference to the movie Dodgeball. Felt right to write it like that given that we are talking about something completely non intellectual like Sonic.
Oh, that's a double win! Dodgeball was admittedly a bit of a guilty pleasure film of mine when it came out. "Dodge, dive, dip, duck, and dodge!"
excelsiorlef
Member
But there isn't.
Even as a joke it's left uncorrected.
So it's introducing an idea to kids that acknowledging inequality and women's achievements undermines the fight for equality. It's a bad message
excelsiorlef
Member
What?
She's not accepting stereotypes as fact. She's aim to shatter them. She's acknowledging the stereotype exists in popular culture and society.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
BreezyLimbo
Banned
maybe in the sonic boom society they are truly equal?
excelsiorlef
Member
But it's not technically true.
Nothing he said makes any sense as a feminist statement
But that's nonsense because men and women are not treated equally in society, you can't pretend that it is and thus say nothing about inequality.
Then Amy wouldn't be even talking about breaking the glass ceiling and Knuckles wouldn't mention the fight for equality
But then what's the point of Amy going on about breaking stereotypes?
Professor Beef
Banned
It's true, I did. It would've been a hell of a lot better without a million camera cuts, but I liked it for what it was and I still had a better time with it than I did with Final Fantasy 4.
Dude Abides
Banned
Comes off a bit like "people who talk about racism are the real racists."
Kind of glad that Sonic Boom is its own thing at this point completely separate from the games themselves so you can get weird and sometimes poorly delivered jokes like this one, and hilarious ones that poke fun at context surrounding the fandom surrounding the franchise as its own. As for what was attempted...probably not enough time to do it right for an 12 minute episode.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Is it wrong that I laughed?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
And yet, everyone on Twitter and YouTube is up and in arms about this being an attack on male society.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ugh this show should just not try.
Amy is right but the guy is clearly supposed to be the strawfeminist
BreezyLimbo
Banned
that's why Knuckles went into his speech
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